Hitler: Christian Idiot

[littlefieldjohn]

Originally Posted by Cale Sparks

The Red army entered Auschwitz in January 1945, there were no American soldiers involved.
When I read posts by liars such as yourself, I can recall, long after, the smell of bullshit throughout "your" scribbling. But I suppose 100s of faggots like yourself are just part of some gaggle of ass-sucking jew-fellating trolls.

Indeed, this forum is stacked with plenty of information and warrants no repeating here for a troll who happened by, and it is all way too obvious anyhow.

[Crowe]

Dway? Are you a nigger? That sounds like a niggerish name to me.

[Gerry Fable]

Originally Posted by Dway

I'm curious to see where you are going with this. Can you please expand on your post. (I'm being sincere)

Okay, so long as you are being sincere and not trolling me. I will give you a few links and the rest is up to you.

Firstly, if you want to learn about the ideology of National Socialism, the best thing is to avoid any mainstream media outlet, and wait for it...., so-called neo-Nazi websites. Which are infested by Hollywood Nazis of the worst kind.

You will learn absolute zero about National Socialist thinking from any of the above. Pretty much the same for VNN with a few exceptions. The general consensus on VNN is that National Socialism was a political ideology, rather than a 'religion.' A few people have argued the case that National Socialism was/is fundamentally a spiritual movement. But they are sadly a minority on here.

I generally avoid debating this subject because I am sick of trying to reason with dogmatists. But YES, National Socialism is a 'living religion.' The Swastika is a Holy symbol, and not a symbol of hate. Hitler was not a Christian, neither was he an atheist. He was in fact a deist. This can be proven by carefully scrutinizing Hitler's speeches and writings, as well as official German National Socialist ideological propaganda. A good source of (English translation) official German National Socialist propaganda literature is available online at: Calvin

The Calvin archive contains the good, the bad, and the ugly, of official German National Socialist propaganda. The majority of articles are political. But some contain 'spiritual' and 'religious' comments from a National Socialist perspective. These comments are in fierce opposition to Christianity, and are spiritually pantheistic.



Note the initials of the Artist: AH

Note the two opposing Swastikas. National Socialism considers the universe to be a unity. What exists cannot exist without its opposite. The Swastika represents Order and creativity. As opposed to Chaos and destruction. This is a fundamental law of Nature without exception.


Chapter 7 of the 2nd volume of Mein Kampf: "As National Socialists we see our program in our flag. In the red, we see the social idea of the movement, in the white, the nationalistic idea, in the Swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of Aryan man, and at the same time, also the victory of the idea of creative work, which in itself is, and will always be, anti-Semitic."



It is widely believed that Martin Bormann was an atheist because of his loathing of Christianity. So going by that logic, any Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jew is surely an atheist? Such reasoning is insane and can be disproved with the following Nuremberg war indictment document of Martin Bormann.

As you can read for yourself, Martin Bormann states official National Socialist thinking on spiritual matters, and identifies pantheism as the spiritual foundation of NS thinking. A very powerful document that conclusively proves that he was not an atheist.

What, in my opinion, is therefore necessary is the preparation of a short directive about a national socialist life formulation. We need for the work of education in the party, especially also in the Hitler Youth a short resume in which the ethical principles are documented, to respect which each German boy and girl, who at one time will be representatives of the national socialistic Germany, must be educated. In such a directive for instance belongs the- law of bravery, the law against cowardness, the commandment of love for the soulful nature in which God makes himself apparent also in the animal and the plant, [Pantheism] a commandment to keep the blood pure; many principles also belong here which are for instance also contained in the decalogue of the Old Testament, as far as they can be regarded as moral principles of all people's life.

SS Totenkopf ring

Starting from the top: Death's head

The Death's head does not signify 'evil' or harm to others. Rather its meaning, to the wearer of the ring, is "Death Before Dishonour." Meaning if an SS soldier dishonoured his comrades he would deserve death for his betrayal.

The triangle shape with a Sigrune (victory):

The triangle (I believe)represents the endless cycle of birth, death and rebirth in Nature. The Sigrune is there to protect the wearer after death.

The circle represents the circle of divinity in Nature, of all living things, animals and plants. The Swastika represents Order, and the Hagel rune (destruction) must symbolize its opposite, Chaos. I am not sure what the other shapes mean.

The Oath to Adolf Hitler

Speech by Rudolf Hess on 25 February 1934

...You take an oath to a man whom you know follows the laws of providence, which he obeys independently of the influence of earthly powers, who leads the German people rightly, and who will guide Germany’s fate. Through your oath you bind yourselves to a man who — that is our faith — was sent to us by higher powers. Do not seek Adolf Hitler with your mind. You will find him through the strength of your hearts!

Adolf Hitler is Germany and Germany is Adolf Hitler. He who takes an oath to Hitler takes an oath to Germany!

Swear to great Germany, to whose sons and daughters throughout the world I send our best wishes.


[Throughout Germany people take the oath.]

This has been the greatest common taking of an oath in history!

We greet the Führer!

Hitler youth pamphlet; Faith and Action

Birth and Death



Birth and death are the same; they are the two sides of one door. To enter one room always means leaving another. It depends on which room or which life we are in as to whether we say “entrance” or “exit,” life or death. §For he who understands it, death holds no terrors. But he who did not go his proper way in life and sinned will see his guilt in death. But there is after death no place of torture, no hell. To see one’s guilt is the severest judgment and at the same time the greatest penalty. Judgment and punishment are within yourself. §Neglected work can only be made up by double effort. It will once more be your choice, either to work toward the world plan, or to be its enemy. That is the only death that there is, to become a force for destruction rather than for creation, and this death is not physical. It is your free choice to decide on which side you belong, on god’s or, to use an old term, “the devil’s.” §What we call birth and death is only the door between two worlds. There is no birth and no death, only change, and we can go confidently through the door, for all the worlds were created by one hand.

Reincarnation

In conclusion, I think that Hitler was not an atheist, but he was not a Christian either. While he was materialist and rationalist in a lot of things, he also talked a lot about "Providence", or "Nature", as a sort of mystical force of fate, and he saw himself as somehow destined for victory even when the war was going badly for him, simply because of the purity of his purpose, his strength of will, and his feeling of destiny. I have even read that he believed in reincarnation.[Table Talks] To me, some of his quotes and writings make it sound like he worshipped the German national identity; some make it seem like instead of God he worshipped or idealised or divinised Providence / Nature / Fate, with his glorious destiny assured no matter what; and in some ways it seems to me like he worshipped himself.

[Hans Norling]

Originally Posted by Dway

Then Christians are a "race" as well. The rule must apply in either all cases or none at all. The logical fallacy of these Jews you speak of stems mostly from 2nd Temple Judaism and the reform under King Josiah about 600 BCE.

No, that is not correct. There are several biological and persistent racial/ethnic denominators for Jewry. You can't possibly not accept that.

[Karl Radl]

Originally Posted by Hans Norling

No, that is not correct. There are several biological and persistent racial/ethnic denominators for Jewry. You can't possibly not accept that.

He's also ignoring the fact that Judaism is a caste religion (not a confessional one) where-as Christianity and Islam are both confessionally based. A Jew can become a Muslim or a Christian, but he does not stop being a jew in Judaism (if he/she was born such) merely an apostate, while a gentile can only become a convert to Judaism rather than a member of Israel.

I'd also note that assuming the interchangeability of religions and religious faith as Dway does is actually an extremely bigoted position as it reduces all forms to the human condition, but then doesn't explain why it doesn't reduce the human condition down to biology (ergo sub-species/genetic clusters i.e. race/sub-race).

[Dway]

Originally Posted by Craig Cobb

Was he a Christian?

Worse...He was a Mormon.

[Dway]

Originally Posted by Cale Sparks

The Red army entered Auschwitz in January 1945, there were no American soldiers involved.
When I read posts by liars such as yourself, I can recall, long after, the smell of bullshit throughout "your" scribbling. But I suppose 100s of faggots like yourself are just part of some gaggle of ass-sucking jew-fellating trolls.

Nevermind. I was disrespectful.

[littlefieldjohn]

Originally Posted by Dway

Listen you shit stain scumbag fascist. It's fascinating how tainted history becomes when hatred, bigotry endure as a systematic pandemic of narcissism.

You can go back to shoving one of end of the swastika up your ass.

Calm down, fruitcake. You're out of control.

[Dway]

Originally Posted by Crowe

Dway? Are you a nigger? That sounds like a niggerish name to me.

No. It's a nickname. My first name is David (my dumb dead mother loved filthy biblical names) and my middle name is Wayne (named after the stupid German doctor who saved her life when I was like 3 or 4 years old.

Crowe...like crow? Crows are black...I suppose you're a wannabe black person then?

[Dway]

Originally Posted by littlefieldjohn

Calm down, fruitcake. You're out of control.

Not at all. I wrote it with a nice little grin on my face.

[littlefieldjohn]

Originally Posted by Dway

Worse...He was a Mormon.

So your dad was a doorknocker, just like Mitt.

[Dway]

Originally Posted by Gerry Fable

Okay, so long as you are being sincere and not trolling me. I will give you a few links and the rest is up to you.

First, thank you for the courtesy. I appreciate your kind response.

Firstly, if you want to learn about the ideology of National Socialism, the best thing is to avoid any mainstream media outlet, and wait for it...., so-called neo-Nazi websites. Which are infested by Hollywood Nazis of the worst kind.

I had heard several years ago of a young man who was against neo-Naziism but claimed to be Aryan. I admit my ignorance because I have, until your response, considered the man's claim to be a false dichotomy. I can empathize with your disdain for the commercialized portion of your ideological movement.

If you will, please expand on the rejection of neo-Naziism.

You will learn absolute zero about National Socialist thinking from any of the above. Pretty much the same for VNN with a few exceptions. The general consensus on VNN is that National Socialism was a political ideology, rather than a 'religion.' A few people have argued the case that National Socialism was/is fundamentally a spiritual movement. But they are sadly a minority on here.

Does this mean that you, personally, believe that it was/is a religiously slighted movement? If so, what is the theological basis for which you stand by this claim (even if it isn't exclusively theistic in nature)

I generally avoid debating this subject because I am sick of trying to reason with dogmatists. But YES, National Socialism is a 'living religion.' The Swastika is a Holy symbol, and not a symbol of hate. Hitler was not a Christian, neither was he an atheist. He was in fact a deist. This can be proven by carefully scrutinizing Hitler's speeches and writings, as well as official German National Socialist ideological propaganda. A good source of (English translation) official German National Socialist propaganda literature is available online at: Calvin

Fascinating. I'm a religious studies and political science major for school (glutton for punishment, I suppose) and I would be curious to explore this further. Because I haven't decided yet, perhaps I will write my contending exit paper prior to my Master's program.

The Calvin archive contains the good, the bad, and the ugly, of official German National Socialist propaganda. The majority of articles are political. But some contain 'spiritual' and 'religious' comments from a National Socialist perspective. These comments are in fierce opposition to Christianity, and are spiritually pantheistic.

Granted the deistic and pantheistic roots and connections to Hitler's theological ideas and reflections, would it be logical to assume that perhaps Hitler, to some extent, was panentheistic as well?

Note the two opposing Swastikas. National Socialism considers the universe to be a unity. What exists cannot exist without its opposite. The Swastika represents Order and creativity. As opposed to Chaos and destruction. This is a fundamental law of Nature without exception.

I remember reading about this in my Religion: Ritual, Myth and Symbol course that I took a couple years ago.

Chapter 7 of the 2nd volume of Mein Kampf: "As National Socialists we see our program in our flag. In the red, we see the social idea of the movement, in the white, the nationalistic idea, in the Swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of Aryan man, and at the same time, also the victory of the idea of creative work, which in itself is, and will always be, anti-Semitic."

I had attempted to write a report on Mein Kampf for my World History class in high school. In some way, I believe I may have been more objective (not meaning against but open-minded enough) in learning about Nazism back then. However, my teacher was opposed to it. Apparently, it made the school's banned book list (no surprise there).

If you would, could you briefly explain the origins of Aryanism?

It is widely believed that Martin Bormann was an atheist because of his loathing of Christianity. So going by that logic, any Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jew is surely an atheist? Such reasoning is insane and can be disproved with the following Nuremberg war indictment document of Martin Bormann.

That is just silly. I dislike Christianity and other religions because of illogical and oppressive dogmatic assertions. My experience as a Mormon and then as an ex-Mormon has rewarded me with ecclesiastically and spiritual bullying. Gerald Schroeder's book The Science of God is one example of baseless and illogical ideas. However, I don't loathe religious practioners (though I see more as misguided rather than educated in theology).

As you can read for yourself, Martin Bormann states official National Socialist thinking on spiritual matters, and identifies pantheism as the spiritual foundation of NS thinking. A very powerful document that conclusively proves that he was not an atheist.

Is it possible that some of these beliefs were somewhat pagan in nature or am I reading too much into this?

SS Totenkopf ring

Starting from the top: Death's head

The Death's head does not signify 'evil' or harm to others. Rather its meaning, to the wearer of the ring, is "Death Before Dishonour." Meaning if an SS soldier dishonoured his comrades he would deserve death for his betrayal.

The triangle shape with a Sigrune (victory):

The triangle (I believe)represents the endless cycle of birth, death and rebirth in Nature. The Sigrune is there to protect the wearer after death.

The circle represents the circle of divinity in Nature, of all living things, animals and plants. The Swastika represents Order, and the Hagel rune (destruction) must symbolize its opposite, Chaos. I am not sure what the other shapes mean.

I have honestly never seen the ring before. Thank you for the lesson and insight.

Also, thank you for your response. It was enlightening. I did read through some of the information you provided. Admittedly, in my own ignorance, I was wrong. While I may not necessarily agree with the information provided, I can at least appreciate the research and time put into providing resources for education. I can at least conclude that NS is not to be automatically or automagically conflated and associated with hate. If anything, I can admit that NS seems to be, at least purely, a defense mechanism and ideology meant for different forms of preservation and not just exclusively based on race.

TO EVERYONE: (sigh...and trying to be humble) I apologize for coming onto your board with an obvious agenda and axe to grind. Now, I really feel like a dick. I'm not trying to kiss ass, motherfuckers. I'm trying to be courteous and remember that I'm a guest in your domain.

[Dway]

Originally Posted by littlefieldjohn

So your dad was a doorknocker, just like Mitt.

No. My dad never served a mission thankfully. But he did a great job with his sales pitch to get my other siblings to serve. He was disappointed when it didn't work on me. Little did we know, I would be excommunicated from the LDS church at 18 years old (culturally, that's really young).

[Crowe]

Originally Posted by Dway

No. It's a nickname. My first name is David (my dumb dead mother loved filthy biblical names) and my middle name is Wayne (named after the stupid German doctor who saved her life when I was like 3 or 4 years old.

Crowe...like crow? Crows are black...I suppose you're a wannabe black person then?

Crowe is my last name. And its of Anglo or Celtic origin. In my case it must be Celtic, because the name comes from my Irish Grandfather.

And you should have more respect for your mother, and be grateful that German doctor saved her. You sound like an ungrateful, disrespectful little prick to me. My mom is Catholic, and as much as I dislike Christianity, I still love my mom.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Crowe

Crowe is my last name. And its of Anglo or Celtic origin. In my case it must be Celtic, because the name comes from my Irish Grandfather.

And you should have more respect for your mother, and be grateful that German doctor saved her. You sound like an ungrateful, disrespectful little prick to me. My mom is Catholic, and as much as I dislike Christianity, I still love my mom.

MacConchruabha/MacConchradha is the Irish Gaelic form of the surname Crowe.

[Cale Sparks]

Originally Posted by Dway

Admittedly, in my own ignorance, I was wrong.

If you'll stop making up stories about how your ancestors liberated fictional "death camps" (filled to the brim with God's Chosen!) then you can begin the process of distinguishing truth from lies.

[Gerry Fable]

Originally Posted by Dway

I had heard several years ago of a young man who was against neo-Naziism but claimed to be Aryan. I admit my ignorance because I have, until your response, considered the man's claim to be a false dichotomy. I can empathize with your disdain for the commercialized portion of your ideological movement.

If you will, please expand on the rejection of neo-Naziism.

Firstly, thank you for taking my post seriously, and for your sincere reply. I am very much a self-educated person, and I am not an academic! I don't want to give the impression that I am some kind of authority on National Socialism. I am not! But I would like to think that I have a good understanding of the ideology. Its basic tenets at the very least. But I am certainly no expert.

I have learned about NS through my own research, intuition and reasoning ability, with a little help on the way from forums such as this. I am sure you know where I am coming from, because you also seem sincere, and truthful.


In my personal estimation, the majority of so-called Neo-Nazi groups are nothing more than a caricature and bastardization of the movement led by Adolf Hitler. These groups tend to focus on 'race hate' instead of 'love for their own folk.' Ideologically, they tend to be an Hot-potch of Christian fundamentalism, race-hate, with a penchant for Hollywood Nazi imagery. They tend to be all-consumed by hate, hate and more hate. They are, on the whole, really horrible people, and nothing like a true representation of Hitler's German National Socialist movement.

Many years ago I was a supporter of Gregor Strasser and very much anti-Adolf Hitler. Who, I saw, (wrongly) as a capitalist lackey and gatekeeper. I now know different. Although you may disagree....

I like to think that I am intuitive. I often pick up on just a few pieces of information, then extrapolate that information and see a different picture emerging as to what I had been previously told was the truth.

It is first and foermost my intuition, thirst for knowledge, and more importantly, the truth, that has led me to my present viewpoint: That National Socialism is, fundamentally, and unequivocally, a spiritual worldview.

Granted the deistic and pantheistic roots and connections to Hitler's theological ideas and reflections, would it be logical to assume that perhaps Hitler, to some extent, was panentheistic as well?

Yes, absolutely. Hitler can be described as a pantheist/deist/Gnostic thinker.

Hitler's Forgotten Library:
The Man, His Books, and His Search for God

I remember reading about this in my Religion: Ritual, Myth and Symbol course that I took a couple years ago.

Yes. The duality of opposites. A few examples of religious symbols expressing this universal truth:

My favourite.




Symbolic Meanings

There are many ideas about the symbolic meaning of the Star of David. Some Kabbalists thought that the six points represented God's absolute rule over the universe in all six directions: north, south, east, west, up and down. They also believed that the triangles represented humanity’s dual nature – good and evil – and that the star could be used as protection against evil spirits.

The Star of David is an old symbol. Originally depicted by Muslims and Christians. The two triangles represent the duality of opposites: Heaven and Earth.



National Socialism understands 'God' not to be an anthropomorphic, all-powerful, vengeful, deity. As claimed by monotheistic religions such as Christianity. Rather National Socialism understands that the universe is in fact 'two universes', (multiple universes could exist even!). One physical universe (causal) joined by a second universe (acausal). Both universes co-exist together in a symbiotic relationship. One matter: the other spirit. One visible: the other invisible.

'God' resides in the acausal universe, while man/animals/plants exist in the physical universe. All living creatures, no matter how small, or inconsequential, contain a spark of the divine. And that 'individual consciousness' is not in the physical universe but is in fact acausal.

That what we call 'Nature', 'evolution', and 'the survival of the fittest', is 'God' living, evolving and becoming 'conscious' in the acausal universe.

Birth and Death

Birth and death are the same; they are the two sides of one door. To enter one room always means leaving another. It depends on which room or which life we are in as to whether we say “entrance” or “exit,” life or death. For he who understands it, death holds no terrors. But he who did not go his proper way in life and sinned will see his guilt in death. But there is after death no place of torture, no hell. To see one’s guilt is the severest judgment and at the same time the greatest penalty. Judgment and punishment are within yourself. Neglected work can only be made up by double effort. It will once more be your choice, either to work toward the world plan, or to be its enemy. That is the only death that there is, to become a force for destruction rather than for creation, and this death is not physical. It is your free choice to decide on which side you belong, on god’s or, to use an old term, “the devil’s.” What we call birth and death is only the door between two worlds. There is no birth and no death, only change, and we can go confidently through the door, for all the worlds were created by one hand.

I have quoted again the Birth and Death bit from the Hitler youth pamphlet as an example of NS thinking about 'God' and the nature of the universe.

[Crowe]

So Dway, do you really buy this "Diversity is our strength" anti-racist bullshit? Just curious.

Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins

MacConchruabha/MacConchradha is the Irish Gaelic form of the surname Crowe.

A lot of Irish immigrants into the US actually changed their names to shorter English ones, so they could be pronounced easier.

[Dway]

Originally Posted by Crowe

Crowe is my last name. And its of Anglo or Celtic origin. In my case it must be Celtic, because the name comes from my Irish Grandfather.

And you should have more respect for your mother, and be grateful that German doctor saved her. You sound like an ungrateful, disrespectful little prick to me. My mom is Catholic, and as much as I dislike Christianity, I still love my mom.

I kindly ask that you not assume anything about my life. I admitted my presumptions concerning NS. I'm trying a civil approach rather than an agenda.

I don't respect my mother because she was a heroine addict while pregnant with my twin brother and I. Because of her addiction, my brother died during labor. She was higher than a kite. She and my father never married. The doctor who saved her life saved her from one overdose. I was five years old when my mother finally died from overdose. Admittedly, I have a great deal of hostility toward her because I do recall being left at home (if you want to call her dealer boyfriends apartment a home) by myself. She wasn't a mother by any means.

I am grateful to my father and step mother for providing a real a home with stability. It was rough at first because I didn't know my father, my siblings from his first marriage, or my siblings from his second marriage to my stepmother.

To clarify, I'm not looking for sympathy but I wanted to explain why i feel the way I do about my biological mother.

[Dway]

Originally Posted by Crowe

So Dway, do you really buy this "Diversity is our strength" anti-racist bullshit? Just curious.

A lot of Irish immigrants into the US actually changed their names to shorter English ones, so they could be pronounced easier.

If this is a sincere question, the best and most honest answer I can give is that I don't know.