Hal Turner a Paid Shill for NAHQ?

[Victor Wolzek]

Hal Turner interviewed Sanders Pierce (WP's brother) tonight (12-01-03).

One caller who professed to be an NA supporter asked Sanders what, if anything, he could say about the various reports of the corruption at NAHQ. The question was asked simply and politely.

Sanders said he "hadn't heard of any of that" so couldn't comment. Hard to believe, but fair enough.

But then Hal took it upon himself to smear and question the motives of the caller. He basically said the caller was most likely a liar, not an NA supporter but an anti-NA trouble maker. Hal lambasted the caller for participating in the infamous "internet rumor mongering." In a complete divorce from logic or coherence, Hal said the questioner's motives were suspect because he asked if allegations of NA corruption are true but didn't ask if allegations of Morris Dees's dildo terrorism are true. Hey Hal, the topic of conversation was the NA, not the SPLC! Hal is a pretty smart guy. He knows when arguments don't make sense and is quick to point out when jews and other detractors question motives and make clumsy attempts at misdirection. This inanity of his seemed a pure product of excessive defensiveness. But why? He doesn't scramble to defend other people or organizations if they are criticized by callers. He may disagree, but he doesn't go out of his way to smear the critic or suggest that criticism in that direction is inherently suspect and *not allowed.*

Fortunately, the last caller of the evening took Hal to task for just this, i.e., his unexpected and slavish NA suckpoopery. The caller basically said:

"I don't personally know the caller who asked about NA corruption and I don't know what his real motivations were, but asking the question does not automatically mean he is a tool of the SPLC. The allegations of corruption are not just 'internet rumor mongering.' It is a fact that every single trusted longtime member William Pierce appointed to the NA board has quit because of HQ corruption and incompetence. Is Fred Streed an 'internet rumor monger'? Is Kitti Molz an 'internet rumor monger'? Dr. William Pierce did not think so. Hal, your knee-jerk reaction to a legitimate question that may shed uncomfortable light on NAHQ makes it seem like you are a paid shill for the NA rather than a host open to an objective conversation."

I couldn't agree more. Listening to Hal's defensive non-response -- right down to his word use: "internet rumor-mongering" -- I immediately thought, "Jesus! He is regurgitating NA-issued damage control soundbites word for word!

Can listeners even imagine Hal Turner interviewing Fred Streed, Kitti Molz or Dr. Robert DeMarais about the NA? Objectively addressing the *substance* at the heart of all the internet rumor-mongering. I can't. I could have a couple months ago, but now it's like Hal is no longer allowed to discuss the NA like he would any other person, group or issue.

I've been one of Hal Turner's most vocal fans for over two years --

see:
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/index331.htm

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/temp/soundboards/HalTurner_soundboard.html

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/temp/soundboards/HalTurner2_soundboard.html

--

so this isn't petty trouble-making or "internet rumor-mongering" on my part. I'm genuinely disturbed at the idea that the mythical immaculate integrity of current NA leadership may be the new "sacred six million" or "gas chamber" tale of the Hal Turner Show -- something it's a moral outrage to question no matter the evidence to the contrary.

As both NA and Hal Turner are wont to say, If you want to know who's pulling the strings, ask who you can't criticize.

vw

[Brock Landers]

Hal Turner went to speak at some meeting at NAHQ. I bet Gliebe sat Hal down in his office, handed him a check for $500 or a thousand buck and said, "The NA is grateful for your support." Wink wink.

Hal got the point. Ever since he's gone from being a non-partisan pro-white radio host to one of the NA's paid damage control team.

I heard the show too and one thing that Victor did not mention in his note is that Hal also made a point to say he had the caller's contact information, suggesting the caller could be investigated or harassed for daring to question if there was any truth to the various allegations of corruption at HQ. Maybe Pringle and Strom are circulating it on Unit 1, encouraging members to "cause problems" for the caller.

If the caller was in fact an NA supporter as he said he was, they are probably doing to him what they did to Kitti Molz - urging members to "out" him as a "racist" at work.

Join the National Alliance, so the minute you don't toe the line they will use the membership against you just like the kikes!!!!

[Fenris]

The caller made allegations of wife-beating. He was a troll. An audio-troll.

And if Turner isn't willing to allow his show to become a platform for every shit-stirrer with a modem, it's to his credit.

Mr. Pierce came across as a really sincere man. Sounded a lot like his brother. Why Victor attacks his credibility I don't understand.

If this board is going to resume its (former) second job as agent provocateur, I'll leave pretty disappointed. Let's finish the first job first.

[Brock Landers]

The caller made allegations of wife-beating. He was a troll. An audio-troll.

And if Turner isn't willing to allow his show to become a platform for every shit-stirrer with a modem, it's to his credit.

Mr. Pierce came across as a really sincere man. Sounded a lot like his brother. Why Victor attacks his credibility I don't understand.

If this board is going to resume its (former) second job as agent provocateur, I'll leave pretty disappointed. Let's finish the first job first.


The guy said he was an NA supporter and said that there have been a number of stories about bad things happening at NAHQ including a recent suicide and asked if Sanders Pierce knew anything about these stories. Period. End of his question. How does that by definition make him "an audio troll"? His question was a GOOD QUESTION! There was a suicide! There have been allegations of everything from wife beating to S&M videos to cheating bands and financial mismanagement. Even if in fact the caller was "an audio troll" it does not mean his question was not objectively valid, which according to Victor was one of the points the final caller made to Hal.

As for Victor supposedly "attacking the credibility" of Sanders Pierce -- that's a plain stupid comment that looks intended to attack Victor's credibility. Fenris, don't forget Victor's post is there at the top for all to read themselves. He doesn't attack Sanders Pierce's credibility. All he says is that Sanders claimed not to have heard about "any" of the alleged problems at NAHQ and that while it's "hard to believe" the answer was "fair enough." That, imo is quite charitable because IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE that William Pierce's own brother would have absolute ignorance of the problems that have not only plagued NA since his brother's death, but led to ALL OF THE LONGTIME TRUSTED BOARD MEMBERS RESIGNING. The only way Sanders Pierce could claim absolute ignorance is if he lives like a Unabomber hermit and has no idea what is happening with NA whatsoever -- in which case, why is he on the Hal Turner Show talking about NA? Nice man or not, Sanders damages his own credibility by lying about his ignorance.

Christ, is there a single NA member out there who is willing to talk honestly and plainly instead of acting like politicians programmed with soundbites and canned answers. That goes for you too, Fenris. It's like the NA makes members swap their brains for a pair of NA ponpoms. Gliebe cheating bands is A-OK but merely asking if the cheating is true is being an "agent provocateur."

Get a clue: if even some of the allegations about the NA are true - then correcting those problems is critical to "getting the job done" ESPECIALLY IF THE NA IS AS POWERFUL AND INFLUENTIAL AS YOU SUGGEST IT IS WHEN YOU ACT AS IF QUESTIONING IT IS DANGEROUS TO THE CAUSE.

If Gliebe is robbing bands -- that is a form of infighting.
If Strom is discouraging state unit leaders from allowing Alex Linder to speak -- that is a form of infighting.
If Pringle lies about NAHQ non-support for Doles -- that is a form of infighting.
If NAHQ encourages members to "out" Kitti Molz at her work -- that is a form of infighting.
When Walker, Strom, Gliebe and Pringle tag-team smear Fred Streed as a disgruntled liar and kook -- that is a form of infighting.

Why is NAHQ infighting ok but pointing it out is "agent provocateurship"?

Do you see the double standard and just don't care, or are you retarded?
Are you a brainwashed lackey or merely stupid?
Are you liar or a stooge?

[Fenris]

Agent provocateur it is. Trash the existing pro-white organizations first, then whine on the internet about the Jews.

Ya won't be getting any more traffic from me, goys.

[Brock Landers]

Agent provocateur it is. Trash the existing pro-white organizations first, then whine on the internet about the Jews.

Ya won't be getting any more traffic from me, goys.

Damn, what will the forum do without Fenris the brainwashed cult member whose only response to real questions is to shout "provocateur!" and run away crying.

[Victor Wolzek]

Just for the record:

I did not intend even to question, let alone attack, Sanders Pierce's credibility. I agree with Fenris that he did appear to be a nice guy. Furthermore, while it is hard to believe that anyone involved in white activism over the past year wouldn't know about the various issues surrounding the NA, contrary to what Brock said, to me it is plausible that Sanders didn't know about them. If he isn't online much and his principle communication with NA is with the leadership and the mailed bulletin, chances are good that he'd know the NA was supposedly "triumphing in the face of enemies who'd destroy us from without and within" but that he'd have no real sense of the nature and breadth of the allegations.

I take Sanders Pierce at his word that he was not familiar enough with the controversial allegations to comment on them.

[TylerD]

Just for the record:

I did not intend even to question, let alone attack, Sanders Pierce's credibility. I agree with Fenris that he did appear to be a nice guy. Furthermore, while it is hard to believe that anyone involved in white activism over the past year wouldn't know about the various issues surrounding the NA, contrary to what Brock said, to me it is plausible that Sanders didn't know about them. If he isn't online much and his principle communication with NA is with the leadership and the mailed bulletin, chances are good that he'd know the NA was supposedly "triumphing in the face of enemies who'd destroy us from without and within" but that he'd have no real senese of the nature and breadth of the allegations.

I take Sanders Pierce at his word that he was not familiar enough with the controversial allegations to comment on them.

I agree. It's unlikely that Sanders Pierce has been looking around the internet trying to find information about what is happening to the National Alliance. Unless someone has personally taken it upon themselves to call him and give him the details, he will almost certainly be totally clueless.

Hal Turner probably gets most of his information from the members loyal to Gliebe in the New Jersey unit. He gets money from the National Alliance for his services. Hal has a financial interest in trivializing criticisms of the leadership of the NA, so from that standpoint none of this is really shocking.

[AnotherAngel]

I heard the show too and one thing that Victor did not mention in his note is that Hal also made a point to say he had the caller's contact information, suggesting the caller could be investigated or harassed for daring to question if there was any truth to the various allegations of corruption at HQ. Maybe Pringle and Strom are circulating it on Unit 1, encouraging members to "cause problems" for the caller. -Brock Landers.

Speaking of the NA, contact information, and possible harassment; I think I had a brush with this a few weeks ago when I took SF's gayest to task for lying about Alex Linder.

Shortly after posting criticism on SF of the NA management (which by the way, I had to force by posting it on VNN first and calling SF out as the NA shill that it is), I was invited by NA member "Fenris", who I have never spoken to before, to "network" with him. Basically, he was asking for my name, address, and telephone number as I see it.

Knowing what I do of the NA's complete opposition to any independent thought or disagreement by their members with management, I found it strange that a loyal NA member, who promotes his local NA chapter in his signature, would want to network with someone who had just come out in support of Alex Linder's criticisms of the NA's leaders.

That, the timing of his invitation, and the fact that networking between us would most likely be useless to both of us (which he even mentioned himself), makes me strongly suspect that he was asking for my contact information on behalf of the NA. I wonder what they were planning to do to me in response to my criticisms. I am so relieved I didn't join that nutjob organization.

[Draco]

I firmly believe that given Hals history of theatrics with the intent to gain money, he'd happily become the NA's glory hole for a few extra bucks.

Fuck Hal Turner, I hope his dorsal fin rot, anal cardiac warts or whatever the hell he's dying from today finally bites him in the ass.

[LindaLou]

I'm a member of the NA......I have no intentions of being an active member until they can get their act together, and I don't see that happening under Erich Gliebe.
I knew Fred Streed, and Marta, and Bob D. These are folks that have nothing but the highest of reputations within the NA. Of course when Fred came public with his letter, the NA regarded him as nothing more than a mere "janitor" or "handyman".....and then of course they wanted folks to believe that Fred had gone astray and was delusional by Bill White! GIVE ME A BREAK!
I knew some of the staff that Dr. Pierce had.....and of course they were either fired, or walked out on Gliebe .....<sarcastic> of course they were all delusional also>.
All these people had nothing but high reputations......Fred Streed had nothing but the finest reading material in his home that I have seen in a long time. He is very intelligent, reserved, and I never knew him to say ANYTHING unless he had something intelligent to say. Same with Bob D.
When Hal went to the NA conference he came back saying that everything was fine, and Erich gave a good speech, and so on........Well, anyone can give a good speech, and anyone can make a good presentation. I would think that Hal knows that.......
So far, the NA leadership has done nothing but blame the Internet, and Bill White for all it's troubles. lol, need I say anymore about that.
When I began to find out about many folks that I knew that had been in the NA for 15 or more years, and had given everything in theirs lives for the NA, resign, of whom were good folks, with good reputations, then I knew there was something rotten in Denver.
So, the NA has updated their web sites, and added a few new ones, but that doesnt mean anything either.........
I see a lot of MINI FUEHRER'S WITHIN the NA right now........The mini Fuehrer attitude is just seething over! And if it's not the mini Fuehrer attitude then it's the LITTLE HIMMLER attitude............
And that is all I see with the NA members that I myself talk with from time to time.........It's so bad that I can't even stand to talk to them anymore!
A good source is: http://www.jabpage.org/
On the front page click on "The Decline Of The National Alliance"
This guy use to be Dr. Pierce's proof reader, and has NO reason to lie and make up stories, and has nothing to do with Bill White. There you will find the facts, and the truth.
I'm sure after posting this, NA folks will hop on the forum here, to spew out anything that comes out of their mouths, like mini Fuehrer's and Little Himmler's.

[Librarian]

It's sad, but the truth of the matter is that the NA has been taken over. It's crawling with government agents.