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April 2nd, 2008 | #21 |
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No, not at all. The Klan's semi-ideology, a mish mash of Christianity and Constitutionalism, is so alien to National Socialism as to be largely irreconcialiable.
The only reason for Klan and NS groups to work together is race and the fact that Klan is so void of ideology, even knowledge of its own Klan-ness, in general, that Klan activists can become good comrades. |
April 2nd, 2008 | #22 | ||
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Duke's books are very derivative of other white nationalist works -- in fact, they are largely copied -- and contain several substantial errors, such as when he describes the coefficient of correlation as being the percentage which one variable accounts for another, and builds an argument around that, instead of taking the coefficient squared. Based on that, whoever wrote it was someone without a strong grasp of the material they were publishing. Quote:
Look, its the AmRen conference: |
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April 2nd, 2008 | #23 | |
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Bill, you Jew cocksucker, David Duke is ten times the writer that Strom is or ever was. Strom had jack shit to do with either book. You win though Bill, I've given up, I really no longer give a fuck how many people you fool and deceive; I've stuck around here for far too long in an effort to convince as many people as possible that you're a no good motherfucking liar and provocateur, and sadly, most are unreceptive to good sense. In any case, with the exception of one or two more posts, to tidy things up, this will be my last VNN post and/or comment directed at you. I hope you're dragged out of bed by your sponsors in the near future and dispatched with the utmost prejudice. |
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April 2nd, 2008 | #24 |
Switching to glide
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Just put "the Commander" and the entire ANSWP membership (all 4 of them) on ignore, dude.
Works just fine.
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April 2nd, 2008 | #25 | |
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April 2nd, 2008 | #26 |
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Uhm... David has always been pretty open about Kevin's involvement with both of the books.
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April 2nd, 2008 | #27 |
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Do you remember that half-built hotel that that I snuck into and I peed in? That place is like a castle now. You'd never believe how it turned out.
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April 3rd, 2008 | #28 | |
Proud Italian
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Itz. always good to reflect
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April 3rd, 2008 | #29 |
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April 3rd, 2008 | #30 | |
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Quote:
However, I agree, Carto has published a lot of stuff attacking people which has not been adequately explained and which has come off as a bit fruity. |
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April 3rd, 2008 | #31 |
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I just read that statement by Pierce on Carto in some detail, and in it, Pierce makes several statements that are untrue:
First, William Pierce did not found the National Youth Alliance. Willis Carto founded the National Youth Alliance as "Youth for Wallace" in 1968. At the time, William Pierce was part of Matt Koehl's National Socialist White People's Party. Willis Carto was expelled from the National Youth Allliance, the organization he founded and financed, by white conservatives he recruited because he was "racist" and "anti-Semitic." William Pierce allied himself with these anti-racists after he was expelled from the NSWPP and seized control of the grouup. Willis Carto sued the National Youth Alliance for stealing a large sum of money from him -- really, I think Willis loaned the money to the group and the group, after expelling Willis, refused to repay it -- and won, banrkupting the new leadership. This is why Pierce was forced to close the National Youth Alliance and start the National Alliance. Second, Carto did not embezzle from Mark Weber and the IHR. Mark Weber and the IHR embezzled from Carto, by taking money that was intended to be left to Carto, but which was being laundered through organizations which Weber and others seized control of, and stopping the money when it came into their hands. The money should never have been laundered in the first place and it probably serves everybody right, but the intent of the giver to give the money to Carto was thwarted; even the court found that in its ruling. Now, as to Pierce being an "FBI asset", I don't have any evidence of that. Carto believed the FBI infiltrated the National Youth Alliance and shut it down; because Pierce was involved, Carto believed Pierce was FBI. I don't see any good evidence of that at this point. However, the argument that Mark Weber worked, at one point in his life, for the CIA is much stronger and more interesting. Weber, by his own account, was in Ghana in 1969 on behalf of the US Information Agency. The US Information Agency is the same group that sent David Horowitz to Nicaragua in 1984 to teach "media skills" to "labor unions", i.e., to support the Contra insurgency. It is an organization often used as a cover for the Central Intelligence Agency. So, that is suspicious, but not determinative. Allegedly, after returning to the US, Weber took a job at a DC hotel that caters almost exclusively to African diplomats. Again, interesting, but not determinative. What I find very strange is that Weber, while in Africa, claims to have met Jared Taylor wandering through the desert, and then nursed him back to health. Taylor's wife, Evelyn Rich, is a professional anti-racist with overt and public ties to the Anti-Defamation League; in 1985, she secretly recorded tapes of David Duke for the ADL and turned those tapes over to them, leading to their release to the mass media. The whole Weber-Taylor thing stinks, as does American Renaissance and Stormfront's support for it. My only question is how deep does this stuff go, and how many of the enemies we have in the movement are involved. We know about the pedophilia clique; we have this weird Taylor-Weber alliance; we have the links and ties between Taylor, Weber, Black, Duke, Kelso and the rest; what are the real conspiracies between them? |
April 3rd, 2008 | #32 |
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Bill White leaves me perplexed. There is probably no greater National Socialist by temperament and worldview than I but if I were to start a political movement, I wouldn’t dress up in mismatched German uniforms from another era. I wouldn’t dress up in any uniforms. Period. I wouldn’t have “National Socialist” figure in my movement’s name and I wouldn’t be talking about the Third Reich or Adolf Hitler...ever. This leads me to believe that Bill White is probably not a serious individual. Only Alex Linder knows why Bill White merits his attention.
As to his review of a biogrophy of Willis Carto, every single W.N. leader in the U.S. is dismissed by White as a homosexual, a pedophile, a drug-addict or a thief. This comes from someone who runs around the U.S. dressed up like he’s in 1920’s Germany. He also publically claimed to have the ear of Ron Paul and his advisors. Is Bill White for real? What to make of this individual? The first thought that comes to mind is that anyone who like to dress like that is probably mentally unstable. Incidentally, I believe that the guy with glasses besides him is Michael Blevins, who has spent time in a psychiatric institution. Last edited by F.W. Braun; April 3rd, 2008 at 10:03 PM. |
April 3rd, 2008 | #34 |
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It's all interesting stuff, as far as I'm concerned. I don't necessarily believe anything. Not without verification.
Like most people WN tend to overreact to everything. I won't aim this at anybody in particular, but let me tell you that there is no way in hell dumb, redneck, paranoid Klansmen will every make an ounce of political change in this country. Keep in mind that I have nothing against dumb, redneck paranoid Klansmen. I'm on their side. The levels of hysteria around here are pathetic, especially when they come from seemingly intelligent people. VNN has always been for non-cultists, and increasingly I see that at the least a very large minority of those in WN cannot tolerate any disagreement whatsoever. VNN will always be uncomfortable for these people because it will never be an echo chamber. Accept that or depart and don't worry about us. |
April 3rd, 2008 | #35 |
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No, F.W. Braun. Bill White is NOT for real. Unless, of course, you're looking for a "kosher" D.J. at a bar mitzvah.
He can pass that smell test. When does "Commander" White have time to actually build a viable National Socialist organization? Has this guy ever posted a thread on how he plans to actually GROW the A.N.S.W.P.??? I've never seen one. I don't claim to know what Bill White IS. I do, however, know what he is NOT. He's not a White Nationalist, and he's not a National Socialist. Cross those two off the list. |
April 3rd, 2008 | #36 | |
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Found this on the web.. If the ANSWP plans a book burning, I suggest you throw this first on top of the pyre.
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April 3rd, 2008 | #37 | |
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I can't prove she is a Jew. The fact she supports AmRen and the Jews that go with it is enough in my book to certify her as an "anti". A cursory check of her name use and she uses her maiden name in some cases today. I probably could find more if I was willing to pay for it. Not proof she is a Jew of course but strong evidence she is under the feminist ideology. I have personally saw Don Black state in his Sustaining Member lounge he is good personal friends with both Jared and Evelyn and took offense by a former SF member attacking her and hell banned that member. Black further went on to say he has been to the Taylor household on several occasions on social visits. As Black has presided over SF's morphing from a WN forum to a castrated sissified gabfest it is my opinion that Jared and Evelyn have influenced to some extent this about face in tone. Not proof, just my opinion. Her thesis written about the Klan and David Duke is good enough to be quoted as reference material for some group called http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/cg...s&ke=3#authbio Again, not proof she is a Jew, just that she is not for the White race. |
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April 3rd, 2008 | #38 |
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Well I'd have to say that with this post John Ryan has (if such is indeed possible) approximately closed the circle on this rather convoluted story of the [mis]adventures of Mr. Willis Carto over the last several decades.
As an earlier poster commented: "who are you going to trust: Dr. Pierce or Willis Carto?" I think we are still left with that fundamental question, but the known history may at least help a bit with understanding it. There has to be a lot of irony in the facts of the demise of the National Alliance when we hear the good Doctor speaking on the YouTube clip. As he relates the destruction of the Aryan Nations and the Church of the Creator, we can but wince at the knowledge that his own failure to provide for a successor in leadership of the Alliance resulted in its similar fate. But Doctor Pierce's transcribed remarks on Willis Carto definitely turn the spotlight (if you will) on the theories of George Michael's new biography "Willis Carto and the American Far Right" (assuming the reviewer's accuracy.) Without any doubt there was never a time of good and cozy relations between Pierce and Carto. The exact origins of the National Youth Alliance are unclear, but it is known that Revilo Oliver was involved as was Pierce as he moved from Rockwell's org to the National Youth Alliance. That there was a squabble and a dustup over the heading up of that org seems clear, as does the fact that Pierce ultimately emerged with the spoils (as it were). As the dust settled over the succeeding years, the hard feelings apparently remained even if the protagonists for the most part steered their separate courses. To my knowledge there has never been claimed any involvement by Pierce and his group in the controversy over the IHR and the Legion for the Survival of Freedom. (Until reading this review I was also unaware of any particular closeness between Mark Weber and Jared Taylor.) By 1995 we have the episode of Pierce "confronting" Carto over the Spotlight pieces with the remarks transcribed here. By 2004, however, we have Dr. Pierce's erstwhile Lieutenant, Kevin Strom, appearing on the dais with Duke, Kelso, Black, Carto and others (with the eventual "heirs" to the NA noticeably absent) happily signing on to the "new Orleans Protocol" while pointedly ignoring all of his own very direct (and possibly even significant) earlier criticisms of Carto. The subject of the introduction to Imperium must rate its own paragraph. The Noontide Press edition of Francis Parker Yockey's masterpiece is prefaced with a lengthy, profound, and ultimately exquisitely well-written introduction to which is affixed the name of Willis Carto. Now whether Carto is the actual author of the introduction is, in and of itself, is of no great consequence. There is nothing particularly dishonest in having a piece ghost written; the question only arises when (or if) the literary pedigree is under scrutiny. In the person of Mr. Kevin Alfred Strom the literary pedigree of the introduction to the Noontide Press edition of Imperium came under particularly close scrutiny. Strom has both spoken and written to the effect that the true author of the introduction to Imperium is none other than Revilo P. Oliver. According to Strom Dr. Oliver was not disposed to claim authorship for a number of personal reasons not the least of which was a general professional disinclination to associate his name with any writing which had been in the slightest edited or otherwise altered from the precise original form that he had personally given it. Apparently, in his very prolific career Dr. Oliver wrote many, many pieces that were either given pen-name authorship or were credited to other authors. Dr. Oliver had no disagreement or concern with Carto's name as the author and so the matter rested. Strom has analyzed the matter in considerable detail, so I'll not repeat those discussions here, although I find it obvious that the Introduction to Imperium represents a level of writing and scholarly thinking that I have never found in any other writings attributed to Willis Carto. At the same time, the literary style, vocabulary, and weltanschauung consistent throughout the lengthy Introduction is entirely and completely consonant with the writings of RPO. Several facts can be adduced from the foregoing. 1) Without any doubt Willis Carto knows the true identity of the author of the Introduction, 2) Strom has claimed that Oliver, not Carto, is the author. 3) both Oliver (in his lifetime) and Carto have been content to not further address the matter. At Duke's 2004 love fest Duke himself, in introducing Carto, pointedly made high-praise reference to Carto as the author of the Introduction. These kudos were made with KAS present and sitting on the dais, apparently offered as an "in-your-face" challenge to anyone interested in the facts of the matter as a demonstration of the newfound "spirit of cooperation" being peddled. Carto took no exception. Strom took no exception. No one else in the whole damned world apparently took any exception. Not even Mark Weber of the IHR - whose org and self were a primery target of the EURO marginalization effort - deemed it worthwhile to involve himself in the conversation. So it appears, at least initially, that the idea was to "rehabilitate" Carto (who seemed delighted to have been welcomed back into the Duke universe), stifle the anti-Carto message that Strom had carried as the student of both Oliver and Pierce (both conveniently dead and unable to vouch for their own interests), and challenge anyone interested in sorting the question out with a "don't confuse us with the facts" dose of hubris. And so it seemed to work out... Additional consideration may well lead one to a rather different conclusion. In setting up his "big tent" event Dr. Duke had no problem giving a figurative bum's rush to a goodly number of erstwhile White Nationalists. Not only were the leaders-to-be of the NA excluded (to be sure by their own wishes), but many others were also distinguished by their absence. It seems that the main intent in bringing Carto back aboard was to push Weber aside, and that this particular pogrom was aided and abetted by Strom. Duke's subsequent adventures at the AMREN conference and his seeming banishment by Jared Taylor made good theater, but it also seems to belie the conclusions of Bill White (and perhaps George Michael as well) that the entire aggregation in and around the 2004 EURO fest is a quasi-monolithic jew-front operation. If Taylor lets the juden in and protects them while Duke baits them in their faces, then where does this leave (for example) Mark Weber, Matt Hale, and Willis Carto himself? Although it must be powerfully interested, I really don'y see the hand of the jew here at all. Rather, I see the greedy and opportunistic hand of a venal and calculating White Nationalist bourgeoisie working to ensure maximum profitability and insularity. Carto simply cannot be excluded; his history is entirely too long, too replete with attacks on others, and too similar to so many other "leaders of the movement." He is no more the good guy, or the "one true National Socialist" than any of the rest of these fine White leaders.
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April 3rd, 2008 | #39 | |
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April 3rd, 2008 | #40 | |
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As always, genius is succinct. Which outcome of which pitched battle (or hissy-fit?) has best advanced the interests of White People?
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