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Old May 29th, 2018 #21
Phaedrus
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Whether Tommy Robinson is controlled opposition, and idiot, or trying to jew the jews, this issue deserves to be monitored and analyzed from a WN perspective.

The fact that the jews are flooding cuck island with muslims, and at the same time, one of the jews controlled opposition anti-muslim crusaders is drawing world wide attention to cuck island Orwellian's (jeweliian) speech codes and though crimes created by jews.

It would seem this is a risky strategy for the jews.

Is the average awakened Normy more likely to notice the jews have flooded cuck island with muslims and created speech codes and taught crimes to stop the citizens from mentioning the issue, or is the "awakened" Normy going to supported the call for a greater israel?

And what if Tommy Robinson is murdered by muslims in jail?
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Last edited by Phaedrus; May 30th, 2018 at 01:08 AM.
 
Old May 30th, 2018 #22
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Default islam is a "fascist ideology"

I remember this episode from some years ago but now I think this could have been staged for TV.

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Old May 30th, 2018 #23
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"From the very beginning, Robinson has had a dubious relationship with organised Jewry in Britain and this has meant toeing the line of “diversity and inclusion” (see picture above). While his identification of Islam as a problem and direct confrontation of Muslims has been admirable and shows real bravery, divorcing the problem from the subject of race has not just been deliberate, but a conscious dishonest and political choice to align himself with Jewish interests.

The English Defence League, after all, was formed in the image of the Jewish Defence League, a terrorist group that aligned itself to militant Negro groups in America. From the very beginning, despite doing good work in exposing Muslim paedophile gangs, it also promoted multi-racialism and attacked genuine nationalists in Britain who had been exposing the same as “racists”. The EDL under Robinson had various groups within it, including a Jewish section and an LGBT one. In other words, the EDL promoted the same agenda as the government. This is not to say there were not any good people in the EDL. There certainly were, but they were coerced into toeing the PC line, with Robinson being convicted of headbutting someone he referred to as a “neo-Nazi” in 2011."

"I understand that the media have built him up as a legitimate rebel leader and working-class hero by constantly interviewing him and giving him air time. Jeremy Bedford-Turner was never given air time, who is currently serving twelve months for so-called hate speech. And where were the talking heads of the alternative media when he was sent down? Where was Lauren Southern, Stefan Molyneux, Paul Joseph Watson and co. then? Why haven’t they mentioned Alison Chabloz’s trial? Oh right, the power they criticized was Jewish. And there’s the double standard. Their trials have been lobbied for by the very group that Robinson worships.

Here’s what I expect next: I expect leading politicians in Israel to criticise the British government over its handling of Tommy Robinson in order to gain the support of ordinary Britons for Israel and organised Jewry at large. This will mean they will be free to continue the promotion of miscegenation and decadence in British culture. Tommy Robinson’s celebrity will grow — expect a book out soon! And he will lead — oh yes, he will lead — us all to the promised land of kosher fake nationalism, along with the likes of Anne Marie Waters and her “For Britain” party."

http://www.unz.com/article/hero-worship-tommytards/
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Old May 30th, 2018 #24
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Tommy Robinson supporters threaten judge behind ex-EDL leader’s jail term
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Old May 30th, 2018 #25
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Tommy Robinson hates our guts so why should we care about him? I have never seen him defend any real nationalist sent to zog dungeons so why do I see the pro-white movement defending someone that is pro-jewish which means he is anti-white. Whites need to have standards and shun the white traitors. Don't worry about him his zionist friends will give him all the support he needs.

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Last edited by RickHolland; June 3rd, 2018 at 02:57 PM.
 
Old May 30th, 2018 #26
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Robinson was legally in the wrong. There can be little doubt about that. I think there could be a legal wrinkle in that it is possible the two or three defendants he confronted may not avail themselves of the postponement order that Robinson flouted, but even if that turns out to be the case, Robinson was still strictly in contempt. He had no defence.

However, that is the legalistic way of looking at things. There's a bigger political picture to consider outside law and criminal procedure.

Isn't the real question whether Robinson's activities (and the activities of people like him) are helpful to whites in the wider sense? It's a complex question that can be answered either way, indeed in lots of ways. I accept completely that he is pro-Jewish and essentially a Zionist activist - and that's certainly relevant and should be taken into account - but it doesn't necessarily follow that his activities are unhelpful or can't be exploited. That's apart from the fact that Robinson may not even be personally cognisant of who or what is giving him backing behind the scenes. He doesn't exactly come across as sophisticated. Or it could be (or in addition to this could be) that he may have little choice but to play a strategic long-game.

Maybe when regarding people like Robinson, instead of simply dismissing them on the basis of their apparent allegiances or superficial character flaws, what we should do is have an eye on the opportunities they give us. For all I know, Robinson could be a fully paid-up Israeli citizen, but that doesn't mean he is always wrong or unhelpful. He may also be an oaf and a yob, but I think sometimes there's something to be said for that type of person: Robinson does stand up to authority and puts his neck on the line.

You can say that's a bad thing to do and puts off the public, and there's a lot in that viewpoint as well. No doubt there are white British people in offices, factories and warehouses, etc. up and down the country signalling to their bosses and colleagues a keen disapproval of the latest entertaining antics from "that idiot, Tommy Robinson". Probably my view would be that he does help, but only in so far as he should be left to do what he does, maybe with some quiet encouragement from our side. Any direct association between Robinson and nationalists proper would be a bad thing, but he amplifies certain issues and thereby helps to shift the general political climate in our favour; and he's potentially a gateway to us, as much as he and his supporters may loathe the thought.

One other thing I'd like to raise, and on a slightly different but somewhat related topic:

I made two comments on a thread about this at the Counter-Currents website. I don't visit there any more, as I've outgrown it and don't see the usefulness in reading endless essays about Batman. However, I did make a point of visiting and commenting on one of the threads there in view of the very forceful criticism of Robinson from Dr Johnson and a British writer. I pointed out that just because Robinson was legally in the wrong - for which he has rightly been punished - it needn't follow that we should condemn him, we need to also consider the big picture. Dr Johnson did not appreciate my point-of-view and, in response, raged about "dullards". I'm not sure if he meant just me or nationalists in general too. I followed-up, and among other things, I informed Dr Johnson that I should be very happy to be considered a dullard - in my view, the best men can be simple - and also, I would take any day simple-minded men like Tommy Robinson with their simple notions over (to quote my exact wording or close to it): "pedantic, quibbling academics who myopically rage about narrow legalisms".

I have yet to see my counter-response published in the relevant comment stream, which I think is rather discourteous of Dr Johnson, given that he insulted me. He does rather come across as quite sensitive and I am suddenly interested to know whether the unkind rumours about his sexuality are true. Normally I pass over such things because it's not of general relevance, but at the same time, homosexuality is manifestly in contradiction with nationalism, and his unmannerly behaviour gives me pause for thought and leads me to ask: Is there any solid evidence to support the allegation that he is homosexual? And if there is, doesn't that de-legitimise him to a much greater extent than Tommy Robinson? At least Tommy Robinson is a man's man in the normal, healthy sense of the phrase, whatever else may be said about him.

Last edited by Tom Rogers; May 30th, 2018 at 08:29 PM.
 
Old May 31st, 2018 #27
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This video speaks for itself. UKIP's interim leader - in my view, rightly - makes a distinction between the technicality of breaking laws and the bigger socio-political issues. I don't agree with everything he says in the interview - for instance, he criticises some of those who stormed the Downing Street gates, whereas in my view, those protesters should have rioted properly, destroyed those gates and entered Downing Street itself and burned it to the ground. But he is a politician and has to speak within 'lawful' parameters.

The point is: he grasps the 'politics' of it, and that's good.

 
Old May 31st, 2018 #28
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The public petition in support of Tommy Robinson has now reached over 500,000 signatures.

https://www.change.org/p/13217155/u/...7259882&jb=333
 
Old May 31st, 2018 #29
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Old June 1st, 2018 #30
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Meghan Markle’s sister calls on Theresa May to free jailed ex-EDL leader Tommy Robinson
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Old June 2nd, 2018 #31
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Thanks for the links. I'm not myself going to look at them, as personally I'm not terribly interested in what Robinson or anybody else from the Alt Lite or anti-jihadist movement actually has to say. That's not my purpose here.

To my ear, Robinson talks bollocks and his videos are boring, but that's not the point - either for me or for him. He knows he talks bollocks, and he doesn't care. What matters is what ordinary people think about him.

He's also not going to be putting in an application to join MENSA any time soon, but he is, manifestly, a very capable man, as are the people around him.

That petition has more than 500,000 signatures. That does interest me. Robinson and his colleagues have found a way through to the public. However, there's a flaw in it. It's not truly political. It's just free-standing protest. There's no link to obtaining power and influence, other than the soft influence gained through internet-driven street activism.

For me, the lesson is that Nationalism has to be translated through people's actual issues and concerns, whether they're based on genuine problems or emotive perceptions. That's what I regard as real metapolitics, or the beginnings of it. It doesn't mean or imply moderacy or 'de-toxification' of Nationalism - we don't need to justify ourselves - it just means doing things at a community level that actually help and aren't gimmicks.

I comment here in a British context. As such, I also reject the Alt Right. Maybe the social media/propaganda approach to things is more for America, but I am sceptical about it in Britain, at least in the sense of it as a free-standing strategy. The Alt Right's basic flaw is the corollary of Robinson's flaw. It's politically-sterile.

In my opinion, the way forward in Britain is through local communities, with the aim of raising awareness, providing services and gaining a foothold in local government.

For instance, on the issue of child grooming and child sexual exploitation, if there's demand in a particular community for services, Nationalists could get together and fund and operate a recovery centre for young women.

Regarding housing, employment and welfare benefits, Nationalists could run local advice centres where there are gaps in demand. These could also develop to support sympathetic ethno-cultural activities.

None of this has to be under an explicitly Nationalist banner, but it would be Nationalists doing it and part of the aim would be to embed ourselves within local communities and make progress politically. It can be done.

Last edited by Tom Rogers; June 3rd, 2018 at 01:32 AM.
 
Old June 3rd, 2018 #32
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This is also what is needed in my opinion. #VoteThemOut


Meanwhile, Dr Greg Johnson, over at Counter-Currents, had this to say about Tommy Robinson in a recent article:

Quote:
It is sad when you invest everything is a charismatic, reckless blockhead. Better start building up alternative now rather than later. (Source: https://www.counter-currents.com/201...omment-1407883)
Evidently, Dr Johnson thinks an individual's contribution should be measured on presumed IQ rather than actual real-world effectiveness. Perhaps if Tommy Robinson read Plato's Republic, he would then be considered acceptable in the rarefied covens of the Alt Right?

In regard to the mass petition supporting Tommy Robinson, Dr Johnson goes on:

Quote:
It is a shame that over half a million people have been deceived this way. I would think they would be glad to learn that they have been deceived and that their anger and activism are being exploited and wasted. (Source: https://www.counter-currents.com/201...mment-1407887)
What this tells me is that Dr Johnson is an academic intellectual who does not understand politics.

I think the Alt Right have called this wrong. We should never be afraid of standing up for what the Simple Man thinks.

Last edited by Tom Rogers; June 3rd, 2018 at 01:31 AM.
 
Old June 3rd, 2018 #33
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Tommy Robinson Protests Continue For Second Week As Thousands Take To The Streets
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Old June 8th, 2018 #34
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c.f. Joe Owens on Tommy Robinson and Football Lads Alliance.


I think he's right that Tommy Robinson (whether Robinson himself realises this or not) is a tool for the state, but even if he is, that isn't necessarily a reason not to support him on occasion. If the enemy is running people like Robinson, the Alt Lite and the Alt Right, then they are playing a dangerous game. These tactics aren't zero sum in their benefits and penalties: in the process of doing all this damage to the image of nationalistic politics, they are also inadvertently bringing people over to our side, and I think they made a mistake by allowing his arrest in Leeds.

That said, I like Joe Owens' videos and mostly agree with him.

Last edited by Tom Rogers; June 8th, 2018 at 04:32 AM.
 
Old June 8th, 2018 #35
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This is another good video from Joe, clarifying his approach to politics:

 
Old June 10th, 2018 #36
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He's both right AND wrong.

He's right that it's all a load of bollocks, Robinson is not on our side, and Nationalists need to be focusing in the main on politics.

But Owens has a tendency to simplify things rhetorically for the sake of comprehension - a necessary thing, to get through to his intended audience, but with the result that he takes his own logic too far and doesn't stop to consider that there may be advantages in allowing the state and the enemy to pursue these tactics. There's a nuance to this, which is difficult to grasp and which I will (briefly) try to elucidate.

Tactically, what Robinson does is not mutually-exclusive with real political activity, and it's not a zero sum game. Even if Robinson is a fully paid-up state agent, or an agent of Zionists or whatever, there's a risk inherent to his masters in what he does. Nothing is without its downside.

In much the same way, The Daily Stormer could well be an enemy psy-op, but if so, then the enemy is taking a very significant risk that the effect will be the opposite of what was intended: in attempting to discredit Nationalism by association, it's not in doubt that a large number of young white men have been radicalised beyond reach by Anglin's website. In other words, if the enemy has created the Alt Right, The Daily Stormer, 'Tommy Robinson' and much else besides, they have created a monster. Much like Frankenstein could not control his diabolical creation, they surely cannot control the results, outcomes and consequences of what they have spawned, some of which will be positive for Nationalism, some of which admittedly won't be so positive.

Yes, there are spies, and I personally believe that it was the state and the enemy working covertly that destroyed the BNP in the period between late 2008 and mid-2010. And I think much the same people then pushed Nationalists in Britain into this Alt Right nonsense. As Owens rightly points out, it's important to be vigilant about this in future, which is one of the reasons I like his videos; but at the same time, I think espionage tactics are ultimately unproductive for the state and the enemy. Actually, spying and informing on Nationalism and other modes of covert disruption and psychological operations are pretty dumb tactics to rely on. It's the inverse of those on the militant Right who eschew politics - an equally short-sighted perspective. True, espionage and psy-ops killed off the BNP, but it did not and cannot kill off Nationalism: from a strategic perspective, all it can do is hold back the tide, acting as a dam. The question is: Are the Alt Right, Tommy Robinson, The Daily Stormer, Red Ice Radio, etc., etc., the metaphorical dam? Some are, I think, and some aren't. But it is only a dam. Even the best-built dam will eventually fail, ceteris paribus. We can't be stopped. We can only be held back.

For me, when confronting state/enemy psy-op shenanigans, it's a question of how it can be exploited. In Robinson's case, if he can be used by the enemy, then he can also be used by us - quite easily. It just requires a bit of thought. For one thing, Robinson is actually popular. That's a weapon, and it's not a weapon pointed at us. It's deliberately pointed at Moslems, because Robinson serves not anti-white interests per se, but anti-Moslem interests which happen to be incidentally anti-white. As much as I agree with Joe Owens in the generality, I think he underestimates the extent of racial feeling among whites. It's latent, but it's there. It's a case of how to use the public spotlight on Robinson to make a link between the two causes in a way that doesn't discredit Nationalism. Robinson's cause is essentially the interests of Jews; ours is the interests of whites. But in-between these two positions are the views and interests of moderate white British people who, yes, want competency in local government - Owens is right about that - but at the same time have privately-held views and feelings they dare not express most of the time, but occasionally do in hushed tones, and that revolve around wanting firm controls on immigration, no more non-white immigration, the protection and prioritisation of the white working class, and a general reversal of the social-liberal dispensation: in other words, the restoration of a society that is implicitly white. I have personally seen and heard this in people's houses, this being ordinary non-political people. It's there, but the dam is holding it back by diverting national feeling into softer issues and causes like electronic anti-jihadism and Islamophobia: click 'Like' on Facebook and re-tweet it to your Mum, etc.

As I think I stated in my earlier post, I don't pretend Tommy Robinson is the answer, but somebody like him is. We do need testosterone in Nationalism.

Last edited by Tom Rogers; June 10th, 2018 at 07:36 AM.
 
Old June 10th, 2018 #37
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For those who don't know - in that grand old English working class tradition, the Tommy Robinson demonstration in London yesterday is being reported as a riot, with police officers injured, property damage, etc.

Any Americans here who think we English are placid tea-drinkers is gravely mistaken. As somebody from the north of England, I can tell you that the English are violent and we still have manliness in us.

That said, I'm not sure about the truth of the media reports from yesterday, whether there is deliberate exaggeration. See the videos below and judge for yourself. Some of the clips do seem to suggest there was violence and disruption.

But this is why, as much as I admire Joe Owens' political ability and intelligence, I think he (and others like Greg Johnson) may be getting this slightly wrong (in Johnson's case, very wrong: I don't think he has Owens' intelligence); they may be underestimating 'the force of the water behind the dam', to reiterate my earlier metaphor.

Yes, it may all be a state set-up, but so what?

Even if it is a set-up intended to make Nationalism look bad, there is a risk that it is all going to get out of hand. Like Frankenstein, the state and the enemy may be losing control of the monster they created. Apropos on that point, I have also been thinking back to the video of Robinson's arrest in Leeds: he did look genuinely shocked. I wonder if Robinson has been sold-out by his masters?

I only say they 'may' be losing control. Joe Owens may turn out to be right about this. He's probably already right when he says it's a state/enemy psy-op. I know the people leading this are not on our side - that's obvious. But why would they want thousands marching, a show of strength?

Some will say it is because they want to divert people into useless activity, etc., but the types who go on these marches aren't going to be doing door-to-door leafleting anyway. It's not like they're going to be applying to become school governors in most cases. They are there in the main for the buzz.

There's the argument that it discredits the Right and Nationalism, etc., but does it? Would it stop people voting for credible Nationalist candidates? I really doubt that. So Joe Owens needs to get on with it.
I think it's questionable people would even link this to Nationalism in the political sense. Also, even if it is intended to discredit Nationalism, can we dismiss the spectacle of thousands of mostly white men marching and demonstrating in this way, whatever their motives may be?

Let me put it this way: if I was a senior politician in the government and I saw the videos below, I would be concerned!

And if somebody then told me: "Oh don't worry, Robinson's working for us (or Searchlight or Hope Not Hate, or Zionists, or whatever)".....I would be questioning the judgement of the people involved. Setting-up riots like that is very, very stupid and dangerous.

They've created a monster here. Yes, I can see why they created it. Maybe it all goes back to Mosley: maybe he was deliberately a bit of a clown and dressed in black, etc. in an effort to discredit Nationalism. Maybe this has always been the case. But Mosley had a mass movement, didn't he? So does Tommy Robinson, in effect. What if Mosley had lost control? Or something had happened to intervene and put a genuine fascist, like Leese, in charge? Things can happen.....It's a bit like The Daily Stormer. That might be a state-run psy-op too, but my question is: So what? Psy-op it may be, but in the process it has radicalised a lot of young white men, for better or worse.

Everything has its down side - and up side.




Last edited by Tom Rogers; June 10th, 2018 at 04:44 PM.
 
Old June 10th, 2018 #38
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And I've just found this:


I've never seen anything like this before: a former MEP, a 'respectable' individual, pillar of the community, calling for the burning of Parliament a la Guy Fawkes.
 
Old June 11th, 2018 #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Rogers View Post
And I've just found this:


I've never seen anything like this before: a former MEP, a 'respectable' individual, pillar of the community, calling for the burning of Parliament a la Guy Fawkes.
There is a lot of it about.Of late the BBC has been broadcasting a documentary presented by Lucy Worsley. In which Worsley conflates all women's suffrage campaigning to the terrorist WSPU.
In the week that a muslim housewife is banged up for plotting terrorism against MI6, Lucy proudly presented the infernal device made from "any woman's" kitchen cupboard and rounded off with the kicker that the WSPU had succeeded because of, not despite their militancy.
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Chase them into the swamps
 
Old June 11th, 2018 #40
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I do not think urging modern youth of the dot com generation to self educate themselves with book learning will get very far.
the 35 characters available at twitter seem to much effort for most of them to read and understand.
Owen's is finding out video by video that analogue campaigning does not work in the 21st century.
Those that regard Robinson as "one of their own" are unlikely to seek out a book by an obscure nationalist politician leave alone read and understand it.
They are even less likely to take advice from a "security Consultant" still active in the Merseyside night club scene not to join gangs.

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