View Single Post
Old June 14th, 2008 #62
Roberto Muehlenkamp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,001
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Now Roberta, same as above, for the following photos, give us the name of the photographer, the date the photo(s) were taken and the location in the camp that they were allegedly taken in. That is just a start. When you can do that, we will get into the analysis of the photos.

1 -

http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg

2 -


http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg
Again quite an impertinent request, coming as it does from who carries the burden of proving that these photographs do not show what they show according to their sources and all associated evidence. What I know about these photographs I have written in post # 55:

Quote:
This photo of skulls on the Treblinka site:

18. http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg
, which is included in that newspaper article, may be related to the Ogrodowczyk inspection/investigation as well.

On the other hand, this photo:

19. http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg

shows the result of a Polish militia action against robbery diggers and must have been part of the corresponding militia report. In my translation of the Polish newspaper article about the "Gold Rush in Treblinka", this photo is addressed in some detail:
Quote:
In one of the huts in Wólka we got to see a unique photo of this action - perhaps the only one that survived. No one had so far published it. A scene in the open field: soldiers armed with machine pistols are standing around a group of villagers. The women with headscarves and long skirts, as if on harvest. Only there are spades instead of sickles in their hands. The men with berets and jackets, with spades. Piled up in front of them are skulls and limb bones. No consternation is to be seen on the faces. Those arrested know that they have nothing to fear.

We figure how many inhabitants of Wólka, Grądy and Prostyń may recognize their parents and grandparents on this photo. We read the report about the roundup, which the head of the unit from Ostrowa presented to his superiors: "With the grave robbers we found golden rings, crowns and porcelain teeth with gold and silver inlays."

In the archives there is no indication that anyone was put on trial for pilfering graves. The show-off action was completed, photos of those arrested were made, a report was sent out, the military returned to its barracks, the grave robbers - to Treblinka. The intensive rummaging doesn't stop for the next 15 years.

"The people have learned the difference between almonds and diamonds," says the house owner whom we show the photo. For a long time he studies the faces on the photograph. He doesn't want to reveal who he recognized, but he admits: "These are no anonymous people". Several times he repeats that, were we to mention his name in the "Gazeta", the neighbors would set fire to his house.
The photo shown under http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg is obviously from the militia report quoted in the Polish newspaper article about the "Gold Rush in Treblinka", whose authors interviewed a villager about this photo. The villager reluctantly admitted that he recognized acquaintances of his on this photo and asked the authors not to mention his name, as this would get him into trouble with neighbors who or whose relative had taken part in the "gold rush".

Don’t you read my posts before hitting the keyboard, Mr. Gerdes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
BTW Roberta, tell us how you first became aware of those last two photos.
Tell me, Gerdes, did you not read my translation of the Polish article about the "Gold Rush in Treblinka", the one that is available under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/588...Treblinka.html and has been mentioned many times throughout this discussion, and of which the "Gold Rush" photographs are a part?

Or did you read it with those usual tomato slices covering your eyes, which kept you from seeing the photographs included in that article?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
This is real simple Roberta. Just give the information that has been asked, nothing more, nothing less. But please feel free to expound on the last question I asked you.
What information I have has been given, even though Mr. Gerdes never even tried to explain the relevance of his demands and even though, in what concerns the photographs, it is up to him to provide indications that would call the accuracy of their sources' referring them to Treblinka into question, and not my job to provide further information about these photographs.

Now how about you doing something for a change, Mr. Gerdes?

How about you getting up your fat Nazi ass and doing something other than yell for exhibits of minor or no relevance or for information about such exhibits, instead of, say, trying to answer my above questions?

You’re in no position to play the expectant princess, Gerdes. My case has been made, with or without photographs. But I still have to see any evidence, however tiny and insignificant, that would support your "transit camp" theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Roberta:
"Actually common sense suggests that the deputy commandant of Treblinka II extermination camp would photograph things inside Treblinka II extermination camp and not a labor camp that he had nothing to do with."

The sand / gravel quarry was not "in" the labor camp Treblinka I.
No, but it was by that labor camp and the reason for that labor camp’s existence, and had nothing to do with Treblinka II extermination camp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
But now that you mention it Roberta, If common sense suggests that the deputy commandant of Treblinka II would photograph things inside Treblinka II, then would you please present into evidence all the photos that "common sense" tells us that he would have taken?

You know, like the piles of the alleged hundreds and hundreds of thousands of bodies?
Thanks for showing how little common sense you have, Mr. Gerdes. Franz was not only acting against instructions received when taking those photographs (why did they have instructions not to take photographs at those camps, Mr. Gerdes?), he was taking them for his private memory album. And it would therefore not be surprising if he photographed only the "nice" parts of his job, like his comrades, the Treblinka "zoo" for the SS guards and the excavators as he seems to have been an excavator buff, but not the stinking piles of bodies inside the mass graves. Would you have included photos of stinking piles of bodies in your memory photo album if you had been in Franz's place, Mr. Gerdes? Think before writing.

On the other hand, it may be that Franz was sick enough to also include such photos in his album, considering that, as was mentioned by German public prosecutor Blank, some photos had been torn out of the album and the captions erased by the time Franz was arrested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
How about just one photo of just one dead body?

Just one Roberta.

One.
Your demand might be pertinent if the accuracy of the Treblinka evidence would necessarily imply that such a photograph exists. But as there are good reasons compatible with the Treblinka evidence why such photo need not exist, your demand is nothing more than a cheap publicity trick that may impress suckers but only looks silly to people with brains inside their heads.

And as you like to play silly games, I’ll add another question to the eight in my previous post, one that is closely related to question number 2 and therefore becomes number 3, the following questions being renumbered accordingly:

1. Provide any indication he can come up with that, contrary to what the becomes apparent from all source references and all associated evidence, photos # 1 to # 5 were not taken in the area of Treblinka extermination camp during or after its liberation;

2. Explain what, if not a corner of a mass grave in which the bodies are mostly covered by wooden planks and what looks like tarpaulin sheet, photo # 5 under http://holocaust-info.dk/treblinka/i...mass_grave.htm is supposed to show;

3. Explain what, if not dead bodies or parts of dead bodies, the figures I pointed out on the “mass graves” photograph, see under http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...grave_edit.jpg , are supposed to be.

4. Regarding those of the excavator photos that Alex Bay managed to locate inside the area of Treblinka II as shown on the September 1944 photograph (see the quotes in my post # 54) explain what these excavators could possibly have been doing in what Gerdes claims was a "transit camp".

5. Regarding the marked-up air photo shown under http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg , answer the question what, if not mass graves in a section of the camp where eyewitnesses described mass graves – namely what that would be compatible with your "transit camp" theory – the ground scarring shapes I pointed out are supposed to have been.

6. Regarding the ground photos shown under the following links:

http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html

http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg

http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg

http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg

, answer the question what, if not parts of the former Treblinka extermination camp and especially the burial area described in the Polish site investigation reports of 13 November and 29 December 1945 quoted in my article Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure … under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...treblinka.html , these photos are supposed to show.

7. Regarding the above-mentioned site investigation reports, answer the question why, i.e. on the basis of what rules or standards of evidence he can show us, Gerdes doesn’t include these written descriptions of the physical evidence on site in the record of physical evidence to the Treblinka mass killings.

8. Regarding the documentary and eyewitness evidence listed in my Topix post # 482 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p23#c482 , answer the question why, i.e. on the basis of what rules or standards of evidence he can show us, Gerdes doesn’t include this documentary and eyewitness evidence in the record of evidence to the Treblinka mass killings.

9. Regarding his claim that Treblinka was a "transit camp", answer the question where the about 750,000 people deported to Treblinka in 1942/43 are supposed to have been "transited" to from there, and show evidence regarding their transportation to such places and their accommodation there. As the Germans would have had no reason to destroy the records of an innocuous resettlement operation, there should be plenty such evidence around.

Nine questions for you, Mr. Gerdes. As I said before, it’s time for you to get up your fat and lazy Nazi ass.