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Old December 23rd, 2009 #1
Kievsky
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Default Kievsky's view on the violence/genocide question

Alex,

I figured it was time I "man up" and come here and give you my view of this debate, after the ugly Giles/Hunter Wallace/Alex Linder infighting.

First, I don't think advocating violence, much less genocide, will help bring normal people to our cause, and ordinary, run of the mill, hard working White people are what we need.

Second, and this is the big one. I think that The Solution that is at our fingertips is simply neutralizing the Jewish advantage. It's like a Darwinian game of tennis. You don't win a tennis match by killing your opponent, but by beating him at tennis.

I think we can do it, and I think those who want to "shoot the opponent" to win the game lack faith in our ability to do Darwinian adaptation.

We outnumber the Jews, but of course most Whites currently fail to recognize that we are a group with our own group interests, and that we have "a legitimate conflict of interest with Organized Jewry," to use Kevin Macdonald's precise language.

Why am I so strongly convinced that we can start winning this game, instead of shooting the opponent? Because I see how very slack ordinary Whites are nowadays, say, compared to Asians. If we as a group didn't slack off so badly, other groups wouldn't be able to "eat our lunch" so much. This slackness is simply a failure to adapt in a timely fashion to the new conditions. Whites are still living in the majority White, cornucopian 1960's in their heads. They haven't yet got a clue that it's not 1965 any more, it's 2009, and 2009 America is red in tooth and claw.

So I think it's up to the WN intellectual elite to help Whites as a group make this step of Darwinian adaptation.

Ultimately we would do things such as pass laws such as severe punishment for financial scamming, and cut out the myriad government "programs" that grease the greedy Jewish paw. There need not be anything referring to Jews in financial scamming laws, but the outcome of the law would be "anti-Jewish" because financial scams are the bread and butter of so many powerful Jews. There would be many, many other legal reforms that would be very "bad for the Jews," because the Jews have redesigned America in so many ways to be good for them. Ultimately, we need decentralization, because centralization of economy and government is the key to Jewish power.

I think the worst nightmare of Jews would be if their typical scams and their tricks simply don't work any more, and/or are outlawed and enforced harshly. They won't be able to cry "poisecution" and they won't be able to point to Jewish victims of violence and beat their chests and cry "holocaust."

Jews remade America to be more Jew-friendly. We outnumber them, we can remake it back. The quick solution of fantasy violence is a dead end. All things worth doing, take a long time of steady work to accomplish. There's a Chinese word for that "gong" which means "hard work over a long period of time." Helping Whites learn to think as a group is well within the realm of possibility, especially when they are impoverished and have a "teachable moment."

As Whites do their Darwinian adaptation, it is inevitable that they will study the history of Jews wrecking America, and it will make them as angry as you are. The vast documentation and historical archives that has been created by the WN movement, from Henry Ford to Rockwell to you, to Kevin Macdonald, and many others - this stuff isn't going away. Who knows what future generations will do with this information? The toothpaste will never go back in the tube.

But in 2009, I advocate steady, hard work by a plan with concrete, attainable goals -- White Nationalist Gong, the ultimate goal of which is decentralized economy and decentralized governance, which is good for Whites, rather than what we have now, centralized economy and centralized politics, which is good for Jews.
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Last edited by Kievsky; December 23rd, 2009 at 09:01 AM.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #2
PeterKramer
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No implicitly anti-jew laws will ever get through the United States congress.

We outnumber jews but we barely outnumber our enemies in the United States. Add together the paid race traitor servants of the jews, feminist and homosexual whites, blacks, hispanics and asians and you have the Obama electing majority.

Each day we lose legal political power and our enemies gain it.

When the other tennis player has bought off the judges and cheats why not shoot him? Assuming you're in it to win.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #3
Kievsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterKramer View Post
No implicitly anti-jew laws will ever get through the United States congress.

We outnumber jews but we barely outnumber our enemies in the United States. Add together the paid race traitor servants of the jews, feminist and homosexual whites, blacks, hispanics and asians and you have the Obama electing majority.

Each day we lose legal political power and our enemies gain it.

When the other tennis player has bought off the judges and cheats why not shoot him? Assuming you're in it to win.
We outnumber jews but we barely outnumber our enemies in the United States.

Not a problem. Political power isn't about voting. It's about changing the culture.

Add together the paid race traitor servants of the jews, feminist and homosexual whites, blacks, hispanics and asians and you have the Obama electing majority.

What happens when the US gov't isn't able to pay these race traitor servants of the jews? Even Obama admits the US is broke.

When the other tennis player has bought off the judges and cheats why not shoot him?

The money to "pay off the judges" is running out, and decentralization of political power will make for way too many "judges" to keep track of and pay off.

It's all about ordinary White people deciding they need to band together and understand that there is no individual survival, only collective survival. That is the Darwinian adaptation we need to do. There are no shortcuts (in my opinion).
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Old December 23rd, 2009 #4
Donald E. Pauly
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Smile The Latter Days

Kievsky and many others ignore at their peril that U.S. society is on the brink of collapse. Soon the U.S. Government will not be able to make payroll. Then the blood and guts will commence in the streets. Talking about making American less Jew friendly is a pipedream. Making America Judenfrei will be a natural outcome of the civil war.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #5
OTPTT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
Kievsky and many others ignore at their peril that U.S. society is on the brink of collapse. Soon the U.S. Government will not be able to make payroll. Then the blood and guts will commence in the streets. Talking about making American less Jew friendly is a pipedream. Making America Judenfrei will be a natural outcome of the civil war.
He understands this fact completely. Check out my latest post regarding the Georgia General Assembly. They know something is coming down the pike and very soon.

CHECK THIS OUT!
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #6
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Originally Posted by Kievsky View Post
What happens when the US gov't isn't able to pay these race traitor servants of the jews? Even Obama admits the US is broke.
The Georgia General Assembly just kicked the jews square in the nuts.

CHECK THIS OUT!
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #7
Kievsky
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Originally Posted by OTPTT View Post
The Georgia General Assembly just kicked the jews square in the nuts.

CHECK THIS OUT!
Thanks for your contribution to this thread, Tony. I don't know why Donald Pauly thinks I'm not aware of the likelihood of social disorder. I'm the one that told him about Peak Oil years ago!
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Old December 23rd, 2009 #8
Donald E. Pauly
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Angry Rain on the Parade

I'm sorry to be a party pooper but the bill is essentially dead, see http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/sum/hb430.htm . It looks like nothing has happened on it since last February. There also is no mention in the Jew media. They would be shitting bricks if it were real.

However, as the Latter Days commence and the civil war breaks out states will likely introduce such measures. As long as the Jews are in power they will not have a snowball's chance in Hell.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
I'm sorry to be a party pooper but the bill is essentially dead, see http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/sum/hb430.htm . It looks like nothing has happened on it since last February. There also is no mention in the Jew media. They would be shitting bricks if it were real.

However, as the Latter Days commence and the civil war breaks out states will likely introduce such measures. As long as the Jews are in power they will not have a snowball's chance in Hell.
Did you not see this?

Quote:
SECTION 4.
This Act shall become effective on January 1, 2010.
Maybe it isn't going to be enacted on January 1, 2010. I don't know.

Edit: I don't see where it was signed by the governor so it appears to be stalled at this time. However, someone sent a shot across the jewish financial scammer's bow.

Last edited by OTPTT; December 23rd, 2009 at 06:24 PM.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #10
Donald E. Pauly
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Default Bills Come and Go

All bills have an effective date when introduced. Ten are introduced for ever one which becomes law. You have put everyone on a wild goose chase.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #11
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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
It looks like nothing has happened on it since last February. There also is no mention in the Jew media. They would be shitting bricks if it were real.
It's a real and valid proposed piece of legislation Bunky. It clearly states that the FRN is a worthless piece of paper. Do you think the jew media wants that information spread far and wide?

Quote:
Federal Reserve Accounting Unit Dollars, having no redeeming value in gold or silver coin, shall not be made a tender in payment of debts by the state.
It does not appear to have been signed into law by the governor at this point in time but clearly sends a message to those to whom it was addressed.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #12
Sean Gruber
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Kievsky, with respect, how do you get from the true observation that 2009 is "red in tooth and claw" to the analogy that we're playing a tennis match with the jew?

Is it a friendly competition with a tough competitor, played according to the rules of the game? Or is it war?

There seems to be a contradiction here which cannot be entirely smoothed over with appeals to self-reliance.

Jews aren't simply buying off some judges and winning at a gentleman's game. They are genociding us. The penalty for genocide is death.

My view is that it isn't a game or a competition. It's life and death - war.

There is a scene in one of the early Bond films that points up the absurdity of confusing these two things. I forget which film it is. Bond is on some island controlled by the super villain. The goal of the super villain is to take over the world (of course). Suddenly, the super villain appears in front of Bond. He tells Bond there is only one way to solve their "differences" - and that is fairly, by a gentleman's duel. Seconds appear and present the two "competitors" with pistols. Bond takes his pistol - but instead of instantly raising it and blowing the super villain's brains out (thus saving the world), he goes ahead with the duel! He and the super villain each take ten paces. The scene is drawn out, and we the audience are supposed to feel agonizing suspense over who will win the duel when the two men reach the count of ten. After all, they're both gentlemen in a fair fight, right? Each should have a fair chance. Bond, to survive, will simply have to rely a little more on his speed and his aim.

I didn't see the outcome of this scene. Instead, I changed channels because the scene was so GD preposterous.

Are you proposing a fair duel between us and the jews? No, just an improved effort on our part at winning resources in a violence-free fair economic competition with them, it seems to me. Knowing everything we know about jews historically, culturally, and in every other way, that strikes me as even more preposterous than the Bond film.
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Last edited by Sean Gruber; December 23rd, 2009 at 06:56 PM.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #13
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The jew is the chief murderer of our people. I don't see how that enjoins us to be fair to him, economically, or in any other way. It seems Christian: the best response to murder is said to be "more love" and all that. The best response to jew arguments, like Emma Goldman's, is said to be "better arguments" - as if Goldman and her ilk simply have an honest difference of opinion with us and would be swayed by argument if only we could come up with one that meets their high standards. (As Linder said, our good arguments bounce off Goldman et al's heads. What penetrates is something a little more solid than an argument.) Now Kievsky seems to be saying the best response to the Fed and the Madoffs is to work harder and smarter - lick 'em in a clean competition.

I'm all for self-reliance and economic competition, among humans. The jew isn't human. He isn't us. In nature, do competing species and subspecies cooperate when they come into serious, direct conflict? No. One eats the other.

Of course, I'm not advocating specific violences, nor do I think the best solution is to pick up a club and go berserk. Anyway, it's an interesting theoretical discussion. What, precisely, would be the downside of the Linder solution?
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Last edited by Sean Gruber; December 23rd, 2009 at 07:14 PM.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #14
PeterKramer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kievsky View Post
We outnumber jews but we barely outnumber our enemies in the United States.

Not a problem. Political power isn't about voting. It's about changing the culture.
You think you're going to change the culture of 40 million blacks? You remind me of Karl Rove with his dream of winning the Mexican vote by promoting amnesty.

We're close to being outnumbered by our racial enemies, and many of the race traitors are driven by jew mind control that goes deep. Feminist women won't stop opposing a White nationalist state just because the government goes bankrupt. Homosexuals and jews, which at 2% each still account for many millions of people, will be equally stubborn. They know what our victory would mean for their tribes.

It's too late win a political battle in a democracy by changing White culture. By the time we convince enough Whites to vote for their interests our enemies will have an absolute majority even if every race traitor among us recanted.

Quote:
Add together the paid race traitor servants of the jews, feminist and homosexual whites, blacks, hispanics and asians and you have the Obama electing majority.

What happens when the US gov't isn't able to pay these race traitor servants of the jews? Even Obama admits the US is broke.

When the other tennis player has bought off the judges and cheats why not shoot him?

The money to "pay off the judges" is running out, and decentralization of political power will make for way too many "judges" to keep track of and pay off.
If the US government can't pay their mercenaries we can skip the whole economic competition business and get down to the real business of payback.
 
Old December 23rd, 2009 #15
Marty Macaluso
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I don't think Kievsky understands the dire situation whites live under in the US. Our situation is on par with the Tamils in Sri Lanka, the Karen in Burma, the Uighurs in China. There is no level playing field here, the deck is stacked against us. We are discriminated against in jobs, freedom of association, freedom of speech, etc. The Jews, blacks, and Mexicans are free to create groups that work in the interest of their own, whites aren't allowed that. I never heard of the FED's infiltrating La Raza or the JDL. I don't see how you can beat them working within the current system, because that system is 100% against you.
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Old December 23rd, 2009 #16
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You think you're going to change the culture of 40 million blacks? You remind me of Karl Rove with his dream of winning the Mexican vote by promoting amnesty.


I believe he meant WHITE culture.
 
Old December 24th, 2009 #17
Kievsky
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Originally Posted by Marty Macaluso View Post
I don't think Kievsky understands the dire situation whites live under in the US. Our situation is on par with the Tamils in Sri Lanka, the Karen in Burma, the Uighurs in China. There is no level playing field here, the deck is stacked against us. We are discriminated against in jobs, freedom of association, freedom of speech, etc. The Jews, blacks, and Mexicans are free to create groups that work in the interest of their own, whites aren't allowed that. I never heard of the FED's infiltrating La Raza or the JDL. I don't see how you can beat them working within the current system, because that system is 100% against you.
1. That system is dependent on money, and it's going broke.

2. Whites can still make the choice to think collectively, it's likely we will out of necessity, and when that happens, we will start to make progress, despite the many non-whites, despite the "deck stacked against us."

You can find signs of Whites revolting against the NWO, if you know where to look. Baker Creek Heirloom seeds is an anti-NWO heirloom seed supplier that advertises on James Edwards Political Cesspool radio show. Here is their 2010 letter:

Quote:
http://rareseeds.com/about-2/jeres-letter/

Along with many other seed companies, we struggled to keep up last season, running out of 150,000 catalogs by the middle of January! We had never seen anything like it: the new interest in gardening has just been incredible. Millions of people are gardening for the first time, and possibly more young families are gardening than at any time since the Great Depression.

This year, to help keep up with this exciting trend, we are printing over 250,000 new catalogs.
That's a 66% increase in one year.

Those 250,000 customers of Baker Creek are not ordinary gardeners. Baker Creek has a very specific agenda of fighting globalist food control schemes such as the biotech genetically modified food companies like Monsanto, and they are fighting against the US government using food as a weapon. They aren't explicitly White nationalist, but they are most definitely Ron Paul types:



Another quote from Jere's letter:

Quote:
Let’s rock the food supply in 2010! Let’s put the home gardener and local farmer back in control of our food supply, our lives and our freedom. It is time for gardeners to learn to save seed again: yes, save seed! Let’s put the biotech and chemical corporations back on the shelf, letting them know we don’t need their toxins, patents, lobbyists and lawyers.
A seed company telling it's customers to "save seed?" Are they crazy? If his customers do what he's advocating, he could lose business! Do you get it yet? Baker Creek has a political agenda that it puts ahead of making money, and yet their business is taking off. This may be because of his political agenda. He's got plenty of non-political competition too, Cooks Garden, Johnny Seeds, Territorial, Fedco. I get their catalogs too, and they are good seed companies that offer both hybrids and heirlooms, but they aren't reporting 66% increases over last year.

Radical politics sells, to a certain kind of homey, quiet people. They don't advertise themselves or broadcast themselves. It's happening, but it's not being televised, which leaves a lot of you with a pessimistic attitude. Well, guess what:



It's real easy for you to be skeptical and pessimistic and sit behind your keyboard. But I can tell you, those people are out there. 250,000 customers of Baker Creek didn't buy from them just because it's good seed. Let's just say the FBI would love to have the Baker Creek mailing list, though the Famous But Incompetent may be unaware of potent political revolt coming from such an innocuous corner of society.

Let me spell it out for you. Though you may not be aware of it because you have always take food for granted, the US government has a long history of using food as a weapon. Think it can't happen here? Think again.

Baker Creek and it's quarter million customers are out to take away the food-weapon from the US government and take away the food monopoly from industry. This is a hidden, unpublicized Civil conflict, and you keyboard warriors should join the fight.

Quote:
You are the biggest threat to big, corporate agriculture, and they are starting to get nervous. This is why the corporate agriculture magazines don’t go an issue without bashing the good food movement, and why the American Seed Trade Association (ASTA) does not miss a beat in promoting gene-altered seeds. Right now, ASTA has launched a new propaganda website that promotes stronger corporate control, patent laws and of course more gene-altering of our seed supply.
Remember when Michelle Obama planted an organic garden on the White House lawn? Industrial agriculture publicity organizations pitched a fit. Here's a Colbert piece about it (2 minutes in).

http://current.com/items/89988395_st...nic-garden.htm

Baker Creek even has festivals so the quiet radicals can meet each other.

Quote:
In 2010 we will again host twelve monthly festivals, including our big “Spring Planting Festival” May 2 and 3, 2010. Our events have become a place for people from Missouri and across America to learn, network and enjoy time with fellow gardeners, craftsmen, musicians, farmers and all who love the slow life. These events are just like an old-time county fair.
So I'm optimistic. It's easy to stay pessimistic just watching the media for signs of White revolt. You think the TV is going to tell you about it? You think the quiet radicals are going to expose themselves to the mass media?
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Old December 24th, 2009 #18
Mike Parker
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Originally Posted by Kievsky View Post
Even Obama admits the US is broke.
Obama's not a bond investor. The market pricing of Treasuries even 20 years out suggests lots of people much smarter than Obama, and as smart as Paul Craig Roberts, don't think itz coming. That doesn't make the market right, but as Alex says, opinions backed by money bets should be taken extra seriously. I'm concerned about basing WN political strategy on an economic prediction that may turn out to be true or false.
 
Old December 24th, 2009 #19
Derrick Beukeboom
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In the most desperate and dire situations, society is grouped via race and ethnicity. This is a historical and sociological face.
It is clearly evident in the most brutal example via the prison system. Point being is that WN on a mass scale will not occur unless there is a widespread economic meltdown where the masses are thus forced to group together for survival.

Kievsky is correct in many regards and frankly, any talk of violent struggle is counter-productive when you don't even have one credible organization that is specifically a 'White Civil Rights' org.
In other words, it is like some sort of fantasy role playing game to propose violence as a sort of strategy.

There are little if any real world credible White orgs (at least in the US) and unless you have them, then the strategy is doomed to failure.

Who said we will if we survive? That is basically correct.

Political revolt on a race conscious scale will probably never happen.

The key is what transpires economically and this is where Kievsky's fundamental strategy is correct.

Self-sufficiency is important.
 
Old December 24th, 2009 #20
Marty Macaluso
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Kievsky is calling for whites to concede the US and become a "market dominant minority," in the country they created. This strategy has no chance of working because the government is anti white. For this to work you would need the government in your back pocket. Market dominant minorities exist all over the world, and they usually have to live with a suitcase packed and be ready to flee from angry mobs in an hours notice. I doubt most whites want to live like the Jews have for the last 1000 or so years getting kicked out countless countries and hated by all.
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