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Old December 12th, 2004 #1
Ben Vinyard
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Default WR Speaks Out on Glenn Miller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Roper
An Intervention…

When a cancer is first diagnosed, sometimes the first impulse is denial. It’s not cancer, it’s only a mole. It’s just a rough patch of dry skin. It’s just a lump. Maybe the tumor is benign.

Then…Okay, it’s cancer, but maybe it won’t spread. Maybe it won’t metastasize. Maybe it will go into remission by itself. It doesn’t seem to be spreading.

Then, remaining silent isn’t enough. It becomes obvious that the problem isn’t going to go away by itself.

So, I wrote a private, personal e-mail letter to Glenn Miller, advising him in cordial and regretful terms that due to White Revolution’s previous position on informants and those who testify against White Nationalists, regardless of the extenuating circumstances, in order to remain consistent, we had to hold him to the same standard. We could not endorse of participate in any of his projects, nor could we support his reemergence as a leader and an activist. I told him that the best he could hope for was for us to not attack him publicly.

That was the chemotherapy phase of treatment. It failed to produce the results we wanted, which was the disappearance of the cancer. So, we had to adopt a more aggressive method of treatment, a few weeks later, when I told Alex Linder himself directly that we couldn’t endorse or support any projects sponsored by Miller, or joint VNN/Miller activities. Linder had already requested that we remove the White Revolution and PanzerFaust banners from the VNN Forum, which we had done. He had already insinuated to VNN moderators that they censor and ban those who questioned or criticized Miller, and adopted him as an ally. He refused to answer any questions from WR Moderators about this new policy, or discuss his new allegiance to Miller. So, my personal letter to him was the next step, the radiation treatment, if you will, to stop the cancer….but it didn’t encounter success, either.

Since then, it has become obvious to us that just remaining silent and not endorsing Miller was not enough. Working behind the scenes to influence Linder was not enough. Expressing our opinion and policy to members and supporters alone, was not enough. A radical intervention was necessary. The Oncologist gave up, and the surgeons had to step in.

We realize that Linder and others will see this as a hostile move, and that irreparable damage will be done to our working relationship with VNN, and with others who have publicly supported Miller. Frankly, we don’t care, at this point. We want to remove Miller from influence in the movement, hopefully while removing as little healthy flesh from around the festering cancer as is possible. However, if we cannot remove the cancer, at least we have done the right thing by trying. Alex Linder may well take VNN and the VNN Forum to another server as soon as he can arrange such a transfer. That’s of course his prerogative, and we’ll help provide him with whatever information, codes, or other technical assistance we can to allow him to move. It’s not our intention to hold either the VNN Forum or VNN hostage, or at all interfere with his ownership or control of them. Our intention was to make a statement, and to make our position on Miller and others who testify against White Nationalists crystal clear. Does anyone still have any confusion as to White Revolution’s positions on traitors, witnesses, and informants? Anyone?

Yes, it’s a bold move, a controversial move, a polarizing move. That’s what we specialize in. Alex and whomever else wishes to can call us names and rant and rave for months on websites and all over the net, but we have taken our stand and made our position clear. That’s all that matters. Am I willing to sacrifice alliances and piss off supporters and throw away resources in order to take what I consider to be the principled and necessary stand? Absolutely. Just hide and watch, time and again.

Billy Roper
Chairman, White Revolution
www.whiterevolution.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kievsky
I've been hanging back from this debate, like all infighting, and giving Mr. Miller the benefit of the doubt. I also questioned whether or not his assisting in putting out AA would really do damage to the credibility of the movement.

I view the 1980's Order period as a tragedy for our people. On the one hand, it was too early to start a guerilla war. On the other hand, how could one not sympathize? Look at all the lives ruined since the 1980's, all the damage done? If the Order had been able to win a White homeland, or even scare the ZOG into pulling back it's anti-White measures, it would have been well worth it. The Order was trying to avert millions of tragedies that have happened since then, and for that I can only be grateful.

Glen Miller was caught up a middle land; on the one hand, he was trying to start a legitimate, open, legal political party. Then some men waging guerilla war showed up into his life, and he accepted their help. He wasn't ready for this, I think. He was a politician, not Che Guevara. He had a family, a life, and when he stared down the barrel of 20 years in prison, he traded his honor for his freedom.

Who knows what any one of us would do in that situation? You never know until you are in it.

My conclusions:

1. Glenn should accept that he traded freedom for honor, and all that entails.

2. In the interest of a unified movement, and for the 14 words, Glenn should step out of the spotlight and take his name off of all VNN materials, including Aryan Alternative. If he helps Alex behind the scenes, it is his and Alex's busniess. Alex has been falling on his sword for Glenn, again and again. Alex is the young guy, and Glenn is the older one. It is Glenn that should fall on his sword for Alex. Glenn should realize that Alex is being an honorable and loyal man in defending Glenn, and Glenn should in turn do his part to protect Alex by stepping back and ending this infighting. It is the honourable thing to do, and in my eyes, Glenn will win back at least a modicum of honor by taking this courageous step in the name of the 14 words.

My message to Glenn is that it's not the end of the world. I have experienced many disappointments and tragedies in my life, as I know you have. You can weather this one, as you have weathered others. I have had to drop out of public activism in the interest of my family, and I was greatly depressed after taking this step. But I found other things to occupy me.

Please, let us end this infighting, and continue with our work, in the name of the 14 words.

Rob
From Ben Vinyard:
Mr. Freeman,

Thank you for your measured and reasonable post. This was by far the toughest decision our organization has had to make. Mr. Linder is an honorable man and you’re right, it’s been painful watching a good comrade and a friend fall on the sword. To quote from that great literary monument of our time, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone, “It takes great courage to stand up to your enemies. It takes even greater courage to stand up to your friends.”

Ben Vinyard

Last edited by Tom88; December 12th, 2004 at 04:07 PM.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #2
Ben Vinyard
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From Alex Linder:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kievsky
I've been hanging back from this debate, like all infighting, and giving Mr. Miller the benefit of the doubt. I also questioned whether or not his assisting in putting out AA would really do damage to the credibility of the movement.



It's a little more than assisting, he's responsible for making the paper happen. And it has done a load of good, in just one issue.


Quote:
Who knows what any one of us would do in that situation? You never know until you are in it.

My conclusions:

1. Glenn should accept that he traded freedom for honor, and all that entails.

2. In the interest of a unified movement, and for the 14 words, Glenn should step out of the spotlight and take his name off of all VNN materials, including Aryan Alternative. If he helps Alex behind the scenes, it is his and Alex's busniess. Alex has been falling on his sword for Glenn, again and again. Alex is the young guy, and Glenn is the older one. It is Glenn that should fall on his sword for Alex. Glenn should realize that Alex is being an honorable and loyal man in defending Glenn, and Glenn should in turn do his part to protect Alex by stepping back and ending this infighting. It is the honourable thing to do, and in my eyes, Glenn will win back at least a modicum of honor by taking this courageous step in the name of the 14 words.




I haven't fallen on my sword at all. I'm proud to be associated with Miller. He has guts and initiative and a big healthy Aryan family -- three things we need a lot more of. I wouldn't dream of asking him to take his name off a publication he created more than anyone.


Quote:
Please, let us end this infighting, and continue with our work, in the name of the 14 words.

Rob



Infighting is sometimes necessary, and sometimes infighting is infighting back.

Slowly but surely the facts about the National Alliance are coming to light. This is good. It will either kill the group, or wash out the rot.

Not once in the history of the National Alliance has a leader been as open and direct as Miller has been in discussing his background, his finances, and his intentions.

The thing that strikes me most strongly, and I'll respond to Billy's comments next, is that none of the defenders of the Order acknowledge the established fact that the Order were almost to a man struck deals. And David Lane tried to. At least, that is what Glenn says, he has lied to me about nothing else, so I believe him. I have not seen a single Order member deny it.

I fault Miller for accepting stolen money. I fault the Order with destroying the White Patriot Party.

From WRMC14:
HAIL THE ORDER!!!!

From Vikinkur:

RESPECT!


From Alex Linder:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Roper
So, I wrote a private, personal e-mail letter to Glenn Miller, advising him in cordial and regretful terms that due to White Revolution’s previous position on informants and those who testify against White Nationalists, regardless of the extenuating circumstances, in order to remain consistent, we had to hold him to the same standard. We could not endorse of participate in any of his projects, nor could we support his reemergence as a leader and an activist. I told him that the best he could hope for was for us to not attack him publicly.




Billy, this what I don't understand at all. Virtually all the Order who went on trial testified that they had given money to Miller - before he ever testified a word. So how do you figurer that the Order is innocent while Miller is guilty?

Let alone the fact that he had a wife and multiple kids to think of, a large and growing LEGAL political party, and these guys had to a man testified or tried to testify against him -- and he's the one bad guy because he confirmed some information long known? That doesn't make sense any way you cut it, it isn't logical or fair.


Quote:
That was the chemotherapy phase of treatment. It failed to produce the results we wanted, which was the disappearance of the cancer. So, we had to adopt a more aggressive method of treatment, a few weeks later, when I told Alex Linder himself directly that we couldn’t endorse or support any projects sponsored by Miller, or joint VNN/Miller activities. Linder had already requested that we remove the White Revolution and PanzerFaust banners from the VNN Forum, which we had done. He had already insinuated to VNN moderators that they censor and ban those who questioned or criticized Miller, and adopted him as an ally. He refused to answer any questions from WR Moderators about this new policy, or discuss his new allegiance to Miller.




I don't know what you're referring to here. Anyone is free to criticize Miller, and always has been and will be. Those who want to rant and rave and spam on every thread that MILLER IS A RAT!, yes, we'll limit or ban them. But anybody who wants to question Miller or accuse or argue with him, they've had their chance in spades, and still do. I've never "insinuated" anything. I don't know what you mean by allegiance. I started this forum in the hopes it would attract people who would intiate projects. Miller did that. Naturally I joined him. This has resulted in one good newspaper so far. With the prospect of more. That's good for all of us.


Quote:
Since then, it has become obvious to us that just remaining silent and not endorsing Miller was not enough. Working behind the scenes to influence Linder was not enough. Expressing our opinion and policy to members and supporters alone, was not enough. A radical intervention was necessary. The Oncologist gave up, and the surgeons had to step in.

We realize that Linder and others will see this as a hostile move, and that irreparable damage will be done to our working relationship with VNN, and with others who have publicly supported Miller. Frankly, we don’t care, at this point. We want to remove Miller from influence in the movement, hopefully while removing as little healthy flesh from around the festering cancer as is possible. However, if we cannot remove the cancer, at least we have done the right thing by trying. Alex Linder may well take VNN and the VNN Forum to another server as soon as he can arrange such a transfer. That’s of course his prerogative, and we’ll help provide him with whatever information, codes, or other technical assistance we can to allow him to move. It’s not our intention to hold either the VNN Forum or VNN hostage, or at all interfere with his ownership or control of them. Our intention was to make a statement, and to make our position on Miller and others who testify against White Nationalists crystal clear. Does anyone still have any confusion as to White Revolution’s positions on traitors, witnesses, and informants? Anyone?




Yes, I'm completely confused. Miller has said that at least a dozen or so Order members testified against him. I have never seen anyone with White Revolution acknowledge that or refute it. If Miller's lying, then you have a damn good case. Otherwise, it looks like you're beating up on a family guy just trying to salvage a bit of decent life for his family after the other guys caved in and turned state's evidence.


Quote:
Yes, it’s a bold move, a controversial move, a polarizing move. That’s what we specialize in. Alex and whomever else wishes to can call us names and rant and rave for months on websites and all over the net, but we have taken our stand and made our position clear. That’s all that matters. Am I willing to sacrifice alliances and piss off supporters and throw away resources in order to take what I consider to be the principled and necessary stand? Absolutely. Just hide and watch, time and again.




No one doubts your courage, Billy, nor your honorable intentions. I've made my judgment about Miller. In my opinion, he's a good man, and I'll stand by him. Time has a way of sorting these things out, just as it's now sorting out the National Alliance.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #3
Ben Vinyard
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From WRMC14:
Alex the fact of the matter is that every last Order member that did not testify is sitting in prison right now as we speak and they will do so till the day they die. So please explain to me how they cut a deal with the feds when they are spending the rest of their lives in prison? It must have been one hell of a deal. David Lane is very ill and will probably soon pass away and the man has'nt been outside prison walls in what nearly 20 years. He sacrificed the last 20 years of his life which he could have been,spending it with his wife and children,for something he believed needed to be done. Every last one of the loyal Order members sacraficed the rest of their lives for something they believed needed to be done. Glenn Miller just accepted a hand out and then testifed in federal court against the men who gave him the handout and the most time he can say he did for it was 6 years. Alex I think you should soley place the blame on Mr. Miller for being a desperate man looking for a handout. He accepted the money and he is obviously somewhat of a smart man and should have known what the consequences might be. I guess he did think about it though and figured well if the shit got deep he could just testify for the prosecution, eh ALex????



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder
The thing that strikes me most strongly, and I'll respond to Billy's comments next, is that none of the defenders of the Order acknowledge the established fact that the Order were almost to a man struck deals. And David Lane tried to. At least, that is what Glenn says, he has lied to me about nothing else, so I believe him. I have not seen a single Order member deny it.

I fault Miller for accepting stolen money. I fault the Order with destroying the White Patriot Party.

From Colonel Kurtz:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder
.... is that none of the defenders of the Order acknowledge the established fact that the Order were almost to a man struck deals. And David Lane tried to. At least, that is what Glenn says, he has lied to me about nothing else, so I believe him. I have not seen a single Order member deny it.

I fault Miller for accepting stolen money. I fault the Order with destroying the White Patriot Party.



What exactly did Miller tell the Feds, that makes him a rat? Did he tell them that, yes, he accepted money from some Order members? What else could he have told them? He didn't even know abou the existence of the Order 'till they came to him offering cash. I don't believe that Miller solicited money from the Order. Perhaps I'm wrong.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #4
Ben Vinyard
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There was a screw-up while trying to merge the threads. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Ben Vinyard
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #5
Tom88
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My fault totally. Sorry about the confusion.

-Tom
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #6
Alex Linder
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Default WRMC/Linder response

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRMC 14
Alex the fact of the matter is that every last Order member that did not testify is sitting in prison right now as we speak and they will do so till the day they die. So please explain to me how they cut a deal with the feds when they are spending the rest of their lives in prison?
What was said was that Lane tried to cut a deal. If that's true, then he's in the same moral position as if he did.

Quote:
It must have been one hell of a deal. David Lane is very ill and will probably soon pass away and the man has'nt been outside prison walls in what nearly 20 years. He sacrificed the last 20 years of his life which he could have been,spending it with his wife and children,for something he believed needed to be done. Every last one of the loyal Order members sacraficed the rest of their lives for something they believed needed to be done. Glenn Miller just accepted a hand out
They approached him, he didn't approach them. And they could have given him the money anonymously, but they put everybody at risk by transferring the money in front of a whole bunch of people. Until he met them, he was legal and everything was going fine.

If you're going to rob banks and shoot people, you're going to jail if you get caught. There's also the fact that Miller didn't know a thing about the Order - he wasn't a member of it and hardly talked to the people in it more than once. And yet he was still willing to hide out David Lane. David Lane should not have
asked him to do that. That's part of what being a martyr is all about, if that's the risk you're going to run by going illegal. Do as much as you can, endanger as few other of the good guys as you have to, and when they finally get you, if they do, know that that's how it had to be. Like Miller says, who's in prison because of his testimony?

None of this EVER would have happned in the first place if they'd simply left the money on a box on Miller's doorstep or mailed it to him.

Quote:
and then testifed in federal court against the men who gave him the handout and the most time he can say he did for it was 6 years. Alex I think you should soley place the blame on Mr. Miller for being a desperate man looking for a handout. He accepted the money and he is obviously somewhat of a smart man and should have known what the consequences might be. I guess he did think about it though and figured well if the shit got deep he could just testify for the prosecution, eh ALex????
I think that's an extraordinarily unfair characterization of what happened. Do you think that the Order's underground robbing and murder was more valid than Miller's aboveground organizing? If so, then why is White Revolution committed to legal activity only? And if aboveground activities are as valid as underground, and if the Order was the first to "rat" on Miller, then the Order is
more guilty than he is for, two years later, confirming a few facts already long known, and thereby keeping a loyal White wife and loyal White children from a very difficult existence. You're demanding something of him that basically no one of flesh and blood is going to do. If the Order had held firm and no man had spoken a word, then it would be valid, if Miller had sent them all to prison for life. But that's not anywhere near what happened. Why do you guys not hold the Order to the standards you hold Miller to? That is the question.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #7
Ben Vinyard
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A few Order members turning rat doesn’t justify testifying against men that didn’t’ rat, like Richard Scutari, Pastor Butler, Louis Beam and David Lane. Miller likes to smear Mr. Lane’s name by alleging that he “offered to cut a deal.” Translation: he didn’t cut a deal. Miller also likes to make the claim that no one went to jail because of him. Perhaps I’ll tell the judge at my trial that, yes, Your Honor, I did put anti-freeze in my girlfriend’s chicken noodle soup, but I didn’t kill her did I? What would you do in White Revolution's 2004 shoes?

Ben Vinyard
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #8
Tom88
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Default A Few Emails

I just thought I'd share some of these emails that I've recieved from folks regarding this:

Quote:
You guys did the Right thing and I commend you on the great work you do and the way you handled the problem was the correct way and it shows alot of class on your part.


Thanks
Quote:
Wow, great job Billy and WR team!

88!
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #9
byron
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Whatever the circumstances surrounding the events that allow a person to rationalize informing/testifying against another member of our Community, if that person is responsible and well-meaning, he would not think of asking us to make exceptions in his case.
If somebody claims that they testified because they were "young and scared and made a mistake" fine, sounds good, you tell yourself whatever you need to in order to live with yourself, but you have to know what that means regarding your ever being accepted back in our circles, and you should know better than to ask. By the same token, if someone found out that they were 1/4 Indian or whatever, but they had been a racist "White" for years, they should know that we can't make an exception for them, and if they ask us to, it just proves that they don't have a true grasp of what's going on, and don't share our values and ideals.
Rudolf Hess told them to fuck off everyday for 46 years......What would he think of some weasel of a General who sputtered excuses about saying what he "had to say" because he had a family? Hess had a family, too.

"From whom much is given, much is expected." Leaders want us to give them power and authority and loyalty. What is required of them in return is realleadership and an example to follow. Anything less is the sign of an opportunistic pretender that doesn't have the fortitide and iron will to stand strong when the going gets rough.

The captain of a ship may be thought of as a great captain for years simply because he has never really been tested. If he freezes during a catastrophe and risks his men and his ship, he has failed the test. He has to know that he can never lead men again, because they can't put their lives in his hands.
It doesn't do much good for the captain to say, "Yeah, but everybody else on the ship freaked out, too."

Sacrifice and Loyalty are not catch-phrases or punchlines.

Each of us may only face one real test in our lives. Spend every minute of your life preparing for it. Choosing the path of least resistance is how rivers are formed, but not leaders.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #10
Alex Linder
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Vinyard
A few Order members turning rat doesn’t justify testifying against men that didn’t’ rat, like Richard Scutari, Pastor Butler, Louis Beam and David Lane. Miller likes to smear Mr. Lane’s name by alleging that he “offered to cut a deal.” Translation: he didn’t cut a deal. Miller also likes to make the claim that no one went to jail because of him. Perhaps I’ll tell the judge at my trial that, yes, Your Honor, I did put anti-freeze in my girlfriend’s chicken noodle soup, but I didn’t kill her did I? What would you do in White Revolution's 2004 shoes?

Ben Vinyard
I don't know what you should do. My question is why Miller is held to a different standard than the Order. Miller did plenty time in jail, and on probation. He's not even allowed to live in half the country.

White Revolution is willing to network with groups that won't weed out criminals, but it's afraid of Glenn Miller? That makes no sense.

We're looking at it two different ways. You say that the Order was betrayed by Glenn Miller. I see it that the Order destroyed the White Patriot Party by poor decisions made by Robert Mathews and David Lane and others. That doesn't mean those guys are bad or evil or didn't have good intentions, but those are the facts of the situation.

I still haven't seen any denunciation of the Order men for implicating Miller in the first place. He DID go to jail solely because of their testimony. Again, all completely needless if they'd given him the money anonymously or even better just plain left him alone. He's the aggrieved party much more than the offending party.

I wish I had a better knowledge of the cases, but I don't. What I know is what I've seen Miller post, and I haven't seen anybody dispute it. Is he wrong that a dozen people implicated him for accepting money before he ever said a word? If that's true, then how do you demand that he THEN display loyalty to them instead of his own wife and kids who stood by him the whole while he was, for one thing, hiding out David Lane, at the risk of his entire family's future?

You guys have the relationship with David Lane. Have you asked him whether he did in fact try to cut a deal? As Miller has claimed, and was reported in more than one paper? What is his answer?

What exactly could Miller have testified to anyway, beyond receiving money? He didn't know anything about these people, he had hardly met them.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #11
norcalnative1971
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Default Leadership in Action

I must most highly praise Billy Roper, Tom88, Ben Vinyard, and the rest of the White Revolution team for making what is certainly a profound decision. A painful decision, but one that honor demanded, that justice required.

To Alex Linder, I dare say, it's not too late, Alex, to change your ways. All of us make mistakes, and Glenn Miller has been your worst mistake in your political career. He's an anchor on you, and cutting him loose now will allow you to atone for your recent mistakes. Letting him weigh you down will mean you will continue to make mistakes, ever greater ones, until the point where you cannot be regarded as anything but a traitor beyond redemption.

To Glenn Miller. You know what I think of you. However, for the love of the Aryan Race, for honor, if you have even a shred of it left, please depart. The "jury" has spoken. Do you love yourself and glory so much, that you will continue to bring dishonor to all you associate with? Show us all that you have an even an iota of honor, and "retire" into the history books. Nothing you can do will change your deserved and earned legacy. Just go away...please.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #12
Tom88
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Welcome back Norcal!

Thanks for your support in this regard.

I think I've made my stance on Miller clear in the past, but only his first treason to his race; a mongrel offspring... I'm more of a Lurker than anything, really. At any rate, the Men of the Order are my heroes. They dared step to the plate and try to take things to the next level. The men that remained faithful to their race in the end, are worth a billion Glenn Millers. They may have wavered at one point or another, everyone does, but when it really mattered, they did what was right. The ones that betrayed their race are no better than the rat in question.

Something that's angered me from the moment that I realized it, is that he has the audacity to use "Rounder" as his handle. That's the code name that was given to him by the Order. That infuriates me to no end; the thought that he would use a name given to him by the men that he betrayed and to this day ridicules and berates. He's a traitor to our cause and our people in the lowest form.



-Tom Martin


Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalnative1971
I must most highly praise Billy Roper, Tom88, Ben Vinyard, and the rest of the White Revolution team for making what is certainly a profound decision. A painful decision, but one that honor demanded, that justice required.

To Alex Linder, I dare say, it's not too late, Alex, to change your ways. All of us make mistakes, and Glenn Miller has been your worst mistake in your political career. He's an anchor on you, and cutting him loose now will allow you to atone for your recent mistakes. Letting him weigh you down will mean you will continue to make mistakes, ever greater ones, until the point where you cannot be regarded as anything but a traitor beyond redemption.

To Glenn Miller. You know what I think of you. However, for the love of the Aryan Race, for honor, if you have even a shred of it left, please depart. The "jury" has spoken. Do you love yourself and glory so much, that you will continue to bring dishonor to all you associate with? Show us all that you have an even an iota of honor, and "retire" into the history books. Nothing you can do will change your deserved and earned legacy. Just go away...please.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #13
WRMC 14
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Thanks Norcal this means a lot coming from you. It was indeed a tough decision but enough is enough and we had to finally put our foot down. Whether Millers testimony put anybody in prison is irrelevant. Whether Order members allegedly testified against him first is irrelevant. What a lot of people don't seem to understand is the principle of HONOR. Let me give a quick defintion of Honor out of Websters dictionary " honor, n. public esteem;good name;privilege;credit;fame;glory;sense of moral standards; (usu. cap.) title;pl.civilities, v.confer honor; fuifill; respect; salute ." Glen Miller testified in federal court plain and simple. There is no sense of moral standards in that. Whether or not his testimony held any weight in that jury is irrelevant because next time (and beleive me if the man caved once he would do it again) he might know a little more and would once again spill the beans. White Revolution cannot and will not allow this to happen. We are throwing you a lifeline Alex. Please grab that lifeline..

Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalnative1971
I must most highly praise Billy Roper, Tom88, Ben Vinyard, and the rest of the White Revolution team for making what is certainly a profound decision. A painful decision, but one that honor demanded, that justice required.

To Alex Linder, I dare say, it's not too late, Alex, to change your ways. All of us make mistakes, and Glenn Miller has been your worst mistake in your political career. He's an anchor on you, and cutting him loose now will allow you to atone for your recent mistakes. Letting him weigh you down will mean you will continue to make mistakes, ever greater ones, until the point where you cannot be regarded as anything but a traitor beyond redemption.

To Glenn Miller. You know what I think of you. However, for the love of the Aryan Race, for honor, if you have even a shred of it left, please depart. The "jury" has spoken. Do you love yourself and glory so much, that you will continue to bring dishonor to all you associate with? Show us all that you have an even an iota of honor, and "retire" into the history books. Nothing you can do will change your deserved and earned legacy. Just go away...please.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #14
norcalnative1971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom88
Welcome back Norcal!

Thanks for your support in this regard.
You are most welcome! Thank you for standing for Honor & Justice!
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #15
norcalnative1971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRMC 14
Thanks Norcal this means a lot coming from you.
You are quite welcome! Display of genuine Leadership deserves praise from all Aryans.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #16
Draco
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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After Miller alternated between calling me a "poisonous liability to the White race" when I disagreed with him, and then when I made a post he liked, I was, "a big brained WN", I decided to completely ignore Miller. And not post in any threards pertaining to Miller, nor ever to reply to any of Millers posts. It seems most people did this, and it worked fine.

Garrett tells me Tom is a good guy, and I happen to agree with it.

However, it seems like WR is dominating this forum, or has Linder simply changed his user title to "member"? Is assuming WR is in control a correct estimate? If so, what changes will this bring, if any?
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We need to live our lives. One foot in racism, the other in reality and normalcy. They go together when you drop the things and people we don't need.

Currently 87% Sun, 13% Lightning.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #17
Phantasm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder
...
They approached him, he didn't approach them. And they could have given him the money anonymously, but they put everybody at risk by transferring the money in front of a whole bunch of people. Until he met them, he was legal and everything was going fine.

If you're going to rob banks and shoot people, you're going to jail if you get caught.
...
And that is an excellent summation of the irresponsible behavior which “The Order” demonstrated during their ridiculous crime spree. I'm just thankful that they didn't get Brother Miller and his family killed during this nonsense.

I applaud Alex Linder for his common sense on this particular issue... and his loyalty to Glenn Miller.

If I were you “Order enthusiasts” and fantasizers... I would consider dropping this crusade against Miller. Because the next step in this irritating little exercise is digging into actual case records and interviewing the “players” involved. You may not like what is uncovered during this process. Maybe the “heroes” you idolize aren't really heroes at all?

After being pressed... Glenn Miller had no problems airing everything out.
Do you militants feel the same way?
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #18
norcalnative1971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm
I'm just thankful that they didn't get Brother Miller and his family killed during this nonsense.
"Brother Miller"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm
I applaud Alex Linder for his common sense on this particular issue... and his loyalty to Glenn Miller.
Alex Linder's "loyalty" (subservience per an unknown cause) to Miller has superceded Linder's loyalty to the Aryan Race. Alex Linder has an opportunity to accept the "lifeline" the WR team has extended. Linder is too capable a man and potential leader to drown for Miller. I hope he takes the opportunity to move beyond Miller.
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #19
Tom88
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Default Takers for the Tabloid

I would just like to mention that Miller has said in the past that if anyone wants to take over his role as the "tabloid clerk" they're welcome to. I would imagine it would only consume a few hours a week and would entail only packaging them and sending them off. If anyone is interested in taking him up on that, now's the time. Let's get Alex away from that piece of shit for his own good. I would do it, but I'm stretched crazy thin as is.

-Tom
 
Old December 12th, 2004 #20
Ben Vinyard
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Draco,

Yes, WR has taken control of the forum until such a time as Mr. Linder is able to move VNNF to another server. We of course will offer any assistance necessary to aid in the transfer. Mr. Linder is in full control of the VNN website and we have no intention of interfering with the best propaganda vehicle in the movement. We intend to maintain our temporary control of the forum with the same spirit of freedom of dissent as Mr. Linder’s original intention. The only changes are that all known informants have been banned. I am not sure how long the transfer will take, but I would imagine—just a guess—at that time Mr. Linder will unban Miller and continue operations as usual but without two of the three administrators and without operating on the WR server.

Ben Vinyard


Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco
After Miller alternated between calling me a "poisonous liability to the White race" when I disagreed with him, and then when I made a post he liked, I was, "a big brained WN", I decided to completely ignore Miller. And not post in any threards pertaining to Miller, nor ever to reply to any of Millers posts. It seems most people did this, and it worked fine.

Garrett tells me Tom is a good guy, and I happen to agree with it.

However, it seems like WR is dominating this forum, or has Linder simply changed his user title to "member"? Is assuming WR is in control a correct estimate? If so, what changes will this bring, if any?
 
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