|
November 16th, 2012 | #1 | |
Administrator
|
#1 Jacques Ellul Thread ("Propaganda")
Came across this last night. Who thinks to doubt the value of mass 'education,' specifically the teaching of reading? Here's the other side of the arugument never made (emphasis added):
Quote:
|
|
November 16th, 2012 | #2 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 545
|
If a person hasn't read enough on a specific topic they lack the ability to know when they are reading something that is false. Also, simply believing the first thing you read can lead your pre-existing instinctive feelings on the issue in the opposite (wrong) direction.
|
November 16th, 2012 | #3 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 470
|
Pre-Crime and Propaganda...more thoughts from Ellul
pp. 100-102 Quote:
__________________
The mob was heading in, to ransack and loot the apartments of the terrified old men and women. When the troopers arrived, M-16s at the ready, the mob threatened and cursed, but the mob retreated. It had met the one thing that could stop it: force, rooted in justice, backed by courage.-1992 Republican National Convention Speech, Houston, Texas, by Patrick J. Buchanan August 17, 1992 |
|
November 16th, 2012 | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,006
|
The ideological backing for this is one idea- the State is above the individual. The individual is State property, to be used for State purposes.
Government schools are based on the notion of individual-as-State-property. The individual exists for State projects- the State is simply watching its assets. The view that one belongs to the State was never made explicit in the 'Kwa- some folks may have taken exception. |
November 16th, 2012 | #5 | ||
Celebrating My Diversity
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
|
Quote:
This very board demonstrates that every day. What you say would be true for deeply technical discussions, but not for everyday discourse. The vast majority don't suffer for lack of knowledge, but lack of thinking. Quote:
|
||
November 16th, 2012 | #6 | |
Moderator
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jew S. A.
Posts: 3,679
|
Quote:
For various reasons, including haste to get a good google placement on a potentially high traffic issue, the probability of linking to a spurious news item is increased. Read, think and replicate. is more important to us, at this point, than Move, shoot and communicate. |
|
November 16th, 2012 | #7 | |
Celebrating My Diversity
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
|
Quote:
I wasn't considering O'Malley threads, to put a name on them. |
|
November 16th, 2012 | #8 | |||||||
The Epitome of Evil
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Unseen University of New York
Posts: 3,130
|
Quote:
1) The intellectual argument (are you point-on-point dealing with your opponent's objections). 2) The propaganda argument (are you entertaining your audience so that you will maximise the number of people who find your argument appealing and thought provoking). Also it is a good idea; if debating in great detail in the presence of an audience, to simplify and summarise points rather than go in for stupidly detailed rebuttals (Mattogno style) unless you are doing so in front of a specialist audience as opposed to a popular one. Or put another way: humanise your argument, give rhetorical examples, traduce your enemies in a way your audience approves (e.g. 'the big-brained nincompoops' aka leftist/liberal intellectuals) and deliberately try to anger your opponent so they get unhinged and start making mistakes. Quote:
Quote:
Oh and something I learned debating jews is never go on the defensive ever... always attack as the minute you go on the defensive they will pounce on it. If you drive an entertaining intellectual steamroller over them then they can't do very much about it because they don't understand those rules: they love to scream rhetorical insults and as you squish them the rhetorical insults become meaningless to most of the audience (as it is evident they are hollow). Quote:
Oh and 'devil's advocating' is actually a good way to develop your understanding of your opponent as by trying to attack your own arguments you'll find their rhetorical and intellectual weaknesses and understand what you need to know to deal with that. E.g. A leftist uses the Shakespearian paraphrase: 'We all bleed red' (or variants there of) so you respond 'So do dogs: have you taken a fancy to your Rottweiler lately?' Quote:
Bread and circuses: simple as. People want entertainment, material comfort and the comfort of 'having special knowledge' of the world that makes them better informed than most about events (i.e. an ego trip for those without real power). Quote:
Quote:
It is kind of the basic law of physics which states that everything has an equal and opposite reaction that in this case means that every propaganda system has the problem of its own ideas, norms and forms being taken to their logical extension and used against it by revolutionary new propaganda systems. It is not about being right or wrong, but rather about winning. You win this war or you die trying to explain your failure away: that's the basic choice.
__________________
Last edited by Karl Radl; November 16th, 2012 at 03:59 PM. |
|||||||
November 16th, 2012 | #9 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 106
|
- Literacy
- Human progress - Going to school - Diplomas - College - Technological progress* The most overrated things in the last three centuries, things that will be actually interpreted by historians of the future as artifacts of our doom. * Most of tech is good, inasmuch as it brought improved chances of survival, life expectancy and free time to mankind... but it also brought photorealistic videogames and porn, the atomic bomb, psychoactive drugs, stupid shows on a TV, and an impossibility to physically hide from governments any longer. |
Tags |
jacques ellul, propaganda, reading |
Share |
Thread | |
Display Modes | |
|