National Socialism And The White Nationalist Movement

[billwhite]

http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=8680

National Socialism
And The State Of The White Nationalist Movement

Bill White

What I am stating here today, insofar as it is critical of certain white organizations and leaders, is not NSM policy, but an expression of my opinion and evaluation of the current state of white nationalist struggle in the United States.

I have said that there is no white racial struggle without national socialism, and that that position is reflective of the general position of the National Socialist Movement. Our critics have responded with the question "what about unity"? My response is that "unity" does not mean other National Socialist Movement being restricted by the position of another organization, with a different world view or tactics.

When it is said that there is no white nationalism without national socialism, that is exactly what is meant. It is impossible to struggle for the interests of the white race without inevitably coming to the national socialist worldview.

There are a number of reasons white activists do not call themselves national socialists when, in fact, they are contributing to such a struggle. These divide into three types:

One is the activist who is struggling for the white race but does not have a fully developed ideology. These activists are proto-national-socialists. They are national socialists that do not have a full enough political development to identify themselves as such. With this type of activist, the National Socialist Movement urges unity.

The second is the activist who is a national socialist but who is convinced that national socialism cannot win, and thus disguises their national socialism as something else. These are the activists who attack the National Socialist Movement's approach as "too bold", as "dated", as "having no appeal". These are activists who wish they could achieve national socialism but, lacking the will and the confidence necessary to struggle for it, are content to struggle for something else -- something approved, or which they believe could be approved, by the current Jewish system of exploitation and oppression. While these activists are always welcome to attend National Socialist Movement events and consider a conversion, there is little room for "unity" between us -- because their fear of their own selves causes them to reject us as a living negation of their approach.

The third type of activist is the activist convinced of some other doctrine, but also convinced, separately, of racial theories which contradict it. Constitutionalists, libertarians and the "Patriot Movement" fall into this category. The US Constitution, the ideology of libertarianism, and the "Patriotism" of the "Patriot Movement", all rest on a belief system that holds at its heart the fundamental equality of man, or that a system should exist that makes pretense of such equality. Sometimes these men argue that in a "true" system of equality, natural differentiation will occur anyways, since given an equal playing field, the inequality of man will create and perpetuate economic and social inequalities. But they ignore the paradox that, if an equal playing field creates and perpetuates inequality, why should the equal playing field be created in the first place, as oppose to a playing field that separates men along the divisions men inevitably fall into?

We stress unity with this last type because we know that they will eventually go one of two ways -- they will either persist in their delusions about "equality", and thus will go "anti-racist", or they will abandon their egalitarian and Masonic notions and become National Socialists.

In the white nationalist "scene", there are three centers of leadership right now. There is the group around National Vanguard, Stormfront and David Duke, the group around Vanguard News Network and Alex Linder, and there is the National Socialist Movement and its broad coalition.

National Vanguard and Stormfront, and their leaders, Kevin Strom, Don Black and David Duke, are national socialists who believe very strongly that national socialism cannot win, and that there must be a bourgeois-conservative revolution as a precondition for a National Socialist victory. Their position is similar to that, on the left of a century ago, of the reformist communists of the German parliament and the Mensheviks of the Russian. They believe that a "Far Right" conservative government along Constitutionalist - Patriotic lines, that embraces some racial realities but is not willing to take on the issue of the Jew is necessary before a national socialist revolution, and that the ultimate goal of national socialist revolution must be concealed from everyone -- including many of their own supporters -- until the preconditions have been met.

What such men inevitably find, even when successful, is that they end up becoming the "extreme" opposition to a "moderate" government that comes to power popularly but that is so threatened that it might lose power by a "swing" "further right" that is turns on them with more opposition than their actual opponents. Witness the behavior of Chirac towards the "hard liner" Sarkozy in the French government -- or the behavior of any "conservative" party in Europe towards any "nationalist" party.

In life you only get what you ask for. If you ask for a "far right" conservative government that embraces the principles of the Constitution and had some mild understanding of racial reality, you will get that -- and it will, over time, turn into exactly what the last government in the US of that nature turned into -- a neo-conservative state dominated and exploited by Jews and ex-communists.

If you are going to turn back time, you might as well go back to the beginning. If you're going to fight the uphill battle for a revolution, you might as well fight for what you want, instead of what you think might be mildly easier to achieve.

The National Socialist Movement rejects those "white nationalist" groups that believe that "racial conservatism" is an effective front for infiltrating the mainstream culture, and we reject the approach that calls for a national socialist revolution in two stages, and the concealment of the aims of the national socialist organization from its own supporters and members.

Thus, the call recently made by David Duke for the National Socialist Movement to abandon its uniforms and to advocate a mainstream or conservative view during the rally in Kingston, New York, is absolutely rejected. The approach taken by Duke and his supporters is, in our view, counter productive, and, in my view, those individuals who advocate it, and who attempt to interfere in the activities of other activists and force it upon others, are baggage that should be cut loose from and considered as something separate from the white liberation struggle.

Vanguard News Network, however, more represents the blank slate -- the organization without any developed political ideology -- and this is primarily because of the inadequacies of its leadership. In fact, in my personal opinion, Vanguard News Network is defined by the inadequacies of its leadership. Its consistent attacks on the National Socialist Movement, in my view, represent the fear its leaders have of a movement that is more dynamic than their own, that threatens to overwhelm them simply by filling their ideological void, and that offers them no potential for advancement, as their leadership consists to a disturbing degree of individuals who have been expelled from other organizations and are not welcome back.

VNN would do well to develop and advocate for a coherent world view more sophisticated than "simple" white racialism. One can refer all questions to the interests of the race, but one cannot answer all questions by the race alone. What is a proper housing policy for a white government? What is a proper penal policy? Some questions have obvious answers -- black crime against whites must be addressed, for instance -- but how should it be addressed? And how should white crime in a white society be addressed? It is by answering the more sophisticated questions that a real national socialism develops.

So the National Socialist Movement stands apart from the other trends in white nationalism in that it is not willing to pursue a reformist path and it is not willing to accept the leadership of those who do not have a fully developed and coherent social, political and economic worldview. The National Socialist Movement represents the highest degree the white liberation struggle has achieved in the United States, and, as such, its organization and its tactics represent the only option for white nationalism and white people.

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

VNN is not a group Bill. You still dont get it. VNN is a communications medium. VNN is an instrumentality. VNN is a beginning not an end in itself. That is what groups are and always become.

VNN has more in common with Metzger's "WAR" concept than any of these other outfits Bill mentions in his essay in that we are a loose association of people using a central communications hub. Bill uses VNN, National Vanguard uses VNN, the NSMers and the SFers use VNN. The anti-Millerites and Order Cultists use VNN. The people who call VNN a "black flag jew-op" use VNN to say so.

VNN compared to NSM and National Vanguard-- apples to oranges. VNN to SF, or VNN to resist.com-- much better analogies.

It's not a popularity contest Bill. And the analogy to Russia is flawed as well. You're looking at the Bolshevik revolution in terms of ideology instead of understanding it as a subversive event contrived by powerful Jews to defang and dismantle and loot the Russian Empire. As a National Socialist, you should stop looking at the Russian Revolution like a Marxist, and look at it like a Nazi, because the Nazis understood it for what it was whereas you sound like a college student writing a term paper.

[billwhite]

VNN is not a group Bill. You still dont get it.

VNN is a group. It may not be a formal organization, but it does exist as an identifiable political entity.

The fact that its "leadership" doesn't see it as a group is evidence of the political immaturity (underdevelopment, early stage in the cycle of maturity, etc, not meant as an insult) of the organization.

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

.... the fact that its "leadership" doesn't see it as a group is evidence of the political immaturity (underdevelopment, early stage in the cycle of maturity, etc, not meant as an insult) of the organization.

OK, well, we're better off if you see it that way anyhow.

[TulsaMan]

When it is said that there is no white nationalism without national socialism, that is exactly what is meant. It is impossible to struggle for the interests of the white race without inevitably coming to the national socialist worldview.This sounds just like the Christians on Stormfront that say Whites cannot reclaim their country without "returning to our Chrisitian heritage".

[Cthulhu]

Hitler said that to win sometimes required a hysterical fanatism. You, Mr. White, however have declared such to be white trash, and thought it a good idea if these people race mixed to destroy their white lineage.

When Hitler, with Genghis Kahn, God and the crack legions of the SS who where called to Valhalla, return to fight the Jews and their lackeys, as you suppose will occur, don't you fear that you will be on their hit list for promoting race-mixing as a way of destroying the very elements Hitler said were essential for victory?

You are a nut-bar White. I have never heard or read a National Socialist ever saying race-mixing served a good purpose. I have read you saying such, but never a National Socialist.

[billwhite]

This sounds just like the Christians on Stormfront that say Whites cannot reclaim their country without "returning to our Chrisitian heritage".

Its like that. And, in fact, for what they mean, they are right. We cannot restore a Masonic-Puritan-style Constitutional Republic without a return to the Christianity and Masonry of the 18th century.

Its just that its not in the interest of the white race to merely return to an earlier stage of decadence. What is needed is to clean house. National Socialism is cleaning house.

[Hadding]

VNN would do well to develop and advocate for a coherent world view more sophisticated than "simple" white racialism. One can refer all questions to the interests of the race, but one cannot answer all questions by the race alone. What is a proper housing policy for a white government? What is a proper penal policy?
White people do need a reform of their worldview to a post-Enlightenment outlook, instead of continuing to oscillate hypocritically between the Enlightenment and reality. They need to stop believing that only individuals count and that races don't. They need to accept that conflict among races is a given and embrace the idea of fighting for their own race.

What I don't think is really useful at this point is a highly detailed platform that addresses every issue of government. It's a bit like specifying what color drapes and what kind of carpet you will have in your Beverly Hills mansion after you win the lottery.

It's not really the right time for getting into details, when so much still has to be done to achieve a basic reorientation of worldview. Once the right worldview and values have been embraced, the details will follow as necessity arises.

[billwhite]

What I don't think is really useful at this point is a highly detailed platform that addresses every issue of government. It's a bit like specifying what color drapes and what kind of carpet you will have in your Beverly Hills mansion after you win the lottery.

The particulars of the platform need to be tailored to the particulars of the ascent to power.

However, having a deeper philosophy than just "be white" is necessary. "Be white" is where it starts, but the question of "what does it mean to be white" is begged by it.

[Hadding]

The particulars of the platform need to be tailored to the particulars of the ascent to power.

However, having a deeper philosophy than just "be white" is necessary. "Be white" is where it starts, but the question of "what does it mean to be white" is begged by it.
Yes but I think that this should be delivered in the form of criticism of what is going on now. That way it will be connected to current reality and it won't come across as pie in the sky. Once we get some White people to accept that racial solidarity is not evil then we can move on to something a little less basic.

[Alex Linder]

http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=8680
So the National Socialist Movement stands apart from the other trends in white nationalism in that it is not willing to pursue a reformist path and it is not willing to accept the leadership of those who do not have a fully developed and coherent social, political and economic worldview. The National Socialist Movement represents the highest degree the white liberation struggle has achieved in the United States, and, as such, its organization and its tactics represent the only option for white nationalism and white people.

There's too much inaccurate characterization here to discuss fully, but VNN's basic view is racial dictatorship now, power devolution later. We have always taken the hardest possible line on the jews. When jews and coloreds do not exist in our nation, there can be no recurrence of judeo-neocon-liberal insanity.

Ideally, a White U.S. would function like Switzerland. Extremely heavily armed individuals, living in their various communities as they see fit, but with an unbreakable common commitment that the state, the federal government, exists to defend the race that created it. As long as government carries out its one duty, defending the race, the vast majority of the rest of the decisions are better left to local Whites to decide. I don't want Bill White making housing decisions out of Washington any more than I want Kevin Strom making marriage decisions.

I doubt most costume nazis have more than a superficial understanding of NS philosophy, and indeed the truth about NS Germany is difficult to determine even for intelligent and motivated people, but it is clear that NS Germany involved a degree of bureaucratic intrusiveness unacceptable to Aryans. I continue to believe there is nothing essentially wrong with White people. They are not suicidal, and while their reproduction levels are lower than historically, in themselves they are not the problem. The problem, as we have always said, is that a race of hostile aliens controls our government and communications networks.

[Greundigval]

I know a few NSM's, and they are quite intellectual. The notorious Professor Pluss gave speeches which were pedantic and extremely boring to people who do not have enough brains, so the "skin heads" of the NSM were not complete idiots, since they read and listened to him.

I think we need to accept the NSM, and with good reason: By wearing the swastika, they are creating a better place for us. Why? Because by comparison, we who march without the swastika are seen as conservatives and a welcome relief.

There's too much inaccurate characterization here to discuss fully, but VNN's basic view is racial dictatorship now, power devolution later. We have always taken the hardest possible line on the jews. When jews and coloreds do not exist in our nation, there can be no recurrence of judeo-neocon-liberal insanity.

Ideally, a White U.S. would function like Switzerland. Extremely heavily armed individuals, living in their various communities as they see fit, but with an unbreakable common commitment that the state, the federal government, exists to defend the race that created it. As long as government carries out its one duty, defending the race, the vast majority of the rest of the decisions are better left to local Whites to decide. I don't want Bill White making housing decisions out of Washington any more than I want Kevin Strom deciding who is allowed to marry whom.

I doubt most costume nazis have more than a superficial understanding of NS philosophy, and indeed the truth about NS Germany is difficult to determine even for intelligent and motivated people, but it is clear that NS Germany involved a degree of bureaucratic intrusiveness unacceptable to Aryans. I continue to believe there is nothing essentially wrong with White people. They are not suicidal, and while their reproduction levels are lower than historically, in themselves they are not the problem. The problem, as we have always said, is that a race of hostile aliens controls our government and communications networks.

[Alex Linder]

I know a few NSM's, and they are quite intellectual. The notorious Professor Pluss gave speeches which were pedantic and extremely boring to people who do not have enough brains, so the "skin heads" of the NSM were not complete idiots, since they read and listened to him.

I think we need to accept the NSM, and with good reason: By wearing the swastika, they are creating a better place for us. Why? Because by comparison, we who march without the swastika are seen as conservatives and a welcome relief.

Pluss was an infiltrator, and so he can't be taken as an example of the group's intellectual level. The fact that Pluss, like Bill White, immediately rose to the top of the NSM is the true indication of the general level of the group. I guess I could also point to self-appointed Commander Schoep's semi-literacy, but then I will be accused of attacking the group rather than making an objectively valid point.

The U.S. is not Germany. We Aryan Americans are not Germans. What works for them will not necessarily work for us, either strategically or tactically. As real German nationalists said, nazism is not for export. There's a chance they're right. They also said that America is not a people, but a type. I think that is correct.

My reading of what will work in America is a racial dictatorship, first, and extensive personal freedom, second. Without a dictatorship powerful enough to depose the jews, none of the good things us WN and conservatives and, hell, just plain normal white people want is possible, so let's not pretend otherwise. The enemy holds all the high positions, and even if we were to disguise our aims, they would sniff them out and denounce us just the same.

We should always refer to our opponents as extremists, since they've preloaded the term, and since it accurately reflects the insanity of multiculturalism. We advocate policies that reduce friction between groups, and thereby crime. On the positive side, our policy promotes harmony within and between groups, and makes life better for all. So, ours is the normal, mainstream position, both in theory and reality, as we see that even the most indoctrinated people in the history of the world -- American Whites -- act like "evil" racists when it comes to the most basic decision: whom to live among. They choose white areas, from me and you all the way left to Bill and Hillary Clinton.

The task of the day is building up media organs and organizing Whites. VNN has done as good a job at this as anybody. Media are just a start. They alone are not enough. Men of, yes, fanatical will must organize locally to do what needs to be done. The Internet allows global coordination in that regard. It is too easy to decapitate an organization, and so faith in one great leader is misplaced. It comes down to how strong the taste for living free from jewish tyranny really is in the breast of the good men who in combination could tear apart the Jewish Hate Machine.

[Cthulhu]

Fair enough. But what about the weak points that allowed the Jew entry. For example abuse of the working man by the capitalist? How about organization of education? Because the USA is a big country most decisions can be devolved down to state and county level, but then there is the inherent risk of outside interference to create fractures between the states, so some form of firm control would be needed to keep that in line.

Defending the people against exploitation is a social aspect; national unity as a racial or biological nationalism is somehow going to have to be instilled. You can't just say let us turn back the clock as Bill White maintains. You have to face the future and societal development. People expect more, like health care. So whether you provide it as remuneration for service, say in a local militia, sort of like Switzerland or in some other form, group social responsibility is here to stay, unless you want to create an underclass who see no benefit at all. Don't have to call it socialisim if you don't want to. The combination of 1) an instilled national pride and unity (while maintaining regional diversity) and 2) care and maintanence for the people to protect them from exploitation, doesn't have to be called National Socialism, but that is what it amounts to.

I believe Mussolini said fascism wasn't for export.

"And in all eternity nothing will change," he proceeded, "so far as the attitude of the Jews toward our kings and our leaders is concerned. To destroy them is their eternal sin, and when they can't accomplish this by force, then they will use cunning. Whenever we have a strong leadership, the Jews are obliged to keep their noses clean. Our leadership can be truly strong, however, only if it is based completely in our people; only if it concerns itself with the welfare of the least among them just as much as with that of the wealthiest of them; only if, in the firm conviction of its own worth, it bars every alien influence from the beginning; only if it is not merely national, but is also social, down to its very bones. No matter what others may say, I assert this: a time will come when all the elite nations of the world will have such a leadership; and then everyone will be astonished to see that, instead of grating on one another as has previously been the case, they will treat one another with respect and consideration. For then there will be no more whipping up of land greed, of an itching for power, of suspicion—sentiments which exist in unmixed form only in the isolated few, and not in the more trusting general populace, anyhow. There will be an end to the lying praise of an indiscriminate human brotherhood, which would be possible, if at all, only under the supposition that one had from the first excluded that eternal mischief-maker, the Jew. But had this been done, there would be no need to push the universal brotherhood idea; the various peoples would find themselves compatible of their own accord."
-- Hitler according to the book "Bolshevism from Moses to Lenin"

What is the difference to a White man if his family is exploited by a Jew, a Black or a White?

[Alex Linder]

Fair enough. But what about the weak points that allowed the Jew entry. For example abuse of the working man by the capitalist?

The market raised average income and wellbeing far higher than anything else in history. "Exploitation" is a slippery word. What is it intended to mean? 150 years ago, most of us would have been farmers. Then the white race went through industrialization. It's easy to look back and say things should have been different, but look at where the "exploitation," if you must call it that, led: to riches available to the average man far beyond what any king could have dreamed of. So, I think the market deserves some credit, even if there was an interval when five-year-old girls had to work twelve-hour days. All the best white thinkers would say that human nature, or White nature, can't be altered, and people require the carrot of individual reward in order to do what intellectually they know they should. We have the ideals to keep our heads pointed in the right direction, but we need ordinary rewards and incentives to keep the system lubricated, even in an all-White society. Whites are naturally harmonious and competitive, and a good political order will divert these impulses in proper channels.

I consider it clear that the market mechanism works. I also consider it clear that the market knows no morals and few laws, and that the merchant, as Jefferson said, cares about his customers more than anything else. So, the merchant must be freed where he helps, and bound where he hurts. Who is to say? asks the libertarian. We are. We have no moral problem with using power to quash our racial enemies, because we understand that is biology's rule. Ninety-nine percent of the species that ever existed are extinct; we require no justification for fighting our oppressors beyond our desire to continue our line without being folded back into the darkness. Once competing races are vanquished, we can construct a system in which the economy serves the state's interests - in which the economy helps protect, rather than endangers, the race the state exists to serve. We say the merchant will be executed for employing Mexicans, selling high-tech to China, or producing interracial pornography.

The political class must dominate the business class, and go as far as it can in building a Prussian or Chinese quasi-clerical morality into the, small, bureacracy. This is not an easy culture to create, it can't be done overnight. With media removed from the hands of the jew, and with public education made Aryan and functional once again, we can begin to achieve it. We can never fool ourselves that a perfect system is possible, as the spoils of power will always tempt White men to break the law and serve themselves where they ought to fulfill their duty. It's a question of pushing the marginal man as far toward responsibilty as we can, by means of stern law, appeals to reason, and social approval, backed by mass media, and the applause of all classes.

There will have to be national public education to reverse the effects of 100 years of jewish Big Lying in the minds of the people. Americans once had a common understanding of themselves, their peoplehood, their nation, their past, and their future. They can again. This time they will get the full picture, including the foundation in race that was assumed, but not made as explicit as necessary - the true weak point that allowed jewish entry, rather than capitalist exploitation.

I don't see big business controlling things the way the left does. I worked a corporate job for years, I ran my own company for five years, and I consider corporate America in most ways preferable to academia. Business forces men to be industrious and creative, whereas academia instills conformity and passivity. I believe the best academics are more valuable than the best businessmen, but I also believe that you'll find 10 worthwhile businessmen for every worthwhile academic. Business in general is good and necessary; but it is most emphatically not what our new Aryan nation will be all about. Business, while generally positive, as an activity is only as good for the nation as the laws and the culture force it to be. For example, if the laws are set up to effect the melding of Mexico and the U.S., then certain types of businesses face the dilemma of hiring illegals or going out of business. That is plain fact. We can blame business for hiring illegals, but if economics forces it to, our blaming business is foolish. We must blame the people who created the legal/media/cultural milieu in which business must do business. We must always attack the disease, not the symptom. It is a jewish meme that the average business is more powerful and corrupt than the average government bureaucracy. The truth is the opposite, and that is why you will never see the government described as greedy, only corporations.

Business has to run as hard as it can just to stay in place - many of the top 100 companies don't even exist a decade later. The idea that corporations control everything is a jewish meme meant to distract attention from the jews who actually do control everything. Capitalism, meaning the market, forces people to compete and improve; it is the opposite of academic stagnation, where getting ahead depends on the approval of someone whose opinion is generally worthless. The engine of the market must be housed in the chassis of a racial and moral system, the corollary to Hitler's truth that the state exists to preserve the race. Properly housed and constrained, business will be a powerful engine in improving the lot of everyone. The concept that classes are inherently at odds is false. The classes may segregate naturally, but that is fine. As long as they perceive themselves as fundamentally belonging to a race and nation, and as long as there is room in the nation for talented lower class to advance, the system will function as smoothly as can be expected.

If you keep the taxes low, and you get rid of the ubiquitous equality lies infesting public education and jew-produced media, then you allow the provident to save and advance materially. That is the best thing that government can do for the poor, and the studies show that if you work, marry, and stay sober you're not going to be poor for long.

The government's job is not to make things good by positive action (beyond killing enemies) it is to stay small. The Aryan people are not jungle savages or superstitious jews - they really don't need much leadership in ordinary White society. Their unique ability to create order and self-police, after all, is what gave plausibility to the Great Lie of human equality, which is nothing but an imaginative extension of race-specific capacity from White to colored.

The natural tendency of any bureacracy, even the best, is to expand. That is a fact that comes from our nature, and it means we're in for an eternal struggle, which each generation must fight. It cannot be solved by killing or segregating people, the way the racial problem can. It is different in kind from the jewish problem, for which there is one and eternal solution.

America used to be a place with no federal taxes. As late as the fifties, those taxes were no more than 2%. In that time, a white man could support his family with his wages as a waiter. Today that is not possible. Today, White families work two jobs, can't save money, and are dead tired. All of which conduces to political slavery, leaving aside the ratchet effects of a media/banking system promoting consumerism through easy credit.

If the government can only "help" people by taking money from others, then government isn't very useful. Hitler may have done some things right, but the libertarians make valid points about his interfering with small business. I haven't seen their points rebutted. Of course, that is in no way to suggest that libertarians aren't completely wrong about the big picture, as they see nothing higher than the individual, which paradoxically leads to the destruction of the only race that has ever actually individuated.

VNN advocates the White individual in the White context. On this point we are unequivocal and dictatorial. In our nation, you will not be allowed to disagree with us on jews or race. That simple. Or, put differently, you may disagree with us on jews and race, but you will have no power, and even if you had, you'd find it exceedingly difficult to put your plans into operation once our work was complete.

Beneath the national, nay, global racial level lie workaday politics. As said above, the market solution is best, provided it is restrained. At the same time we would need to flip da scrip on our national public school system, just as the German camps were taken over by jews after Jews' War II. Our Aryanized public school system legitimately would be describable as educational. It would build character and instill genuine knowledge, rather than teaching lies and adjusting attitudes, as it does today.

It would overtly declare race and racial values as Higher than money accumulation and imbecilic self-expression. With media backing, the system would lean less on legal restrictions than on social pressure. Respect for true learning and earned individuality would return, as the wigger received no promotion, and the slut depreciation. This really is all it would take, for 99.9% of the population.

In time, depending on the capacity of the people, political power could devolve. The period of dictatorship would require immense personal character and self-control on the part of the leaders not to lead to a self-perpetuating class of arrogant overlords, which itself would require bloody revolution to displace. (Note that even were this the case, the elimination of the jewish problem and the subsidiary racial problem were worth this and a thousand times worse. There is quite literally nothing worse than living in a nation controlled by jews. It is worth any cost to end this Jewish Tyranny.)

I say again that many of the great difficulties we'd face in an all-White society cannot be overcome, but are struggles that each generation must deal with. I deal with these struggles little because they are 100x less important than teaching people the name of the Tyrant and advocating his deposing.

Among Whites in a White society, there will remain the standing desire to use government to do things it cannot do; and no amount of evidence will sway those who believe otherwise, as government is always a gang to the wise, and a God to the fools. Freemen must perceive themselves, then defend themselves, even against other whites. That's how it is. I can suggest to other white men, but the battle in their time is theirs. Ours is to realize Ourselves anew, and follow through getting rid of the jew.

[alex]

I disagree with almost everything Herr Linder has said.
Indeed i find this libertarian worldview downright dangerous for ns.First of all: the market doesnt regulate itself.If left alone the market will not produce "riches" for the entire Volk.
The rich would be getting richer and the poor will be getting poorer.Even in all-white countries.
If the market were so perfect things like the Communist and the National Socialist movement would never have existed.These movements did exist as every socialist movement because of the very real exploitation of the working masses by the capitalist swine.And its neither the "all perfect" market nor the "low taxes" which have brought riches to the masses,but it was socialist reforms proposed by the state and/or the unions.Without the pressure from the working masses on the economy for socialists reforms,today we would still have 10 year old children working 12 hours a day.

[Amalekite]

Frankly Bill, National Socialism is just affirmative action for whites who think they can't compete on an equal footing with the Jew (probably true).

Making it out to be some sort of an anti-egalitarian doctrine is a joke.

[Cthulhu]

This time they will get the full picture, including the foundation in race that was assumed, but not made as explicit as necessary - the true weak point that allowed jewish entry, rather than capitalist exploitation.


This is the only point where I can see you disagreeing with me (although I disagree with you on some points).

If you will look at my original post, I used the plural "points", and what I was trying to show was not so much that the Jews exploited the problem (and exacerbated it) but that the problem existed, and that a solution had to be provided for that problem. Regardless of the Jews, the problem existed and needed to be solved. Do you understand?

[Cthulhu]

I disagree with almost everything Herr Linder has said.
Indeed i find this libertarian worldview downright dangerous for ns.First of all: the market doesnt regulate itself.If left alone the market will not produce "riches" for the entire Volk.
The rich would be getting richer and the poor will be getting poorer.Even in all-white countries.
If the market were so perfect things like the Communist and the National Socialist movement would never have existed.These movements did exist as every socialist movement because of the very real exploitation of the working masses by the capitalist swine.And its neither the "all perfect" market nor the "low taxes" which have brought riches to the masses,but it was socialist reforms proposed by the state and/or the unions.Without the pressure from the working masses on the economy for socialists reforms,today we would still have 10 year old children working 12 hours a day.

I find much more to agree with here.

[Alex Linder]

This is the only point where I can see you disagreeing with me (although I disagree with you on some points).

If you will look at my original post, I used the plural "points", and what I was trying to show was not so much that the Jews exploited the problem (and exacerbated it) but that the problem existed, and that a solution had to be provided for that problem. Regardless of the Jews, the problem existed and needed to be solved. Do you understand?

You know my solution for jews, so I think the back story is academic once that problems is dealt with.

The weak points re jews I take to be the different circumstances of the times. Probably few of the Founders dealt with jews much. They may have been aware from books of the nature of the jew, but living in a rural world with very few jews about, they no doubt little considered the danger. Further, this was an era before mass media, and before big-time centralized banking. The jews simply didn't have the numbers or leverage to create problems making them worthy of special attention.

[Amalekite]

If you're going to fight the uphill battle for a revolution, you might as well fight for what you want, instead of what you think might be mildly easier to achieve.

That's not a bad attitude. If you set out to do what you want, you might actually achieve a fraction of your objectives.

That being said, I think it's wise to set objectives that are realistically attainable. Otherwise you run the risk of becoming a jaded, cynical old man sitting around waiting for "peak oil" to happen, or of giving up altogether.

BTW, I liked the series of articles you wrote about miscegenation not being a threat to white survival. Very interesting angle.

[Alex Linder]

I disagree with almost everything Herr Linder has said.
Indeed i find this libertarian worldview downright dangerous for ns.First of all: the market doesnt regulate itself.If left alone the market will not produce "riches" for the entire Volk.

I said the market had to be constrained in a political system, that is regulation. The market, not government, will indeed produce riches. Today you can walk into any store and with perhaps $2000 buy all the non-food goods you'll need for the rest of your life. Necessities are so cheap and easily produced that the real difficulty becomes finding new unworthy groups to extend credit to buy stuff no one needs in the first place.


The rich would be getting richer and the poor will be getting poorer.Even in all-white countries.

The poor today in human countries are inconceivably richer than the poor in other centuries. The poorest nigger in America is worlds richer in a purely money sense than average White Americans back in the thirties.


If the market were so perfect things like the Communist and the National Socialist movement would never have existed.These movements did exist as every socialist movement because of the very real exploitation of the working masses by the capitalist swine.And its neither the "all perfect" market nor the "low taxes" which have brought riches to the masses,but it was socialist reforms proposed by the state and/or the unions.Without the pressure from the working masses on the economy for socialists reforms,today we would still have 10 year old children working 12 hours a day.

Instead they're spending that time in school doing worse than nothing, in many cases. Children can't work real jobs until they're 16, which is foolish. Ninety percent of the population can't handle college material, so the extra years of schooling are wasted, or schooling in name only, or political indoctrination. The idea that the state makes the people rich is not merely ludicrous it is the opposite of the truth. The state makes people poorer. Unions are great if you have a job, but if you don't have a job, the union will keep it that way. Unions are the reason so many people in Europe are unemployed.

[Alex Linder]

Compare Hong Kong and China. HK is rich, China -- until it let the market work, was dirt poor. Same ethnic group in both countries, offering a perfect test case.

Cthulu asks about health care. Well, I will tell you that to the extent health care is screwed up it's because of government involvement. The government and its handmedia blame insurance companies, but then, that's what the govt does: fuck things up and blame someone else and demand more power. If you think I'm wrong, then you name me one thing the government does well? War in Iraq? Social security? Delivering mail? Affirmative action? Road maintenance? Rock catchers to Pluto? Crime policing? The government's core competence consists always and only in one thing: preventing the rise of competing gangs.

'Health care' is like any other good, you get what you pay for. Costs have rocketed purely because of government involvement, and there is no other reason. It is a perfect parallel to politics: no one can speak the truth because the vested interests are too strong to be opposed.

I used to write about telemedicine, the use of computers to project specialist expertise to distant places, theoretically a way to save costs, by avoiding patient travel. The government typically funds all sort of telemedicine demonstration projects, typically dreamed up by some female professional grant-application writer. These typically costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Then reporter Al calls 'em up and asks how often they're used: "Oh, about once a month. The doctors are still getting used to the system." In other words, money is taken from producers and earners and wasted. The guys who really made telemedicine work? I recall a white male doctor down in Lousiana who rigged up his own fetal monitoring system, with not a dime paid for by government. He devised a system allowing him to track fetal heartbeats of women with problem pregnancies from his office, rather than the women having to come in all the time. Actual progress in this world is almost never the result some government plan, and almost always the result of one patient, careful, thoughtful white male sitting alone at his desk or workbench in the middle of the night.

[Joe_J.]

[QUOTE=Alex Linder]I said the market had to be constrained in a political system, that is regulation. The market, not government, will indeed produce riches. Today you can walk into any store and with perhaps $2000 buy all the non-food goods you'll need for the rest of your life. Necessities are so cheap and easily produced that the real difficulty becomes finding new unworthy groups to extend credit to buy stuff no one needs in the first place.


Very accurate statement. That is indeed what is happening. The fed mortgage companies are putting niggers into homes that they will be booted out of once interest rates rise, credit card companies will give cards to anyone (a game that I refuse to participate it-the jewsury game ;) ) and etc.


The poor today in human countries are inconceivably richer than the poor in other centuries. The poorest nigger in America is worlds richer in a purely money sense than average White Americans back in the thirties.


They are but that is never good enough for the nigger, is it? I find it hilarious how the nigger will ape the elite in perhaps a car, clothing, etc. but cannot get beyond that and into the real nature of the higher classes, such as higher thought or cultured, mannered behavior. But they are niggers, so it comes as no surprise.


Instead they're spending that time in school doing worse than nothing, in many cases.

Yes, the time is spent on leftist indoctrination. Kind of like the dialectical marxism classes the USSR had in its schools, although the Soviets still managed to teach its students higher math and etc.

Unions are great if you have a job, but if you don't have a job, the union will keep it that way. Unions are the reason so many people in Europe are unemployed.

Unions are useless. Just a personal note: we have a IBEW (electrical workers) union where I live. There are no union jobs here, though. Being a member would simply be a waste of dues for me.

Were the jews not the biggest proponents of unions back in the early part of the 20th century? I know that many had communist ties, including one that demonstrated in Gastonia, NC in the 30s and which led to a riot and several people being shot.

Now the jew is pushing the anti-union, "New World Order" side of the issue. They have made the union superflous by working around it. Unions don't even fit in the equation anymore. A company can simply move to China or Mexico where unions are not a concern.

[Alex Linder]

They are but that is never good enough for the nigger, is it? I find it hilarious how the nigger will ape the elite in perhaps a car, clothing, etc. but cannot get beyond that and into the real nature of the higher classes, such as higher thought or cultured, mannered behavior. But they are niggers, so it comes as no surprise.

You can't make a nigger rich by giving it money, any more than a nigger is poor because it doesn't have money, or homeless are "homeless" because they don't have houses. Rich, like poor or homeless, in the vast majority of cases is a consequence, not a cause. If you control your behavior, if you have the genes that predispose you to control behavior -- genes which most whites have but many niggers lack -- and you make the right choices, you will become rich, even if you start with nothing. In a democracy that worships equality, of course, none of this can be mentioned. If others are richer than we are, it must be because they're evil or crooks. The jew media eggs people into thinking this way. It teaches niggers that the white man oppressed them, when in fact he elevated them; it teaches the poor that the rich oppressed them, when in fact the rich gave them jobs.

Just because something is what you morally judge bad, alex -- kids working long hours -- doesn't mean there is a better alternative available. It doesn't even mean that it actually is bad. Those hard-working kids sure weren't wiggers, even if their skin was coal-black.


Yes, the time is spent on leftist indoctrination. Kind of like the dialectical marxism classes the USSR had in its schools, although the Soviets still managed to teach its students higher math and etc.

The Soviets had to stick to reality to the extent it strengthened their military, otherwise it was straight jew indoctrination. I have a bunch of commie books I got in East Germany, there's nothing like an ABC book of Marxist-Leninismus.


Unions are useless. Just a personal note: we have a IBEW (electrical workers) union where I live. There are no union jobs here, though. Being a member would simply be a waste of dues for me.

The point about capitalism is that it evolves, it is never the same thing twice. It is incredibly fast-moving, and that's what people fear about it. Wal-mart doesn't have a union and its people vote against it.


Were the jews not the biggest proponents of unions back in the early part of the 20th century? I know that many had communist ties, including one that demonstrated in Gastonia, NC in the 30s and which led to a riot and several people being shot.

They're on both sides of everything. Captialists, management, workers, commies, whatever's "good for jews" "in the moment."


Now the jew is pushing the anti-union, "New World Order" side of the issue. They have made the union superflous by working around it. Unions don't even fit in the equation anymore. A company can simply move to China or Mexico where unions are not a concern.

These days I think protectionism makes sense, at least to an extent. If we had a culture that gently tapped people away from extreme materialism, then they'd be satisfied with non-material pursuits, and since we can get all the stuff we need easily anyway, we could afford the higher costs protectionism entails. We could keep our nation a true nation, which is incalculably more important than any additional economic costs.

Economic protectionism is part of political protectionism; part of looking out for the family that is the nation is looking out for its jobs and its market, and not simply allowing global efficiencies to push markets down to third-world levels.

[Cthulhu]

Compare Hong Kong and China. HK is rich, China -- until it let the market work, was dirt poor. Same ethnic group in both countries, offering a perfect test case.

Cthulu asks about health care. Well, I will tell you that to the extent health care is screwed up it's because of government involvement. The government and its handmedia blame insurance companies, but then, that's what the govt does: fuck things up and blame smoeone else and demand more power.

'Health care' is like any other good, you get what you pay for. Costs have rocketed purely because of government involvement, and there is no other reason. It is a perfect parallel to politics: no one can speak the truth because the vested interests are too strong to be opposed.

I used to write about telemedicine, the use of computers to project specialist expertise to distant places, theoretically a way to save costs, by avoiding patient travel. The government typically funds all sort of telemedicine programs, typically dreamed up by some female professional grant-application writer. These typically costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Then reporter Al calls 'em up and asks how often they're used: "Oh, about once a month. The doctors are still getting used to the system." In other words, money is taken from producers and earners and wasted. The guys who really made telemedicine work? I recall a white male doctor down in Lousiana who rigged up his own fetal monitoring system, with not a dime paid for by government. He devised a system allowing him to track fetal heartbeats of women with problem pregnancies from his office, rather than the women having to come in all the time. Actual progress in this world is almost never the result some government plan, and almost always the result of one patient, careful, thoughtful white male sitting alone at his desk or workbench in the middle of the night.

This is below your intelligence.

'Health care' is like any other good, you get what you pay for. Costs have rocketed purely because of government involvement, and there is no other reason. It is a perfect parallel to politics: no one can speak the truth because the vested interests are too strong to be opposed.

Who are these vested interests? The companies doing business with the government? The market corrupting the government officials?

National Socialism is a worldview. The government exists to serve the people. That is its sole purpose. It can not be bought, it cannot be sold. It protects the workers and it protects the market. Both must work together for the best interests of both.

Hong Kong has public housing, and state health care ect., unfortunately there is growing poverty in Hong Kong due to recent market reforms.

BTW: Switzerland provides government healthcare.

[Amalekite]

There's too much inaccurate characterization here to discuss fully, but VNN's basic view is racial dictatorship now, power devolution later. We have always taken the hardest possible line on the jews. When jews and coloreds do not exist in our nation, there can be no recurrence of judeo-neocon-liberal insanity.

Ideally, a White U.S. would function like Switzerland. Extremely heavily armed individuals, living in their various communities as they see fit, but with an unbreakable common commitment that the state, the federal government, exists to defend the race that created it. As long as government carries out its one duty, defending the race, the vast majority of the rest of the decisions are better left to local Whites to decide. I don't want Bill White making housing decisions out of Washington any more than I want Kevin Strom making marriage decisions.

Thanks for making your position clear. I didn't think you were a "National Socialist" like so many here, because it wouldn't make sense to run the forum the way you do if you were. But I had a hard time figuring out what your views were.

I find your vision far more palatable than the re-hashed authoritarian schemes I've often seen expressed on VNNF. I can accept that an authoritarian form of government might be a necessary transitional step on the way to something better, but an authoritarian government is not what I want my children and grandchildren growing up under. Anyone who tells me that this is necessary for "my own good" is as much my enemy as the worst Jewish tyrant. Sadly, I've come to realize that Zionists and neo-Nazis may be two sides of the same coin.

I also want to express my appreciation for making VNNF a "free speech forum." I don't think you get to hear that often enough. :cheers:

[billwhite]

I disagree with almost everything Herr Linder has said.
Indeed i find this libertarian worldview downright dangerous for ns.

Alex came out of the conservative mileu. His views are tainted by it.

It is my opinion that white racial political doctrines that fall short of national socialism reflect a lack of development that comes from a lack of understanding of the current real world situation.

One cannot, for instance, dissolve government housing overnight. Too many people are dependent on it, and we would put a large portion of the white race out of their homes if we did. Similarly with disability, SSI, TANF and the whole host of welfare.

We have created a large class of white people in this country who do not work, do not produce, and have no desire to do so. We must reawaken in them their working class tendencies by weaning them off of government services and bringing them back into the world of productive labor.

I think if Alex had some more practical experience with organizing people, his views would mature and he would be a much better and more effective leader than he is now.

Without meaning to insult him, I have always detected from Alex a hesitation to cross the boundaries between talking about ideas and acting on ideas. Alex is a perfectionist, and he doesn't like to engage in activities that he doesn't feel he can execute perfectly. His fear of failure, or appearing to fail, or really of being subject to legitimate criticism, keeps from having some of the learning experiences he needs to realize his potential.

He also is not very social, and I don't think has the broad interaction with the working class necessary to understand their position in the US today.

VNN, and, now, the Aryan Alternative have done much better than I ever thought they would, but in order for them to continue to grow, their leadership has to continue to grow.

[Alex Linder]

Who are these vested interests? The companies doing business with the government? The market corrupting the government officials?

Oh, man. "The market corrupting the government officials." Reverse that.

The government doesn't precisely "corrupt" the market, it distorts it. It passes regulations -- always in the name of clean air or some other good -- that private business is forced to comply with. These regulation almost always make things worse - more expensive, less available. Then the politicians run to their media, and together they start shouting about corporate greed! That is exactly how the system works.


National Socialism is a worldview. The government exists to serve the people. That is its sole purpose. It can not be bought, it cannot be sold. It protects the workers and it protects the market. Both must work together for the best interests of both.

That's a nice theory. I doubt there's any government that doesn't claim the same. Those who claim to be "public servants" are the greediest mofos of all, and they rely on Joe Public taking them at face value.


Hong Kong has public housing, and state health care ect., unfortunately there is growing poverty in Hong Kong due to recent market reforms.

I don't know about now, but whatever minor socialism it may endure, it has always had low to no taxes, and that is the reason for its phenomonel economic success.


BTW: Switzerland provides government healthcare.

And how many people go to Switzerland for healthcare? They come here, because in spite of our socialism, we still have most advanced health care. If the government would get out of the way completely, it would become even better. Instead we're very likely to get Hilary Clinton in 2008, with renewed call for a single-payer system. Socialized health care is precisely the kind of nostrum that sounds good to the fool in the street who cannot understand cause and effect. Socialized health care means people dying in waiting lines. There are economic laws at work that no political theory can falsify, altho the govt and complicit media will do their corrupt best to hide connections.

[billwhite]

I find your vision far more palatable than the re-hashed authoritarian schemes I've often seen expressed on VNNF. I can accept that an authoritarian form of government might be a necessary transitional step on the way to something better, but an authoritarian government is not what I want my children and grandchildren growing up under.

Ironically, Alex's view of the world is more "authoritarian" than the national socialist one.

I find it strange someone would not see it that way. How do you think Alex's system could work without strong state authority?

[billwhite]

I would also add this, before I head out this morning:

The "market", as envisioned by capitalists, is an inherently anti-racist institution. Market thinking always leads to the capitalist class (those who provide the capital for businesses) exploiting the workers, because the capitalist mentality calls for the return on their investment without regard to the good of society or to those who work for them. The "pure market" of authoritarian capital led directly to the demand for socialism -- which the Jews perverted into Bolshevism and internationalism.

The "market", because its only logic is return on investment, demands the sale of more goods to a more and more homogenized consumer -- hence globalism -- and the dissolution of those boundaries -- racial, national, cultural, religious, et cetera -- that impede the flow of capital or which reate local variations in the demand for good (that create niche markets that large capitalist enterprises cannot efficiently address).

Thus market thinking is always anti-racist thinking. Such thinking came out of the first protestant, then Masonic thinking of the 16th through 18th centuries.

For a racial dictatorship to impose itself on the market is a denial of market ideology. There is no system in which "the market" can serve the interests of the group short of fascism, and no way in which it can serve the race short of national socialism.

[Cthulhu]

Well if you want to see Whites riot you tell them that it is good for their children to be working 12 hours a day at the age of 10 and create conditions where that is permissible.

Like I said before and which you apparently did not understand is that the White workers did not enjoy being exploited. And whether the Jews were present or not you would have had to deal with the fact that Whites did not like their treatment at the hand of the markets. If you want to return to that state of affairs then the White masses will again seek redress and you will have to get the billy clubs out and start beating them over the heads.

Your idea that the government corrupts the companies rather than the companies corrupting the government is like saying the junkie is corrupting the dealer.

[knightowl]

Hey Bill White! I saw you on Current Affair. I also heard you on a radio show. I can't remember if it was VonBluvens or Hal Turner. Keep stirring up the shit. I can't wait to see how it all goes down in December!

[Amalekite]

Switzerland provides government healthcare.

Are you sure of that? A relative in Switzerland recently had to have (essential) surgery done. I think they paid for it out of their own pocket (then again, it's possible they went to a private hospital to avoid the waiting list at the public one).

[Alex Linder]

Alex came out of the conservative mileu. His views are tainted by it.

I think they're deepened by it. I know the best the Anglo-American conservatives have come up with, and I know the best the nazis and Germans have come up with. I feel confident that Burke and Hitler and Jefferson and Mencken would read the best on VNN/F and substantially agree.


It is my opinion that white racial political doctrines that fall short of national socialism reflect a lack of development that comes from a lack of understanding of the current real world situation.

One cannot, for instance, dissolve government housing overnight. Too many people are dependent on it, and we would put a large portion of the white race out of their homes if we did. Similarly with disability, SSI, TANF and the whole host of welfare.

This is a conservative insight, that an existing situation although bad, can always be made worse by fools who think improvement is easy. Still, in short order the stock could be sold off, people made to understand there's a new order, and it doesn't include heaping scoops of welfare. Just like mexicans after a few of their invaders were shot, they'd get the message real quickly.


We have created a large class of white people in this country who do not work, do not produce, and have no desire to do so. We must reawaken in them their working class tendencies by weaning them off of government services and bringing them back into the world of productive labor.


True, many do not realize how many are on variations of AFDC, WIC and SS supplemental.


I think if Alex had some more practical experience with organizing people, his views would mature and he would be a much better and more effective leader than he is now.

Without meaning to insult him, I have always detected from Alex a hesitation to cross the boundaries between talking about ideas and acting on ideas. Alex is a perfectionist, and he doesn't like to engage in activities that he doesn't feel he can execute perfectly. His fear of failure, or appearing to fail, or really of being subject to legitimate criticism, keeps from having some of the learning experiences he needs to realize his potential.

He also is not very social, and I don't think has the broad interaction with the working class necessary to understand their position in the US today.

VNN, and, now, the Aryan Alternative have done much better than I ever thought they would, but in order for them to continue to grow, their leadership has to continue to grow.

Allowing the cops to dictate the manner in which we exercise our rights seems rather contrary to the spirit of those who first secured them. As far as rallies, although you never know precisely how they'll play out, they need a good deal more "production" than we've seen so far.

[Amalekite]

Ironically, Alex's view of the world is more "authoritarian" than the national socialist one.

I find it strange someone would not see it that way. How do you think Alex's system could work without strong state authority?

Alex was talking about a strong, but limited, central government, with everything else being handled at the local level. A confederation, really. Participation would be voluntary, although there wouldn't be any reason not to join. Am I missing something?

[Alex Linder]

Well if you want to see Whites riot you tell them that it is good for their children to be working 12 hours a day at the age of 10 and create conditions where that is permissible.

That work got us where we are today, so there's no need to repeat it. If it hadn't been better than the alternative back then, they wouldn't have taken those jobs.


Like I said before and which you apparently did not understand is that the White workers did not enjoy being exploited. And whether the Jews were present or not you would have had to deal with the fact that Whites did not like their treatment at the hand of the markets.

Yes, I recall the giant boats they swarmed onto to take them back to the old country.


If you want to return to that state of affairs then the White masses will again seek redress and you will have to get the billy clubs out and start beating them over the heads.

In the name of everything good and holy the government does all imaginable monstrous things. It sprays Iraqis with "Willy Pete"; it sends trillions of your dollars to Israel; it sits on efficacious drugs and disseminates poisons called "vaccines."


Your idea that the government corrupts the companies rather than the companies corrupting the government is like saying the junkie is corrupting the dealer.

The only reason private industry is involved with government at all is that govt has grown so big that it regulates nearly everything, and industry can't do anything without prior approval. Dealing with government becomes a necessary part of doing business, which makes things worse for everybody.

You probably believe that government regulation makes things safer, which is like believing in fairies, except where there is no evidence for the existence of fairies, there is positive evidence that government regulation makes things more expensive, more dangerous, and just plain worse.

[Malleus]

I'm going to take this point-by-point here. I usually don't feel this need to speak my mind on these topics but here I feel compelled.

I have said that there is no white racial struggle without national socialism, and that that position is reflective of the general position of the National Socialist Movement.

NS'ism is great, but if memory serves, the KKK had 4 million + members – long before the concept of National Socialism even existed.

When it is said that there is no white nationalism without national socialism, that is exactly what is meant. It is impossible to struggle for the interests of the white race without inevitably coming to the national socialist worldview.

I happen to agree, in a sense, simply because we are rapidly approaching the point where the bones of the corpse of “democracy” are beginning to show. I've spoken for years of a “Nationalist Idea,” because of the simple facts that democracy is digging its own grave by decimating the working class and shipping in millions of muds to displace the White middle class base. People are growing tired of the constant corruption and abuse they must tolerate under “democracy” so the pressure for a genuine alternative is building.

I say “Nationalist Idea” because what the future portends as an alternative will inevitably be more Nationalistic in nature (as a simple matter of organic evolution of this political organism) and I also do not have a crystal ball to predict what it will shape out to be. It could be a paradigm shift within the present government (which I doubt) or it could be pressure from without to let in new leaders with a new idea (most likely) or it could even come on the heels of a out-and-out revolution.

There are a number of reasons white activists do not call themselves national socialists when, in fact, they are contributing to such a struggle. These divide into three types:

One is the activist who is struggling for the white race but does not have a fully developed ideology. These activists are proto-national-socialists. They are national socialists that do not have a full enough political development to identify themselves as such. With this type of activist, the National Socialist Movement urges unity.

The second is the activist who is a national socialist but who is convinced that national socialism cannot win, and thus disguises their national socialism as something else. These are the activists who attack the National Socialist Movement's approach as "too bold", as "dated", as "having no appeal". These are activists who wish they could achieve national socialism but, lacking the will and the confidence necessary to struggle for it, are content to struggle for something else -- something approved, or which they believe could be approved, by the current Jewish system of exploitation and oppression. While these activists are always welcome to attend National Socialist Movement events and consider a conversion, there is little room for "unity" between us -- because their fear of their own selves causes them to reject us as a living negation of their approach.

The third type of activist is the activist convinced of some other doctrine, but also convinced, separately, of racial theories which contradict it. Constitutionalists, libertarians and the "Patriot Movement" fall into this category. The US Constitution, the ideology of libertarianism, and the "Patriotism" of the "Patriot Movement", all rest on a belief system that holds at its heart the fundamental equality of man, or that a system should exist that makes pretense of such equality. Sometimes these men argue that in a "true" system of equality, natural differentiation will occur anyways, since given an equal playing field, the inequality of man will create and perpetuate economic and social inequalities. But they ignore the paradox that, if an equal playing field creates and perpetuates inequality, why should the equal playing field be created in the first place, as oppose to a playing field that separates men along the divisions men inevitably fall into?

I fall into none of the above cases. For one, I have a fully developed ideology which I adhere to: Creativity. It works for me, on a personal level. (e.g., In the mornings before I trudge off to do my duty to society, I sometimes review the 16 commandments to inspire myself to do my duty and perform a good service for the community, even a sick and dying one. http://www.overthrow.com/creator/ner/ner-2-04.asp ) So this scratches out category one.

Category 3 doesn't apply, either. I'm aware of lefty communist, “democratic” and “anti-racist” theories, but they are all dead ideologies and can be dismissed with a simple notation: Any political system or Idea which does not take the absolute reality of race – and of racial differences – in to account is doomed to failure.

This leaves category two, which doesn't apply largely in part due to my views on the tactics of the group approach (including NSM and other groups), more than anything else. Having watched Matt Hale & Co. go down in flames, and having observed other groups come and goo like farts in the wind, I have come to conclude that the group approach is doomed to follow the dinosaur. As mentioned earlier, the KKK had over 4,000,000 members at its peak. They didn't win. The German-American Bund had 40,000+ members in the 1930's. They didn't take the nation by storm either. The various racial political groups that coalesced in the 1970's had the support of a broad swath of the White working classes, even if they wouldn't leave their homes to support any political ideas. These groups didn't go anywhere either. Now we have the comings and goings of a fair amount of White Nationalists groups of various forms and sorts: NA, NV, etc. These also fail to polarize the crowd.

So the final question becomes one of, essentially: having done the same thing, over and over, for years on end (to wit: “Join my social club and we'll 'win'”), and having met with the same failure repeatedly, I ask you, Bill White, what's going to work this time? What will be different this time around that hasn't been tried before?

Rallies? Been there, done that.

Group meetings and lectures? Seen it.

Running for office? Check.

Publicity stunts? Quickly forgotten by the lemmings.

Forums and internet-based mental masturbation? Covered.

Mass distribution of literature and flyers? Yep.

As you can see, this is largely a question of tactics. The ultimate failure of White Nationalism is the latent inability to think in new dimensions. So again I ask, what's going to be different this time around?


In the white nationalist "scene", there are three centers of leadership right now. There is the group around National Vanguard, Stormfront and David Duke, the group around Vanguard News Network and Alex Linder, and there is the National Socialist Movement and its broad coalition.

There is a fourth arm of this triumvirate you speak of. A hidden arm. And this is composed of those who are Awakened, who are Aware, yet are not attached to any groups, entities or movement. They are waiting for something to change. When they will act, and what they will do is entirely up to them.

In life you only get what you ask for. If you ask for a "far right" conservative government that embraces the principles of the Constitution and had some mild understanding of racial reality, you will get that -- and it will, over time, turn into exactly what the last government in the US of that nature turned into -- a neo-conservative state dominated and exploited by Jews and ex-communists.

Good point, but this begs the question as to what Idea or government can be installed and “written in stone” such that it cannot and will not be perverted by jews, neo-cons, anti-social liberals, etc. What's going to work this time around, that we haven't tried before?

VNN would do well to develop and advocate for a coherent world view more sophisticated than "simple" white racialism. One can refer all questions to the interests of the race, but one cannot answer all questions by the race alone. What is a proper housing policy for a white government? What is a proper penal policy? Some questions have obvious answers -- black crime against whites must be addressed, for instance -- but how should it be addressed? And how should white crime in a white society be addressed? It is by answering the more sophisticated questions that a real national socialism develops.

Does National Socialism contain all of these answers within, say, Mein Kampf?

See, here's one of the issues I take with NS-ism. In all honestly, I feel it worked well with 1930's Germany. It worked stupendously, in fact, and it genuinely solved the problems that Germany was facing, hands down, in record time. The outright successes of National Socialism and their attendant economic miracle was the direct precipitator of WW2, in part because the rotten party politicians didn't want to look bad by comparison.

However, I question where it can be carbon-copied onto the political realities of 21st century America, an America so watered down politically that words count for more than action in the political sphere; there are only two parties with no real competitors; the notion of a private armies and particular party uniforms and symbols has never been explored; and the lemmings are so brainwashed that they hate anyone with a divergent view in general and a “nazi” in particular.

So the National Socialist Movement stands apart from the other trends in white nationalism in that it is not willing to pursue a reformist path and it is not willing to accept the leadership of those who do not have a fully developed and coherent social, political and economic worldview. The National Socialist Movement represents the highest degree the white liberation struggle has achieved in the United States, and, as such, its organization and its tactics represent the only option for white nationalism and white people.

Sounds good. This entire Western Culture needs a top-to-bottom cleansing and reformation which will kick out all of the cultural parasites and culture distorters and install a new government under a new Idea which will prepare the Western peoples for their Cultural Mission. If National Socialism is the vehicle to do so, then I'll admit the "errors of my ways" and help push it along. I first need to be sold on the idea that the failures of the past will not be repeated, and ultimately that this time around a group-based party approach will work before I do so, however.

[Lisa]

Bill White said: One cannot, for instance, dissolve government housing overnight. Too many people are dependent on it, and we would put a large portion of the white race out of their homes if we did. Similarly with disability, SSI, TANF and the whole host of welfare.

We have created a large class of white people in this country who do not work, do not produce, and have no desire to do so. We must reawaken in them their working class tendencies by weaning them off of government services and bringing them back into the world of productive labor.

I think if Alex had some more practical experience with organizing people, his views would mature and he would be a much better and more effective leader than he is now.

Without meaning to insult him, I have always detected from Alex a hesitation to cross the boundaries between talking about ideas and acting on ideas.

Well then smartie pants, tell us....."WWBWD - What Would BillWhite Do"? :) Huh?....((((ANSWER ME))))...LOL I realize that this discussion is all over the page, addressing many points of fact and issues; but your comment here just leaped right out at me. I think it is you Sir who is being impractical and rather tend to complicate a fairly simple matter. Your mind-set only serves to reinforce and validate the mind-set of those living off the government dole, IMO.

There is but one way to "awaken" the leeches of society - you light a fire under their butts - give them 6, maybe 9 months lead time and tell them their free ride ends on the end of it. They will sink or they will swim, but in any case, they will be responsible and accountable for themselves - and that is as it should be. Able bodied people oughta be working and paying their own way - end of story. The only exception, IMO, would be the truly physically disabled......and in that case, we should hold next-of-kin responsible for their welfare and offer something, but very little, by way off monetary support for their care - not a living.

A drug addict or drunk doesn't get "weaned" off his drug of choice - he/she puts it down....stops using....stops putting the substance into his body or his body will never stop craving it. A younger mother doesn't "wean" her baby off of the bottle - she takes it away at the appropriate age and hands him a cup to drink out of........and he does it, 'cause it just comes natural to him. That's why we don't see 10 year olds walking around with a baby bottle hanging from his lips. :)

Keep it simple Billy.

[Alex Linder]

I would also add this, before I head out this morning:

The "market", as envisioned by capitalists, is an inherently anti-racist institution. Market thinking always leads to the capitalist class (those who provide the capital for businesses) exploiting the workers, because the capitalist mentality calls for the return on their investment without regard to the good of society or to those who work for them. The "pure market" of authoritarian capital led directly to the demand for socialism -- which the Jews perverted into Bolshevism and internationalism.

'Market' is simply a term attached to buyers and sellers making arrangements for exchange. Whether or not race is taken into account depends on the parties involved. Libertarians don't even agree. Some say, a la WSJ, that we should have open borders, as each man is a free agent. Others say individuals can form nations that can make collective decisions against individual political 'market' choices. Who can say what is right? No one, in an absolute sense. But we racialists assert our right to form a nation, and if we have the strength, then we can exercise our right. That means we have the power to constrain the (political) market with regard to choices about who becomes a member of our collective. The market is race-neutral; it is necessarily neither racist nor anti-racist. It exists where it is allowed to exist, just as water takes the shape of its container. Just like water, it will escape where you give it a crack, as the inducement to financial profit is always strong in men, even if they achieve that profit by illegal or immoral means. The best that can be done is use education and media to persuade men against materialism, while recognizing the market's centrality to rational production and exchange of goods and services. Hitler recognized that. I believe my policy is Hitlerian, but I don't have a full understanding of what exactly Hitler did. The key is to make sure that anybody tempted to destroy or undermine the racial basis of the state understands that, a la Singapore and drugs, he will face the death penalty. At that point one has done the best he can to constrain the natural market system while enjoying the efficiency it alone offers.


The "market", because its only logic is return on investment, demands the sale of more goods to a more and more homogenized consumer -- hence globalism -- and the dissolution of those boundaries -- racial, national, cultural, religious, et cetera -- that impede the flow of capital or which reate local variations in the demand for good (that create niche markets that large capitalist enterprises cannot efficiently address).

True, but the market can be limited by the political choices of the state it serves. China has shown this, and the we-under-the-jews have shown the opposite. China makes the aracist or anti-racist market serve racist China; whereas the jews use it to grind up whites, mexes and blacks and thereby serve their racial interests.


Thus market thinking is always anti-racist thinking. Such thinking came out of the first protestant, then Masonic thinking of the 16th through 18th centuries.

The market is but one consideration among others. It has its place, but its place is not everyplace. No snuff movies, no importing mexicans to do our dirty work. When the difficult political problem is solved, the easy market problem follows immediately.


For a racial dictatorship to impose itself on the market is a denial of market ideology.

Or, it is a market decision made by the collective known as the nation.

[Alex Linder]

The market exists to serve the people, but that doesn't mean the people are served by the government owning the means of production - quite the reverse. The people are served when they are represented by an elite loyal to their collective racial interests. In the political sphere that means killing invaders and maintaining defenses; in the economic sphere that means keeping the country out of debt, keeping taxes low, and spreading an accurate national narrative through the schools.

[Mechanic]

[QUOTE]billwhite"National Vanguard and Stormfront, and their leaders, Kevin Strom, Don Black and David Duke, are national socialists who believe very strongly that national socialism cannot win, and that there must be a bourgeois-conservative revolution as a precondition for a National Socialist victory. Their position is similar to that, on the left of a century ago, of the reformist communists of the German parliament and the Mensheviks of the Russian. They believe that a "Far Right" conservative government along Constitutionalist - Patriotic lines, that embraces some racial realities but is not willing to take on the issue of the Jew is necessary before a national socialist revolution, and that the ultimate goal of national socialist revolution must be concealed from everyone -- including many of their own supporters -- until the preconditions have been met".[END QUOTE]


If you want to identify the real rulers of any society,simply ask yourself this question,Who is it I cannot criticize? K.A.S.
The above quote does not come across as a statement by someone unwilling to "take on the issue of the Jew".

[Amalekite]

And how many people go to Switzerland for healthcare? They come here, because in spite of our socialism, we still have most advanced health care. If the government would get out of the way completely, it would become even better. Instead we're very likely to get Hilary Clinton in 2008, with renewed call for a single-payer system.

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should look at the mess that is the Canadian socialized health care system. Waiting periods of 6 months to 2 years for life-or-death procedures. Not enough doctors to go around (because most of them move to the States where they get paid considerably higher salaries). And everyone has to pay for it, regardless of the quality of the care they receive.

Canada's health care system is heading towards a major crisis. I don't think it'll last another twenty years in the state it's in now.

[Cthulhu]

Goggle "Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad". Jefferson and Hitler would have given you a box on the ears.

You idea that corporations are just good spirited genies who only want the best for everyone, is a dismal display of fantasy.

[Lisa]

The market exists to serve the people, but that doesn't mean the people are served by the government owning the means of production - quite the reverse. The people are served when they are represented by an elite loyal to their collective racial interests. In the political sphere that means killing invaders and maintaining defenses; in the economic sphere that means keeping the country out of debt, keeping taxes low, and spreading an accurate national narrative through the schools.


Hi Alex......I understand that you are the big cheese around here. Lisa, pleased tah meetcha. :)

I look forward to visiting here......learning and adding my lowly feminine two cents on occassion. :) Hey....last night I tried to log on for nearly an hour and kept getting a "server is busy - try again later" message. That's happened several times since I registered. What's that all about?

[Cthulhu]

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should look at the mess that is the Canadian socialized health care system. Waiting periods of 6 months to 2 years for life-or-death procedures. Not enough doctors to go around (because most of them move to the States where they get paid considerably higher salaries). And everyone has to pay for it, regardless of the quality of the care they receive.

Canada's health care system is heading towards a major crisis. I don't think it'll last another twenty years in the state it's in right now.

Well when you throw a whole lot of muds into the mix, fail to support training for your own doctors and nurses things can get tough. Cuba seems to have plenty of doctors though, looking at how many they wanted to send after Katrina. Question of will.

[Alex Linder]

Thanks for making your position clear. I didn't think you were a "National Socialist" like so many here, because it wouldn't make sense to run the forum the way you do if you were. But I had a hard time figuring out what your views were.

I find your vision far more palatable than the re-hashed authoritarian schemes I've often seen expressed on VNNF. I can accept that an authoritarian form of government might be a necessary transitional step on the way to something better, but an authoritarian government is not what I want my children and grandchildren growing up under. Anyone who tells me that this is necessary for "my own good" is as much my enemy as the worst Jewish tyrant. Sadly, I've come to realize that Zionists and neo-Nazis may be two sides of the same coin.

I also want to express my appreciation for making VNNF a "free speech forum." I don't think you get to hear that often enough. :cheers:

You're welcome. People get too worked up about the noise on here. It's better we keep this open to all investigators and even hostiles who think they can take us on. Those who think they can disrupt us by means of our own rules will find otherwise.

The jews form a powerful team. It will take a powerful team to defeat them. That means discipline, hierarchy, and organization - the antithesis of the liberal, open, private, independent society we prefer. After we build that team and take power from the jews and set the nation on solid biological basis, then we can think about devolving power. I don't see any other way to go. I don't see jews keeping elections honest where any genuine alternative to the two-faced Uniparty presents itself. How come we have 85 options for morning cereal, but 1 option when it comes to politics?

[Alex Linder]

Goggle "Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad". Jefferson and Hitler would have given you a box on the ears.

You idea that corporations are just good spirited genies who only want the best for everyone, is a dismal display of fantasy.

Corporations can't force you to buy their products. That is the most significant difference between them and government. It is the difference that defenders of government always ignore because they haev no answer to it.

If government (Social Security, "first class" mail, integration) is so great, how come I can't opt out?

[Alex Linder]

Are you sure of that? A relative in Switzerland recently had to have (essential) surgery done. I think they paid for it out of their own pocket (then again, it's possible they went to a private hospital to avoid the waiting list at the public one).

This is what ALWAYS happens in socialized medical systems. The government gets the best health care (check out House/Senate benefits), the rich can buy private care, or jump ahead in line, the poor get inferior care or no care. Ah, but it's "free." Sure, if you don't count the 50% taxes to provide it.

"If you think health care is expensive now, wait till it's free." -- P.J. O'Rourke

That is a one-sentence refutation of socilized medicine it is impossible to improve upon.

If you're dumb enough to think anything can be provided for free, then enjoy your waiting list, fool.

Translate socialized medicine into reality, it means politicians like Hilary Clinton deciding who gets treated for which diseases in what order; who becomes doctors (think lots more dumbed-down docs, more general practitioners and fewer specialists, more affirmative actionable and fewer human doctors, especially males, and lower pay for docs to ensure that only the pure of heart and empty of head go into the field).

Socialized medicine = "free wish sandwhiches -- on the House!"

[Alex Linder]

Hi Alex......I understand that you are the big cheese around here. Lisa, pleased tah meetcha. :)

I look forward to visiting here......learning and adding my lowly feminine two cents on occassion. :) Hey....last night I tried to log on for nearly an hour and kept getting a "server is busy - try again later" message. That's happened several times since I registered. What's that all about?

Welcome, Lisa. That busy message would be the result of the latest DOS attack courtesy of the tender blokes at the Amalgamated Federation of Homosexuals, Jews, and Multiple-Drug-Resistant Rectal Gonorrhea Sufferers.

[Cthulhu]

Nice try. You can opt out. You can leave. Or you can refrain from getting a social security number. And what are you complaining about the MSM for? They can't force you to buy their products. And if some corporations slip a donation here or there for darkies to come in to lower the cost of wages, where is the harm? No one is forcing you to buy their products. No one is forcing you to accept the government!

How do you think this all came about in any case? It was the Jews who dones it! Well what sort of need do you think they were fulfilling? No need at all? People just brought in to it for no reason at all. The government can't force you to do anything you don't want to do. You can chew through your wrists any time you like.

So when the next depression hits are they going to turn to the "suck it in", "put your 10 year olds to work", "eat grass", "prostitute yourself" Linder, or are they going to turn to those who actually plan to put food in their bellies and see they have work? And not by the government controlling the means of production (nice try at ringing a pavlovian bell when there ain't no food coming). That is communism not National Socialism. Try reading up on the economic policies of the Reich. You might be surprised.

[Alex Linder]

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should look at the mess that is the Canadian socialized health care system. Waiting periods of 6 months to 2 years for life-or-death procedures. Not enough doctors to go around (because most of them move to the States where they get paid considerably higher salaries). And everyone has to pay for it, regardless of the quality of the care they receive.

Canada's health care system is heading towards a major crisis. I don't think it'll last another twenty years in the state it's in now.

True, very true. Yet some Canadians will argue to the end of the earth that they have the best system in the world. No one goes to Canada for treatment, they all come here. If you're an ordinary slob, the freer the health care market, the better you're served. The only ones who receive good treatment under socialized medicine are the politically connected and the rich with the money to buy around problems. The poor "get nothing and like it." But it's free, wheeeeeeeee!

[Alex Linder]

Well when you throw a whole lot of muds into the mix, fail to support training for your own doctors and nurses things can get tough. Cuba seems to have plenty of doctors though, looking at how many they wanted to send after Katrina. Question of will.

Yeaaaaah. You betcha. Cuba's excellent health care system is founded on the solid basis of nobody having enough to eat! This is their wise socialist solution to the "not enough toilet paper" problem.

Yay, socialism!

[Joe_J.]

[QUOTE=Alex Linder]The jew media eggs people into thinking this way. It teaches niggers that the white man oppressed them, when in fact he elevated them; it teaches the poor that the rich oppressed them, when in fact the rich gave them jobs.


The jew has always been behind this kind of shit. Is it any coincidence that the influx from Eastern Europe and its jews came about the same time as commie agitation during the early 1900s? I think not. They are always in there. "Civil rights workers"? Jews when there were "White" people in the picture. And so the jew marches on. The ONLY solution to the jew we have is to rid the world of them.

The Soviets had to stick to reality to the extent it strengthened their military, otherwise it was straight jew indoctrination. I have a bunch of commie books I got in East Germany, there's nothing like an ABC book of Marxist-Leninismus.


One can still see the jew flavor of the commie revolution. And then compare it with the Pol Pot style of revolution.

The point about capitalism is that it evolves, it is never the same thing twice. It is incredibly fast-moving, and that's what people fear about it. Wal-mart doesn't have a union and its people vote against it.


I hate WalMart and have not darkened their doors in over a year.

I am not a capitalism fan. Give me NS anyday!


They're on both sides of everything. Captialists, management, workers, commies, whatever's "good for jews" "in the moment."


Fuck that. It is time for "what is good for Whites"


These days I think protectionism makes sense, at least to an extent. If we had a culture that gently tapped people away from extreme materialism, then they'd be satisfied with non-material pursuits, and since we can get all the stuff we need easily anyway, we could afford the higher costs protectionism entails. We could keep our nation a true nation, which is incalculably more important than any additional economic costs.

I believe in protectionism myself. Protect the State, the workers, the State's economy.

Fed no longer releasing M3 info. How do you like that jewish bullshit. Oh, wait, Fed is jewish. Sorry.

Good info on economy here:
http://www.netcastdaily.com/fsnewshour.htm

[Alex Linder]

Nice try. You can opt out. You can leave. Or you can refrain from getting a social security number.

Sure, I could, but those profound life dislocations, as opposed to simple market choices. There's no comparison.


And what are you complaining about the MSM for? They can't force you to buy their products.

I don't buy their products. The most powerful medium is television, and that shades into government as the FCC factually incorrectly declares radio and tv space a limited good, thereby allowing it to license and regulate it.


And if some corporations slip a donation here or there for darkies to come in to lower the cost of wages, where is the harm? No one is forcing you to buy their products. No one is forcing you to accept the government!

How do you think this all came about in any case? It was the Jews who dones it! Well what sort of need do you think they were fulfilling? No need at all? People just brought in to it for no reason at all. The government can't force you to do anything you don't want to do. You can chew through your wrists any time you like.

Macdonald studied this and found that jews were the sole pressure fighting for open borders. Giant corporations did not want them. Now, forty years down the road, there are so many tens of millions here that they've undercut wages and forced certain sectors of the economy to employ them or go under.


So when the next depression hits are they going to turn to the "suck it in", "put your 10 year olds to work", "eat grass", "prostitute yourself" Linder, or are they going to turn to those who actually plan to put food in their bellies and see they have work? And not by the government controlling the means of production (nice try at ringing a pavlovian bell when there ain't no food coming). That is communism not National Socialism. Try reading up on the economic policies of the Reich. You might be surprised.

The early industrial revolution and the hyperinflation/depression in Germany are entirely different things driven by different causes. If a new depression strikes, people will turn to those who can offer a plausible explanation of who screwed things up and what to do about it. Offering bread and soup is fine, but it's no substitute for a market economy, where appropriate.

[ohgolly]

... it is clear that NS Germany involved a degree of bureaucratic intrusiveness unacceptable to Aryans.

As a mere matter of opinion on what is now an irrelevant point, I disagree. Hitler's Germany only existed for twelve years. Still in its infancy and faced with all of the problems and opposition that entailed, its 'intrusiveness' was as necessary during its creation and establishment as is a mother's supervision of her baby in a jungle. Even so, it moved ahead at a faster pace than did the burr-ocracy in America, for example.

It will take a powerful team to defeat them. That means discipline, hierarchy, and organization - the antithesis of the liberal, open, private, independent society we prefer.

...racial dictatorship now, power devolution later.

Of course I agree with your general view and prescriptions, including the silliness of well meaning incompetents trying to imitate NS Germany down to the tie clasps.

[Cthulhu]

"If you think health care is expensive now, wait till it's free." -- P.J. O'Rourke

That is a one-sentence refutation of socilized medicine it is impossible to improve upon.

If you're dumb enough to think anything can be provided for free, then enjoy your waiting list, fool.

Translate socialized medicine into reality, it means politicians like Hilary Clinton deciding who gets treated for which diseases in what order; who becomes doctors (think lots more dumbed-down docs, more general practitioners and fewer specialists, more affirmative actionable and fewer human doctors, especially males, and lower pay for docs to ensure that only the pure of heart and empty of head go into the field).


More crap. Firstly, that is not a refutation, except perhaps on FreeRepublic, which I am indubitably giving you much enjoyment, reminiscing over at the moment.

Second you are translating socialized medicine into a system controlled by the likes of the Clintons, and their donors, and not National Socialists. And as for your jibe at Cuba, I would agree excepting America's long time antipathy towards it might explain some short comings, though the human material would be enough.

Yes, its about the genetics unless it is about the political system. Like being a Jew is first a faith and then a race, depending on what devil is driving. I can see through the Jew Linder and you are no where near as good at that game as them.

[Alex Linder]

As a mere matter of opinion on what is now an irrelevant point, I disagree. Hitler's Germany only existed for twelve years. Still in its infancy and faced with all of the problems and opposition that entailed, its 'intrusiveness' was as necessary during its creation and establishment as is a mother's supervision of her baby in a jungle. Even so, it moved ahead at a faster pace than did the burr-ocracy in America, for example.

It was both too intrusive and not intrusive enough: it moved too slowly on the jew front. It proceeded deliberately, legally, and cautiously over a decade to do poorly and in portion what should have been done completely and immediately once power was in its hands. On the other hand, its anti-smoking campaign - that is a perfect example of obnoxious intrusiveness. Hitler was a tad prissy in certain respects: no drinking, no smoking, no meat. Leftists are like that, not rightists. All this gradiose horseshit that govt shouldn't worry about, just take care of the drainage. Get rid of the jews and niggers, and keep your heroic superhuman stadiums to yourself. I prefer an understated government that does a few things extremely well and stays out of the rest.

[Cthulhu]

Sure, I could, but those profound life dislocations, as opposed to simple market choices. There's no comparison.

Me: Of course you could and that was the question. What the effect would be on you lifestyle is besides the point.

I don't buy their products. The most powerful medium is television, and that shades into government as the FCC factually incorrectly declares radio and tv space a limited good, thereby allowing it to license and regulate it.

Me: And the FDA makes sure the food you eat is fit for human consumption. Is this again a burden you are unwilling to bare, after all who would want to feed you human excrement with your bagel?

Macdonald studied this and found that jews were the sole pressure fighting for open borders. Giant corporations did not want them. Now, forty years down the road, there are so many tens of millions here that they've undercut wages and forced certain sectors of the economy to employ them or go under.

Me: Maybe 40 years ago, but who was looking to import programmers from India? And why were the illegals crossing the border 40 years ago if no one was employing them? And who was employing the legals that came if they were not wanted? And now they are forced to employ them and off shore and all the rest... yeah what ever.

The early industrial revolution and the hyperinflation/depression in Germany are entirely different things driven by different causes. If a new depression strikes, people will turn to those who can offer a plausible explanation of who screwed things up and what to do about it. Offering bread and soup is fine, but it's no substitute for a market economy, where appropriate.

Me: Never compared the two. Why are you? But if a new depression strikes they will listen to the man offering them a square meal and work, and he gets to point his finger. And work is more than just bread and soup. Your attempt to minimise is noted. And as for market economy, it was designed to function differently by the founding fathers was it not? Corporations having only a certain shelf-life, and being able to have their charter pulled by the people. Now why did Jefferson want to help set up something like that?

[Alex Linder]

More crap. Firstly, that is not a refutation, except perhaps on FreeRepublic, which I am indubitably giving you much enjoyment, reminiscing over at the moment.

Second you are translating socialized medicine into a system controlled by the likes of the Clintons, and their donors, and not National Socialists. And as for your jibe at Cuba, I would agree excepting America's long time antipathy towards it might explain some short comings, though the human material would be enough.

Yes, its about the genetics unless it is about the political system. Like being a Jew is first a faith and then a race, depending on what devil is driving. I can see through the Jew Linder and you are no where near as good at that game as them.

Germans can make a bad system work better than other peoples, true, but why have a bad system when you can have a good one? Socialism is driven by smart people taking advantage of mass resentment than some people can afford better things than others. Rather than encouraging the poor to work harder, save more, improve their behavior and worry about their own business, the evil smarties very jewily persuade them that the rich man is stealing from them. Not the case! Health care costs are so high because of all the paperwork private providers are forced to fill out to satisfy government regulators. If the government would get out of the picture, the costs would drop to affordable levels. People would buy catastrophe insurance for the big stuff, and pay out of pocket for the small. If not, they'd rely on private charity. If there were none, they'd lie in bed and cross fingers for the hope-cure, which studies show is every bit as effective as the waiting-list cure, AND THE REST OF US DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

[Cthulhu]

As for smoking in the Reich, you were free to do so, but just as large companies had to provide recreational facilities for the workers to play and exercise if they liked, the Health Ministry tried to point out the health effects of smoking and discourage it. See better to have a fence at the top of the cliff than an ambulance at the bottom. It saves money.

But you are right, the USA is different from Germany, being much larger for example, and with a more diverse set of European stock. Still the force of expectation and necessity will see you having an NS form of governance, if it becomes a nation based on racial principles.

[ohgolly]

It was both too intrusive and not intrusive enough: it moved too slowly on the jew front. It proceeded deliberately, legally, and cautiously over a decade to do poorly and in portion what should have been done completely and immediately once power was in its hands.

That's possible, but it's also from hindsight. It's easy for us to forget all that's involved in remaking a society. From everything I've read I conclude that they moved as fast as they were able to, under the conditions they faced.

On the other hand, its anti-smoking campaign - that is a perfect example of obnoxious intrusiveness. Hitler was a tad prissy in certain respects: no drinking, no smoking, no meat.

I believe that these things have been tremendously exaggerated, as has so much about the era and the program.

Leftists are like that, not rightists. All this gradiose horseshit that govt shouldn't worry about, just take care of the drainage. Get rid of the jews and niggers, and keep your heroic superhuman stadiums to yourself. I prefer an understated government that does a few things extremely well and stays out of the rest.

Yes, that is an ideal, but you can't jump into it directly from the tar pit, as you know.

[billwhite]

Bill White said: [B]Well then smartie pants, tell us....."WWBWD - What Would BillWhite Do"? :) Huh?....((((ANSWER ME))))...LOL I realize that this discussion is all over the page, addressing many points of fact and issues; but your comment here just leaped right out at me. I think it is you Sir who is being impractical and rather tend to complicate a fairly simple matter. Your mind-set only serves to reinforce and validate the mind-set of those living off the government dole, IMO.


Quite the contrary. I am a National Socialist. I think the government should provide jobs, room and board to both those who cannot find productive labor and to criminals -- with different standards of living and degrees of control over the two.

Here's how I recently answered the question:

Assuming a peaceful ascent to power, the initial changes in the government would be national socialist but moderate. My initial foci:

* Ban the practice of the Jewish religion; arrest leaders of the Jewish lobby; enact racial laws barring Jews from holding office, participating in the press, teaching at universities, practicing law, owning large portions of American banks and companies and otherwise interfering with the vital cultural tasks of the nation

* Ban anti-racist and communist organizations; criminalize the teaching of multi-culturalism or diversity

* Enact legislation for penal reform through labor.

* Deport the Hispanic population back to their countries of origin.

* Enact segregation; dissolve all inter-racial marriages; re-criminalize race-mixing; sterilize mulattos; enact incentives to repatriate American blacks in Africa.

* End the US war in Iraq; support white nationalist movements in Europe and the general European liberation countries; focus foreign intervention on restoring Southern Africa to white rule and to resettle the black population of that part of the continent.

* Reform the welfare state; eliminate subsidies and enact labor programs -- including compulsory labor programs -- for the unemployed; make the focus of welfare assisting the temporarily out of work rather than sustaining a class of the out of work.

* Strengthen the common police powers of the state while weakening the political policing powers, except in the case of Jews and their related subversives.


There is but one way to "awaken" the leeches of society - you light a fire under their butts - give them 6, maybe 9 months lead time and tell them their free ride ends on the end of it. They will sink or they will swim, but in any case, they will be responsible and accountable for themselves - and that is as it should be.

And when millions start rioting for food and jobs, what will you do to control them. Machine gun them? And when they responding by organizing for Bolshevism -- the only movement that seems to accept them -- what will you do, fight a civil war?

I believe in a peaceful transition to National Socialism, because the alternative, starving the masses, builds support for communism and creates the potential of a Bolshevik counter revolution.

[billwhite]

It was both too intrusive and not intrusive enough: it moved too slowly on the jew front. It proceeded deliberately, legally, and cautiously over a decade to do poorly and in portion what should have been done completely and immediately once power was in its hands.

Hitler wanted to avoid a war, and a Bolshevik counter revolution.

If a white government takes power peacefully, it is to the disadvantage of all people for it to start a civil war by attempting the immediate massacre or mass displacement of millions. Such efforts will allow communists to recruit and organize and may very well lead to a civil war which it is always possible the communists could win.

A white government that took power would be much better advised to move cautiously in building the new order, rather than moving abruptly against popular opposition and being overthrown.

Hitler realize this, thus the actions of the Third Reich.

This is one of the reasons I say people need more practical experience in building a political-social-cultural-economic movement. Such experience tends to eliminate the fantastic thinking behind "silver bullet" solutions.

On the other hand, its anti-smoking campaign - that is a perfect example of obnoxious intrusiveness. Hitler was a tad prissy in certain respects: no drinking, no smoking, no meat.

Hitler had a deep respect for life and for himself, thus he did not kill animals unnecessarily, and he did not abuse his body with toxic substances. There is nothing prissy about that.

Those who obsess over the "freedom" to harm themselves or enage in vice show the weakness of their own characters.


Leftists are like that, not rightists. All this gradiose horseshit that govt shouldn't worry about, just take care of the drainage. Get rid of the jews and niggers, and keep your heroic superhuman stadiums to yourself. I prefer an understated government that does a few things extremely well and stays out of the rest.

How can a community-based government address issues of race? How can one give local autonomy to governing units that may decide "hey, this white power thing isn't so good after all? let's bring the niggers back."

Any sort of racial policy implies central authority.

And in order to avoid class struggle, the government must intervene in the economy to curb the excesses of the bourgeoisie and to drive the economy towards social, not private, interest.

You have some other good points you've made that deserve addressing Alex, in some other posts, and I will try to hit them later on.



Yes, that is an ideal, but you can't jump into it directly from the tar pit, as you know

[ohgolly]

Oh shit, I'm agreeing with Bill White.

Or maybe he's agreeing with me.

Either way, I'm doomed. :(

[Frank Gunn]

Vanguard News Network, however, more represents the blank slate -- the organization without any developed political ideology
VNN is a group. It may not be a formal organization, but it does exist as an identifiable political entity.
Jeezus Bill, which one is it? Who the hell let you back in?


Notwithstanding your usage of oxymora, I pretty much agree with the rest of your post. Especially this stuff:
National Vanguard and Stormfront, and their leaders, Kevin Strom, Don Black and David Duke, are national socialists who believe very strongly that national socialism cannot win, and that there must be a bourgeois-conservative revolution as a precondition for a National Socialist victory.
[...]
In life you only get what you ask for. If you ask for a "far right" conservative government that embraces the principles of the Constitution and had some mild understanding of racial reality, you will get that -- and it will, over time, turn into exactly what the last government in the US of that nature turned into -- a neo-conservative state dominated and exploited by Jews and ex-communists.
[...]
If you're going to fight the uphill battle for a revolution, you might as well fight for what you want...

[Lisa]

Welcome, Lisa. That busy message would be the result of the latest DOS attack courtesy of the tender blokes at the Amalgamated Federation of Homosexuals, Jews, and Multiple-Drug-Resistant Rectal Gonorrhea Sufferers.

Ahhhh, I see. Cyber-terrorism courtesy the speech-stompers. Too funny....whatever could they be afraid of? :)

[Lisa]

Your "wish" list is expansive Bill.....and I think impractical and unrealistic. Certainly, your listing contains some beneficial ideas; but to say that you want the government to "provide for" it's citizens just reeks of the liberal mind-set that has proven to be our Achilles' heal to begin with.

Personally, I'd be happy turning the clock back 60 some years.

And when millions start rioting for food and jobs, what will you do to control them. Machine gun them? And when they responding by organizing for Bolshevism -- the only movement that seems to accept them -- what will you do, fight a civil war?

Quite simply, yes. You don't "control" animals and lawbreakers - you "handle" them.

[Joe_J.]

Your "wish" list is expansive Bill.....and I think impractical and unrealistic. Certainly, your listing contains some beneficial ideas;

I disagree. Bill is advocating closely the points of the original NSDAP. Impractical and unrealistic? The Third Reich did it. Germany went from being in the gutter and having a boot on its postWWI neck to being a world power in six years. Hitler and the NSDAP did that, not capitalist jews.

but to say that you want the government to "provide for" it's citizens just reeks of the liberal mind-set that has proven to be our Achilles' heal to begin with.


I suggest you actually read some things about National Socialism. It won't work in a multiracial society. It will work in a White society. I used to be one of the "Constitutionalists" until I saw how easy the document makes it for the jew to worm his way in. I am proven correct. That is why I became a National Socialist myself.

I also gave thought to the issue of socialism because I had been led to believe that it was evil and something was wrong with it. But, you know, the Reich didn't have so much a welfare state as they had a state that protected the workers, the citizenry. I have no problem at all helping White widows, orphans and those who absolutely cannot help themselves. Under jew capitalism, we are expected to cast these people on the streets along with the deaf, the blind and etc.

One of the 25 points is that any child that has high IQ gets college. If the parents are poor then the government pays for it. A great idea. It moves bright minds up in society instead of keeping them down.

Personally, I'd be happy turning the clock back 60 some years.

Not so much that as fulfilling the best political philosophy that sprang from Germany all of those years ago.

Quite simply, yes. You don't "control" animals and lawbreakers - you "handle" them.

While I agree with that, troops gunning down people in the streets horrifies everyone on the sidelines of the struggle. Bill is right. The commies would crawl out of the woodwork and the crackhouses and try to stage their own revolution. It takes a careful hand...

[Joe_J.]

25 POINTS OF AMERICAN NATIONAL SOCIALISM

1. We demand the union of all Whites into a greater America on the basis of the right of national self-determination.

2. We demand equality of rights for the American people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the United Nations, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the World Bank, the North American Free Trade Agreement, the World Trade Organization, and the International Monetary Fund.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle surplus population.

4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the state. Only those of pure White blood, whatever their creed, may be members of the nation. Non-citizens may live in America only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens. Accordingly, no Jew or homosexual may be a member of the nation. :cheers:

5. The right to vote on the State government and legislation shall be enjoyed by citizens of the state alone.

We therefore demand that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the nation, in the states or in smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens.

We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations and special interests-without reference to character or abilities.

6. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) will be deported.

7. All non-White immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Whites currently residing in America be required to leave the nation forthwith and return to their land of origin: peacefully or by force.

8. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties, regardless of class or station.

9. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash within the framework of the community and be for the common good.

We therefore demand:

10. The abolition of incomes unearned by work The breaking of interest slavery.

11. In view of the enormous personal sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We therefore demand the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

12. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

13. We demand economic reform suitable to our national requirements;

The prohibition of pro-marxist unions and their supplantation with National Socialist trade unions;

The passing of a law instituting profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises;
[looking at what the average CEO of a corp makes vs. the average worker who actually keeps the corp alive, I see no problem with this-dtz]

The creation of a livable wage;

The restructuring of social security and welfare to include drug testing for welfare recipients;

The immediate discontinuation of all taxes on things of life's necessity, such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine etc.:

The replacement of the current tax system with a flat-rate tax based on income.

14. We demand the treasonable system of health care be completely revolutionized.

We demand an end to the status quo in which people die or rot away from lack of proper treatment due to the failure of their medical coverage, Health Maintenance Organization, or insurance policy.

We further demand the extensive development of insurance for old age and that prescription drugs be made both affordable and accessible.

15. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small trades in the placing of state and municipal orders.

16. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, that shall be twofold in nature:

The primary land reform will be to ensure all members of the nation receive affordable housing. The party as such stands explicitly for private property.

However, we support the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation when deemed necessary for land illegally acquired, or not administered in accordance with the national welfare.

We further demand the abolition of ground rent, the discontinuation of all taxes on property, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

The secondary land reform will be to ensure the environmental integrity of the nation is preserved;

By setting aside land for national wildlife refuges;

By cleaning the urban, agricultural, and hydrographical (water) areas of the nation;

By creating legislation regulating the amount of pollution, carbon dioxide, greenhouse gases , and toxins released into the atmosphere;

And for the continued research and development of clean burning fuels and energy sources.

17. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles, drug dealers, usurers, profiteers, race traitors, etc. must be severely punished, whatever their creed or race.

18. We demand that Roman edict law, which serves a materialistic new world order, be replaced by Anglo-Saxon common law.

19. The state must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education with the aim of opening up to every able and hardworking American the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement.

The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life.

The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the state of the nation through the study of civic affairs.

We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the state.

20. The state must ensure that the nation's health standards are raised by protecting mothers, infants, and the unborn:

By prohibiting abortion and euthanasia, except in cases of rape, incest, race-mixing, or mental retardation

By prohibiting child labor and ending the rudiments of child abuse, alcoholism, and drug addiction.

By creating conditions to make possible the reestablishment of the nuclear family in which the father works while the mother stays at home and takes care of the children if they so choose.

By taking away the economic burden associated with childbirth and replacing it with a structured system of pay raises for those that give birth to healthy babies, thereby returning the blessing associated with children.

To further ensure that the nation's health standards are raised, legislation shall be passed promoting physical strength and providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.

21. We demand the right to bear arms for law-abiding citizens.

22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary army, the end to the over-use of our military as a 'Meals-on-Wheels' program in foreign lands of no vital interest to our nation; and the formation of a true national service for the defense of our race and nation. One that excludes: non-Americans, criminals, and sensitivity training.

23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press. To facilitate the creation of a national press we demand:

(a) That all editors of and contributors to newspapers appearing in the English language must be members of the nation;

(b) That no non-American newspapers may appear without the express permission of the State. They must not be written in the English language;

(c) That non-Whites shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing American newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspapers, and the immediate deportation of the non-Americans involved.

The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden. We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand.

24. We demand absolute religious freedom for all denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence nor offend the moral feelings of the White race. The Party combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common good before self-interest.

25. To put the whole program into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central national government for the nation; the unconditional authority of the political central parliament over the entire nation and its organizations; and the formation of committees for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the nation and the various American States.

The leaders of the movement promise to work ruthlessly-if need be to sacrifice their very lives-to translate this program into action.

[Joe_J.]

Well, I guess my calls to JP to write this are superfluous since someone else got to it first.

National Socialists reject the Establishment's misleading left/right political spectrum, and are neither "rightist" nor "leftist," favoring policies similar to those put forth by both "liberals" and "conservatives" on many issues. National Socialism cannot be confined to a philosophical "pigeonhole" because our revolutionary Vision transcends the false stereotypes inherent in the "traditional" political spectrum.

Fascism is properly the name of the political and social ideology espoused by Italian Duce and Premier Benito Mussolini. Fascism and National Socialism have many similarities, but are not synonymous. Fascists believe in the supremacy of the State and conformance to a rigid artificial social order, while National Socialism is the manifestation of the Laws of Nature in harmony with the collective spirit of the People, or Folk, who are the highest entity of the Nation, above the State and other man-made institutions.

The term "fascist" derives from the Latin word fasces, the name of the Roman symbol of legitimate authority, a wrapped bundle of rods with a projecting axe. The fasces can be found today in and on many "American" Federal and State government buildings, and county court houses. "Fascist" is regularly used by the Jewish-controlled media, Establishment academicians, and misled Americans as a label intended to be severely derogatory to any opponent of the present System's illegitimate power over the American People.

What does National Socialism offer me, the ordinary American?

National Socialism means the opportunity of a happier, more fulfilling life for the ordinary American working man and woman.

A National Socialist government will work for you and your best interests, using your hard-earned tax dollars for the benefit of your People's well-being, not for "foreign aid" parasites like Israel.

National Socialism means that the American worker's productivity --his or her hard work-- will work not for international bankers, millionaire Capitalist racketeers, and their politician-stooges, but to build a better today for American families and an even brighter tomorrow for Aryan children.
National Socialists support:

1. opportunities for all to have a rewarding, productive career, suited to individual ability, talent, and needs.

2. affordable opportunities for all families to truly own a home or a food-and-fiber-producing homestead.

3. opportunities for creative entrepreneurs to establish or sustain productive businesses supporting their families and the national economy, free from the crippling taxes, usury-bondage, and corrupt anti-entrepreneur tactics of today's monopoly Capitalist system.

4. physical and spiritual health maintenance programs for all ages, emphasizing holistic nutrition and fitness awareness.

5. free, comprehensive medical services for all, with special concern for children, mothers, and the aged.

6. free, universal quality education, primary through university level, stressing excellence, practical knowledge, and love of wisdom.

7. enjoyable leisure and social activities for workers inside and outside the workplace, including family vacations, participant sports, and Nature appreciation activities.

8. replacement of Establishment-directed soul-destroying mindless "entertainment" and degenerate "art" with government-supported programs empowering all to express themselves in spiritually-healthy music and literature, graphic, plastic, and performing arts, and other cultureforms.

9. replacement of the Establishment's mechanistic, inorganic, money-driven law code with a People's Law system upholding the principle of justice for individuals regardless of wealth, gender, or age.

Question not how National Socialism will build a better life, but how it can once again.

That comes from here:
http://www3.stormfront.org/ns/nsprimer.html

I am extremely disappointed that Stormfront does not list NSM in the resources section. America's Nazi Party gets no mention but NA/NV does? WTF?

[Joe_J.]

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ENCgermany.JPG

The original 25 point party program of the NSDAP can be found here:
http://www4.stormfront.org/posterity/ns/25pts.html

Sieg Heil!\o

[Augustus Sutter]

Business forces men to be industrious and creative, whereas academia instills conformity and passivity.

Maybe fifty years ago this was the situation. In large corporate Amerikwa today, conformity and passivity, especially with regards to White males, are demanded. The corporate structure operates exactly in a Jew prescribed fashion. It is multi-cultural, effeminate, even matriarchal in its nature and operation. Any sign of masculinity on the part of a White Male is viewed as a threat by the corporate matriarchy. It is a highly controlled artificial environment in which women and minorities are elevated above White Males. There is no malfeasance on the part of women and minorities that won't be tolerated. As in all things Jewed and multi-culturalized in Amerikwa today, those artificially elevated on some level are aware that if White Males ever assert themselves their little party will be over. White men exist only to serve women and minorities. They are constantly under the microscope for any sign of non-compliance. White men that do rise in the company are only the most conformist, obsequious, effeminate and unprincipled fops in Amerikwa today.

[Lisa]

disagree. Bill is advocating closely the points of the original NSDAP. Impractical and unrealistic? The Third Reich did it. Germany went from being in the gutter and having a boot on its postWWI neck to being a world power in six years. Hitler and the NSDAP did that, not capitalist jews.

The Third Reich fell DZ. :(

I suggest you actually read some things about National Socialism. It won't work in a multiracial society. It will work in a White society. I used to be one of the "Constitutionalists" until I saw how easy the document makes it for the jew to worm his way in. I am proven correct. That is why I became a National Socialist myself.

I'm teachable DZ....my mind remains forever open, which is the reason I've involved myself and am interested in this movement to begin with, however, as to the Jew......he is a parasite who in part, because of his greedy and supremacist nature always takes one bite of the apple too many and gets found out. The scenario has played out hundreds of times in the common era - they get found out and kicked out of their host nations. History repeats itself like that and this time shall be no different - the only identifiable difference this time is, Jews are running out of places to hide.........their "homo-land" won't even be a safe haven for them because without the US and the generosity of it's taxpayers, it's impotent...it will fail to exist. This bullshit, trumped up, lie of a war for Israel is beginning to awaken even the staunchest Lib. It's the JEW DZ.....and they use dumb blax and other minorities as their front men.......they turned them loose on us and they will be sorry they did. I know how the story ends......history tells us so. :)

One of the 25 points is that any child that has high IQ gets college. If the parents are poor then the government pays for it. A great idea. It moves bright minds up in society instead of keeping them down.

We do away with anti-white, government endorsed programs like AA. That's a no-brainer. The ability to obtain a college education should be based on desire and motivation....not IQ and the truth is, if we stopped giving free educations to minorities just because they are, college tuitions through out the country would be lower and more affordable to the average working family.

I'd like to see ALL white persons educated........not just the inherently brightest amongst us. That's how we improve and raise IQ DZ...we educate our people.

While I agree with that, troops gunning down people in the streets horrifies everyone on the sidelines of the struggle. Bill is right. The commies would crawl out of the woodwork and the crackhouses and try to stage their own revolution. It takes a careful hand...

The well is gonna run dry.....the wheels are gonna fall off the wagon here DZ....the economy is gonna collapse and the scenario that Bill expressed WILL become reality. There will be shooting in the streets..and what white folks saw just go down in Toledo and after Katrina will look like the third grade picnic. I surmize that'll bring about a time when people accept that it's time to separate the wheat from the chaff.........eat or be eaten.

[Lisa]

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ENCgermany.JPG

The original 25 point party program of the NSDAP can be found here:
http://www4.stormfront.org/posterity/ns/25pts.html

Sieg Heil!\o

Thank you....I need to get started on my day. I've booked marked your link and will give it a read later.

[Joe_J.]

[QUOTE=Lisa]The Third Reich fell DZ. :(


The reason it did is because Germany was fighting the "allies" with their jew money and material output, which Germany alone could not match. Even historians admit that German arms and tactics tended to be superior. Thing was, Germany could not produce enough arms or babies to win alone.

I once saw an interview with a former GI who was in a Sherman tank. That tank was junk. He admitted it. Admitted that their shells bounced off of the German tanks. The only way they could knock out German armor with a Sherman was to have a gang of them hit one German tank. Only the Russian T-34 was a match for German armor.

That is just one example.


I'm teachable DZ....my mind remains forever open,

Me, too. That is why I became NS at the ripe old age of 33. LOL.

which is the reason I've involved myself and am interested in this movement to begin with, however, as to the Jew......he is a parasite who in part, because of his greedy and supremacist nature always takes one bite of the apple too many and gets found out. The scenario has played out hundreds of times in the common era - they get found out and kicked out of their host nations. History repeats itself like that and this time shall be no different - the only identifiable difference this time is, Jews are running out of places to hide.........their "homo-land" won't even be a safe haven for them because without the US and the generosity of it's taxpayers, it's impotent...it will fail to exist. This bullshit, trumped up, lie of a war for Israel is beginning to awaken even the staunchest Lib. It's the JEW DZ.....and they use dumb blax and other minorities as their front men.......they turned them loose on us and they will be sorry they did. I know how the story ends......history tells us so. :)

I agree with you here to a point. And that point is the fact that the US State Dept has set up an agency for the jew, Canada and Germany will arrest those that make comments against jews. The UN probably is not far behind. Even the ADL has infested law enforcement heavily.

We do away with anti-white, government endorsed programs like AA. That's a no-brainer. The ability to obtain a college education should be based on desire and motivation....not IQ and the truth is, if we stopped giving free educations to minorities just because they are, college tuitions through out the country would be lower and more affordable to the average working family.

I'd like to see ALL white persons educated........not just the inherently brightest amongst us. That's how we improve and raise IQ DZ...we educate our people.



I agree with you here, though NS tends to look at someone's abilities and talents. I avoided college myself. I prefer to work outdoors and in an occupation that is physically challenging. Keeps me from getting fat. I would go nuts working in an office somewhere. Not all of us want or need college. Otherwise, I agree.

The well is gonna run dry.....the wheels are gonna fall off the wagon here DZ....the economy is gonna collapse and the scenario that Bill expressed WILL become reality. There will be shooting in the streets..and what white folks saw just go down in Toledo and after Katrina will look like the third grade picnic. I surmize that'll bring about a time when people accept that it's time to separate the wheat from the chaff.........eat or be eaten.

Your scenario is why I became a survivalist in '94. The day will come. Stock beans and bullets, guys. And get the hell out of the cities.

[ohgolly]

The Third Reich fell DZ. :(

The Third Reich was overwhelmed. Whenever I get the chance I like to expose fans of the greatest generation to a geographical world map and point out how it took a half a decade for nine tenths of the world to subdue the other one tenth.

[alex]

I said the market had to be constrained in a political system, that is regulation. The market, not government, will indeed produce riches. Today you can walk into any store and with perhaps $2000 buy all the non-food goods you'll need for the rest of your life. Necessities are so cheap and easily produced that the real difficulty becomes finding new unworthy groups to extend credit to buy stuff no one needs in the first place.

The poor today in human countries are inconceivably richer than the poor in other centuries. The poorest nigger in America is worlds richer in a purely money sense than average White Americans back in the thirties.

Instead they're spending that time in school doing worse than nothing, in many cases. Children can't work real jobs until they're 16, which is foolish. Ninety percent of the population can't handle college material, so the extra years of schooling are wasted, or schooling in name only, or political indoctrination. The idea that the state makes the people rich is not merely ludicrous it is the opposite of the truth. The state makes people poorer. Unions are great if you have a job, but if you don't have a job, the union will keep it that way. Unions are the reason so many people in Europe are unemployed.
I will not comment on the last sentence which is obvious bs.On the rest:

1.Sure the market may produce some "riches" and some wealth.But this is not the point.Left alone all of these "riches" and this wealth will go into the pockets of the few, namely the capitalist pigs.The working masses who practicaly produced this wealth will remain empty handed.Its logical then that the profits of the market have to be controlled at least to a point by the state.

In the past,in the pre-Globalization era, the democratic state and the unions where primary responsible for the redistribution of this produced wealth so that the working masses would profit to a point from this.

Today,Globalization-era, the democratic state has proved corrupt and the unions unable to defend the "redistribution" rights of the working masses.Democratic politicians need the election-campaign funds of the greedy capitalists and the unions almost always comply with the demands of the capitalists under the threat of taking the jobs overseas.Outsourcing has proved a powerful weapon in the hand of the greedy capitalists against the unions.The democratic state will not face this problem because it badly needs those above-mentioned financial funds.

2.Apart from all that,the national socialist state will also have to make sure that even the family-oriented business will not "produce wealth" by harming the "health" of the Volk.You named interracial sex for example.I could add tabaco,and enviroment-polluting industries etc. to it.

Considering now points 1 and 2 how could a decentralized "small",weak and unbeaurocratic state handle these problems.This is ridiculous.
No!
What is needed is a strong,all-powerfull,authoritarian,centralized National Socialist state.

[NIM Buster #666]

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ENCgermany.JPG

The original 25 point party program of the NSDAP can be found here:
http://www4.stormfront.org/posterity/ns/25pts.html

Sieg Heil!\o


I think you will find a better version here

http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/nsdap/docs/nsdap.html

look under Party Program

I grew up in a racist family and one thing is certain, they would not spit on a Nazi, their view being Hitler declared war on the USA, thus he and Nazism became the enemy.They went to war and fought and died fighting Nazis, and be damned if they were going to support them.

For my 2 cents every person who puts on his Nazi costume and parades around spits in the face of the US combat vet.

The WN will never succeed under the swastika, it does more harm than good.

[Hadding]

The original 25 point party program of the NSDAP can be found here:
http://www4.stormfront.org/posterity/ns/25pts.html

Sieg Heil!\o

Hitler ended up compromising some of the points. He renounced the German claim to South Tyrol in order to facilitate an alliance with Italy.

In the USA, the only opportunities for an upstart political party to be elected are going to be on the state and local level, where a lot of the points in a detailed party platform are going to be excess baggage. It would be better to stick to the essentials instead of going into a lot of detail that can be attacked and which might have to be changed anyway if you even were lucky enough to gain control of the US Government.

Personally I think that NSM should give up the pretense that it is a political party. Upstart political parties are automatically regarded as unrealistic in the US, where the system is much less favorable than that under which the NSDAP started.

Special-interest and "activist" groups are common, and you can represent an extreme viewpoint as an activist without seeming totally unrealistic.

[Joe_J.]

[QUOTE=NIM Buster #666]I think you will find a better version here

http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/nsdap/docs/nsdap.html

look under Party Program


Thanks. Will do.

I grew up in a racist family and one thing is certain, they would not spit on a Nazi, their view being Hitler declared war on the USA, thus he and Nazism became the enemy.They went to war and fought and died fighting Nazis, and be damned if they were going to support them.

For my 2 cents every person who puts on his Nazi costume and parades around spits in the face of the US combat vet.

The WN will never succeed under the swastika, it does more harm than good.

Personally, I think that everyone that puts on a uniform or sports the Swastika spits in the face of a jew.

Yes, Hitler did declare war on the US. He blundered in allying himself with the Jap. Now, we can also open a can of worms about jew involvement in the war and the utter stupidity of Whites fighting other Whites.

Luckily, my family members were too old or too young to have served in WWII. Only one served in WWI in France. I won't discredit our vets, but both world wars were the handiwork of the jew and a waste of the lives of Whites, no matter what side they were on.

[MW88]

May I say don't talk to me and German NS kampfers about your US "combat vet", who fought for the Jews and Jew-Bolshevik untermensch against the resurgence of our people.

Idiot!

"US Combat vet" you were mislead, brainswashed fighting for the Jews and if you don't see that you are doomed. You combat vets now in Iraq are fighing for the Jews also. It makes me angry. My grandfather on the Eastern Front for so many months doing things that make us proud and some idiot here saying his sacrifice is not worthy?

He knew what the Jew-Bolsheviks wanted and did you know how much they attacked and raped the German women in 1945-1946? And my grandfather told of massacres of German SS by the Americans too. The Jews wanted the same thing then as now - destroy our people, as the reds say, by any means necessary?

National Socialism is a racial creed for us all. Forget the national and think Global White Resistance.

[Dietrich]

[QUOTE]
Now the jew is pushing the anti-union, "New World Order" side of the issue. They have made the union superflous by working around it. Unions don't even fit in the equation anymore. A company can simply move to China or Mexico where unions are not a concern.


The jew is now anti-union because it is now on the "management" side of the equation.

[Dietrich]

Hitler was a tad prissy in certain respects: no drinking, no smoking, no meat.


Not to re-fight relics of WWII, but the Roman Army conquered the world as vegetarians. Once, ~200BCE when food rations were low and only meat was available, the army nearly deserted until they were restocked with grains.

Drinking and smoking? Heck, the brain is a tree and it needs pruning.

Off to prune,

Theseus

[Dietrich]

The commies would crawl out of the woodwork and the crackhouses and try to stage their own revolution. It takes a careful hand...


I only chime in here because this is a subject on which I have done a little research.

Put quickly: the anarchists, nigs, communists, crackheads, etc are not a viable force in the event of political breakdown. The anarchists and communists will go with whomever is winning because in reality they are cowards.

The nigs? They are simply unable to mount and sustain the type of disciplined effort that is required in keeping a tempo of operations at a point where they are a viable threat. I did a few thought-experiments after reading CWII, and it is very hard to come up with a scenerio where blacks add up to anything approaching a viable fighting force. In the book, they have their own de facto nation, with artillery. Come now--giving niggers artillery is something you would do after popping popcorn so you could watch them kill themselves. And that is exactly what would happen. The African cult of the "Big Man" would give way to inter-tribal killing because he is too centralized and too easy to take out of the equation.

Ultimately, Whites have a shared sense of what "civilization" is, and after weeks of no media, touch-and-go communications, and the like, and all this mess is stripped away, that will be what unites a trucker from Oregon and an intellectual in Virginia. Blacks do not have this, and we all know it.

Beyond the odd gang here or there, the danger from this lot will be of spontaneous violence and intermittant sabotage. Don't let popular media fool you--these are the same people who you see in old movies going "I's sacaed!"

In summary, blacks aren't shit and we shouldn't automatically assume they're going to turn into some disciplined fighting force if someone takes their welfare checks away. Blacks will hide when they hear gunfire and will wait patiently to be found.

Yours,

Theseus

edit: I did not mean to come off so "over-authoritative" on that one. Sorry, I just got done with a huge job of analysis on a paper and I'm burned . . . out. I welcome comments, disagreements, mitigating circumstances I've left out, etc.

[Anchorage Activist]

* Enact segregation; dissolve all inter-racial marriages; re-criminalize race-mixing; sterilize mulattos; enact incentives to repatriate American blacks in Africa.

* End the US war in Iraq; support white nationalist movements in Europe and the general European liberation countries; focus foreign intervention on restoring Southern Africa to white rule and to resettle the black population of that part of the continent.

It would be nice to restore Southern Africa to white rule, but blacks now outnumber whites 15-1. It would also be a costly endeavour, and there's no guarantee a future generation of South Africa whites wouldn't piss it away again like the current generation did.

How about exchanging American blacks for South African whites? Make this as voluntary as possible. This could even go so far as a direct household-to-household exchange, in which all parties would have instant accomodation upon their arrival. In some cases, they could even directly exchange jobs. Can you imagine how a mere 10,000 South African whites could revitalize Detroit (assuming you got rid of the kaffirs)?

[centerfire]

Put quickly: the anarchists, nigs, communists, crackheads, etc are not a viable force in the event of political breakdown. The anarchists and communists will go with whomever is winning because in reality they are cowards.
I'm not so sure they'd switch sides. The fact that they are fighting on the side of political correctness in the age of political correctness and that they are fighting against the interests of their own people (referring strictly to the white ones) shows what cowards they are. Stupid cowards at that! The fuckers are politically correct revolutionaries! :rolleyes:

[Dietrich]

I'm not so sure they'd switch sides. The fact that they are fighting on the side of political correctness in the age of political correctness and that they are fighting against the interests of their own people (referring strictly to the white ones) shows what cowards they are. Stupid cowards at that! The fuckers are politically correct revolutionaries! :rolleyes:


They're against their own because it is an easier channel for their little emotions. Alex as alluded to this before, saying something like -- "Antis treat us like we're blowing the curve and causing black behavior."

They, on some level, know (for instance) that blacks are dangerous. They're too cowardly to call them on it because they're afraid. Indeed, the entire "Great Society" is just protection money, extracted from the upper and middle class by the elites to pay 'groids not to riot.

You are missing some key components of what makes a person worth a damn when fighting starts and I tell you--it is clear that American "commies" are insignifigant as a rabble. This would mean something if they were greater than ~60% total population, but they are not.

Notice a trend in the nature of political upheaval in the context of the nation-state: Intellectual movements "get the ball rolling," so to speak, but things only take off when the relatively pro-regime base of the populace bolts the mainstream. Commies know this. This is why they are elietist as hell but go on about "the workers." Communism, during this phase, is simply a rhetorical tool used by meglomaniacs to change regimes.

Now, ask yourself: Who are the political center of the American communist/anarchist rabble? They're the college wankers at the WTO rallies who will order a latte' at Star bucks on the way to a protest and will throw a brick through it's storefront on the way out. They're just punks who don't like to bathe. They couldn't survive without 100% working system services. They, as a whole, deplore guns and indeed appear to have an emotionally ingrained fear of them.

No, "Anarchy" and "communism" in the United States is a fashion statement rather than a force, and they will clean up quite well when it's fashionable/legal to point and laugh at their sorry asses.

[Alex Linder]

1.Sure the market may produce some "riches" and some wealth.But this is not the point.Left alone all of these "riches" and this wealth will go into the pockets of the few, namely the capitalist pigs.

These lies were stale 150 years ago. You resent that some have more than you. The fact is, even the poor are rich in capitalist society, and if they have anything on the ball, they don't stay poor long. You advocate a system that impovershes and controls everybody but the ruling elite - exactly what you claim you're against. You hate rich people because because you believe they didn't earn it. Usually that is not the case - most rich people worked a hell of a lot harder than most poor.


The working masses who practicaly produced this wealth will remain empty handed.Its logical then that the profits of the market have to be controlled at least to a point by the state.

Yes, that was the communist theory, but the workers en masse decided for capitalism - every single time it's been put to the test.


In the past,in the pre-Globalization era, the democratic state and the unions where primary responsible for the redistribution of this produced wealth so that the working masses would profit to a point from this.

Yes, and all that did was make sure there was less to go around, because the state would seize profits from producers.


Today,Globalization-era, the democratic state has proved corrupt and the unions unable to defend the "redistribution" rights of the working masses.

The corruption of the state lies precisely in its redistribution to the masses. The more dumb, brown people, the safer the ruling jew/white socialists. They steal from white producers and give to colored sponges.


2.Apart from all that,the national socialist state will also have to make sure that even the family-oriented business will not "produce wealth" by harming the "health" of the Volk.You named interracial sex for example.I could add tabaco,and enviroment-polluting industries etc. to it.


Polluting is an inevitable byproduct of indoor living. We all share in it, not a guilty minority. The market can solve pollution problems better than government.


Considering now points 1 and 2 how could a decentralized "small",weak and unbeaurocratic state handle these problems.This is ridiculous.
No! What is needed is a strong,all-powerfull,authoritarian,centralized National Socialist state.

Your religious faith in government is misplaced. Average people are capable of working out most of their problems. Government makes problems worse by trying to solve them.

[Alex Linder]

As a mere matter of opinion on what is now an irrelevant point, I disagree. Hitler's Germany only existed for twelve years. Still in its infancy and faced with all of the problems and opposition that entailed, its 'intrusiveness' was as necessary during its creation and establishment as is a mother's supervision of her baby in a jungle.

I agree with that, and have never said anything else.

What I'm advocating sounds contradictory, but isn't. First, we need an extremely strong central authority that can fix our racial problems and reground our state in bio-sanity. Then we reteach the population through the existing network of schools. But eventually and ideally, power is devolved as in Switzerland or as it was in these original confederated States.

The simple fact is that there will always be a dark side to white creativity and excessive intelligence: some portion of that will always turn against the greater good in the name of some perverse morality. But without jews around to channel it, and niggers around for social-engineering fodder, well, the mind-perverts will have to dream up new problems to cause. It will not be easy for them, because the jews won't be there controlling the media to celebrate them as artists and thinkers and heroes. Rather, they'll be seen for what they are, disturbed misfits. 98% of people are conservatives. 2% are disturbed. The 2% control the media because they have to. These theoretical problems in an all-White society are for my great great grandson to deal with; I must worry about mine, which is jews and the coloreds they're using to destroy our White race.

Things in the future may well be radically different from the way they are today. The conservatives, lazy cowards, taking one with another, laugh at the rationalists and utopians as well they should. They also laugh at science, but it is science that has given us the only true progress we've ever had. Now scientists, not jeboozers, are able to extend the life of tiny organisms 6x. That may be us tomorrow. Imagine someone with 80 years of stored wisdom, able to keep his body young and live to 300. Imagine men developing church-equivalents that taught strength in all forms rather than celebrating weakness and stupidity and believing things that aren't true, as Christianity does. There's much more to the coming world than dreamt of in Christian mythology.

From recent debate it's clear, at least to me, that many national socialists are as ignorant of economics as libertarians are ignorant of race. Libertarians have many genuine reforms awaiting only the power to make them law. A new White government could take advantage of old racial wisdom and new economic knowledge to create a lean and limited state protecting a racially solid people. That would be the most desirable future possible.


Even so, it moved ahead at a faster pace than did the burr-ocracy in America, for example.

One size doesn't fit all. Germans and Americans are both Aryans, but they're also different people. Germany is more like an extended family, whereas America contains a wider variety of different types. What is appropriate to Germany might not be appropriate in America. This is where I rely on men like Burke. You have to study the particulars of the circumstances and the situation - it is the opposite of the one-size-fits all French rationalism or jew-for-white Christian universalism.

I know what is good for America, and I know exactly how I would use executive power to change things. For Germany, the Germans must say.

[Alex Linder]

That's possible, but it's also from hindsight. It's easy for us to forget all that's involved in remaking a society. From everything I've read I conclude that they moved as fast as they were able to, under the conditions they faced.

"Don't tell me about the labor pains, show me the baby." The fact is that the vast majority of jews in Germany and Europe not only kept their lives but ended up with dictatorial control over Germany and Europe. By contrast, consider jews and jewish behavior. Lying and murder as far as the eye can see. Hitler wasn't nasty enough. That's plain fact.


Yes, that is an ideal, but you can't jump into it directly from the tar pit, as you know.

Well, see that's the thing about rounding people up and executing them. Itz so easy even government workers can do it.

[Alex Linder]

Hitler wanted to avoid a war, and a Bolshevik counter revolution.

If a white government takes power peacefully, it is to the disadvantage of all people for it to start a civil war by attempting the immediate massacre or mass displacement of millions. Such efforts will allow communists to recruit and organize and may very well lead to a civil war which it is always possible the communists could win.

I don't see a peaceful solution. The jews/commies/race-traitors should be, as they so delicately put it of us, "stamped out." It doesn't have to happen on camera, but it has to happen, and as quickly as possible. Then put Big Jew and top collaborators like O'Reilly and Hannity and Coulter on trial with them to expedite public education and awareness there's a new barn boss.


A white government that took power would be much better advised to move cautiously in building the new order, rather than moving abruptly against popular opposition and being overthrown.

Hitler realize this, thus the actions of the Third Reich.


It didn't work. Hitler's measured approached failed. The jews "kill 'em all and lie about it" succeeded.


This is one of the reasons I say people need more practical experience in building a political-social-cultural-economic movement. Such experience tends to eliminate the fantastic thinking behind "silver bullet" solutions.


If you're fumigating your house, you don't do it one room at a time. Of course people who've been brainwashed for 100 years aren't going to agree that jews are vermin. But they won't resist us tomorrow anymore than they resist jews today. And because they are brainwashed and the jews do hold all the amplifiers, a peaceful transfer of power is unthinkable.


Hitler had a deep respect for life

This is cant. It's like calling yourself "tolerant" or some other noble adjective. Hitler didn't respect the life of judeobolshiks. A predator refusing to eat prey is odd, to say the least. Our bowels are built for meat, to deny them makes no sense. Meat is more complex and tastier than vegetables, just as Aryans are more complex and tastier than mudmen.


and for himself, thus he did not kill animals unnecessarily, and he did not abuse his body with toxic substances.

Uh...yeah. Might want to ask Dr. Morell about that.


Those who obsess over the "freedom" to harm themselves or enage in vice show the weakness of their own characters.

Ah yes, good ol' get-in-your-traces-mule-and-enjoy-your-positive-freedom-plowing-my-garden.


How can a community-based government address issues of race? How can one give local autonomy to governing units that may decide "hey, this white power thing isn't so good after all? let's bring the niggers back."


It can't. That is where I would allow no disagreement. I'm frank about it. I don't believe white men should have the freedom to decide to mate with and live among niggers. There is no way for them to do that without destroying the kind of country I want to live in, and in any case, they deny me the freedom to segregate myself, so I see no reason to be more concerned with protecting their rights than they are mine. They dictate to us today; we dictate to them tomorrow.


And in order to avoid class struggle, the government must intervene in the economy to curb the excesses of the bourgeoisie and to drive the economy towards social, not private, interest.

Class struggle is a jewish concept. Of course there are always some straings, as some feel they don't get what they deserve. Life isn't fair. The state or church or some force must teach people to worry about themselves and leave other people alone. The message government must send is Singapore's: yes, i know you want to make money (selling drugs, making interracial porno, hiring mexicans at low rates), but we don't want you doing that. We feel so strongly about it, in fact, that we will execute you if you do.

That's all that has to be done. You show you mean business, Limbaugh & the Portly Chortlers will get the message real quick.

[Cthulhu]

Your religious faith in government is misplaced. Average people are capable of working out most of their problems. Government makes problems worse by trying to solve them.

Then are you suggesting government should be abolished? That is what it comes down to. A very unreasonable state of affairs.

You know how, when someone trys to pass a bill and some grub tacks an amendment to it so it you want one you gotta have the other?

That is how, through the purblindness of the left and right, the Jews get the ball rolling. You want social change? Here is the pound of flesh we require.

These lies were stale 150 years ago. You resent that some have more than you. The fact is, even the poor are rich in capitalist society, and if they have anything on the ball, they don't stay poor long. You advocate a system that impovershes and controls everybody but the ruling elite - exactly what you claim you're against. You hate rich people because because you believe they didn't earn it. Usually that is not the case - most rich people worked a hell of a lot harder than most poor.

I've never resented someone having more money than me, ever. Money just isn't that important to me; other things are, such as the health of my race. Fact is you are confusing a corporate free market society with a white society. Not only that, there have been times where a considerable amount of Whites have become poorer and poorer while the rich did get richer. I think they call that the economic cycle :) In fact, you seem to be living on the cusp of such times now. Is it because business is in bed with an expanded government? In that case the idea of limiting the government is a go around for limiting the power of certain monied individuals and organizations.

You advocate a system that impovershes and controls everybody but the ruling elite - exactly what you claim you're against.

You know nothing about NS. Look at the results of the first six years of NS rule in Germany and show me where this happened. It didn't. Meanwhile, at the same time in the US...

And you can talk about the fifties, after government programs like the GI bill had been introduced, and after the government had successfully waged a war for spoils. Fat as a hog on the blood of its racial kin. Kudos. Planning a repeat performance?

Yes, that was the communist theory, but the workers en masse decided for capitalism - every single time it's been put to the test.

In NS theory the working masses include, scientists, entrepreneurs, etc., but not usurers. That is the NS "muscle and brain" combine. Fair competition is encouraged in business, but not to the detriment of future generations, by, for example, selling advanced methods of production to third world countries, like China where the "competition" will help impoverish the workers back home. Conservative advocates will discry this as holding back innovation etc., liberals as racist, and a crime against the poor in China. Fuck them, and fuck any slappy who thinks some mist covered mountain top ideal is more important than their people.

I think, "the democratic state and the unions where primary responsible for the redistribution of this produced wealth so that the working masses would profit to a point from this" was a precursor to this: "Today,Globalization-era, the democratic state has proved corrupt and the unions unable to defend the "redistribution" rights of the working masses." Which is what NS forsaw and to which it gave and gives an alternative.

Polluting is an inevitable byproduct of indoor living. We all share in it, not a guilty minority. The market can solve pollution problems better than government.

What is the market's reason for doing so? What is the market's reason? What should be the purpose of market? What should be the purpose of the government? What should be the purpose of the people?

Don't mistake the government for the people. Don't mistake the market for the people. Both are grevious errors.

"Yes," he replied, "but we must understand what Christ meant by 'enemy.' We can love an honorable and decent enemy, even a brutal one, who is frank and forthright in his enmity. And at the same time we can beware of him. But Christ never dreamed that we should love men whom no love whatever could dissuade from their implacable determination to poison us, body and soul. Indeed, he himself did not do that. On the contrary, he continued to strike with his whip as hard as he could. And the words that he flung with indignation into the faces of the rabble breathed of irreconcilability itself. To me, he acted very proudly in the founding of his religion: there was very little contradiction between his sermons and his deeds! Why, then, have the 'pious' never followed his example? They least of all. They mercilessly persecute even their decent adversaries -- as a matter of fact, only their decent adversaries. Their eyes remain closed to the most cunning bunch of swindlers in existence. The Bavarian People's Party, for instance, knows quite well that we are defending the Christian foundations of our nation without mental reservations. They also know, however, that we can make no common cause with them as long as they adhere to their present policies. And so they turned to the Jews, hoping to remain in power with their help. They surprised themselves. Dripping with friendliness at first, the Jews turned on them murderously when they had gotten the upper hand."

"That was inevitable," I agreed with him. "Fortunately, the Jews would not be able to provide us with that same sort of dreadful experience, for we do not betray and murder our own flesh and blood for the sales of profit. So far as we are concerned, the Bavarian People's party could even remain in office, provided they clean the manure out of they pigsty and perceive the correctness of our views. We are not willing to tear ourselves apart just for power. But we want Germanism, we want genuine Christianity, we want order and propriety, and we want these things so firmly established that our children and grandchildren can remain satisfied with them."

"They consider that impossible," he said, "and therefore they consider our program nothing but empty phrases, of no more sincerity than the empty phrases with which they consciously try to peddle themselves to the people. But our goals are not only possible, they are certain, even if we don't attain them tomorrow. But first a beginning must be made. So far, never and nowhere has there been a truly social state. Everywhere and always the upper crust has leaned much more strongly to the principle, 'what is yours, is mine,' than to, 'what is mine, is yours.' These wise ones have only themselves to blame for the fact the lower stratum, full of rage, now is committing the same error. The Jew is able to take advantage of both these groups. One of them provides for his affairs, the other carries them out. Therefore, we oppose them both. We will put an end to unfair privileges as well as to slavery."

"Decidedly," I replied. "Our front stands against both left and right. A strange situation; from two directions we must ward off attackers who also fight one another. The Reds scream at us as reactionaries, and to the reactionaries we are Bolsheviks. From both sides the Jew directs the attack on us. The lower stratum doesn't see him yet and, thus, hates us from sheer stupidity; the upper stratum sees him but thinks it can serve its own selfish purposes with him and thus, shoots us in the back more from unscrupulousness than stupidity. One really needs a good deal of faith under such circumstances in order to maintain one's courage."

"Which we have, God be thanked, in a hundred ways," he said, laughing, as he stretched himself. "No words were spoken more directly to our hearts than 'Be not afraid'! (Matthew 28:10) And that was supposed to have been said by a Jew? Those creatures of eternal fear? Crazy!"

-- Bolshevism from Moses to Lenin


Eventually you are going to have to create a synthisis out of your earlier conservative beliefs and your new found racialist beliefs. You haven't done so yet, and skirt around the issue of doing so. That is why there is a certain foggyness and indirectness to everything you say except when you lean heavily to one side or the other. Sooner or later you are going to have to find an equlibrium. THEN IT WILL BE A CLEAR AND SIMPLE IDEA. At the moment, the pretense to simplicity is an excuse for putting off forming a workable synthisis. And without that synthesis you will have no political traction. Don't try and fly with one wing at a time.

Come on Linder, amaze me.

[Alex Linder]

Well, I guess my calls to JP to write this are superfluous since someone else got to it first.

6. free, universal quality education, primary through university level, stressing excellence, practical knowledge, and love of wisdom.

Yes, guys who can't dress and don't do grammar are going to guarantee "free, universal" health care and quality education.

Why not "guarantee" perpetual orgasms too?

[Hadding]

Uh...yeah. Might want to ask Dr. Morell about that.


I saw a program on that awful History Channel called High Hitler, and they made a big deal about the fact that when Hitler was feeling sluggish he would get an injection from Dr. Morell of a mysterious substance called vitamultin, and Hitler would immediately pep up. Clearly vitamultin was some kind of powerful drug, right?

Well guess what? Vitamultin is the brandname of a multivitamin. All the people who made that stupid documentary had to do was an internet search to find out that there was nothing sinister in Vitamultin.

[Alex Linder]

Actually, DTZ, the NSM provides the perfect foil for what I'm talking about. Instead of this horseshit utopianism that an intelligent third-grader could see through, we have a chance to corral and make a powerful clydesdale team of the smart guys who understand economics and the smart guys who understand race. That beats swazi slob socialism any day of the year.

[14]

I have no doubt that National Socialism will succeed in America. Afterall, who in their right mind could possibly doubt that the number one torch-bearers of NS - the National Socialist Movement (shown below) - have the capability of running our government, our economy, and our society?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/ihn4f/kkk11903b.jpg



.

[Alex Linder]

Maybe fifty years ago this was the situation. In large corporate Amerikwa today, conformity and passivity, especially with regards to White males, are demanded. The corporate structure operates exactly in a Jew prescribed fashion. It is multi-cultural, effeminate, even matriarchal in its nature and operation. Any sign of masculinity on the part of a White Male is viewed as a threat by the corporate matriarchy. It is a highly controlled artificial environment in which women and minorities are elevated above White Males. There is no malfeasance on the part of women and minorities that won't be tolerated. As in all things Jewed and multi-culturalized in Amerikwa today, those artificially elevated on some level are aware that if White Males ever assert themselves their little party will be over. White men exist only to serve women and minorities. They are constantly under the microscope for any sign of non-compliance. White men that do rise in the company are only the most conformist, obsequious, effeminate and unprincipled fops in Amerikwa today.

I'm aware that PC/SC is worse than ever, particularly in the Fortune 500. ZOG forces business to subsidize coloreds/jews/women, while allowing it to make enough profits to keep getting up in the morning. The white man needs three shoulders for the extra burden, but they keep it just light enough that he won't revolt.

My point is not that business is free of cultural policing by SC commissars, but that it's still freer than academia, which is jew-mud-wimmin-fag-lib across the board.

Most people work for small businesses, not large ones, and they retain a good deal of freedom and flexibility.

[Alex Linder]

Academia = whiners, spongers, passives who think their worthless opinions are highly valuable. All they do is whine to the state legislature for more money.

[Alex Linder]

Then are you suggesting government should be abolished? That is what it comes down to. A very unreasonable state of affairs.

No, I'm actually a hyparchist. I believe there should be nothing outside government, nothing beyond government, nothing BUT government. All we have to do is create a Departmen of Sexual Satisfaction, guaranteeing perpetual orgasms for all citizens, regardless of age, sex, or genital condition.


I've never resented someone having more money than me, ever. Money just isn't that important to me; other things are, such as the health of my race. Fact is you are confusing a corporate free market society with a white society.

Ever see government workers (pols) take on big business? All the time. Ever see government take on jews? Never. That shows you where the real power lies. The systematics have made billions attacking Big Tobacco, demonstrating that mere corporate size does not confer power. No one takes on Big Jew. Ding! Ding! Hear the epiphany bell ring!


Not only that, there have been times where a considerable amount of Whites have become poorer and poorer while the rich did get richer. I think they call that the economic cycle :) In fact, you seem to be living on the cusp of such times now. Is it because business is in bed with an expanded government? In that case the idea of limiting the government is a go around for limiting the power of certain monied individuals and organizations.


There is no real solution, as the incentives to leech off the people always exist, whether or not the government is run by Whites or jews. Nothing can change the incentives as they lie in our nature and hearts. What can change is that the jews controlling our government and using it to genocide our race can be stopped.


You know nothing about NS. Look at the results of the first six years of NS rule in Germany and show me where this happened. It didn't. Meanwhile, at the same time in the US...

I was referring to the USSR.


And you can talk about the fifties, after government programs like the GI bill had been introduced, and after the government had successfully waged a war for spoils. Fat as a hog on the blood of its racial kin. Kudos. Planning a repeat performance?

Before the GI bill, we had low taxes and highly intelligent people in ordinary service jobs. Now we have high taxes and fucking morons and non-English-speakers in these jobs, and college is a joke because 90% of those attending it aren't qualified for college material. I like the old way better.


In NS theory the working masses include, scientists, entrepreneurs, etc., but not usurers. That is the NS "muscle and brain" combine. Fair competition is encouraged in business, but not to the detriment of future generations, by, for example, selling advanced methods of production to third world countries, like China where the "competition" will help impoverish the workers back home. Conservative advocates will discry this as holding back innovation etc., liberals as racist, and a crime against the poor in China. Fuck them, and fuck any slappy who thinks some mist covered mountain top ideal is more important than their people.

I don't think all conservatives think that way. More might today, as conservatism has been taken over by jews. But if one accepts groups as valid, as well as individuals, then the rest follows. Remember, though, it's the jews like Bernie at Loral who sell our high-tech to China.

Racially and culturally constrained market economies is the right way to go. The racial part is easy; the cultural part is more difficult.


What is the market's reason for doing so? What is the market's reason? What should be the purpose of market? What should be the purpose of the government? What should be the purpose of the people?

The people doesn't need a purpose. People have their own purposes. A racial government can preserve the context in which they can pursue their arts and sciences. "To the stars" - nah, you go to the stars, twinky, I'm staying right here on terra firma. The desire of some of these clowns for a Strong Man to sweep our race off its feet onto his horse and carry us off to his castle in the stars -- positively homosexual, itz.

Our race will not be saved, per Dukie, by its beauty and creativity, it will be saved, if it is, by snide laughter and spilled blood. "Faith in a cause is a substitute for lost faith in oneself" - if that applies to you reading this, you don't belong in White nationalism.


Eventually you are going to have to create a synthisis out of your earlier conservative beliefs and your new found racialist beliefs. You haven't done so yet, and skirt around the issue of doing so. That is why there is a certain foggyness and indirectness to everything you say except when you lean heavily to one side or the other. Sooner or later you are going to have to find an equlibrium. THEN IT WILL BE A CLEAR AND SIMPLE IDEA.

Not everything can be clear and simple. I believe I've laid out my ideas so that people can understand them, and accept or reject as they see fit.

The focus must be on the jew, above all else. When the jew is out of the way, the rest won't take care of itself, but the main problem will be solved. Whites can sort out the degree to which they want loser-socialism. I prefer a system in which the central authority is weak, and in which there are all kinds of small states, and in which the people are misanthropic, private, and heavily armed, and highly learned, and chock full of funny sayings. I prefer a system in which the people over there are different from the people here. It gives me more to laugh at, appreciate, hate, and think about. I want a White society because I like diversity. But that's me. There will always be a segment of Whites voting the straight Perpetual Orgasm Party ticket.

Amaze you?

Try this: government is not responsible for your failures - you are.

Government is gang. Government kills people, or harasses them to cough up money. That's all it does or can do.

Of the WNN I have met outside of a segment of VNN, I wouldn't put them in charge of running a McDonald's.

Not ready for prime time? Hell, folks. We ain't ready for Second City. We're not even up to Kids in the Hall level yet.

[Cthulhu]

YOU are not ready for it yet. Nor will you ever be because it will always be some excuse.

Try this: government is not responsible for your failures - you are.

-- followed by --

Government is gang. Government kills people, or harasses them to cough up money. That's all it does or can do.

:confused:

But anyhooo...

So all you can offer people if you and yours become the government is to kill, harass or rob them?

Who is going to buy that? No one.

The people doesn't need a purpose. People have their own purposes. A racial government can preserve the context in which they can pursue their arts and sciences. "To the stars" - nah, you go to the stars, twinky, I'm staying right here on terra firma. The desire of some of these clowns for a Strong Man to sweep our race off its feet onto his horse and carry us off to his castle in the stars -- positively homosexual, itz.

Our race will not be saved, per Dukie, by its beauty and creativity, it will be saved, if it is, by snide laughter and spilled blood. "Faith in a cause is a substitute for lost faith in oneself" - if that applies to you reading this, you don't belong in White nationalism.

Wrong context, the first goal of a people is to perpetuate itself. That is nature's law. If this is not the root of its purpose it will die. And good way of skirting around the other questions...

You have nothing to offer. Your first rambling diatribe, shows that you have no idea of what you are going to do. Free markets, but government controls, this but that, with 'this' and 'that' to be filled out later. Or you might ramblingly fill them in now in accordance with what you had for dinner last night but always ganishing it with it doesn't matter as long as we get rid of the Jews. If it doesn't matter to you, I doubt it is going to matter to anybody else.

But you have to find a way to do that don't you, getting rid of the Jews, without it being a phyrric victory. "No, because the ways and means don't matter, only getting rid of the Jews," if you will allow me to simplify the reponse I seem to be receiving. Without the ways and means you won't get rid of them. And those ways and means include getting people on board by addressing their concerns, not only about blacks, and mexicans (the Jews can do that as well), but addressing social concerns. And all you can offer them is to be killed, harassed or robbed by you?

But you are right: its nearing the bottom of the ninth and you're not even up to Kids in the Hall level yet. Whose fault is that?

[Cthulhu]

The German Folk-Community Spirit Survived the War

Here is an example: The postwar Ruhr district was a huge heap of rubble as the English took away its remaining undamaged machinery to England as reparations. As you know, the Soviets did the same.

A general strike was called by the newly established union to prevent the removal of a large 10,000 ton forging press. This was the biggest press in the world and it could have brought us economic advantages. I would also like to add that the union leader still thought as a German. This matter concerned the preservation of remaining jobs and the preservation of our people. This rally also found representatives of the Ruhr business in attendance. After the many fighting speeches had been made by the union side, a businessman asked to speak. He declared: “Let them take the old thing. We used it to make our entire war production. We shall build new ones that are bigger and better!” At one stroke came the determined decision: “Yes, yes, yes!” was the answer. He had said the magic words. The old spirit of the folk-community was still alive and discoverable!

In National Socialism the Workers and Employers Formed a United Front Against the Combined Enemies of Capitalism and Communism

The English took the old press to England, where it surely sits today. We young engineers of that time took these words to heart and subsequently constructed and built the most modern presses which gave us many production advantages over England and the other victor states, and brought about West Germany’s great rise to prosperity. England still had production facilities which were decades obsolete, as the norm for its industries. Over there, factories still had long driveshafts from which transmission belts drove the individual machines. In Germany, we had already been using modern electric-powered machines, which is proven to be a great technical advantage; The English auto firms overtaken by the Germans, also bear witness today to the inefficiency of English businesses, which is also a source of the capitalist English hatred of the efficient Germans.

In World War II, Almost the Entire World was Called Upon to Beat Down the Diligent, Brave Germans in a Long, Forced War

Under Hitler, National Socialism emphasized the principle, as stated already, that workers and employers belong together as a united entity and they were not to be agitated nor played off against one another, contrary to the capitalist system of today.

During the course of my career, I have had to consider always this decisively correct and important concept. What can an employer do with ever so good inventions and developments, if he has no workers in his shop to produce them? Nothing! And vice versa: what can a very good worker do, if he has no employer whose business decisions can provide him with modern technology? Nothing!

The principle is that those who work with their heads and their hands, united with nationally-conscious employers, belong together as a team. This political principle, combined with our retreat from the capitalist gold standard, delivered us from the hopelessness and harm inflicted by the Versailles Dictate. Germany under Hitler was no longer the World War I victors’ object of plunder.

That was Hitler’s concept of folk community which is reviled and unheeded today. There is no remaining national consciousness in today’s politicians, or better said, today’s capitalist vassals. “Economic development through more mergers” are today’s magic words. Foreign capitalists now decide upon the elimination of German jobs. The playing off of workers against employers and vice versa within the folk community is the foremost principle of today’s pseudo-democratic capitalist system. Today we see many negative examples in the economy where this has occurred. The German worker has finally become the football of foreign economic interests.

-- http://www.johmann.net/commentary/national-socialist-germany.html

It is all about people, our people.

[alex]

I believe that this and silimilar threads have been an eye opener.An eye opener as to what Alex Linder truly believes in and how competent he is.Needles to say that with that views he has no leadership qualities whatsoever.
When i first came into this forum,people would remark that "Herr Linder has libertarian views".
I thought to myself:"Well ok,he will believe as an American in the usual "the constitution",free speech and other idiotic things".But it would never cross my mind back then that an outspoken racist and antisemite would follow and actually believe the nonsense of the libertarian socio-economic worldview.If i'm allowed to say this... he is a capitalist stooge.That means that he is a reactionery and outright dangerous for our cause.
I remember back then i would critisize vnn because it had nothing else to offer than the usual jew and non-white flaming.I would critisize the fact that vnn never adresses the social problems of white people and eventualy its root,namely capitalism.
Knowing Alex Linder's views now i am actually thankful that he never expressed himself so freely on these topics on the vnn mainpage and his tabloid paper TAA.By god, can you imagine how counterproductive and harmful he would be if ever he expressed his socio-economic views in public?No Herr Linder should stay at the jew-barking.At the very best he will become another Julius Streicher: put in a closet and put out of the closet from time to time to bark at the jews a little and than quickly put back into the closet.
Its not even the hilarious misconceptions(market=people?) and the utter ignorance of the world's social reality today and in the past,but also his ignorance on National Socialism which is a Third Way beyond Communism and Capitalism.A Third Way that will not be achieved by playing the capitalist stooge,but by attacking capitalism.Attacking it viciously.

[Dietrich]

At the very best he will become another Julius Streicher: put in a closet and put out of the closet from time to time to bark at the jews a little and than quickly put back into the closet.
.


If I were to put on my jew-hat, I would say that you're projecting.

It is the Nazis who should be "stowed" until we need an undisciplined rabble. It is a needed element, just not right now.

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

I believe that this and silimilar threads have been an eye opener.An eye opener as to what Alex Linder truly believes in and how competent he is.Needles to say that with that views he has no leadership qualities whatsoever.
When i first came into this forum,people would remark that "Herr Linder has libertarian views".
I thought to myself:"Well ok,he will believe as an American in the usual "the constitution",free speech and other idiotic things".But it would never cross my mind back then that an outspoken racist and antisemite would follow and actually believe the nonsense of the libertarian socio-economic worldview.If i'm allowed to say this... he is a capitalist stooge.That means that he is a reactionery and outright dangerous for our cause.
I remember back then i would critisize vnn because it had nothing else to offer than the usual jew and non-white flaming.I would critisize the fact that vnn never adresses the social problems of white people and eventualy its root,namely capitalism.
Knowing Alex Linder's views now i am actually thankful that he never expressed himself so freely on these topics on the vnn mainpage and his tabloid paper TAA.By god, can you imagine how counterproductive and harmful he would be if ever he expressed his socio-economic views in public?No Herr Linder should stay at the jew-barking.At the very best he will become another Julius Streicher: put in a closet and put out of the closet from time to time to bark at the jews a little and than quickly put back into the closet.
Its not even the hilarious misconceptions(market=people?) and the utter ignorance of the world's social reality today and in the past,but also his ignorance on National Socialism which is a Third Way beyond Communism and Capitalism.A Third Way that will not be achieved by playing the capitalist stooge,but by attacking capitalism.Attacking it viciously.

Phew! That's a mouthful from our German friend. Alex, settle down. There's plenty of room for a reasonable discussion of economics here without resort to all the stringent Strasserite rhetoric. Also, how does it follow from his disagreement with you on socialism, that he 'has no leadership qualities whatsoever?" I would kindly suggest to you that you avoid what we call in English "hyperbole."

[alex]

You are correct.After reading it again,i think it comes as a bit offensive.This was not inteted.Lets say my english is a bit tactless and i wrote that post while in hurry.
Anyway one shouldnt lose hope and maybe Herr Linder widens his horizons by studying socialism and capitalism with a more open mind.
And while we are at it,why not an "Economics" subforum?

P.S. A nature subforum would be good too,where one can disuss "greenie" issues and topics.I have two articles about globalization--->social injustice--->enviroment pollution in India and China which i wanted to post,but really doesnt fit in any of the subforums.

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

You are correct.After reading it again,i think it comes as a bit offensive.This was not inteted.Lets say my english is a bit tactless and i wrote that post while in hurry.
Anyway one shouldnt lose hope and maybe Herr Linder widens his horizons by studying socialism and capitalism with a more open mind.
And while we are at it,why not an "Economics" subforum?

P.S. A nature subforum would be good too,where one can disuss "greenie" issues and topics.I have two articles about globalization--->social injustice--->enviroment pollution in India and China which i wanted to post,but really doesnt fit in any of the subforums.

Why not just post them in general discussion? I'd discuss these topics more often if people seemed interested.

As for your English, I think it's coming along well. You've improved since you started. Moreover, Americans always find Germans terse and abrupt. VNN's a place where that characteristic German "Frankness" is not a problem Alex. Say what you have to say!

[Dietrich]

Moreover, Americans always find Germans terse and abrupt.


Is that why I'm like that?