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Old November 23rd, 2007 #70
Sean Martin
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,397
Sean Martin
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I have been reading your posts and I must say your knowledge of guns is straight out of a gun magazine and impeccably terrible. Arenít guns banned in Australia?

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Originally Posted by Derrick MacThomas View Post
Get hold of a book called Survival Guns.
It has a table of almost every calibre. The table has a lot of information, which includes the impact energy delivered by each calibre.
There are much better books, get one on reloading or the like they show not only different calibers but different loads and slugs.

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In revolvers .44 magnum is the ultimate calibre, but far too large for a concealed carry, so .38 special is a satisfactory compromise.
So what about the 500S&W, 460 Magnum or the 454? All these dwarf the 44 magnum. The 38 sp with the right load will be more than satisfactory.

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.25 and .32 are next to useless. Too small, too light, too slow.
9mm has only half the stopping power of .45 ACP.
Ok then why have so many people been killed with 25 autos? Why have even the most worthless of Negroes been able to kill people with cheap low caliber guns? A 25 auto with plain Wal-Mart ammo will crack through a 2x4 at 21 feet, unless you have a body part that is tougher than a seasoned 2x4 I think it will penetrate any part of a person.

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This is why .45 ACP will go through the front plate of a ni--er's skull and kill it with 100% reliability, but 9mm does not have that level of reliability.
so you are saying a person can shoot a 9mm directly into the skull of a Negro and not kill it?

The 45 acp isnít famous for itís penetration it is famous for itís knockdown power meaning it puts a lot of energy into a large space on the target. It is huge and bulky. I have seen you sing the praises of carrying a 45 auto but who does? Even the gun writers that praise it donít carry it. Cops and feds who can carry a gun in the open donít carry 45 autoís for a reason. They are heavy, they can only hold 8+1 rounds, they donít have penetration, they are not as accurate as newer calibers and they are just not as effective as modern calibers. The 40 S&W will do everything a 45 acp will do and more.

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9mm will deliver an instant kill only if it strikes heart or brain, unlike .45 ACP which will deliver an instant kill with any torso hit within 25 metres of the muzzle.
No the 45 caliber will not do all of that. You donít know the dynamics of getting shot. A person can get shot in the leg and sever an a artery and die within a few seconds of blood loss. If shot in the torso by any gun you can hit the spleen, lung, kidney, intestines, liver or heart. All these hits will stop the average person.

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Shoot someone with 9mm and the ------ will probably be able to return fire and kill you, even if he is bleeding to death from a lung hit.
I donít know what planet you are from but on earth a shot to the lung will put anyone down. People donít return fire after being hit in the lungs. First of all your lungs fill up with air and blood. Not only do you have the immediate pain but extreme asphyxiation, which comes faster than holding you breath. It is possible to live after being shot in the lungs but I havenít seen anyone who will keep coming with 9mm hollow points ripping through their lungs.

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.223, for example, delivers only one third of the impact energy to the target that 7.62x51mm provides, which is one of the reasons why the M16/AR15 are fishtank ornaments or mouse guns. I speak from the perspective of a former soldier who has had to fire a weapon in anger.
Where are you going to shoot the 7.62? It will over penetrate the target and go through the wall behind it and the kid behind the wall. Also they are usually twice as long as a 223 and twice as heavy. You donít have a good second shot as the gun climbs out of control on rapid fire. You canít shoot it in an area with homes or people. It is to heavy to carry and maneuver effectively. You canít carry a third of the rounds you can with a 223.

There is a reason people went to the 223. It delivers more firepower in short distances where most battles take place. The 7.62 is a great caliber if you are in a hidden place playing the sniper roll but to carry one and face the enemy it is not the best idea which is why those large calibers were abandoned by soldiers.

Just so you know soldiers werenít forced to take these weapons they begged the military for something better. After they got overrun in Korea while carrying high caliber guns because they couldnít lay the proper amount of ammo down they asked for something that could put more rounds in more targets.

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One of the worst decisions the US military made was to scrap the M14 and adopt the M16 mouse gun.
Have you ever carried an M-14? It is massive compared to the M-16. I can imagine someone trying to maneuver an M-14 in a building or heavily wooded area. Also you would be to worn out from lugging the thing to make effective shots and you could only carry a third of the rounds. This would be great if you faced your enemy from a hilltop at 500 yards but most battles take place at a couple hundred feet where firepower and maneuverability are the key elements.

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Another really bad decision was to switch from .45 ACP to 9mm in pistols.
The US military now has rifle and pistol calibres that are not man killers.
This makes a grunt's life really difficult and unnecessarily dangerous.
When a grunt shoots someone he wants to kill the bastard instantly. To do anything else risks the grunt's life because the target may be functional enough to return fire.
Ok again I donít know what planet you live on but 9mmís kill and they have killed a lot of people. Get the proper round and they deliver a lot of penetration, knock-down and they will rip apart anyone who gets struck by one.

Also what is the deal with you love for these heavy guns? Who is going carry a 45ACP 1911 around on a hot day? You canít conceal one easily, they are heavy after a couple hours and everyone I know who has tried to carry one takes it off the first chance they get.

Also Bob Mundon took a 38sp a snub nose and hit a 10-inch balloon at 200 yards. Sure he is extremely above average but if he can make a head shot with a factory gun and ammo at 600 feet surely the average person could do the same at 50 feet. The 38sp or 9mm with the right ammo will penetrate anything you need in a pistol situation. Sure if you have a body armor clad sniper with a 300 Win Mag at 1,000 yards shooting at you any pistol caliber wonít help. But I guarantee a 9mm wonít bounce off anyoneís skull anytime soon.
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