Alex Linder
August 10th, 2007, 08:48 PM
In case I forgot when I sent the last email to attach
this transcript which the weird Francis Dunne of the
Limerick Blogger typed up.
I would like to mass distribute my own recordings but
totally lack all resources.
There may or may not be the human material on this
island to make a viable group .
Before I could go on TV and really get known I would
need more than I have .
If I had even a car I think I could raise funds in
rural areas here. When even the most basic things are
lacking one wonders what to do .
Some of my Polish friends are thinking of applying for
those business startup grants that we only see handed
to foreigners. This is something we are looking into.
Claire Byrne: Now new CSO figures show that ten
percent of the Irish population are foreign nationals.
Officially we have 63,000 Poles, 52,000 Asians and
35,000 Africans in the country, and Ireland is fast
becoming a diverse and multicultural society. But our
reporter Niell Brennan witnessed the other side to
Ireland's multiculturalism when he went canvassing in
Limerick with a new extreme right-wing group whose
mission is apparently to "save Ireland." Good morning
Niell.
Niell Brennan: Good morning Claire
Claire Byrne: Thanks for joining us. Who are the
Movement to Save Ireland, this group that you have
been speaking to?
Niell Brennan: Well, we first discovered the Movement
to Save Ireland, it's an online blog, but, they set up
about a year ago, but at the moment they are looking
to make it a very much political group. Brian Wallace
would be the main organiser behind the group. They are
operating out of Limerick, he is originally from Cork
himself, comes from a scientific background having
studied at UCD. He is now a full time activist. We
went down to Limerick to meet up with him to see what
the group gets up to. At the moment its very much at
the early stages. They are delivering posters and
leaflets around the city, looking for to drum up some
support, but he says support is growing and this lead
to a complaint made against them [to] the Gardai and
subsequent raid.
RECORDING
Brian Wallace: I came home at five o'clock and saw a
Garda van around the corner so I said "ah nothing" and
I walked up to my door, and as soon as I go in the
door, the Guards come up, they come in, search
warrant, and they come in and talk to me in the
kitchen for a while, and then they go in and they kick
in the door to my bedroom and they take my computer
and other things they find. [Recording is edited here]
I feel like the individual Gardai don't believe in the
system either though but they're stuck in it 'cos
they're to get their promotions or whatever so they
just go along [with] whoever is paying their wages,
you know? They- I feel they would prefer to have me as
their boss than Bertie, you know?
RECORDING ENDS
Claire Byrne: OK, that's a fairly wild assumption
there. We're going to be speaking to Superintendent
Kevin O'Donoghue who is head of Garda Press and
Publisity in just a couple of moments in relation to
that particular situation and also to the wider issue
I suppose of these groups and whether they are
something they are keeping an eye on in the Ireland of
today. Now, coming back to the Movement to Save
Ireland and Brian Wallace and the people who support
him, what exactly do they believe, and who are they
targeting when they are looking for support?
Niell Brennan: Sure, well, what they would say is they
are against mass immigration. They want to protect
Irish culture and Western culture in general. So it
would be very much- They are against the
islamification as they call it, of Ireland, they would
be against immigration that wouldn't come from
European backgrounds. They would say that the
immigrants themselves are tools of the system that is
trying to oppress Irish people, and kind of take away
from the native culture that is here. Now, they are
very careful, they are very media savy. They talk of
undesirables coming into the country without ever
really directly saying who they are referring to.
Their- Instead they talk in abstract terms about the
system, about elites, very very media savvy. We went
out handing out-
Claire Byrne: Hang on a second, because we have to be
careful here because these people aren't talking about
having a controlled immigration system whereby we
don't let people in who perhaps have a criminal
conviction in another. Are you absolutely certain that
this is a white supremacist group,which is what I
think you are saying to me they are?
Niell Brennan: It is, very much so but they are very
careful how they say it, they couch it in very careful
terms, but they are very much in favour of a native
Irish population, of what he calls a background level
of immigration, but the controls he is asking for
would be very very strict, basically he is against any
kind of immigration that isn't white.
Claire Byrne: OK, lets have a listen to how they got
on I think you were out canvassing with him, weren't
you?
Niell Brennan: We went out handing leaflets in
Southill, now as we know, Southill would be a
disadvantaged area in Limerick and it's very much one
of the areas they're targeting. They believe that this
could be a core area for support. Most people we
bumped into ignored them or were polite and took the
leaflets, looked at them, but they were leaving stuff
in shops and places like that, but as we will hear
from the next clip, there was some support for them
RECORDING
Southill Resident : What are ye?
Brian Wallace: The Movement to Save Ireland. Have you
seen our stuff around?
Southill Resident: I haven't actually no
Brian Wallace: Basically we are just getting our group
going you know, doing a bit of recruitment like.
Southill Resident: Ye just want all Irish here is it?
Brian Wallace: Well
Southill Resident: Like myself
Brian Wallace: We don't want mass immigration like
Southill Resident: No, no, no, no, I totally agree
with ye.
Brian Wallace: And we were raided by the Guards and
everything because this Jewish one in Dublin didn't
like my stuff
Southill ResidentDid she? yeah yeah, now, as the old
saying was, the only mistake Hitler made was he didn't
kill all the Jews.
Brian wallace laughs
RECORDING ENDS
Claire Byrne: Ok so that was one person who was
canvassed by this Movement to Save Ireland but Niell I
suppose I would have to say that as you said earlier
on most people were polite to them but weren't
interested.
Niell Brennan: Yeah exactly but there was a minority
who would have picked up the leaflets, would have
looked at them, would have agreed and would have told
Brian that even if it came to an election they would
vote for a party along similar lines to these guys.
Claire Byrne: OK, now they are also canvassing in
another very interesting area and they are targeting
the Eastern European population. What's the connection
there because you would imagine if they wanted a
native Irish population that would include ruling out
the Eastern Europeans?
Niell Brennan: Sure, well this is where the idea of
the western culture comes in as they put it. The MSI
is very busy canvassing for support from the Eastern
European immigrants, now, what they are basically
doing at this stage is, is just looking for as much
support as possible, so they are targeting the Polish
community, now they say a lot of Poles are right-wing
and would agree about the need to preserve this
western culture that they speak of. So that is where
they are getting a lot of support at the moment, and
there have been a number of incidents where Poles have
been involved in a number of racist attacks, and
graffiti attacks and things like that. We went to
leave some leaflets in a church, and we stopped
outside a Polish shop where some of the staff support
the group and Brian explained to me where their
support is coming from.
RECORDING
Brian Wallace: We're just leaving our bilingual
leaflets inside in the shop like, just to- you know-
as part of our outreach to the Polish community like
you know. At the end of the day, our fate will be the
same as theirs in as much as we're all Europeans and
If Ireland goes down, and Poland goes down, we'll all
go down like.
RECORDING ENDS
Claire Byrne: Now one of the things you felt most
disturbing about the time you spent with Brian Wallace
and his Movement to Save Ireland and the theory behind
it was his opinion in relation to the holocaust and
Jewish people.
Niell Brennan: Sure and again it is important to say
that Brian is very media savvy. He is aware of how as
he would say it, the media could twist things against
him. but the most troubling aspect would be his view
on what he called Zionists. Zionism was a movement to
set up Israel in the 19th Century It's now viewed as a
conspiracy. It is a term these right-wing groups use.
It could be viewed as anti-semetic in many cases.
Brian is careful not to say Jews. He is aware of the
negative response that could spark to the group. But I
asked him several times for his views on the
holocaust, now he wouldn't give me a direct answer but
he did refer to the holocaust as a myth and a story
and later on he told me it was what he described as a
money spinner.
RECORDING
Brian Wallace: The media describes that some lives are
valuable and some lives are not valuable you know, it
makes propeganda. It's been a big money spinner for
some states you know. The eh
Niell Brennan: The Holocaust?
Brian Wallace: Yeah, for example it is out of your
pocket this money comes from, the German are paying
billions every year, that must damage the entire
European Union's economy. Why should we pay for this
monster state of Israel which is responsible for so
much of the ecstasy manufactured, so much of the child
pornography, which is a state of pure evil which needs
to be confronted like
RECORDING ENDS
Claire Byrne: All right, that is Brian Wallace of the
Movement to Save Ireland, our text number is 53106 at
a cost of 30 cent if you want to get in touch to
comment on what the Movement to Save Ireland are
saying it's 8:15 I am joined in studio by Niell
Brennan our reporter who was in Limerick canvassing
with Brian Wallase and the organisation, Movement to
Save Ireland, now as I mentioned earlier, the movement
came from a blog which was set up a number of years
ago. Tell us about that and how it works.
Niell Brennan: Yeah the blog was set up about a year
ago, now online is where these groups are active at
the moment, now if you talk to people they will tell
you there is not really a problem, but they are very
active online, and the MSI would be the most public of
these groups and they would blog every so often, every
week, every month maybe on issues that might arrest
their attention. but there are other groups like
Stormfront which is very active. It doesn't seem to
have crossed over to actual violence so far but posted
on this site- the stormfront forum are the contact
details of those who- to put it mildly hold opposing
views to these right-wing groups. So these would be
left-wing groups, anti racism spokespeople, and we
have been speaking to some of them over the past 24
hours and and alot of them have received messages,
letters, emails that are abusive, that are
threatening, that are intimidating, one saying AIDS is
the best thing to happen since Hitler, so that kind of
line, really offensive stuff. Some refused to come on
the show for fear of making themselves targets,
marking themselves out to these groups, and I've now
been identified on the sites as well, so we will see
what happens in that regard.
Claire Byrne : OK Niell, thanks for bringing us that
story this morning. Let's go to our phone line now
because we are joined by Superintendent Kevin
Donoghue, Good morning to you Superintendent.
Kevin Donoghue: Good morning claire
Claire Byrne Thanks for joining us, This guy Brian
Wallace mentioned there to a number of people he was
canvassing in Southill in Limerick that his computer
had been seized by Gardai, what information do you
have in relation to that?
Kevin Donoghue: Well, I think Claire, in keeping with
our normal policy we try not to comment on specific
individual cases, but I can tell you that we did
receive a complaint some time ago culminating in an
investigation in the middle of June where we made an
arrest and seized some property, and in that regard, a
file is currently with the Director of Public
Prosecution. I suppose our key law in this case is the
Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act which is on
the statute books since 1989 and while everybody has a
democratic right to assemble lobby groups or political
parties or whatever, they must do so within the law.
And within that Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred
Act, you cannot publish or distribute material whether
it's written or it's video images or recordings that's
insulting abusive or threatening and in all it's
circumstances is likely to stir up hatred.
Claire Byrne: What's the Garda policy on this stuff,
do you have to wait for a complaint to come to you
before you act or are you actively monitoring the
potential i suppose of racially motivated crime in
this country?
Kevin Donoghue: I suppose like in a lot of things we
can take action in two regards, first of all if we
have a complaint, which we had in one specific case
and that- I won't say makes it easier but is one
avenue we can go down. But obviously, the Garda
Siochana like most police services throughout the
world, not only provide the policing service to the
country but are also responsible for state security.
So, certainly from a state security point of view, we
would monitor through various units, the activity of
groups whose aims might affect state security or whose
aims are to undermine the workings of democratic society.
this transcript which the weird Francis Dunne of the
Limerick Blogger typed up.
I would like to mass distribute my own recordings but
totally lack all resources.
There may or may not be the human material on this
island to make a viable group .
Before I could go on TV and really get known I would
need more than I have .
If I had even a car I think I could raise funds in
rural areas here. When even the most basic things are
lacking one wonders what to do .
Some of my Polish friends are thinking of applying for
those business startup grants that we only see handed
to foreigners. This is something we are looking into.
Claire Byrne: Now new CSO figures show that ten
percent of the Irish population are foreign nationals.
Officially we have 63,000 Poles, 52,000 Asians and
35,000 Africans in the country, and Ireland is fast
becoming a diverse and multicultural society. But our
reporter Niell Brennan witnessed the other side to
Ireland's multiculturalism when he went canvassing in
Limerick with a new extreme right-wing group whose
mission is apparently to "save Ireland." Good morning
Niell.
Niell Brennan: Good morning Claire
Claire Byrne: Thanks for joining us. Who are the
Movement to Save Ireland, this group that you have
been speaking to?
Niell Brennan: Well, we first discovered the Movement
to Save Ireland, it's an online blog, but, they set up
about a year ago, but at the moment they are looking
to make it a very much political group. Brian Wallace
would be the main organiser behind the group. They are
operating out of Limerick, he is originally from Cork
himself, comes from a scientific background having
studied at UCD. He is now a full time activist. We
went down to Limerick to meet up with him to see what
the group gets up to. At the moment its very much at
the early stages. They are delivering posters and
leaflets around the city, looking for to drum up some
support, but he says support is growing and this lead
to a complaint made against them [to] the Gardai and
subsequent raid.
RECORDING
Brian Wallace: I came home at five o'clock and saw a
Garda van around the corner so I said "ah nothing" and
I walked up to my door, and as soon as I go in the
door, the Guards come up, they come in, search
warrant, and they come in and talk to me in the
kitchen for a while, and then they go in and they kick
in the door to my bedroom and they take my computer
and other things they find. [Recording is edited here]
I feel like the individual Gardai don't believe in the
system either though but they're stuck in it 'cos
they're to get their promotions or whatever so they
just go along [with] whoever is paying their wages,
you know? They- I feel they would prefer to have me as
their boss than Bertie, you know?
RECORDING ENDS
Claire Byrne: OK, that's a fairly wild assumption
there. We're going to be speaking to Superintendent
Kevin O'Donoghue who is head of Garda Press and
Publisity in just a couple of moments in relation to
that particular situation and also to the wider issue
I suppose of these groups and whether they are
something they are keeping an eye on in the Ireland of
today. Now, coming back to the Movement to Save
Ireland and Brian Wallace and the people who support
him, what exactly do they believe, and who are they
targeting when they are looking for support?
Niell Brennan: Sure, well, what they would say is they
are against mass immigration. They want to protect
Irish culture and Western culture in general. So it
would be very much- They are against the
islamification as they call it, of Ireland, they would
be against immigration that wouldn't come from
European backgrounds. They would say that the
immigrants themselves are tools of the system that is
trying to oppress Irish people, and kind of take away
from the native culture that is here. Now, they are
very careful, they are very media savy. They talk of
undesirables coming into the country without ever
really directly saying who they are referring to.
Their- Instead they talk in abstract terms about the
system, about elites, very very media savvy. We went
out handing out-
Claire Byrne: Hang on a second, because we have to be
careful here because these people aren't talking about
having a controlled immigration system whereby we
don't let people in who perhaps have a criminal
conviction in another. Are you absolutely certain that
this is a white supremacist group,which is what I
think you are saying to me they are?
Niell Brennan: It is, very much so but they are very
careful how they say it, they couch it in very careful
terms, but they are very much in favour of a native
Irish population, of what he calls a background level
of immigration, but the controls he is asking for
would be very very strict, basically he is against any
kind of immigration that isn't white.
Claire Byrne: OK, lets have a listen to how they got
on I think you were out canvassing with him, weren't
you?
Niell Brennan: We went out handing leaflets in
Southill, now as we know, Southill would be a
disadvantaged area in Limerick and it's very much one
of the areas they're targeting. They believe that this
could be a core area for support. Most people we
bumped into ignored them or were polite and took the
leaflets, looked at them, but they were leaving stuff
in shops and places like that, but as we will hear
from the next clip, there was some support for them
RECORDING
Southill Resident : What are ye?
Brian Wallace: The Movement to Save Ireland. Have you
seen our stuff around?
Southill Resident: I haven't actually no
Brian Wallace: Basically we are just getting our group
going you know, doing a bit of recruitment like.
Southill Resident: Ye just want all Irish here is it?
Brian Wallace: Well
Southill Resident: Like myself
Brian Wallace: We don't want mass immigration like
Southill Resident: No, no, no, no, I totally agree
with ye.
Brian Wallace: And we were raided by the Guards and
everything because this Jewish one in Dublin didn't
like my stuff
Southill ResidentDid she? yeah yeah, now, as the old
saying was, the only mistake Hitler made was he didn't
kill all the Jews.
Brian wallace laughs
RECORDING ENDS
Claire Byrne: Ok so that was one person who was
canvassed by this Movement to Save Ireland but Niell I
suppose I would have to say that as you said earlier
on most people were polite to them but weren't
interested.
Niell Brennan: Yeah exactly but there was a minority
who would have picked up the leaflets, would have
looked at them, would have agreed and would have told
Brian that even if it came to an election they would
vote for a party along similar lines to these guys.
Claire Byrne: OK, now they are also canvassing in
another very interesting area and they are targeting
the Eastern European population. What's the connection
there because you would imagine if they wanted a
native Irish population that would include ruling out
the Eastern Europeans?
Niell Brennan: Sure, well this is where the idea of
the western culture comes in as they put it. The MSI
is very busy canvassing for support from the Eastern
European immigrants, now, what they are basically
doing at this stage is, is just looking for as much
support as possible, so they are targeting the Polish
community, now they say a lot of Poles are right-wing
and would agree about the need to preserve this
western culture that they speak of. So that is where
they are getting a lot of support at the moment, and
there have been a number of incidents where Poles have
been involved in a number of racist attacks, and
graffiti attacks and things like that. We went to
leave some leaflets in a church, and we stopped
outside a Polish shop where some of the staff support
the group and Brian explained to me where their
support is coming from.
RECORDING
Brian Wallace: We're just leaving our bilingual
leaflets inside in the shop like, just to- you know-
as part of our outreach to the Polish community like
you know. At the end of the day, our fate will be the
same as theirs in as much as we're all Europeans and
If Ireland goes down, and Poland goes down, we'll all
go down like.
RECORDING ENDS
Claire Byrne: Now one of the things you felt most
disturbing about the time you spent with Brian Wallace
and his Movement to Save Ireland and the theory behind
it was his opinion in relation to the holocaust and
Jewish people.
Niell Brennan: Sure and again it is important to say
that Brian is very media savvy. He is aware of how as
he would say it, the media could twist things against
him. but the most troubling aspect would be his view
on what he called Zionists. Zionism was a movement to
set up Israel in the 19th Century It's now viewed as a
conspiracy. It is a term these right-wing groups use.
It could be viewed as anti-semetic in many cases.
Brian is careful not to say Jews. He is aware of the
negative response that could spark to the group. But I
asked him several times for his views on the
holocaust, now he wouldn't give me a direct answer but
he did refer to the holocaust as a myth and a story
and later on he told me it was what he described as a
money spinner.
RECORDING
Brian Wallace: The media describes that some lives are
valuable and some lives are not valuable you know, it
makes propeganda. It's been a big money spinner for
some states you know. The eh
Niell Brennan: The Holocaust?
Brian Wallace: Yeah, for example it is out of your
pocket this money comes from, the German are paying
billions every year, that must damage the entire
European Union's economy. Why should we pay for this
monster state of Israel which is responsible for so
much of the ecstasy manufactured, so much of the child
pornography, which is a state of pure evil which needs
to be confronted like
RECORDING ENDS
Claire Byrne: All right, that is Brian Wallace of the
Movement to Save Ireland, our text number is 53106 at
a cost of 30 cent if you want to get in touch to
comment on what the Movement to Save Ireland are
saying it's 8:15 I am joined in studio by Niell
Brennan our reporter who was in Limerick canvassing
with Brian Wallase and the organisation, Movement to
Save Ireland, now as I mentioned earlier, the movement
came from a blog which was set up a number of years
ago. Tell us about that and how it works.
Niell Brennan: Yeah the blog was set up about a year
ago, now online is where these groups are active at
the moment, now if you talk to people they will tell
you there is not really a problem, but they are very
active online, and the MSI would be the most public of
these groups and they would blog every so often, every
week, every month maybe on issues that might arrest
their attention. but there are other groups like
Stormfront which is very active. It doesn't seem to
have crossed over to actual violence so far but posted
on this site- the stormfront forum are the contact
details of those who- to put it mildly hold opposing
views to these right-wing groups. So these would be
left-wing groups, anti racism spokespeople, and we
have been speaking to some of them over the past 24
hours and and alot of them have received messages,
letters, emails that are abusive, that are
threatening, that are intimidating, one saying AIDS is
the best thing to happen since Hitler, so that kind of
line, really offensive stuff. Some refused to come on
the show for fear of making themselves targets,
marking themselves out to these groups, and I've now
been identified on the sites as well, so we will see
what happens in that regard.
Claire Byrne : OK Niell, thanks for bringing us that
story this morning. Let's go to our phone line now
because we are joined by Superintendent Kevin
Donoghue, Good morning to you Superintendent.
Kevin Donoghue: Good morning claire
Claire Byrne Thanks for joining us, This guy Brian
Wallace mentioned there to a number of people he was
canvassing in Southill in Limerick that his computer
had been seized by Gardai, what information do you
have in relation to that?
Kevin Donoghue: Well, I think Claire, in keeping with
our normal policy we try not to comment on specific
individual cases, but I can tell you that we did
receive a complaint some time ago culminating in an
investigation in the middle of June where we made an
arrest and seized some property, and in that regard, a
file is currently with the Director of Public
Prosecution. I suppose our key law in this case is the
Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act which is on
the statute books since 1989 and while everybody has a
democratic right to assemble lobby groups or political
parties or whatever, they must do so within the law.
And within that Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred
Act, you cannot publish or distribute material whether
it's written or it's video images or recordings that's
insulting abusive or threatening and in all it's
circumstances is likely to stir up hatred.
Claire Byrne: What's the Garda policy on this stuff,
do you have to wait for a complaint to come to you
before you act or are you actively monitoring the
potential i suppose of racially motivated crime in
this country?
Kevin Donoghue: I suppose like in a lot of things we
can take action in two regards, first of all if we
have a complaint, which we had in one specific case
and that- I won't say makes it easier but is one
avenue we can go down. But obviously, the Garda
Siochana like most police services throughout the
world, not only provide the policing service to the
country but are also responsible for state security.
So, certainly from a state security point of view, we
would monitor through various units, the activity of
groups whose aims might affect state security or whose
aims are to undermine the workings of democratic society.