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Old January 13th, 2009 #1825
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,001
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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What did Gerdes do in response to my post # 1820 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1820 ?

Well, just what I expected the compulsive liar and whimpering coward to do.

In posts # 1821 to # 1824, he copied and pasted yet another repetition of the imbecilic, irrelevant and mostly already answered crap (see post # 1710 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1710 for my latest comments about some of that crap, which he posted on the "CODOH Revisionist Forum") that he has been hiding behind ever since my post # 1536 under http://206.41.127.17/showpost.php?p=...postcount=1536, again including at least one of his old lies (the one about my having run away from him on Topix, commented in my blog article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...th-update.html). He also mouthed off once more about my post # 1781 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1781, ignoring the further information about the Treblinka memorial that I gave to his sock-puppet T.F. Sheb in my post # 1793 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1793.

Of course Gerdes latest sack full of cattle manure isn’t enough to break the "ignore" deadlock and get our discussion going again, to make me dig up the answers previously provided to most of his imbecilic demands and questions and answer what few of those I haven’t answered yet because they came after I put Gerdes on "ignore" in my post # 1536 under http://206.41.127.17/showpost.php?p=...postcount=1536.

What Gerdes must do to break the "ignore" deadlock and get my discussion with him on this forum going again, as he well knows because I have told him many times, is to post a statement that reads as follows:

"I am prepared to, from now on, also answer questions and respond to challenges myself, and to address my opponent’s arguments and the evidence presented by my opponent (all of it)."

But that’s not about to happen, of course, because Fatso Gerdes:



it too much a



to post this simple statement.

So the ignore situation remains as concerns discussion on this forum.

However, I take the latest opportunity to comment about Gerdes’ latest hysterical hollering on the "CODOH Revisionist Forum", where he again mouthed off about me (and some other people he doesn’t like) although he well knows that I’ve been banned from that forum (the "Revisionist" geniuses couldn’t handle my arguments and thus took the coward’s way out). In his post of Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:35 on the CODOH thread http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4566 , the poor creature let fly against me as follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
And speaking of the dull one, here is a recent claim of his that he made on the VNN forum, with my response:

Quote:
Muehlenkamp:

"..., which would have to be removed first."


Gerdes:

Liar.

You say "covering most."

If "most" of it is allegedly covered, then some of it must be uncovered.

Prove it.

Let's see you locate / prove the existence of just one single "huge mass grave" at Treblinka that contains just one:

1 - Complete human body in a "wax fat transformation."

2 - Complete human skeleton.

3 - Complete human skull

4 - Complete human bone.

5 - Human bone fragment.

6 - Human tooth.

7 - Ounce of human ash.

8 - Spent bullet.

9 - Shell casing.


Just one dumb ass.

One.

Can you do it retardo?


Of course, the lying coward refuses to answer this simple question, as do all holocaustians, you included joachim.
Even as dumb a liar as Gerdes should know better than to lie so obviously, for he well knows that

a) I have responded to his silly demands before and
b) I only don’t respond to them again (at least when posted on this forum) because I have Gerdes on ignore until he posts this simple statement:

"I am prepared to, from now on, also answer questions and respond to challenges myself, and to address my opponent’s arguments and the evidence presented by my opponent (all of it)."

which is all I require to get our discussion on this forum going again.

Now, as he posted the above-quoted crap on the forum of my old friend Jonni "Hannover" Hargis, I’ll respond to it hereafter, mostly on hand of evidence I have shown many times before.

Regarding Gerdes problem with my statement that there is the concrete of a huge memorial covering most of the former mass graves area at Treblinka, which would have to be removed before an archaeological investigation of that site can be carried out, I refer the fellow once more to my post # 1793 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1793 , where I pointed his sock-puppet "T.F.Sheb" to several sources about the memorial at Treblinka, including photographs thereof. One of these sites contains the following information under http://www.scrapbookpages.com/poland...eblinka05.html (emphasis added):

Quote:
According to a pamphlet which I purchased at the Visitor's Center, "The great monument in Treblinka is a homage of the Polish people to those ashes lie under the concrete plates of the symbolic cemetery. It is one of the most tragic monuments of martyrdom in Poland."

My tour guide informed me that the ashes of the 800,000 people who were murdered here were dumped in this area and are now hidden underneath the concrete of the symbolic cemetery and by the grass and tiny flowers which cover the area.
So, contrary to what poor Gerdes tries to make believe, I don’t make things up. I usually know what I’m talking about.

Gerdes’ imbecilic "just one single" request (the relevance of which he has never even tried to explain, studiously avoiding all questions of mine in this respect):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Let's see you locate / prove the existence of just one single "huge mass grave" at Treblinka that contains just one:

1 - Complete human body in a "wax fat transformation."

2 - Complete human skeleton.

3 - Complete human skull

4 - Complete human bone.

5 - Human bone fragment.

6 - Human tooth.

7 - Ounce of human ash.

8 - Spent bullet.

9 - Shell casing.
is also not a big deal. The conclusive evidence to the murder of hundreds of thousands of people by gassing or shooting at Treblinka and the removal of their bodies first by burial and then by burning, which includes but is not limited to the exhibits shown in my posts # 172 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=172 , # 194 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=194 and # 777 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=777 , logically proves the existence of any number of mass graves containing any number of any type of human remains that can be logically expected to have remained on site under the known circumstances. This applies especially to the items "complete human skull", "complete human bone", "human bone fragment", "human tooth" and "ounce of human ash", which were not only described in criminal site investigation reports and/or eyewitness testimonies as having been found inside a mass grave or above the soil after having been dug up from the mass graves by robbery diggers, but can also (except for the "human tooth") be seen on photographs matching these descriptions.

Human teeth lying on the Treblinka site or picked up by robbery diggers were described in the following Treblinka exhibits, quoted in my post # 172 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=172 :

Exhibit A.3.1.1: Vassili Grossman's article about Treblinka, as quoted under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/955...ml#reply-95592 . Relevant excerpt:

Quote:
The earth is throwing out crushed bones, teeth, clothes, papers. It does not want to keep secrets.
Exhibit A.3.1.6: Excerpt from a Polish militia report about an action against robbery diggers on the Treblinka site, quoted in a Polish newspaper article about the "Gold Rush in Treblinka", the translation of which is under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 :

Quote:
"With the grave robbers we found golden rings, crowns and porcelain teeth with gold and silver inlays."
Human skulls, complete human bones, bone fragments and humans ashes, possibly also teeth where the nature of human remains mentioned is not further specified, and also the smell of decomposing corpses, are mentioned in the following contemporary official sources, also quoted in the aforementioned post # 172:

Exhibit A.3.1.4: Polish site investigation reports of 13 November and 29 December 1945, as quoted in my article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...treblinka.html . Relevant excerpts:

Quote:
The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.
Quote:
In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay.
Exhibit A.3.1.5: Site description by Karol Ogrodowczyk, member of an inspection delegation from Warsaw in 1947, quoted in a Polish newspaper article about the "Gold Rush in Treblinka", the translation of which is under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 :

Quote:
"The fields are dug up and rummaged through, the pits are about 10 meters deep, bones are lying around and objects of all kinds, shoes, spoons, forks, chandeliers, hair of wigs worn by Jewesses. In the air hangs the stench of decomposing corpses. … The foul smell so numbed me and my colleagues that we vomited and felt an unusual rasping in the throat. (...) Under every tree seekers of gold and gems have dug holes (...) Between the trees cavort local peasants, eager to find treasures. When we ask them 'What are you doing here?' they give no answer."
Photos matching the area described and the human remains thereon can be found under item A.3.2. in the aforementioned post # 172. Some of them are shown below:









The first two of these photos are featured on the site http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html, which also shows a different printout of the fourth photo:



that is captioned "TURNED UP EARTH #4". The description in Exhibit A.3.1.4 above suggests that this "turned up earth" largely consists of human ashes, and one can clearly see there numerous white shards that are obviously bone fragments – they remind me of similar white shards I found during my recent trip to Sobibor, see under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...th-update.html and http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/636...o-Sobibor.html .

This photo, which shows a number of human skulls lying in the sand on the Treblinka site, is from the Polish newspaper article translated under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506, the context suggesting that it belongs to the site inspection in 1947 in which Karol Ogrodowczyk took part:



This photo is from the same Polish newspaper article and was obviously part of the Polish militia report mentioned quoted as Exhibit A.3.1.6. It shows Polish militiamen with robbery-diggers they rounded up on the Treblinka site, and a line of bones and skulls in front of some of the latter:



The only types of human remains from Gerdes’ list that are neither mentioned in the above-quoted descriptions nor shown on photographs matching those descriptions are complete human skeletons and complete human bodies in wax-fat transformation. Both were found during more recent archaeological investigations at Belzec (see under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...007754580.html ) and Sobibor (see under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...th-update.html). If they are not mentioned in any source describing the physical evidence at Treblinka (except for Ogrodowczyk’s mentioning the "stench of decomposing corpses", see Exhibit 3.1.5 above, which may however have also come from parts of human bodies still containing decomposing tissue), there are two possibilities. One is that body-burning and subsequent crushing of cremation leftovers was more thorough at Treblinka than it was at Belzec and Sobibor, and therefore no whole human bodies or skeletons were left behind. The other is that no one has yet dug deep enough in those among the Treblinka graves that have whole skeletons and/or bodies in wax-fat transformation at their bottom (mind that only one of the Treblinka mass graves, the one described in the Polish site investigation report of 13.11.1945 quoted in Exhibit A.3.1.4 , has so far been excavated to the bottom, and that not all of the mass graves at Belzec and Sobibor also contained whole skeletons or whole bodies in wax-fat transformation).

In any case, the physical evidence to large-scale mass murder at Treblinka is corroborative of the documentary and eyewitness evidence with or without these specific types of human remains, so it doesn’t really matter if such are found besides ashes, bones and bone fragments and teeth in a future archaeological investigation at Treblinka.

As to spent bullets and shell casings, the one among the Treblinka mass graves that may contain a high amount of both – the comparatively shallow mass grave at the "Lazarett", where old and/or sick arrivals who would otherwise have held up the march to the gas chambers were shot in the back of the head – has not yet been identified, it being possible (according to the Polish site investigation report of 13.11.1945 from which one of the quotes in Exhibit A.3.1.4 is taken) that it was completely cleared out and made into a deeper rubbish pit still during camp times. This does not mean that the shootings at the "Lazarett" have not been proven, however. They were proven beyond a reasonable doubt, on hand of eyewitness testimonies including those of the defendants themselves, at the first Düsseldorf Treblinka Trial ending in 1965, which is discussed in more detail in my blog article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...051943077.html . The two former SS-men who did the shooting, Willi Mentz and August Wilhelm Miete, were sentenced to lifetime imprisonment at that trial.

Shell casings apparently used for shooting people have been found at Sobibor, and are mentioned in the 2001 archaeological report by Prof. Andrzej Kola from which the descriptions of the mass graves quoted under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...th-update.html were taken. I have recently obtained the complete translation of that article and hereafter quote, in their context, the parts mentioning bullets or shell casings. Emphases are mine:

Quote:
Object B
(Hectare XXV, acres 23, 33. Digs 2/01, 2a/01, 2b/01)
The remains of a smallish building, probably wooden, completely demolished, with its inside deep in sandy ground up to 1.3 m. Horizontally, in its ground level, it measured around 4.0 x 3.5 m. Its lower part shortened to 3.5 x 3.2 m. The interpretation of relicts marked as object B, is quite problematic. In the relict structures of the object – in a form of sandy decay mixed with uncertain organic parts, there aren’t any elements that could help us to identify its function or construction undoubtedly (e.g. bricks, PAPA, nails or traces of planks). Judging by the layout of relicts we can assume it to have been a smallish barrack with not a very deep cellar or a building half- located in the ground. On the contrary to object A, among its relicts many objects belonging to the victims or Jewish workers of the camp III, were found. Most of those were only partial, such as: glass parts of dishes, bottles and metal soap trays, empty tins, pieces of leather shoes, parts of buckets, and many more metal objects in a very advanced decay. Some of the better preserved objects were taken into reconstruction for the future exposition. These were 73 fragments of female combs, 12 fragments of hair pins, 46 fragments of glasses, 19 glass lenses, 11 perfume bottles, 19 carbine (Mauser) and pistol shells, 3 Polish coins, a toothbrush, 2 necklaces, 9 rubber ends of walking sticks, 4 fragments of scissors, 2 locker keys, etc. 12 pairs of false teeth and fragments of torch batteries were found there as well.
[…]
Object D
(Hectare XXV, acre 33. Digs 4/01, 4a/01, 4b/01)
Trace of a small, wooden building, of a rectangular shape measuring around 5.2 x 3.0m. Alike building , after which relict called object B remained – located right to the north from object D, here as well all the wooden elements of construction were demolished. From the archaeological relict structures we can assume that there was a little cellar or it was situated half above the ground with its depth up to around 1, 50 m. At this stage of exploring camp III not much can be said about its function. What attracts attention are numerous objects found in its cultural layers – most probably belonging to victims, such as: false teeth, glasses and a glass lens, fragments of combs and hair pins, fragments of mirrors, fragments of plastic cigar holders, soap trays, underwear buttons, a spoon, fragments of a razor, empty bottles of perfume, belt buckles, knives, fragments of scissors, a razor blade. Several Mauser and Mosin shells were found there, as well as pistol shells. From the construction of the building, numerous, very damaged, metal objects were found.
[…]
In the cultural layers of object E, numerous objects belonging to the victims or to camp III’s crew were found. The objects started appearing directly below the surface of humus and were located in all the archaeological structures of object E. Those were: hair pins and combs, different kinds of buttons, glasses and a case for it, spoons, forks, table knives, scissors, metal boxes, belt buckles, SPRZACZKI, lighters, fragments of shaving razors and razor blades, envelopes and parts of watches, cufflinks, empty bottles and medicine packages, relicts of mirrors, etc. What attracts attention is an enormous pile of machine gun bullets (Mauser Mosin) – around 1830 pieces, found in the central part of the smaller barrack, covering the area of only a dozen of square meters. All the pieces shot to the ground, hence deformed. 9 pistol bullets, 3 MOSIN bullets and 1 pistol bullet were found here as well. In this barrack then, lying people were being shot to, probably sick and weak ones.
In the light of above findings, a question appears: what was the function of that enormous barrack? In its northern, attached part (smaller barrack), undoubtedly, people were shot. The enormous pile of bullets found, let us think that shots were aimed at people lying down, otherwise (when shot diagonally), bullets having left the body would have been shattered.
Future archaeological research at Treblinka, which I hope will take place despite the presence of the memorial, is likely to find bullets and/or shell cases there as well.

So, while I have not met all demands from Gerdes' above-quoted list (which he obviously knows are irrelevant, hence his dodging my frequent questions about their relevance earlier in his discussion), I have responded to all of them to the best that my current knowledge of the evidence allows.

If Gerdes had anything resembling balls, he would now post a link to this post on the CODOH thread on which he mouthed off about me.

But that is not going to happen, of course. Fatso Gerdes:



it too much a



to show his CODOH buddies how the crap he writes on CODOH gets thrashed in this VNN thread.