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Old January 11th, 2013 #61
keifer
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The link negates any other conceptual use for the wheel out side of harnessing it to a beast of burden, and since they had no such animals, they were just too smart to buy into the wheel concept. These little toys suggest to me that the people who had made them had seen a wheel and were trying to duplicate it. The figure head with large ears is a prevailing theme on those pieces, and seem to represent something different than themselves.
 
Old January 11th, 2013 #62
Nigel Thornberry
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Originally Posted by keifer View Post
The link negates any other conceptual use for the wheel out side of harnessing it to a beast of burden
Right, civilizations with such advanced cities as Tenoshtitlan, Lima, Machu Picchu etc. with access to wheels would have had at the very least hand carts for transporting goods down city streets. Unless Valdez is implying that these fabled civs that exceeded our own in terms of organization, infrastructure and opulence were completely supplied by 3'9" women with jars on their heads.
 
Old January 11th, 2013 #63
N.M. Valdez
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Originally Posted by keifer View Post
The link negates any other conceptual use for the wheel out side of harnessing it to a beast of burden, and since they had no such animals, they were just too smart to buy into the wheel concept.
That would be its main purpose.

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Originally Posted by keifer View Post
These little toys suggest to me that the people who had made them had seen a wheel and were trying to duplicate it. The figure head with large ears is a prevailing theme on those pieces, and seem to represent something different than themselves.
No, they invented the wheel. Europeans received the wheel from Near Easterners.
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Old January 11th, 2013 #64
Clancy
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Originally Posted by N.M. Valdez View Post
Why didn't Europeans think to invent the wheel, and why did you incorrectly assert that Indians did not invent the wheel, when they did and Europeans did not?
As you would say, Wikipedia is your friend:
Wheel Wheel

"Evidence of wheeled vehicles appears from the mid-4th millennium BC, near-simultaneously in Mesopotamia, the Northern Caucasus (Maykop culture) and Central Europe, so that the question of which culture originally invented the wheeled vehicle remains unresolved and under debate. The world's oldest wooden wheel, dating from 5,250 ± 100 BP, was discovered by Slovenian archeologists in 2002.[3]"

3: http://www.ukom.gov.si/en/media_rela..._in_slovenia/:

Working on a site in the Ljubljana marshes, Slovenian archaeologists last year uncovered a wooden wheel some 20 kilometres southeast of Ljubljana. Austrian experts have established that the wheel is between 5,100 and 5,350 years old, which makes it the oldest wooden wheel in the world ever found.


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How so? Mesoamericans used their superior mathematics and astronomy to develop their famous calendar and reckon the age of the universe long before Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake and Galileo placed under house arrest for accurately writing that the Earth revolves around the Sun.
The Mayans highly developed astronomy is not so astounding when put into context:
The key to understanding the Maya is their astronomy. The basic problem all primitive agricultural societies face is timekeeping. In the case of Britain, this led to the founding of Neolithic sites such as Stonehenge, where the stones were aligned to measure changes in the position of the rising sun and thus the seasons.

Such a convenient and easily accessible way of determining the agricultural calendar was not available to the Maya. The point where the sun rose was difficult to determine due to the surrounding jungle, while even if it could be observed—presumably from the top of a pyramid—the seasonal variations in position were much less marked than in the North. It thus became very important early on for the Maya to study the stars and planets to get a grip on time, an option much less open to the Neolithic Brits in their cloud-enshrouded abode.

The development of and dependence on an astronomically literate elite also created a tendency towards extreme hierarchy because an ability to read the stars and planets was not knowledge that was easily transferable in a society where the only form of writing was a dense, impenetrable system of hieroglyphics. With such vital but esoteric knowledge in their hands the elite could imperiously lord it over the vast underclass.

http://www.alternativeright.com/main...d-without-end/

Furthermore, your implication is that the Mayans knew of Heliocentrism before Galileo, which is, of course, false. The Maya did not even know that the Earth was spherical (which was known by Europeans since Ancient Greek times.)
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Yes, by which time they became an Indian weapon, and didn't play a major factor into European defeat of Indians, contrary to the mythical Hollywood image of the cowboy and his six shooters taking out the primitive Indian with his bow and arrow.
Yes, and they received all of their firearms from Europeans.
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If a "race war" as you envision it had actually occurred, Europeans would not have conquered the Americas in the absence of disease, since there were more Indians than there were Europeans at the time of contact, and it was select groups of Western European colonizers that were traveling to America.
So outnumbered forces never prevail through superior technology or strategy?
 
Old January 11th, 2013 #65
Kelley
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Orange wildfire sounds good.
My review of Orange Wildflower.

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OK, I now have a squeeze bottle of Orange Wildflower to try out.

Now, I am fond of Orange Blossom, so I'm curious if they are similar.

I am going to start my crappy little amateur review, with the packaging.

It's a squeeze bottle. If you know what a squeeze bottle is, then I don't need to explain. The labeling is where it differs. Whomever designed the labeling had an eye for what looks good. And I am not even talking about the swastika. The colors really fit the feel of honey from a California ranch. Everything from the old timeyish font, to the wooden looking swassie that has a bee sitting on top of it.

Took me a sec to notice where it said what flavor it was, but after finding it, I noticed that it was in a good spot going along side one of the arms/spokes.

The "what is a swastika?" on the back seals the classy deal.

Now for a cold taste, as I don't feel like getting up to go warm it up. I can guarantee that like most honey, when it gets warm... the flavor gets a bit bolder... even sweeter.

Opened it up, pulled out the tab thingie.

I am doing this review with an iPad, a cat on my right knee, and another on my shoulder... so bear with me.


Ok, ripped the tab off with my teeth. Got a nice taste. I wanted to smell it first, since as I quit smoking, my sense of smell got better. But the taste was excellent. It does actually carry a very Orange Blossom flavor. I'd say it is slightly more floral and aromatic than typical Orange Blossom honey.

Hold on, some got on my finger, and is now causing my iPad to go haywire.






Took me a few minutes. Now I just have some stuck in my beard.

I am getting a very floral aftertaste actually. Very very tasty. But then I do like that kind of taste. Actually it does seem to be less Orange Blossomy, and more floral. Which works for me.

I kicked the cat off my leg, and tossed the other one off my shoulder to go get a biscuit. Not a very special biscuit. Just workable.

In eating it the floral scent/taste is not overpowering. You actually don't even notice until it goes down and all that is left is remnants.

Anyway, I am going to finish eating my Yule gift.

One of these days I will have to stop by April's and browbeat her into letting me try and review them all. Will work for free honey.

I plan on having my mom order some, because she is almost as much as a honey fanatic as I am.

This is some good shit. I hope the rest of you enjoy it.

Plus the labels look frickin' awesome! Happy New Years, everyone!
 
Old January 11th, 2013 #66
N.M. Valdez
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Originally Posted by Nigel Thornberry View Post
Right, civilizations with such advanced cities as Tenoshtitlan, Lima, Machu Picchu etc. with access to wheels would have had at the very least hand carts for transporting goods down city streets. Unless Valdez is implying that these fabled civs that exceeded our own in terms of organization, infrastructure and opulence were completely supplied by 3'9" women with jars on their heads.
Lima and Macchu Picchu did not have access to wheels. Who was 3'9? I know that Europeans were of very short stature in medieval times due to malnutrition.
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Old January 11th, 2013 #67
Kelley
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Originally Posted by Angel Ramsey View Post
April, we'll be ordering some of your honey.
Go for it. It is excellent quality.

One of these days April needs to sit me down in a room, and not let me leave until I have had them all.... and written reviews of them.
 
Old January 11th, 2013 #68
Nigel Thornberry
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Originally Posted by N.M. Valdez View Post
Lima and Macchu Picchu did not have access to wheels.
Why not? Did the hyper-advanced mesoamerican cultures not interact with each other on a diplomatic level?

Inventions typically spread through Europe like wildfire, can this be attributed to our brutish and simpleton ways?
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Who was 3'9? I know that Europeans were of very short stature in medieval times due to malnutrition.
Where my people come from the average height even in the 13th century was about 5'8" and 5'9" for knights.
 
Old January 11th, 2013 #69
Nigel Thornberry
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Originally Posted by keifer View Post
These little toys suggest to me that the people who had made them had seen a wheel and were trying to duplicate it.
Likely. Roman amphorae sherds have been found off the coast of Brazil and it is not unlikely that Roman vessels would get caught in westerly currents in the Atlantic, bringing booty to the Americas that the Amerinds were incapable of duplicating to any useful effect, economic or otherwise.

Unless toys are some kind of indicator of civility.
 
Old January 11th, 2013 #70
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Furthermore, your implication is that the Mayans knew of Heliocentrism before Galileo, which is, of course, false. The Maya did not even know that the Earth was spherical (which was known by Europeans since Ancient Greek times.)
In fact, the Greek philosopher Eratosthenes (who lived in the third century BC) accurately estimated the Earth's circumference with 95-98% accuracy.
 
Old January 16th, 2013 #71
Kelley
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This needs to get back to the honey. Anyone else tried it yet?
 
Old January 16th, 2013 #72
Angel Ramsey
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Originally Posted by Kelley View Post
This needs to get back to the honey. Anyone else tried it yet?
Thank you for reminding me.
 
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