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Old August 17th, 2009 #41
PeterKramer
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Originally Posted by Anne View Post
White flight worked to some degree, but even those who've been able to avoid the multiracial hell in their immediate environment, have still been affected by the philosophy of multiculturalism. This diversity dogma affects all echelons of Whites and is basically de-spiriting, or IOW, amounts to having one's soul and natural impulses violated and stunted.

People in their gated communities also just deal with existential angst by popping anti-depressants.
For the jews who forced whites to flee those are fringe benefits.

Existential angst makes whites perfect prey for the jew media. Just visit any Hot Topic, you'll see.
 
Old August 17th, 2009 #42
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Originally Posted by Gabry Ponte View Post
The serious WN's have always been betrayed by fellow WN. Look at Rounder aka "Judas" and countless others. Why risk your life and freedom when your own people sell you out in a heartbeat. Anyone with a brain and money would stay far away from American WN.
That gets back to Alex's original point. When you're fighting against an entrenched system loyalty is essential. The jews know this, and they do everything they can to demoralize and corrupt us. Using their total control of the mass media they've succeeded for the most part.

Add to that the relative comfort of most whites and a third factor, the control of information, and you have a formidable obstacle course. A white man must avoid being corrupted by the jewed culture, then he must discover the truth, then he must decide it's worth risking whatever status and material goods he has accumulated by opposing the system.

Perversely, the better his character and the greater his talents the more he will have to lose, since even the jew system needs good white men to keep things from breaking down completely. To the extent that he conforms and serves his corporate and government masters he will prosper. Not as much as the jew parasites, of course, but enough to keep him contented with his lot.

On the other hand, a person with very little to offer our cause has very little to lose and is that much more likely to sign up for any organization, and show his face in public.

The result of all this is a severe shortage of good men serving the white nationalist cause.
 
Old August 19th, 2009 #43
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That gets back to Alex's original point. When you're fighting against an entrenched system loyalty is essential. The jews know this, and they do everything they can to demoralize and corrupt us. Using their total control of the mass media they've succeeded for the most part.

Add to that the relative comfort of most whites and a third factor, the control of information, and you have a formidable obstacle course. A white man must avoid being corrupted by the jewed culture, then he must discover the truth, then he must decide it's worth risking whatever status and material goods he has accumulated by opposing the system.

Perversely, the better his character and the greater his talents the more he will have to lose, since even the jew system needs good white men to keep things from breaking down completely. To the extent that he conforms and serves his corporate and government masters he will prosper. Not as much as the jew parasites, of course, but enough to keep him contented with his lot.

On the other hand, a person with very little to offer our cause has very little to lose and is that much more likely to sign up for any organization, and show his face in public.

The result of all this is a severe shortage of good men serving the white nationalist cause.
Well put.

Loyalty is essential to any aboveground political organization advocating White interests. None of the technical stuff matters until that loyalty is in place.
 
Old August 19th, 2009 #44
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[More on the mafia. This is snippet from Salon interview with guy who wrote book about the first mafioso to get a real mafia going in the U.S.]

You suggest in the book that Morello wasn’t attracted so much to fame as to power. He seemed to have no problem remaining private if it meant the family became successful.

Yeah, that’s really important. The downfall of the Mafia over the last few decades coincides almost exactly with the beginning of these people seeing themselves as strange celebrities and relishing fame and notoriety and power. Morello was never into any of that. He wasn’t living a life in public. The history of organized crime teaches you that once you become a high-profile target, sooner or later you’re doomed. The government may tolerate organized crime to a certain extent in local areas. You see this in gambling rackets and during the prohibition period, alcohol, things that are tolerated by society though they’re technically illegal. Once you move beyond that and you have people who are openly forcing the government to recognize them as criminals, the government has to do something. And that’s really been the downfall of the modern Mafia in the United States and, to a lesser extent, Sicily.

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2009/...ke_dash_mafia/
 
Old August 19th, 2009 #45
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[More on the mafia. This is snippet from Salon interview with guy who wrote book about the first mafioso to get a real mafia going in the U.S.]

You suggest in the book that Morello wasn’t attracted so much to fame as to power. He seemed to have no problem remaining private if it meant the family became successful.

Yeah, that’s really important. The downfall of the Mafia over the last few decades coincides almost exactly with the beginning of these people seeing themselves as strange celebrities and relishing fame and notoriety and power. Morello was never into any of that. He wasn’t living a life in public. The history of organized crime teaches you that once you become a high-profile target, sooner or later you’re doomed. The government may tolerate organized crime to a certain extent in local areas. You see this in gambling rackets and during the prohibition period, alcohol, things that are tolerated by society though they’re technically illegal. Once you move beyond that and you have people who are openly forcing the government to recognize them as criminals, the government has to do something. And that’s really been the downfall of the modern Mafia in the United States and, to a lesser extent, Sicily.

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2009/...ke_dash_mafia/
This is why I advocate White nationalists adopt Taqqiyah, and treat WN'ism as religious faith, rather than merely political ideology. Taqqiyah, or concealing one's true beliefs, enhances fanaticism and enhances ingroup/outgroup feeling among the ingroup. The Shi'ites have been practicing Taqqiyah for a millenium already:

Quote:
the doctrine of Taqiyyah, or dissimulation, (i.e. calculated deception). In support of this doctrine of deception, the Shi'a attribute the following to Abu Abdullah (Ja'far as-Sadiq): "Nine tenths of religion is Taqiyyah (dissimulation), hence one who does not dissimulate has no religion." (Al-Kafi vol.9 p.110) "He who conceals his religion has saved it, and he who makes it public has destroyed it." "A believer who does not dissimulate is like a body without a head." (Tafseer al-Askari) "Mix with them (i.e. non-Shi'a) externally but oppose them internally." (Al-Kafi vol.9 p.116)
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Old August 19th, 2009 #46
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This is why I advocate White nationalists adopt Taqqiyah, and treat WN'ism as religious faith, rather than merely political ideology. Taqqiyah, or concealing one's true beliefs, enhances fanaticism and enhances ingroup/outgroup feeling among the ingroup. The Shi'ites have been practicing Taqqiyah for a millenium already:
That might work for some. For me, I made decision to go public at the start, because I believe that is exactly what is needed in order to get the thing going.
 
Old August 19th, 2009 #47
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That might work for some. For me, I made decision to go public at the start, because I believe that is exactly what is needed in order to get the thing going.
Yeah, the thing I realized over the years was that I needed to get involved in my local community without putting a big scarlet A on my chest. I know Rounder says we can't "sneak up on the jew." Well, I had to tailor my goals to the situation in which I found myself. The people around here have zero motivation for any sort of activity beyond the minimal necessary work to support themselves, and recreation.

The incredible laziness of the locals has a bright side; it creates a power vacuum and thus opens an opportunity to become a community leader. Every cloud has a silver lining.

So my suggestion would be:

1. Only recruit people with middle class values -- people with initiative. People who invest effort in something beyond immediate gratification. You may be an Army of one for a while, and you may grow very slowly, but you can only bother with quality. You are better to be an army of one than to hang around with losers.

2. Find out what community organizations and events are worth showing up for. Most aren't. It's fine to join things and quit if they are not going anywhere. You want to be a part of organizations with rich people and powerful people. That simple.

3. Your cadre should be ready to get involved with non-WN's who are useful to them. We call them "the English," as the Amish call outsiders. This is an excellent time to practice Taqqiyah, and Neurolinguistic Programming.

4. Read "The House of Rothschild: Money's Prophets 1798-1848" by Niall Ferguson. This is a blueprint of daring and sudden social ascent. It is highly useful and relevant to our cause. It will give you a new way to think. There is lots of hidden opportunity, but we are too moral and cautious and timid to seize those opportunities.
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Old August 20th, 2009 #48
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Originally Posted by Kievsky View Post
Yeah, the thing I realized over the years was that I needed to get involved in my local community without putting a big scarlet A on my chest. I know Rounder says we can't "sneak up on the jew." Well, I had to tailor my goals to the situation in which I found myself. The people around here have zero motivation for any sort of activity beyond the minimal necessary work to support themselves, and recreation.

The incredible laziness of the locals has a bright side; it creates a power vacuum and thus opens an opportunity to become a community leader. Every cloud has a silver lining.

So my suggestion would be:

1. Only recruit people with middle class values -- people with initiative. People who invest effort in something beyond immediate gratification. You may be an Army of one for a while, and you may grow very slowly, but you can only bother with quality. You are better to be an army of one than to hang around with losers.

2. Find out what community organizations and events are worth showing up for. Most aren't. It's fine to join things and quit if they are not going anywhere. You want to be a part of organizations with rich people and powerful people. That simple.

3. Your cadre should be ready to get involved with non-WN's who are useful to them. We call them "the English," as the Amish call outsiders. This is an excellent time to practice Taqqiyah, and Neurolinguistic Programming.

4. Read "The House of Rothschild: Money's Prophets 1798-1848" by Niall Ferguson. This is a blueprint of daring and sudden social ascent. It is highly useful and relevant to our cause. It will give you a new way to think. There is lots of hidden opportunity, but we are too moral and cautious and timid to seize those opportunities.
Sounds like good advice. I'd like to hear some real-world stories of WN getting involved, or leading, local activities.

I was addressing a rather different point. I do think a successful advocacy group could be created today. I've already outlined how it would work. The key is it would have public advocates, support staff, supporters. It would do things actually worth doing:

HARD SIDE - fighting our enemies

- hitting major hush crime scenes demanding justice - NEVER backing down, not physically, not verbally. (Not backing down verbally means never using the opponents' communist frames and terms but using only terms and frames that advance the White cause.)

- ADL/FBI-level checks on all insiders + development of enemy research

SOFT SIDE - helping ordinary people "Live White"

- developing curriculum. Contract with experts to develop K-12 and online Aryan State University to feed the burgeoning interest in HS/escaping the System schools and the anti-White lies they inculcate.

- coming up with best ways to grow local networks (I'm less clear on this point, but some way for private people not just to write checks to the Arayan Defense League but to create local groups doing things actually worth doing - this is where Kievsky's approach comes into play)

- maintaining national news/commentary site to promote White writers/analysts and speakers/activists

Give people something solid to be a part of.
 
Old August 20th, 2009 #49
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People express themselves in a variety of ways on the net, with a variety of audiences in mind (or not). There is no universal code of conduct or rules of engagement, apart from each board's own set of guidelines, so it basically comes down to judging the content and style of a person's post--you may like it or disagree with it, but it's up to you.
Thanks for explaining to me how the net works and that I'm free to decide whether I like a person's post or not. I didn't know that already.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic at hand.

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Whether or not a person is anonymous or has several handles on several sites is irrelevant IMO.
It's relevant when that person is behaving in a manner that he would not behave in if he had to post under his real name, or at least under a pseudonym whose reputation he cares to protect as much as his real name.

I've been on the net since '96. Having always been sensitive about privacy issues, I've used many pseudonyms throughout that time. I understand the psychology that accompanies using throwaway accounts.

Usenet has become practically unusable (no pun intended) because there are so many anonymous fucktards on there now who change their nyms every 5 seconds. 12 years ago, usenet was a great source of information and the few trolls that were on there were actually funny, unlike today's. The decline in usenet has everything to do with people not posting under their real names, or at least not maintaining consistent net personas.

If you're going to be anonymous, you should at least make an effort to treat your pseudonym as respectfully as you would your real name. Otherwise, you deserve to be taken about as seriously as a kid who makes prank calls.

And you don't have to listen to me, obviously -- I'm simply telling you what I consider to be an honest, honorable, ethical way to behave on the net.

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I don't see how different styles prevents meeting people in real life and forming bonds and potentially community.
Of course people have different "styles." Of course people have different opinions. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

You're defending anonymity so much that it makes me wonder if you aren't a troll. What legitimate motive could somebody have to have several different handles on several sites? The lady Anne doth protest too much.

Anyways, let's just drop this. I've made my point and I don't really have anything else to say. No need to go over it again and derail this thread in the process.
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Old August 20th, 2009 #50
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Precisely. We have to learn charisma and how to instill confidence in people, and only gradually reveal our true beliefs.
This DOES NOT WORK. You may think you've won people over with your charm, but as soon as the jews or one of their renfields identifies you and starts calling you a "racist" or a "nazi," you'll quickly find out what all of those friendships were really worth.

People go on and on about why WN doesn't go anywhere, and how we must do this or that instead. Well, did President Nixon advance our cause by keeping his beliefs about the jews hidden? Have such tactics gotten the conservative movement anywhere?

If you support the anti-Zionist movement, you're not a white nationalist; you're an anti-Zionist. If you support the patriotard movement, you're not a white nationalist; you're a patriotard. Supporting these other movements isn't clever and it doesn't help our cause. Perhaps we can recruit people from such movements, but we should never pretend to be part of them. If anti-Zionists want to hold public rallies against Israel's racist treatment of the Palestinians, I'm fine with that; I'm just not going to pretend to be one of them.

Despite the endless talk about racism in our society, the WN position is so foreign to most people that muds are actually surprised when I stand up to them (online) and tell them I don't want them in my country; they're not used to hearing that from whites. They may have heard that there were white racists on their TVs, but they've never come across any in person. They're flabbergasted and don't know how to deal with a white who doesn't scamper away with his tail between his legs when they call him a racist.

The WN position needs to be better known, and in order for it to be better known, it needs people who aren't afraid to overtly state their beliefs. Yes, you will be a pariah for openly stating your beliefs, but nothing in life is free. The role of a vanguard is to cut a path through the bush to make it easier for others to follow.
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Last edited by Igor Alexander; August 20th, 2009 at 05:03 PM.
 
Old August 20th, 2009 #51
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Usenet has become practically unusable (no pun intended) because there are so many anonymous fucktards on there now who change their nyms every 5 seconds. 12 years ago, usenet was a great source of information and the few trolls that were on there were actually funny, unlike today's. The decline in usenet has everything to do with people not posting under their real names, or at least not maintaining consistent net personas.
USENET's decline is the result of two factors: its deepening obsolescence and the unmoderated nature of the alt.* hierarchy. Plenty of civil forums exist online in which most - if not all - of the participants never use their real names. This is a matter of what kind of post content is permitted.

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If you're going to be anonymous, you should at least make an effort to treat your pseudonym as respectfully as you would your real name. Otherwise, you deserve to be taken about as seriously as a kid who makes prank calls.
One should never forget that the Internet is Serious Business.

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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
This DOES NOT WORK. You may think you've won people over with your charm, but as soon as the jews or one of their renfields identifies you and starts calling you a "racist" or a "nazi," you'll quickly find out what all of those friendships were really worth.
If you provide them with ammunition that makes those charges seem legitimate, that's what you'll get. If you don't, the MSM/ADL/SPLC/etc. will be perceived by anyone with half a brain as shrill and intolerant.

Quote:
People go on and on about why WN doesn't go anywhere, and how we must do this or that instead. Well, did President Nixon advance our cause by keeping his beliefs about the jews hidden? Have such tactics gotten the conservative movement anywhere?
Nixon's beef with the Jewish elite was chiefly personal, and certainly didn't extend to his views or policies involving Israel, media subversion, etc. I think his stormy association with Kissinger and the proliferation of Jewish personalities in the postwar Republican party is sufficient evidence of this.

Quote:
If you support the anti-Zionist movement, you're not a white nationalist; you're an anti-Zionist. If you support the patriotard movement, you're not a white nationalist; you're a patriotard. Supporting these other movements isn't clever and it doesn't help our cause. Perhaps we can recruit people from such movements, but we should never pretend to be part of them. If anti-Zionists want to hold public rallies against Israel's racist treatment of the Palestinians, I'm fine with that; I'm just not going to pretend to be one of them.
Why not? There's potential to meet new people, learn about how they function and network at these kinds of functions. Their political views are irrelevant; what they can offer - knowingly or otherwise - to the struggle against ZOG is what matters.

Quote:
The WN position needs to be better known, and in order for it to be better known, it needs people who aren't afraid to overtly state their beliefs. Yes, you will be a pariah for openly stating your beliefs, but nothing in life is free. The role of a vanguard is to cut a path through the bush to make it easier for others to follow.
WN is calcified, outmoded and ineffectual. Hardcore liberals and milquetoast kwans are terrified of it (even though they don't exactly understand why) and most racists who can identify with its core values recognize it as a dead end. You're better off forming malleable, effective connections with people who can get things done; whether or not they share your sentiments is irrelevant.
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Old August 20th, 2009 #52
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You're better off forming malleable, effective connections with people who can get things done; whether or not they share your sentiments is irrelevant.
I think that is basically the position of National Anarchism, no? It's good in the sense that there's strength in numbers (there are all kinds of anti-system people), but it's weak in that it believes vastly different groups can just co-operate until the state is brought down. You'd have to really stay focussed on the goal in order to stomach co-operating with a bunch of leftist loons and assorted fruits.

(I think Metzger was ahead of the game, by advocating co-operating with the greens and anti-globalists years ago).
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Old August 20th, 2009 #53
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Aside from us, Whites do not think or act in terms of racial solidarity. They are not ethnocentric. I think it is something that the larger body has to learn because, really, they have never had it before. White history is full of fratricidal wars between nation states. In some cases, such as the French and Indian War, they were more than happy to hire in non-Whites to kill fellow Whites.

The question is how to get Whites to think in racial terms instead of political party terms? Or -ism terms? Or subculture terms? That, IMO, is the question, or the problem. The person that figures out how to do that hits the jackpot.

I agree with Kievsky. Middle class people are more motivated. The poor classes have some that are, but most want beer and televitz. With proper motivation, they make good workers and soldiers. The jews have shown us this with their sandbox wars. Upper classes, of course, owe their $$$ to hobknobbing with the juden. They won't rock their boat.

I think Alex's idea is great for a core cadre of people. The question is how to expand it into large numbers of people.
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Old August 24th, 2009 #54
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When whites are allowed freedom of association and do not live in a "society of strangers" like they do for the most part today, whites will always be ethnocentric.

For example: When I went to boarding school it was almost all white (mostly Anglo-Celt and German with some Italians) the level of ethnocentrism/racism amongst the student body was very high. There was one Sephardic Jew there and you should've seen the hell we gave him for his heritage.

I once went on an anti-Jew tirade in front of him and nearly brought him to tears while the other big, mean whiteys looked on and laughed. It's moments like those I think back to every time things seem a little too hopeless for white ethnocentrism.
 
Old September 2nd, 2009 #55
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Default Moment, movement, momentum

I do not think the moment will come until there are significant fractures in the economy and politics. The recent health care question reaction comes to mind. Further demographic shifting, along with realization of the demographic deterioration, is also necessary.
In connection with the original consideration, I say that the reason this thing of ours has not taken off is spiritual, not religious, poverty. We have not yet spiritualized our quest. Given time, the White race may turn to our efforts as to a substitute for the degraded spirituality of the time. This may be so for the old and the young White victims, who finally realize that they are literally the second-class in a concrete, palpable day-to-day war imposed on them by Jews, African Americans, and Hispanics on an alien turf elaborated from the land of out fathers. There wil be no material progress until we learn to spiritualize our quest and our agenda as something like the Grail quest of the present time. Then, the Wotan archetype will be referenced and its energy released. At that point, it all is reduced to a mere engineering problem.
Interestingly, A. Hitler, in his last days (cf. published and unpublished diaries of Traudl Junge) prophesied that in perhaps one hundred years or less, "a movement based on the principles of National Socialism would sweep the world with the force of a religion."
Until this time, we can try to prepare the ground on good sites like this and try to non-virtually network, while we wait for the White savior and the White messianic era.
Jung and Campbell stressed that White salvation would come only by reconnecting with the myths of our people. Sadly, the enemy knew this and successfully cut off most of us from our great literature and mythology, even as this enemy rewrote our history. At that point, the White heart was deprived of life-giving blood. But just look at the benefits of exercise, good nutrition, and angioplasty in coronary artery disease.
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Old September 5th, 2009 #56
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[Alex Linder] Our cause - our ideas and our general case - has made headway, thanks to the Internet. However, no organization has developed providing plausible leadership or outlet for members to channel their skills and money. Why is this?



The track record over the past 60 years or so of organizational WNism is abysmal.

There is simply no upside today to organizational membership for quality individuals with something to lose. I do believe that can change in the future.

Blunt, but there it is. /shrug

I like the forum revamp, btw. Seems more focused.
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Last edited by Donnie in Ohio; September 5th, 2009 at 11:58 AM.
 
Old September 5th, 2009 #57
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Originally Posted by Donnie in Ohio View Post
[Alex Linder] Our cause - our ideas and our general case - has made headway, thanks to the Internet. However, no organization has developed providing plausible leadership or outlet for members to channel their skills and money. Why is this?



The track record over the past 60 years or so of organizational WNism is abysmal. No need to go into why.

There is simply no upside today to organizational membership for quality individuals with something to lose. I do believe that can change in the future.

Blunt, but there it is. /shrug

I like the forum revamp, btw. Seems more focused.
hey Donnie, how are your heirloom tomatoes doing? don't forget to give us an update and your thoughts when you have the time, I am very interested. thanks.

-George
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Old September 5th, 2009 #58
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hey Donnie, how are your heirloom tomatoes doing? don't forget to give us an update and your thoughts when you have the time, I am very interested. thanks.

-George
A smashing success. Been a very busy 6 weeks or so. Don't want to derail this thread with details. I'll post a lengthy update on my blog later today or tomorrow.
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Old August 17th, 2010 #59
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How, by participating in regional and state politics? Through the Republican party? Of course it doesn't work, because they're working in a system that won't have any part of them. The trick is to shed ideology and be an opportunist. Find a way to reach a large number of (mostly stupid and/or gullible) people and exploit them.
That is exactly what Barack Obama did. Not that I support BS Obama, but WN could learn from how he duped enough so called "moderates" to swing the votes.
 
Old August 28th, 2010 #60
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Hello all. New member here.

In the spirit of honesty on first contact I will say that I am not white but an Indian Muslim born in the US.

I have read this site for several months before I finally signed up to post something and this seems like the first topic on which I could offer something.

The basic problem with WN movements is that they offer too big of a target for all the enemies. Shooting down arguments or holding an anti-rally for any mass gathering of overt WNs is like shooting fish in barrel for the black, mexican, jew, leftist political groups.

Also the mass derision and professional costs experienced by WNs when they attend is too much to bear for normal people who have too much to lose. Thus WN events will mostly be attended by fringe elements which then feeds right into presenting the big target for the enemies.

I short, trying to gain political power through the overt WN movement is like trying to enter the promised land of political power through a cave that was dynamited long ago.

Now this doesn't mean you have to compromise on your principles to get anything done. But it does mean that a clever angle has to be used to motivate people of the right kind to join up and show up at events. In other words what kinds of people are there who are white, militant, and could easily be convinced in their racial imperative with a few enlightened speeches?

The gun rights crowd and the anti-gov/militia crowd. Predominantly white, angry, and there are potentially millions who would join a movement that did NOT preach overt racism at the beginning, but instead metered it in with intelectual arguments and speechs over time.

Since we all know this government is a jew front for exploitation and watering down of the one race they fear, the whites, every WN MUST BE ANTI-GOVERNMENT. Or you cannot be a WN in any meaningful fashion.

AND since any studied anti-government type has long ago realized that the government will only go by force. Every WN who realistically wants to solve the problem must be a militant.

Thus WNs are anti-government militants. You are a wholely contained subset of the anti-government militants. Who seek to take this government down. One way or the other.

The WN members must take hold of or create new gun rights organizations and anti-goverment movements that DO NOT SHOW OVERT WN agendas. Then build membership and slowly insert ideas to the members who will be without doubt 99.999% white, that these other groups, jews, blacks, mexicans, and immigrants BENEFIT GREATLY from the government by taking from YOU and giving to THEM.

This will turn them into WNs. And you will have successfully evaded any attempt classify your organization as a fringe racist group at the outset or anywhere along the way. You will hold the legal and moral high ground in all arenas. As a Nativist Rights Group.

An enlightened group of leaders will of course be necessary to make this happen. Your speakers will have to rival the best that have existed. And I think we all have a notion of who I'm referring to.

Good luck and hopefully this may help.

A Freeman
thefreemenproject.com
 
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