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Old February 7th, 2013 #1
Mr A.Anderson
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Default What are you favorite calibers?

Here is something that can be discussed forever. What are your favorite calibers and why?

Notice I said calibers, as in plural (although I guess I should include gauges as well) because, IMO, there are so many good ones out there. My opinion has changed somewhat recently, with the ammunition shortages the country is experiencing right now. What we've talked about ammunition shortages in a SHTF scenario in the past, and it is happening before our eyes, right now!

With national discussion about gun bans, Civilian Disarmament, government ammunition procurement in the billions of rounds, and the public's reaction to all of this (record sales of firearms and ammunition) - what should a person, caught unawares or unprepared, on the outside looking in, be considering to purchase at this point?
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #2
Mr A.Anderson
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I have always been a .308 Winchester fan for rifles. It is one of the most prolific calibers, for both hunting and LE. However, it is extremely difficult to find ammunition for it right now. What ammo you can find, is extremely expensive (upwards of $40-50 for a box of 20).

What I have been seeing on the shelves, of every store that I go to, is an abundance of .30-30, .270, and .30-06 at just slightly above normal prices.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #3
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When/if the SHTF it almost certainly won't be "as advertised" with hoards of Niggers and Spic's attacking citizens in the neighborhoods.Combat will be close quarters,within feet-not yards.Shot gun and pistol range.Few people actually live in rural areas that would actually come under attack by nonwhites for food and survival-but yes those few could use a high powered rifle to keep the bastards at bay.I've know lots of people who have lots of guns,but they usually don't know how to use any of them-that's the real problem;and the lack of ammo,or the price is a problem in this concern.At a minimum every white man ought to have one hand gun and one long or shot gun,the more the better of course;but as always practice,practice,practice is what will separate the winners for the dead.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #4
Mr A.Anderson
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That is one of the things I find intriguing about this subject, it is completely subjective to a person's personal situation or circumstance. Urban vs rural, hunting vs self defense, availability vs price are all factors to take into consideration.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #5
Mr A.Anderson
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For medium to long range shooting, below are the 4 calibers I would consider. I included the .30-30 because of its popularity and availability during this ammunition shortage, but you can see that it is pretty much a 200 yd gun. From all the internet and local ammunition searches I have done, the one caliber (arguably the most popular and widest usage) that is almost impossible to find is the .308 Win.

From discussions in the past, one of the most prevalent arguments for the .308 was ammunition availability in a SHTF scenario (we aren't quite there yet). The line of thought being because it is so popular, there shouldn't be too much of a problem finding those rounds. The reality is quite the opposite. Of course, we aren't scavenging from dead bodies at this point, but now realize that I don't really want to rely on that.

I don't know how necessary terminal ballistic results are for considering these rifle calibers, as penetration, expansion, and wound cavity using expanding ammunition will more than surpass FBI standards. These are tried and true medium to large game rounds with results that are beyond reproach for effectiveness.

.270 Win 150 gr. InterLock SP
.30-30 Win 150 gr. InterLock RN
.308 Win 150 gr. InterLock BTSP
.30-06 Sprg 150 gr. InterLock SP

Velocity
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2840 2642 2453 2271 2097 1931
2390 1959 1582 1277 — —
2820 2561 2316 2085 1868 1667
2910 2637 2381 2139 1911 1700

Energy
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2686 2325 2004 1718 1465 1242
1902 1278 834 543 — —
2649 2184 1787 1448 1162 925
2820 2317 1888 1523 1216 963

Trajectory
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 1.7 0 -7.5 -21.8 -44.1
-1.5 0 -7.7 -29.5 — —
-1.5 1.9 0 -8.4 -24.9 -51.3
-1.5 1.8 0 -7.9 -23.5 -48.6

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...Ballistics.pdf

Last edited by Mr A.Anderson; February 7th, 2013 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Added link for ballistics chart used
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #6
Simmon
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I notice on the specs you have above every rifle is dropping 1.5 at muzzle. I am assuming you used a ballistics calculator. Where did you set the zero? At 0 yards,50 yards, 70 yards 100 yards? The reason I ask is that if you have your rifle set for zero at 50 yards then it would make a difference at a hundred yards vs. zero being set at say 100 yards.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #7
Mr A.Anderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmon View Post
I notice on the specs you have above every rifle is dropping 1.5 at muzzle. I am assuming you used a ballistics calculator. Where did you set the zero? At 0 yards,50 yards, 70 yards 100 yards? The reason I ask is that if you have your rifle set for zero at 50 yards then it would make a difference at a hundred yards vs. zero being set at say 100 yards.
Those are numbers from Hornady's website for their ammo. The .30-30 was zero at 100 yards, the rest were zero at 200 yards.

Just edited post to include the link to the chart.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #8
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I would say anyone starting out now,egh , might be a little late. Its funny how (corny, I know) in the boy scouts they teach the young that they should always be prepared, but as an adult if your trying to 'be prepared' your considered a crazy preper that is a nut job waiting for the end of the world or something.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A.Anderson View Post
Those are numbers from Hornady's website for their ammo. The .30-30 was zero at 100 yards, the rest were zero at 200 yards.

Just edited post to include the link to the chart.
Oh I see, it wouldn't let you make the spacings right.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #10
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Old February 7th, 2013 #11
Nigel Thornberry
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6.5x39 Grendel
7.62x39 M43
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #12
Simmon
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Effectiveness for shotguns.



 
Old February 7th, 2013 #13
Mr A.Anderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Thornberry View Post
6.5x39 Grendel
7.62x39 M43
Did a quick search on 6.5 Grendel availability - I checked about 8 dealers, they are all sold out. I have no idea locally.

7.62x39 has mixed availability, on the net and local, but I don't know about the M43 FMJBT specifically. The best thing about the 7.62x39 - it is the most common caliber on the face of the planet.

6.5 Grendel 123 gr. A-MAX

Velocity
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2590 2420 2256 2099 1948 1804

Energy
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
1832 1599 1390 1203 1037 889

Trajectory
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-2.4 1.8 0 -8.6 -25.1 -50.9

7.62 x 39MM 123 gr. SST (20" Bbl)

Velocity
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2360 2049 1764 1511 1296 1133

Energy
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
1521 1147 850 623 459 350

Trajectory
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 3.4 0 -14.7 -44.7 -95.6
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #14
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Old February 7th, 2013 #15
Nigel Thornberry
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Pertinent to comparisons listed above.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #16
Mr A.Anderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Thornberry View Post


Pertinent to comparisons listed above.
The 6.5 Grendel is a good round, no doubt. It is comparable to the .270, .308, and the .30-06 by the numbers. Admittedly, I'm not very familiar with the round (never fired one) beyond reading a few articles. Seems to be about as scarce as the .308 right now as far as availability.

How many platforms are chambered in it? Is there a wide selection? Most lines of hunting rifles can be found in the .270, .308, and the .30-06, and the .308 is common among the tactical stuff as well.

That was always something I took into consideration when looking at a caliber. I've always wanted one that has good ballistics for medium to long range shooting, was a common round (availability) and had several platforms to shoot from (so I could own multiple types of firearms in the same caliber).
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #17
Mr A.Anderson
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.270 Win 150 gr. InterLock SP
.30-30 Win 150 gr. InterLock RN
.308 Win 150 gr. InterLock BTSP
.30-06 Sprg 150 gr. InterLock SP
6.5 Grendel 144 gr FMJBT Lapua



Energy
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2686 2325 2004 1718 1465 1242 46.3% energy retention
1902 1278 834 543 — —
2649 2184 1787 1448 1162 925 34.9% energy retention
2820 2317 1888 1523 1216 963 34.1% energy retention
2079 1867 1672 1493 1330 1181 56.8% energy retention

It is definitely a very efficient caliber. Will try to find ballistics for a heavier grain bullet to make a more accurate comparison.

Edit, just changed the data to reflect the 144 gr FMJBT in the 6.5 Grendel. Very Impressive retention.

Last edited by Mr A.Anderson; February 7th, 2013 at 07:34 PM.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #18
Nigel Thornberry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A.Anderson View Post
The 6.5 Grendel is a good round, no doubt. It is comparable to the .270, .308, and the .30-06 by the numbers. Admittedly, I'm not very familiar with the round (never fired one) beyond reading a few articles. Seems to be about as scarce as the .308 right now as far as availability.

How many platforms are chambered in it? Is there a wide selection? Most lines of hunting rifles can be found in the .270, .308, and the .30-06, and the .308 is common among the tactical stuff as well.

That was always something I took into consideration when looking at a caliber. I've always wanted one that has good ballistics for medium to long range shooting, was a common round (availability) and had several platforms to shoot from (so I could own multiple types of firearms in the same caliber).
That is the only issue with the round at the moment - lack of availability. It is a shorter 6.5x47 Lapua and is about as common. A few testbed rifles based off of the AR18 rifle have been used in combat capacities, notably 'counter-sniper' or 'marksman' roles. You'd know more about that than me. Notably - a company called 'Krebs' somewhere in the US has developed an AK based Grendel rifle with a floating barrel and gas chamber assembly, and it is likely one of the most accurate AK based weapons besides the Serbian M76 and similar AK based battle rifle cartridge weapons. Also, word has it that Izhmash's own AK-12 (AK 2012 model) will be built in the standard M43 round, the NATO 5.56x45 and the 6.5 Grendel. If this weapon sees much success in the Russian military and foreign markets demand for the Grendel will increase and ammunition supply accordingly.
 
Old February 7th, 2013 #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A.Anderson View Post
....
.30-30 Win 150 gr. InterLock RN

Velocity
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2390 1959 1582 1277 — —

Energy
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
1902 1278 834 543 — —

Trajectory
MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 0 -7.7 -29.5 — —
On a scoped marlin, assuming I owned one, zeroed at 200 with hornady's generic 30-30 load...

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-Win-150-gr-RN/

...I'd only see an 18" drop at 300.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ba...php?t=42ed7d90

That's not a deal-breaker. I'd use mil-dot anyway.
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Old February 7th, 2013 #20
Mr A.Anderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Wagahuski View Post
On a scoped marlin, assuming I owned one, zeroed at 200 with hornady's generic 30-30 load...

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-Win-150-gr-RN/

...I'd only see an 18" drop at 300.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ba...php?t=42ed7d90

That's not a deal-breaker. I'd use mil-dot anyway.
That sounds about right. On that chart, it was zeroed at 100 meters - about a 20" drop according to the chart numbers (quick calc in my head) the way you would set it up. A 130/135 gr is going to have less drop than the 150 as well.

Last edited by Mr A.Anderson; February 7th, 2013 at 08:52 PM.
 
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