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Old November 23rd, 2007 #78
Derrick MacThomas
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Derrick MacThomas
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Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
I have been reading your posts and I must say your knowledge of guns is straight out of a gun magazine and impeccably terrible. Aren’t guns banned in Australia?
No, they are not.
Modern weapons are, but we are still allowed to possess 19th century technology such as bolt and lever action if the rifles and shooters are licensed.
I have been shooting for 42 years and spent about a decade with the Australian Army, so my knowledge is not out of magazines.
You are obnoxious.

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There are much better books, get one on reloading or the like they show not only different calibers but different loads and slugs.
Yes, but a book on reloading will not discuss the merits of different weapons.

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So what about the 500S&W, 460 Magnum or the 454? All these dwarf the 44 magnum. The 38 sp with the right load will be more than satisfactory.
Possibly, but they do not exist here in Australia. Those calibres are outside my frame of reference.

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Ok then why have so many people been killed with 25 autos? Why have even the most worthless of Negroes been able to kill people with cheap low caliber guns? A 25 auto with plain Wal-Mart ammo will crack through a 2x4 at 21 feet, unless you have a body part that is tougher than a seasoned 2x4 I think it will penetrate any part of a person.
That has not been my experience.
On paper, a .25 has less hitting power than a .22.

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so you are saying a person can shoot a 9mm directly into the skull of a Negro and not kill it?
That is correct.
The thickness of the forehead bone of the negro skull has been known to stop 9mm and .38.

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The 45 acp isn’t famous for it’s penetration it is famous for it’s knockdown power meaning it puts a lot of energy into a large space on the target. It is huge and bulky. I have seen you sing the praises of carrying a 45 auto but who does? Even the gun writers that praise it don’t carry it. Cops and feds who can carry a gun in the open don’t carry 45 auto’s for a reason. They are heavy, they can only hold 8+1 rounds, they don’t have penetration, they are not as accurate as newer calibers and they are just not as effective as modern calibers. The 40 S&W will do everything a 45 acp will do and more.
The only people here who use 40 S&W are the New South Wales state police.
Licensed pistol shooters here are limited to .38 or smaller. Heaven forbid we might be able to outgun the police.

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No the 45 caliber will not do all of that. You don’t know the dynamics of getting shot. A person can get shot in the leg and sever an a artery and die within a few seconds of blood loss. If shot in the torso by any gun you can hit the spleen, lung, kidney, intestines, liver or heart. All these hits will stop the average person.
Er, I do know the dynamics.
I have fired a few shots in anger courtesy of the army and I know what happens when someone is hit.
Take into account the adrenalin factor.

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I don’t know what planet you are from but on earth a shot to the lung will put anyone down. People don’t return fire after being hit in the lungs. First of all your lungs fill up with air and blood. Not only do you have the immediate pain but extreme asphyxiation, which comes faster than holding you breath. It is possible to live after being shot in the lungs but I haven’t seen anyone who will keep coming with 9mm hollow points ripping through their lungs.
I have two good friends who were shot through a lung, continued to fight and are still around to tell the tale.
One was shot in Stalingrad by a 7.62x54 and lost a lung. The other took a 7.62x39 in Vietnam and lost half a lung.
Both continued to fight and the younger of the two did not at first realise that he had been hit.
Adrenalin will do that.

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Where are you going to shoot the 7.62? It will over penetrate the target and go through the wall behind it and the kid behind the wall. Also they are usually twice as long as a 223 and twice as heavy. You don’t have a good second shot as the gun climbs out of control on rapid fire. You can’t shoot it in an area with homes or people. It is to heavy to carry and maneuver effectively. You can’t carry a third of the rounds you can with a 223.
YOu appear to have no combat experience whatsoever. If you did, you would not say such things.
You also indulge in the American stupidity of putting a weapon on automatic and spraying like an undisciplined nigger gangster, then wondering WTF you run of ammunition.
A well-trained infantry rifleman works on the basis of one shot one kill.
Every round you fire has to be replaced by the supply system. A supply system can be disrupted and you become vulnerable while being resupplied.
Ammunition should be expended sparingly, very sparingly.
That is one of the signs of a well trained and well disciplined soldier.

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There is a reason people went to the 223. It delivers more firepower in short distances where most battles take place. The 7.62 is a great caliber if you are in a hidden place playing the sniper roll but to carry one and face the enemy it is not the best idea which is why those large calibers were abandoned by soldiers.
.223 is not a man killer.
I know people who have put multiple 5.56mm rounds into men and watched them keep on running.
I had the good fortune to use an FN FAL L1A1, so I did not have to worry about whether or not my rounds would kill.

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Just so you know soldiers weren’t forced to take these weapons they begged the military for something better. After they got overrun in Korea while carrying high caliber guns because they couldn’t lay the proper amount of ammo down they asked for something that could put more rounds in more targets.
Really!
I suppose that would be why US soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq are begging and screaming for the army to take M14s out of mothballs?
Take a look at the news wire pix sometime. There are plenty of M14s turning up over there and the word is that US soldiers are screaming for M14s to replace their mouse guns.

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Have you ever carried an M-14? It is massive compared to the M-16. I can imagine someone trying to maneuver an M-14 in a building or heavily wooded area. Also you would be to worn out from lugging the thing to make effective shots and you could only carry a third of the rounds. This would be great if you faced your enemy from a hilltop at 500 yards but most battles take place at a couple hundred feet where firepower and maneuverability are the key elements.
No, I carried an FN FAL L1A1. I believe that it is about the same weight, perhaps slightly heavier.
If your weapon is too heavy, you are not fit enough.
If you cannot conduct minor infantry tactics such as fire and movement with a real rifle then you are not well enough trained and you are not fit enough.

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Ok again I don’t know what planet you live on but 9mm’s kill and they have killed a lot of people. Get the proper round and they deliver a lot of penetration, knock-down and they will rip apart anyone who gets struck by one.
Yes they have and they do, but not on a reliable basis.
A 9mm MIGHT kill you. A .45 WILL kill you.

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Also what is the deal with you love for these heavy guns? Who is going carry a 45ACP 1911 around on a hot day? You can’t conceal one easily, they are heavy after a couple hours and everyone I know who has tried to carry one takes it off the first chance they get.
Because I insist on a weapon that will do the job, which is to kill the enemy with the first shot.
Anyone who thinks that a Colt or an M14 is 'too heavy' is not up to combat fitness.
After a couple of days in the bush with a 40kg pack, an FN rifle, a spare belt for the M60, perhaps a claymore or a spare battery for the radio the rifle should be as light as a twig.
In my regiment even the girls in the HQ support staff had no difficulty handling an FN rifle, or an M60 in the bush.
Are you saying that they are fitter and stronger than you?

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Also Bob Mundon took a 38sp a snub nose and hit a 10-inch balloon at 200 yards. Sure he is extremely above average but if he can make a head shot with a factory gun and ammo at 600 feet surely the average person could do the same at 50 feet. The 38sp or 9mm with the right ammo will penetrate anything you need in a pistol situation. Sure if you have a body armor clad sniper with a 300 Win Mag at 1,000 yards shooting at you any pistol caliber won’t help. But I guarantee a 9mm won’t bounce off anyone’s skull anytime soon.
Frankly, I am surprised that (a) a .38 round travelled 200 metres and that (b) it hit a target smaller than the USS Kittyhawk.
Anyone who tries for a head shot at anything more than point blank range is an idiot. Pumped full of adrenalin you will be shaking like a leaf and unable to aim accurately. Shoot for the largest target, the torso.
People who like to show how clever they are by going for difficult headshots at range will end up dead.