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Old October 29th, 2008 #41
Art Cast
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Originally Posted by Summer View Post
Instead of fish and chicken why not have a nice piece of steak, some kind of read meat? Or is red meat out?
Red meat is fine,although the vegetarian mafia rails against it continually.You do have to avoid mass produced junk,however.Red meat mass produced by conglomerates,wrapped in plastic and sitting on a supermarket shelf probably is as bad as they claim.
Stuff like free range pork,grass fed beef raised by a local farmer and (especially) wild game is an entirely different story and is nutritious,beneficial and much tastier.Incidentally "red meat' is a bit of a misnomer.One thing I learned from butchering my own meat is that the meat rapidly oxidizes and turns grey.This is normal and not indicative of meat turning bad.However commercial outlets generally dye the meat (often by chemicals in the feed)red.



The steak on the top is typical store bought dye injected crap.The steak on the bottom is what natural meat looks like (although game like,venison,moose,etc. have no where near as much fat).


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Old October 29th, 2008 #42
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That is why I buy my meat products at butcher shops. Do they have butcher shops anywhere in America near where everyone lives? I don't remember seeing any in California, but I didn't look either.
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Old October 29th, 2008 #43
Andy Bauer
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Let me tell guys something,

I was a Vegan for about a year, that was the most depressing year of my life. I was religious about veganism, ate nothing but soy products and fruits and vegetables. I also ate rice and grains. It must have something to do with testosterone levels, because man, I was drive-less. I had no urge to do anything. Maybe veganism only works for some people? I started eating fish again, particularly salmon. It was like being touched by an angel; maybe it was just me? I don't know, but veganism certainly can't be good for genes or future children.
 
Old October 29th, 2008 #44
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Originally Posted by Andy Bauer View Post
Let me tell guys something,

I was a Vegan for about a year, that was the most depressing year of my life. I was religious about veganism, ate nothing but soy products and fruits and vegetables. I also ate rice and grains. It must have something to do with testosterone levels, because man, I was drive-less. I had no urge to do anything. Maybe veganism only works for some people? I started eating fish again, particularly salmon. It was like being touched by an angel; maybe it was just me? I don't know, but veganism certainly can't be good for genes or future children.
I agree with reltih145 on natural meat. OTOH, my thing has been the blood type diet. Some people actually need meat and for others it is not good for them. In my case, not so good. I am having salmon tonight, in fact. We pick up the organic chicken. No butchers around here with natural stuff or we would buy it.

@reltih145: Ever had the real virginia ham? I knew a retired butcher that used to tell me about hanging meat and letting it get a mold on the outside. He said it made the best ham and steaks, etc.
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Old October 29th, 2008 #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bauer View Post
Let me tell guys something,

I was a Vegan for about a year, that was the most depressing year of my life. I was religious about veganism, ate nothing but soy products and fruits and vegetables. I also ate rice and grains. It must have something to do with testosterone levels, because man, I was drive-less. I had no urge to do anything. Maybe veganism only works for some people? I started eating fish again, particularly salmon. It was like being touched by an angel; maybe it was just me? I don't know, but veganism certainly can't be good for genes or future children.
Something they wont tell you about soy.
Quote:
As women move into menopause, their bodies begin to decrease estrogen production, resulting in hot flashes and other uncomfortable physical symptoms. Soy products such as tofu, tempeh and miso are rich sources of isoflavones, an estrogen-like substance found in plants. Therefore, soy foods are a simple, natural hormone-replacement therapy.

"Soy?!" you say, slightly aghast? You are not alone. Many women I have counseled have either not tried soy products or have not enjoyed the variety they tasted. With this article, I hope to introduce you to the benefits of soy, and to some simple -- and tasty! -- ways to incorporate it into your diet.
How Much Soy Do You Need?

Several studies have attempted to pinpoint the amount of soy needed to produce a decrease in hot flashes, with successful results varying from 40 to 50 mg of soy isoflavones per day. Translation: To decrease hot flashes, you may need one to four servings of soy-based foods per day.
So if it can be used as an estrogen supplement, it can't be too healthy for men.
 
Old October 29th, 2008 #46
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No pregnant woman should eat anything containing the word 'soy' in it. Most pre-made foods bought in stores all contain soya lectin in it which effects boys (especially.)

Moldy meat? Sounds, mmm, yummy.
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Old October 29th, 2008 #47
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Originally Posted by cillian View Post
Something they wont tell you about soy.


So if it can be used as an estrogen supplement, it can't be too healthy for men.
Soy has been proven to induce odd behavior in mice - super aggression as well as a tendency to abandon one's own children. Soy is pig feed, humans shouldn't eat it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bauer View Post
Let me tell guys something,

I was a Vegan for about a year, that was the most depressing year of my life. I was religious about veganism, ate nothing but soy products and fruits and vegetables. I also ate rice and grains. It must have something to do with testosterone levels, because man, I was drive-less. I had no urge to do anything. Maybe veganism only works for some people? I started eating fish again, particularly salmon. It was like being touched by an angel; maybe it was just me? I don't know, but veganism certainly can't be good for genes or future children.
Humans are all Omnivores, such a diet works for nobody, I hope you didn't seriously damage your body.
 
Old October 29th, 2008 #48
Art Cast
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@reltih145: Ever had the real virginia ham? I knew a retired butcher that used to tell me about hanging meat and letting it get a mold on the outside. He said it made the best ham and steaks, etc.
Only on Christmas,New Years or Easter.



I'm a little conflicted about long hanging times on meat.True,the longer you hang it,the tastier the meat(not sure about the effect on nutrition),but you run the risk of some of the meat turning bad.Hanging the meat until a slight mold appears on the outside is risky because if you don't butcher quick enough you run the risk of getting green meat close to the bone.I'm kind of cheap so I want all my bones and tough meat for soups and stews.Generally speaking,the older the animal the longer I prefer to hang it .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer View Post
Moldy meat? Sounds, mmm, yummy.
Well,you do cut the mold off when it's time to butcher.One of the tastier results I had was from a big,old bear that I hung for a real long time until it had a fair bit of mold on the outside.It was as tasty as could be,but I lost some(not a lot) meat from turning green and I chucked a fair number of bones out.I probably could have kept more soup bones,but I didn't like the green streaks on the outside,and I take more precautions with bear meat than most other types.
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Old October 29th, 2008 #49
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Isn't moldy meat bad for you? Couldn't that potentially kill you? I know if any food I have from cheese to bread, if it has a tiny piece of mold I toss it. I know some people say: 'nah, it isn't bad' and they will actually eat it, like my father, but I am very paranoid about things like that. I would definitely never give it to my child.
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Old October 29th, 2008 #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer View Post
Isn't moldy meat bad for you? Couldn't that potentially kill you? I know if any food I have from cheese to bread, if it has a tiny piece of mold I toss it. I know some people say: 'nah, it isn't bad' and they will actually eat it, like my father, but I am very paranoid about things like that. I would definitely never give it to my child.
You don't eat the moldy part.

This is from a page on virginia hams:

Country and Virginia hams may be covered with mold, a normal characteristic. It is the some type of harmless mold found on aged cheeses. It is formed during the curing process by a reaction of the moisture from the ham with heat and humidity in the air. DO NOT DISCARD your ham. Simply wash it in hot water and scrub off the mold with a stiff vegetable brush.


http://www.vapeanuts.com/virginia-ham-faq.html
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Old October 29th, 2008 #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer View Post
Isn't moldy meat bad for you? Couldn't that potentially kill you? I know if any food I have from cheese to bread, if it has a tiny piece of mold I toss it. I know some people say: 'nah, it isn't bad' and they will actually eat it, like my father, but I am very paranoid about things like that. I would definitely never give it to my child.
When hanging meat properly it should form a pellicule (or a "skin")if done right.This layer of skin is quite tough and actually keeps the meat inside safe from mold and bacteria.When the meat is ready for butchering all the skin is cut off and thrown away.The skin becomes thick and tough over time and it takes a lot of mold to penetrate through the layer and into the meat.

When it comes to cheese I always cut the moldy part off and keep the rest (particularly if the cheese has a skin or rind),but moldy bread makes me somewhat nervous.

edit ; now that I think about isn't cheese (and yogurt)just a form of moldy milk?Isn't the yeast used to make bread just some kind of mold or bacteria?
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Last edited by Art Cast; October 29th, 2008 at 08:05 PM.
 
Old October 29th, 2008 #52
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Originally Posted by Andy Bauer View Post
Let me tell guys something,

I was a Vegan for about a year, that was the most depressing year of my life. I was religious about veganism, ate nothing but soy products and fruits and vegetables. I also ate rice and grains. It must have something to do with testosterone levels, because man, I was drive-less. I had no urge to do anything. Maybe veganism only works for some people? I started eating fish again, particularly salmon. It was like being touched by an angel; maybe it was just me? I don't know, but veganism certainly can't be good for genes or future children.

I have been vegan for over 20 years...no depression. Actually I have a sparkling personality! LOL. Healthy (aside from normal colds or the flu) Never had any negative side effects. Protein level is always average to high when checked. As for genes for future children, I have children, raised vegan at birth, then incorporated eggs and dairy in their diets, per their requests. (so I am not a nutty mom who forced veganism on them. They make their own decisions as to vegan/vegetarian/or even future meat eaters) They are smart and healthy. So as you stated I guess the vegan diet is only for some not all.
 
Old October 29th, 2008 #53
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Moldy ham,

I don't know how it works here, but I lived in Spain for two years and they had the most delicious hams I've ever tasted.

The hams are cured with salt and time. That's it! Ham, salt, and time. No other substance of any kind. I don't remember how long they are cured before you can buy them, but you buy them and and nail them up, and slice off what you want, when you need some ham.

They develop a blue/green bacteria that covers them in splotches. There were three styles of eating the ham, depending on taste. Some would cut around the blue/green splotches or cut out ham without it. Others would just brush the blue/green off and slice the ham. And, some (I am in this third group) would just slice the ham and eat it, bacteria and all. Yum.

The bacteria was a sub species of penicillin, as is the bacteria in Brie and Camembert cheeses, and probably any cheese that shows green and blue chunks scattered about. Delicious, just damn delicious.

I've never had a ham in the United States that can compare. Not even close. As for honey cured. God! Makes me sick to think of it. God! Why are Americans so damn addicted to sweet.

Mike
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Old October 29th, 2008 #54
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I highly recommend eggs as a primary protein source. Eggs have the highest biological value of any protein source. In fact all other proteins are compared to eggs as a standard. Free range chicken eggs cost about 50 cents to a dollar more per dozen than cage raised hormone injected shit fed chicken eggs do...Worth it to me.

Feedlot cattle (the ones who live their whole lives in a pen and eat other cattle by products pressed into feed) are indeed injected with steroids. They are given a combination of Testosterone Trenbolone aceatate to make their muscle nice and red (same steroid taken by power lifters for stronger, solid, lean muscle) mixed with a highly active form of estrogen to add marbling to the meat, they top that off with some hearty antibiotics to prevent infections from them standing in their own shit all day and night.

The typical feedlot heifer is given 200mgs of testosterone and about 20mgs of estrogen (estrodoil) and 300 mgs of oxytetracycline dihydrate (antibiotics) in a 75 day period. Thats NOT much testosterone considering the average recreational body builder takes about 1000mgs per week.
 
Old October 29th, 2008 #55
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Originally Posted by Mark Faust View Post
I highly recommend eggs as a primary protein source. Eggs have the highest biological value of any protein source. In fact all other proteins are compared to eggs as a standard. Free range chicken eggs cost about 50 cents to a dollar more per dozen than cage raised hormone injected shit fed chicken eggs do...Worth it to me.
Thanks for this information on eggs Mark. We learned that the egg was the best source of protein in nursing school. They told us that an uncooked egg white is best since cooking denatures the protein but one runs the risk of food poisoning sans cooking.

I was wondering about the free range egg situation before you made this post and was wondering if there was really a good reason to spend the extra on free range eggs. I have a friend that buys "organic" and "free range" food stuffs and I think most of it is just a marketing come on. I would like to see some studies on this subject.

Since I don't buy a lot of the organic or free range stuff I'll spend the extra on the free range eggs.

By the way, my friend who I mentioned above gave me a nice set of "organic" cotton bath towels, hand towels, and wash clothes. She didn't want them because she said they didn't absorb very well. The towels are huge and I like them although I haven't used them yet. "Organic cotton" towels!

Last edited by OTPTT; October 29th, 2008 at 10:01 PM.
 
Old October 29th, 2008 #56
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTPTT View Post
Thanks for this information on eggs Mark. We learned that the egg was the best source of protein in nursing school. They told us that an uncooked egg white is best since cooking denatures the protein but one runs the risk of food poisoning sans cooking.
Mark's statements on eggs actually make a lot of sense to me. If you think about it, eating vegetables or fruits is really the same thing. You are eating the 'eggs' of plants since most of the veggies and the fruits are the procreation vehicle of the plant.

Quote:
I was wondering about the free range egg situation before you made this post and was wondering if there was really a good reason to spend the extra on free range eggs. I have a friend that buys "organic" and "free range" food stuffs and I think most of it is just a marketing come on. I would like to see some studies on this subject.
I got something in the mail about organic farmers in my area today. Some of it includes cattle, eggs and chicken. I think it is more than market hype. Consider the stats that Mark gave on the stuff they pump into these animals. It isn't natural. Chickens eat some nasty stuff sometimes but it is better than the stuff Mark mentioned.

BTW, a guy told me a story once about an Air Force guy in Thailand during Vietnam. The guy married one of the local muds and he kept running around on her with the whores. So, one night while he was passed out, she cut his dick off and threw it out the window. The chickens ate it.
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Old October 29th, 2008 #57
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Thanks for this information on eggs Mark. We learned that the egg was the best source of protein in nursing school. They told us that an uncooked egg white is best since cooking denatures the protein but one runs the risk of food poisoning sans cooking.

I was wondering about the free range egg situation before you made this post and was wondering if there was really a good reason to spend the extra on free range eggs. I have a friend that buys "organic" and "free range" food stuffs and I think most of it is just a marketing come on. I would like to see some studies on this subject.
I don't know about studies or nutrition factors but I can tell the difference between a crappy,supermarket egg and a delicious real one.Real free range eggs generally have noticeably harder shells,an orangier yolk and a gloriously delicious flavour.

As to marketing comeons,I'm pretty sure a lot of crap eggs are repackaged and passed off as the real deal.I've noticed occasionally that the more expensive "free range eggs" sometimes aren't any different than the regular storebought ones.
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Old October 29th, 2008 #58
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The typical feedlot heifer is given 200mgs of testosterone and about 20mgs of estrogen (estrodoil) and 300 mgs of oxytetracycline dihydrate (antibiotics) in a 75 day period. Thats NOT much testosterone considering the average recreational body builder takes about 1000mgs per week.
US beef is so chock full of shit that the Europeans banned it's import. Europe will take depleted uranium before it takes our burgers.
 
Old October 29th, 2008 #59
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You can only get Irish beef in Ireland and its all 'grass fed' 'free range' 'organic' beef.

Last edited by cillian; October 29th, 2008 at 10:47 PM.
 
Old October 30th, 2008 #60
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You can only get Irish beef in Ireland and its all 'grass fed' 'free range' 'organic' beef.
I can't afford meat and I still feel bloody terrible, perhaps I am doing something wrong. That Irish beef sounds very expensive to me, is it?
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