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Old September 24th, 2017 #21
Emily Henderson
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Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
I guess I've observed the Logospathos then. You're very intelligent (I didn't know of that distinction).
I didn't mean to combine the words---like here, I put a hyphen between them to make two different points, but I put only one hyphen and it looks like I meant to make a special word that doesn't exist, a-la George Dubya.

What I meant to say was Logos=logic, Ethos=ethics, Pathos=emotion.

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Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
To put it plainly, there's something panentheist about this reality, as opposed to strictly pantheist/atheistic (although that might just be semantics in terms of the difference between panentheist and pantheist). In other words, there's something reactive about the mind and nature that can't be explained by mere coincidence (IMO).
I reject panentheism, as there is no evidence for it. I'll touch on what you said in your next paragraph re your reason for embracing it, but why I reject:

It is, as Geisler said, a 'mutual admiration society' for the 'god/universe' setup. It goes back to 1300 BCE, the idea of 'Divine Power' having a hand in all that humans do, and that we have an ultimate 'destiny'.

Multiverse theory-which we have tangible evidence for, even if some reject it-blows that concept out of the water. There is more evidence against organization and destiny than for it. And it replaced the flawed steady-state theory of Hoyle and Gold (the belief that there is no beginning or end).

We know that time began at the moment of singularity, and it only happened once. This Universe is 13.8 billion years old. All of this is very tangible at this point in human history, which is amazing.

No wonder Pope Paul II told the Scientists to stop trying to establish the moment of creation....he did so right after Hawking released one of his papers on the topic.

Richard Feynman actually developed the theory that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking built upon it.

The right circumstances happened this time around for human life--is that not special and amazing enough? Why insert a god you can't ever put your finger on into the mix? There is actually a reason people do this, which I'll touch on.

Panentheism is one of the ways they do it. In Panentheism, god is always 'growing' but never achieves anything. So you have your 'Supreme Being' who exists in everything, and everything in it/him/her.

Yet who is it--an intangible thing you can't make heads or tails of.

It is Christianity-lite, as it provides that all-needed comfort of believing you have a special destiny, ordained by something intangible outside yourself and within yourself..rather than the idea that there is no such being.

To touch on the 'reactive mind'--that is pseudo-science. What we actually have is a subconscious mind, and it is always recording and affecting us. But there is no such thing as L. Ron Hubbard's 'reactive mind'. What he did was borrow things from reality and turn it into cult crud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
From my experiences, there's "something", perhaps that should be spelled with a capital 'S', that can do things, like make a thud sound in perfect tandem/synchronicity (as Dr Jung once described) with my thought(s) (so that I hopefully internalize a value or concept (I've eventually noticed)). Now, I don't have any evidence of this thing / phenomenon. A camcorder going wouldn't necessarily help because you couldn't read my mind when the subtle, seemingly insignificant and boring event happens (although, if there were a verbal exchange with someone (the way Jung and Freud once noticed, when there were a couple of knocks behind Jung's bookcase when they were discussing ideas about the paranormal and "catalytic exteriorization phenomena"), then that might be considered a type of evidence worthy of documentation). Tom Campbell's 'My Big TOE' is a type of update on this theory.
John: what you are describing ties into the fallacy of Panentheism, Christ Insanity, and the 'reactive mind' all rolled into one.

You could call it many things, but it's a by-product of evolution. Our brains haven't quite caught up. Dr. Shermer calls it 'Agenticity'--where we believe things that happen are that way due to some 'outside agent' that made it so. It is a protective mechanism left over from our more primitive days.

https://michaelshermer.com/2009/06/agenticity/

Excerpt:
"..Consider the face on Mars, the Virgin Mary on a grilled-cheese sandwich, satanic messages in rock music. Of course, some patterns are real. Finding predictive patterns in changing weather, fruiting trees, migrating prey animals and hungry predators was central to the survival of Paleolithic hominids.

The problem is that we did not evolve a baloney-detection device in our brains to discriminate between true and false patterns. So we make two types of errors: a type I error, or false positive, is believing a pattern is real when it is not; a type II error, or false negative, is not believing a pattern is real when it is. If you believe that the rustle in the grass is a dangerous predator when it is just the wind (a type I error), you are more likely to survive than if you believe that the rustle in the grass is just the wind when it is a dangerous predator (a type II error). Because the cost of making a type I error is less than the cost of making a type II error and because there is no time for careful deliberation between patternicities in the split-second world of predator-prey interactions, natural selection would have favored those animals most likely to assume that all patterns are real. .."

Our brains are hard wired to lean toward making 'type I' errors, leading people to make erroneous connections all the time.

And I do this, too. We all do. Not opening an umbrella in the house and giving power to fortune cookie advice are two good examples.

We are self-aware animals who are amazing yet flawed in our development, because this whole 'life' thing is imperfect.
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Old September 24th, 2017 #22
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The problem is that we did not evolve a baloney-detection device in our brains to discriminate between true and false patterns. So we make two types of errors: a type I error, or false positive, is believing a pattern is real when it is not; a type II error, or false negative, is not believing a pattern is real when it is. If you believe that the rustle in the grass is a dangerous predator when it is just the wind (a type I error), you are more likely to survive than if you believe that the rustle in the grass is just the wind when it is a dangerous predator (a type II error). Because the cost of making a type I error is less than the cost of making a type II error and because there is no time for careful deliberation between patternicities in the split-second world of predator-prey interactions, natural selection would have favored those animals most likely to assume that all patterns are real. .."

Our brains are hard wired to lean toward making 'type I' errors, leading people to make erroneous connections all the time.
This is not the complete picture, we are social creatures, so our brains are hard-wired to avoid being rejected by the majority at all cost.

Our brains will make 'Type II' errors all day long if it means confirming to the opinion of the majority.

The appeal of Christianity must then be considered to be a social and not an intellectual matter, like 90% of our struggle.
 
Old September 24th, 2017 #23
Emily Henderson
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This is not the complete picture, we are social creatures, so our brains are hard-wired to avoid being rejected by the majority at all cost.

Our brains will make 'Type II' errors all day long if it means confirming to the opinion of the majority.

The appeal of Christianity must then be considered to be a social and not an intellectual matter, like 90% of our struggle.
Yes and no on the part in bold.

Like many forum posts, I was addressing certain points made by John, not painting a picture that includes all elements of the topic.

Christ insanity is like race-purely a factual vs. fictional matter.

People also reject racism for 'social repercussion' related reasons. Yet it is also a matter of fact vs. fiction.

So let those who have eyes to see, a willingness to learn, and some courage 'get it', and let the weaker or more dishonest go to the circus with their homies and get their stoopid on.

Small groups of people who push forward can overcome large swaths of stupid, they have many times. Who cares what dishonest, hypnotized idiots think of the truth, if it's the truth? To conform to their standard is to de-volve.

Let them elevate themselves, or go the way of the dinosaur.
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Old September 24th, 2017 #24
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Emily I think "Logos" was the wrong word I was seeking. I was trying to find an European equivalent to the following:

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao

In all its uses, the Tao is considered to have ineffable qualities that prevent it from being defined or expressed in words. It can, however, be known or experienced, and its principles (which can be discerned by observing Nature) can be followed or practiced. Much of East Asian philosophical writing focuses on the value of adhering to the principles of the Tao and the various consequences of failing to do so.
I'm sure we did have a word but the Christinsanitians (and probably even polytheists prior) eventually stomped it out. To their credit, I imagine it would be difficult summoning armies of armchair philosophers following "the Tao" to a battlefield (at least for an imperial offensive war).

While I agree there is no objective evidence of there being 'Something' beyond material reality, a type of Gaia or Cosmic Consciousness, I'd be lying if I didn't admit I've had uncanny experiences (subjective evidence) that I've been able to clearly discern was more than odd coincidence. I think people like Carl Jung, Alan Watts, Eckhart Tolle, Ken Wilber, and Tom Campbell describe It better than I, but I don't recommend anyone get into their shit, as you're not really going to gain much, especially financially. It adds up to a bunch of modern spiritual woohoo in the end, and I hate the idea of me being (or advocating on behalf of) "one of those people" lol. I probably won't have time to keep babbling about this stuff. That's probably why they created the 'bible' back in the day (to create 'biblers' instead of 'babblers' lol).
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Old September 24th, 2017 #25
Emily Henderson
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Emily I think "Logos" was the wrong word I was seeking. I was trying to find an European equivalent to the following:

I'm sure we did have a word but the Christinsanitians (and probably even polytheists prior) eventually stomped it out. To their credit, I imagine it would be difficult summoning armies of armchair philosophers following "the Tao" to a battlefield (at least for an imperial offensive war).

While I agree there is no objective evidence of there being 'Something' beyond material reality, a type of Gaia or Cosmic Consciousness, I'd be lying if I didn't admit I've had uncanny experiences (subjective evidence) that I've been able to clearly discern was more than odd coincidence. I think people like Carl Jung, Alan Watts, Eckhart Tolle, Ken Wilber, and Tom Campbell describe It better than I, but I don't recommend anyone get into their shit, as you're not really going to gain much, especially financially. It adds up to a bunch of modern spiritual woohoo in the end, and I hate the idea of me being (or advocating on behalf of) "one of those people" lol. I probably won't have time to keep babbling about this stuff. That's probably why they created the 'bible' back in the day (to create 'biblers' instead of 'babblers' lol).
Richard Carrier used to be a Taoist, so it's interesting you bring that up--there are some good truths in Taoism, but it is flawed.

He (Carrier) jokingly brings up in many of his speaking engagements what a 'throwing them off' moment it was when Christians attempted to start a conversation about 'the lord', and would ask him what he believed in, and he'd say he was a Taoist. They'd be confused, so he would explain Taoism as being a belief where, so long as you were in good with the Tao, you were doing well. You can't control life, but must go with the ebbs and flows. Harmony of opposites. The Xtians would have trouble figuring out how to proceed, since he did not give them a god to attack as inferior to theirs, lol.

Carrier goes into more detail re its flaws in 'Sense and Goodness without God', would take a lot to relay here, but he was a pretty sincere Taoist for a long time. Likely because 'harmony of opposites' is actually a true, observable part of nature.

As you mention, the uncanny experiences--yes, I've had same, as have a good many people. It was one of those 'hooks' that made me, for a long time, keep employing my 'Type I error' thinking, and returning to the idea there must be something to this god thing. 'Agenticity' is hard to escape, especially when you are unaware that it is the cause of the strong pull people have to make those connections where perhaps there are none--or it's a very natural occurrence that we have just had happen to us, but we just don't understand-with our limitations-what occurred. So we make it 'god' or 'supernatural'.

Gravity would be such--it certainly exists, and it has an explanation--but if we didn't know what it was called, and hadn't been made aware, through the work of Newton and others, of what it is....we might make it out to be just about anything. An invisible 'hand' that takes the stuff we toss into the air and slams it back down to the ground again, lol.

Nothing wrong with babbling if you are thinking about it. To me it is downright sinful not to think about it..the Vedic texts are exactly that, really--religion based on people wondering if this concept of 'something outside of myself' is valid or not. A combo of that question and trying to understand nature, and how to operate optimally in the world. They got a lot wrong, but got a lot right, too. They have a very 'agnostic' tone throughout.
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Old September 24th, 2017 #26
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I wouldn't really define myself as a Taoist at all either, more of a nationalist, plain and simple.

Like a Jew, I support my own nation and people, first.

As for 'God' and 'uncanny experiences':


And then if you want to get carried away with things, you can listen to Tom Campbell trying to solve the hard consciousness problem (and he does get carried away eventually - although he blankets everything by saying his model is metaphor/allegory):

MSc Physics - Systems Engineer (former NASA scientist) Tom Campbell on the Hard Consciousness Problem

(In 15 words or less: he says it's all a supercomuter-hologram, and there's some God operating within it.)

Many physicists say the same (at least about the hologram part):

You want to be able to tell a kid something other than "it's all BS" or "go look at the Bible and join a church if you're interested" ... and those five "gurus" I mentioned basically (as well as a few scientists) satisfy all my questions. I just wish it could be condensed into a small book/new bible for our people lol.

Let me close by saying I'm not going to go into the difference between an uncanny experience that convinces one this is a panentheist reality (aka there is some kind of God/Larger Consciousness System) vs pantheist (aka atheistic), as that's up to the interpretation of the individual.
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Old September 25th, 2017 #27
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I wouldn't really define myself as a Taoist at all either, more of a nationalist, plain and simple.

Like a Jew, I support my own nation and people, first.

As for 'God' and 'uncanny experiences':

Alan Watts Why Is It So Hard

And then if you want to get carried away with things, you can listen to Tom Campbell trying to solve the hard consciousness problem (and he does get carried away eventually - although he blankets everything by saying his model is metaphor/allegory):

MSc Physics - Systems Engineer (former NASA scientist) Tom Campbell on the Hard Consciousness Problem

(In 15 words or less: he says it's all a supercomuter-hologram, and there's some God operating within it.)

Many physicists say the same (at least about the hologram part):

Leonard Susskind on The World As Hologram
You want to be able to tell a kid something other than "it's all BS" or "go look at the Bible and join a church if you're interested" ... and those five "gurus" I mentioned basically (as well as a few scientists) satisfy all my questions. I just wish it could be condensed into a small book/new bible for our people lol.

Let me close by saying I'm not going to go into the difference between an uncanny experience that convinces one this is a panentheist reality (aka there is some kind of God/Larger Consciousness System) vs pantheist (aka atheistic), as that's up to the interpretation of the individual.
Hologram guy is Jewish. Or one of 'em is, Susskind--a Jew from the Bronx. His parents were going to make him be a plumber, that was the fambly bidniss. He told 'em no thanks.

He's a good theoretical physicist re string theory, though he and Hawking have had many a wrestling match regarding black holes. Susskind ended up being correct. Hawking believed that the material that falls into black holes disappears forever. One of the main principles of quantum mechanics is that information can never be destroyed completely. Turns out the info that falls into black holes is preserved somehow.

I'm not qualified to comment on the hologram with gawd in it thing, must look into it. Hope it's bullshit cuz it sounds weird. I don't want to have to reject yet another gawd, it's tiresome. It's called 'Panathesim'--the rejection of many fake shitty gods.

Not that it would shock me to find we are living in a hologram that the Wonderful Wizard of Oz is operating from within, but that's almost as creepy as a man being sent here to be murdered for my goof ups, which really don't stack up to such a dramatic, torturous death...and Xtians believe, lets not forget, that if only one of us were living and had to be saved by the 'sacrifice' of Jesus (a concept not central to early Christ Insanity, interestingly, since it is central to it today), Jesus would've died that same horrid death.

On it's face, that is all one should have to say to prove it's ridiculous. Imagine that the cult got so big, and we are still having to refute this tooth fairly level stupidity. The errors in Genesis alone should have one closing up the book with a 'good grief' and finding another.
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Old September 25th, 2017 #28
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I

Multiverse theory-which we have tangible evidence for, even if some reject it-blows that concept out of the water. There is more evidence against organization and destiny than for it. And it replaced the flawed steady-state theory of Hoyle and Gold (the belief that there is no beginning or end).

We know that time began at the moment of singularity, and it only happened once. This Universe is 13.8 billion years old. All of this is very tangible at this point in human history, which is amazing.
No there isn't any evidence for either of that. It is true that time begun at the big bang according to some models but there isn't any proof of that axtually being the case, physics isn't there yet.

Another unproven model is http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/sci...le19436363.ece
 
Old September 25th, 2017 #29
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Emily Henderson again
You know your stuff well. I've always thought Susskind, the Heeb, just like Leonard Krauss and many other Jewish theoretical physicists like Einstein, Bohr, Feynman, etc., were probably able to concentrate on their studies better, because they had tribal centers for their people. Whereas we have nothing, other than a derivation of their insane folklore created by the ancient Romans. So, we have nowhere to go to affirm our people and receive spiritual solace, whereas they do. So our lives get destroyed, many of our people today have stopped reproducing or miscegenate due to white guilt, while they thrive. I am jealous of them.

Again, the sick, psychotic (towards our own), vile Anglican/Episcopalian (Englishman's), Presbyterian (Scotsman's), Lutheran (German man's), etc., churches are the greatest travesty to ever befall the Germanic people (although I'd love to go someday just as my ancestors once did, one of whom was an Anglican bishop lol ). They should be gutted immediately of Jewish Christ-insanity, and yet, not done away with, but instead filled with science, philosophy and Germanic history/culture, and modern tribalism so that our people have a chance (as any Germanic descendant should realize (so we can sustain our numbers and compete better)). I neglected to mention the other European nationalities i.e. the French (where the Huguenots were all massacred/expelled so they have no protestant church, similar to their Festival of the Supreme Being culte), but the same reformation should happen everywhere.

This guy I've mentioned, Ken Wilber, is halfway there, in terms of providing modern spirituality (he calls it "Integral Theory/Psychology/Spirituality" (combining the best elements of all wisdom)):


He's aware of the other guys I've mentioned like Eckhart Tolle and "integrates" their best points into his master, comprehensive package.

But he lacks British (or general European) pride and nationalism. It's only fair, we get what they (the Jews) have (if we had that, I wouldn't have had the near maniacal compulsion to put 5000 posts on Stormfront, 1000 or so on Free Dominion in Canada (before it was shut down due to anti-free speech lawsuits, etc.) ... that was all a reaction to the vacuum of being denied a peoplehood spiritual center). I've largely ruined my life (in terms of its greater potential) as a result of this hobby, always thinking "it's almost done, I'm done with that", but then, I get this compulsion to say something more. And so, I hope this bright and cheery post is again my last.

Amen

Thank you for the wonderful conversation Emily. You're so smart and beautiful - you represent the best of our race.

PS: also, well said Carl ... rep given.
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Old September 25th, 2017 #30
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Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
I've largely ruined my life (in terms of its greater potential) as a result of this hobby, always thinking "it's almost done, I'm done with that", but then, I get this compulsion to say something more. And so, I hope this bright and cheery post is again my last.

Amen

Thank you for the wonderful conversation Emily. You're so smart and beautiful - you represent the best of our race.

PS: also, well said Carl ... rep given.
Forums do have a potato chip quality to them, yes. There is a brain science to it, as the medium lends itself to repetitive behavior and gratification of the reward center of the brain.

I'll stop too, but not right now--now to get my potato chip behavior on--Christinsanity being the topic:

What do you get when you mix a Charismatic little nutball (this time it's a wumin), smuggling of people who you treat as slaves, prep for Armageddon, keeping people hungry and tired so they can't think long enough to realize they need to put on their running shoes, and antiquated ideas about medicine so retarded your children die of easily treatable illness? You get a little thingy called the 'Aggressive Christian Missions Training Corps'.

Oh, and they were raping the kids.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-child-n796131


Why this is important: it illustrates how handing over your brain to other people just because they share a belief in something is a real bad idea. Clue number one that you are in a bad place is not being allowed to think.

And it illustrates how certain tactics employed against those who do hand over their mind, willpower, and money, work so effectively that they begin to turn a blind eye to some very horrible stuff, as in this group. This little group is one of many, and variations of this behavior exist in all major denominations as well, in varying degrees.
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Old September 25th, 2017 #31
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Most Libertarians I have met are atheists.

 
Old September 25th, 2017 #32
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Most Libertarians I have met are atheists.

Penn Jillette on God, No!, Atheism, Libertarianism, & More
Good interview, though he is not someone I'm a huge fan of, in large part because he does that 'Hollywood' thing of trying to be vulgar to such a high degree that it is off-putting. 'God No!' had a lot of this, though the book was OK, but other books are almost unreadable, as they are so cutesy and he tries to 'out gross' himself.

That illustrates another good point: the only thing Atheists have in common is that we don't believe in a god.

So an Atheist can be super moral or super vulgar, super smart or ordinary---there is no 'representative' or 'leader' of people who don't believe in god.
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Old September 25th, 2017 #33
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Default The Answer to the Question Posed in this Vid is Hell to the Yes

Are Christians Delusional? I think Julian Jaynes answered that way back there--Jews are delusional, as is their early religious writing---which includes that of the Essenes, from whence we get this cult.


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Old September 25th, 2017 #34
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>If you want to know the road to being an atheist: read the bible

So true. If the absurdity of the stories isn't enough, the poor authorship should put an end to any notion that it was divinely inspired.
 
Old September 27th, 2017 #35
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Christ insanity is like race-purely a factual vs. fictional matter.

People also reject racism for 'social repercussion' related reasons. Yet it is also a matter of fact vs. fiction.
Most WNs aren't proper racialists, but more so nationalists with some vaguely defined racial believes.

On most forums the more intelligent and disagreeable people tend to get banned or berated, often for making rational statements, which then creates a community of sycophants.

Most Christians and Liberals will also play fact games with you. Our knowledge of facts is based on placing our trust in scientists and their truthful gathering and interpretation of statistics.

So facts are ultimately determined by trust and authority. As most people believe they are rational, even though we know they are not, one should never be too certain of his own sanity.
 
Old September 27th, 2017 #36
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Most WNs aren't proper racialists, but more so nationalists with some vaguely defined racial believes.

On most forums the more intelligent and disagreeable people tend to get banned or berated, often for making rational statements, which then creates a community of sycophants.

Most Christians and Liberals will also play fact games with you. Our knowledge of facts is based on placing our trust in scientists and their truthful gathering and interpretation of statistics.

So facts are ultimately determined by trust and authority. As most people believe they are rational, even though we know they are not, one should never be too certain of his own sanity.
There's truth in what you're saying, but my opinion re the parts I put in bold:

1. Facts are not determined by trust, nor authority. They are observable and are either reliable to a reasonable standard or they are not.

One need not be a genius to know certain things are not factual. One need not seek out an expert in theoretical physics to know that Luke was forgery, for example, and that people do not rise out of their graves on the regular.

That's precisely why one's thinking is either 'rational' or 'irrational'--aka 'taking it on faith'.

People have a right to take things on faith, but in doing so they are not basing their decisions on facts.

Also, re authority: if you were diagnosed with brain cancer, you would not allow a Pizza Delivery man to do neurosurgery on your noggin. You would want to know the success rate of the surgeon you choose, any malpractice in his past, does he have a steady hand?, etc. There is a fact-based reason you put your trust in the info of the expert in a field over another.

But all is still based in reality and observable fact.

2. Sanity is also measurable and observable. If one is not sure of their sanity, that would indicate something right there.

Charles Manson being a good example, and all the LSD pushers of the 60s: they promoted the concept that 'no sense makes sense' and 'only a madman knows for sure'.

I'd say Manson is wrong---there are things that make sense, and there is nonsense. And while there are certainly unknowns in this Universe, some things we can know for sure, contrary to Robert Wilson's saying.

In fact, look at that when you feel someone is being untruthful or operating a 'cult': they will spin the 'don't be arrogant, nobody knows for sure what the truth is' line. That is so you will not question.

Otherwise, they'd not mind allowing people to think, and to demand evidence before handing over their allegiance to things.

Re the very first thing said in the post: I see it as opposite. Most WNists are racial loyalists, but may have nothing else in common.

Nationalism that is not based on race is a different thing altogether---a thing that hasn't worked thus far for any who experiment with it.

Melting pots=White death and displacement.

In fact, Nationalist melting pots are a lot like Christ Insanity, in that they both teach the fairytale that you can 'teach' an ideology that will make people behave and think in a way that is cohesive and similar to one another. They don't teach the observable truth: that biology trumps all taught behavior. If one is wired violent and stupid (blacks) you will not 'love' them out of being generally violent people, nor will you 'educate' them into being highly intelligent and creative.
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Last edited by Emily Henderson; September 27th, 2017 at 10:01 PM. Reason: Wheels of brain started turnin' and made me have to add stuff
 
Old September 29th, 2017 #37
Rolf
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There's truth in what you're saying, but my opinion re the parts I put in bold:

1. Facts are not determined by trust, nor authority. They are observable and are either reliable to a reasonable standard or they are not.
Take the Black vs White IQ gab, I never did any of the research, so I have to trust in the research of others. So the racial IQ gab is ultimately a matter of faith. Of course I can logically deduce that the totality of evidence points towards a 15 point gab, but it's still ultimately a matter of faith.

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One need not be a genius to know certain things are not factual. One need not seek out an expert in theoretical physics to know that Luke was forgery, for example, and that people do not rise out of their graves on the regular.
But what if Christianity, despite being mostly a bunch of bullshit, increases the well-being and success of a nation? There's a good argument to be made that Christianity saved Europe from an Islamic take-over.

What if Christian Identity will save us while Atheist Identity will not? Nobody here is intelligent enough to know the answer to that because of the complexity of the matter. If Christianity can save us, it would in fact be insanity to reject it.

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That's precisely why one's thinking is either 'rational' or 'irrational'--aka 'taking it on faith'.
Our political reality is too complicated for most people to fully contemplate, which is part of the reason why the mass media is so successful. When Linder concludes that finding a compromise with the Jews has a 0% success rate he might be correct and rational, but I'd have to engage in several years of research to see if he's rational or not.

We rely on others to form most of our complex viewpoints, but I agree you can judge a person by seeing whether they are rational by seeing whether they have rational viewpoints on the simple things, and do not show absolute certainty when it comes to matters that cannot be fully known.

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Originally Posted by Emily Henderson View Post
Also, re authority: if you were diagnosed with brain cancer, you would not allow a Pizza Delivery man to do neurosurgery on your noggin.
We let the equivalent of Pizza Delivery men run our government however, they are very well spoken Pizza Delivery men of course, but I'd hate to see how they would perform in a real job.

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2. Sanity is also measurable and observable. If one is not sure of their sanity, that would indicate something right there.
Over estimating one's own capabilities, which would include sanity, is something Negroes excel at, if we can believe the available research. A cornerstone of intellectualism is being open to the possibility of being wrong, or too stupid to fully grasp a concept.

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I'd say Manson is wrong---there are things that make sense, and there is nonsense. And while there are certainly unknowns in this Universe, some things we can know for sure, contrary to Robert Wilson's saying.
I agree, Manson was clearly psychotic.

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Originally Posted by Emily Henderson View Post
In fact, look at that when you feel someone is being untruthful or operating a 'cult': they will spin the 'don't be arrogant, nobody knows for sure what the truth is' line. That is so you will not question.
A cult is always based on some form of totalitarianism, which is something I readily oppose. Christianity opposes it as well, which I believe to be one of its many strengths that is not fully grasped by most atheists.

We of course need a certain pragmatism, we should get as close to the truth as possible and base our actions on that.

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Re the very first thing said in the post: I see it as opposite. Most WNists are racial loyalists, but may have nothing else in common.
Their view on race is vague though, which makes their loyalty vague. One droppers are a prominent example, Out of Africa denialism, and so the list goes on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily Henderson View Post
In fact, Nationalist melting pots are a lot like Christ Insanity, in that they both teach the fairytale that you can 'teach' an ideology that will make people behave and think in a way that is cohesive and similar to one another. They don't teach the observable truth: that biology trumps all taught behavior. If one is wired violent and stupid (blacks) you will not 'love' them out of being generally violent people, nor will you 'educate' them into being highly intelligent and creative.
Agreed, but I think a lot of WNs believe the 'All Whites are equal' fairy tale.

Obviously some blacks are superior to some whites. WN Insanity however states that all Whites are superior to all Blacks. So WN has its communist leanings as well.
 
Old September 30th, 2017 #38
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There's a good argument to be made that Christianity saved Europe from an Islamic take-over.
How are you sure about that? It couldn't have just been Whites fighting against foreign invasion, who happened to win? I'm not convinced the response to Islamic invasion would have been any different had they not been Christians.

Christianity is something that had to be enforced through the ends of swords and axes. In that regard, it's no different than Islam.

I believe society is a largely a racial construct, so even if Whites were converted to Islam, I don't think we'd be any worse off. We'd just be exchanging one non-White prophet for another, while worshiping the same Semitic tribal deity under a different name. 'Largely' doesn't mean our society can't be retarded, or stifled somewhat. It just means our progress will be above average for humans regardless of our religious baggage weighing us down.

Here is what I think, and this is my opinion, we'd be 300-500 years more advanced technologically, if we had never embraced Semitic quackery in ancient times. It wasn't until the Renaissance period that we became more sophisticated than the Romans were in 400-500AD. And in some disciplines, such as medical science, it wasn't until the late 19th century that we had better surgeons. It's been regarded by many that you'd have been in better hands with a Roman doctor than with an American doctor during the Civil War. I don't think it's a coincidence that christianity led to the fall of the Roman Empire. My point is no creed, or religion has been as destructive to the White race as christianity has been.
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Last edited by Crowe; September 30th, 2017 at 12:40 PM.
 
Old September 30th, 2017 #39
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Christianity and Islam have same mongrel program. Christianity did not save Europe from Islam. If whites had islam faith it will not in first time mongrelized them than through years as Christianity. You have pure white muslims in Bosnia where genetic studies said that Orthodox,Chatolic and Muslim people are same,mostly part of Dinaric sub-race and such muslims had SS division in ww2. Christianity have majority mongrels. Christianity in first had circumcision and whites rejected it similar would be with Islam.
 
Old September 30th, 2017 #40
Emily Henderson
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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
Take the Black vs White IQ gab, I never did any of the research, so I have to trust in the research of others. So the racial IQ gab is ultimately a matter of faith. Of course I can logically deduce that the totality of evidence points towards a 15 point gab, but it's still ultimately a matter of faith.
I have personally observed blacks, including blacks given a paid-for private education, and they on average under-perform. That is statistically prove-able, and is something I have personally observed. Both forms of 'fact' have merit. It is not taken on faith alone.

We also have anthropologists who study people, such as the way Collin Turbull did with the Central African Pygmies, then he studied a group known as the 'Ik'. He reports his observations on behavior, intelligence, etc.

They praised him for the 'Forest People' but condemned him for his study of the extremely stupid and violent 'Ik'.
He used the same methods of gathering and observing data on both groups, but the 'diversity' pushers did not like his findings, and thought he was overly condemning those people.

In other words, the truth is the truth. This man told the truth on his observations--people can dislike it, think it is not 'fair', etc., but at the end of the day, it's either true or false.

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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
But what if Christianity, despite being mostly a bunch of bullshit, increases the well-being and success of a nation? There's a good argument to be made that Christianity saved Europe from an Islamic take-over.

What if Christian Identity will save us while Atheist Identity will not? Nobody here is intelligent enough to know the answer to that because of the complexity of the matter. If Christianity can save us, it would in fact be insanity to reject it.
You are free to embrace a lie, believing it to be a wonderful and sane thing to do.

I'm not going to do it, period. If people need to be lied to, they aren't perhaps worth saving, nor do they really seek the truth.

Not only is it a lie---and we can get into the Bible in detail if you'd like---it is not what gave White Westerners all that is good about White Westerners---their innate nature did.

That is observable. Plenty Whites have killed each other over Christ Insanity.
It being an avenue for pushing back Islam would not make it 'good'---that's like saying, 'I have Leukemia, and it is far more survivable than AIDS, therefore Leukemia is good for me.'

Atheism would keep Islam out every bit--and more so--than Xtianity.

If we'd followed the Greek line of thinking all they way back to the first 'Atheos' think of how far we'd have come, and how many White lives would've been spared.

But the bottom line to me is: nothing good comes from a lie, as 'afterschool special' as that sounds it usually is the truth.

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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
Our political reality is too complicated for most people to fully contemplate, which is part of the reason why the mass media is so successful. When Linder concludes that finding a compromise with the Jews has a 0% success rate he might be correct and rational, but I'd have to engage in several years of research to see if he's rational or not.

We rely on others to form most of our complex viewpoints, but I agree you can judge a person by seeing whether they are rational by seeing whether they have rational viewpoints on the simple things, and do not show absolute certainty when it comes to matters that cannot be fully known.


We let the equivalent of Pizza Delivery men run our government however, they are very well spoken Pizza Delivery men of course, but I'd hate to see how they would perform in a real job.
We do indeed. And to compare govt. leadership and delivery with pizza--we get the pizza cold every time, pay twice what it's worth, and it's not the one we ordered.

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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
Over estimating one's own capabilities, which would include sanity, is something Negroes excel at, if we can believe the available research. A cornerstone of intellectualism is being open to the possibility of being wrong, or too stupid to fully grasp a concept.

Sure, but not the possibility of being wrong to the point where you 'take on faith' that which others want you to believe, just to make your own life easier. That is simply cowardly.

As I've said in other posts: if people are truly trustworthy, good, or intelligent, they don't mind the questioning of things. Your lack of acceptance of a religion wouldn't matter to them if they really, truly believe in it themselves. They wouldn't mind the questions, the in-depth study, and the expectation that they prove up their claims.

They mind because they do not want to prove up their claims.

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A cult is always based on some form of totalitarianism, which is something I readily oppose. Christianity opposes it as well, which I believe to be one of its many strengths that is not fully grasped by most atheists.
You clearly don't understand something: It wouldn't matter to Atheists if Xtians were totalitarians or not.


Jesus is not god, and if you believe the result of applying Bayes Theroem to the life of Christ, then you are a 'mythicist' like myself--a believer that Jesus did not live as a historical figure. Like Ned Ludd.

If the religion is false, that is all that matters to one who is 'without gods' (Atheos).

The Jesus cult was a small group of Essene Jews, and they readily wrote of Jesus in the 'we never knew him' vernacular in all early church manuscripts.
That changed when the forged documents came into play, and verbiage was altered.

That has been proven by historians, and even Christian apologists readily acknowledge this.

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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
We of course need a certain pragmatism, we should get as close to the truth as possible and base our actions on that.
Yes--and only that. Those who don't want truth are free to live however they please--you do them no favors playing up to their lies, should you decide they are such.

People often like lies that make them comfortable. Fat people want to hear 'no, you're not fat'.
But are you helping them to tell them this? No. If they want to eat a whole box of doughnuts they are free to do so, but if they ask you to tell them it's okay, you are not obligated to lie to 'em just because they are uncomfortable.

Like it is with Church---it is separate from State for a good reason. People can privately go to any church they please and get their dishonesty on. But when they want you to tell them it's right, and further want to mix it into the lives of other free people, that's where there is a problem.

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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
Their view on race is vague though, which makes their loyalty vague. One droppers are a prominent example, Out of Africa denialism, and so the list goes on.
There is no such thing as 'out of Africa denialism', there is only Science.

Fact is: we have now found older than Lucy links to humans, and they were found in Europe.

Those that want to hang on to 'Lucy' for dear life and ignore new discoveries are the ones who show they are worried on the new findings. They want and need Africans to be the 'mothers' of human life, otherwise we'd further realize our separateness on the tree of life, and our specialness.

I personally think it's self-evident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
Obviously some blacks are superior to some whites. WN Insanity however states that all Whites are superior to all Blacks. So WN has its communist leanings as well.
That last bit was several schools of thought that don't quite fit together.

-Communism teaches that all people are to be treated the same, right down to no class distinction between people within the same race, let alone other races.

-The only blacks super high on the totem pole of IQ are almost exclusively highly mixed with Euro DNA, superior blacks are rare indeed.

-WN is not insane. You don't seem to realize that a truth that is generally true can have some 'outliers' that don't fit, but the basic truth is the basic truth.

In general, Whites do not tear up entire cities in the USA, but Blacks do. Blacks rape the elderly at alarming rates. Blacks have IQ on average lower than any other group, Sub Saharans are at around 80.

Those are just observable facts, and we also can see that geese take care of their fellow geese, and lemur monkeys do the same, and ducks at the park don't mate with peacocks. We are biologically linked to our own 'family', whether it's perfect or not is not the issue.

We should try to be as good as we can. Xtianity is not good because it is not true. It is not good for many more reasons than that, but that is the starter point for looking for what is good: look for what is true.
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Last edited by Emily Henderson; September 30th, 2017 at 08:18 PM.
 
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