A serious question.

[--JD--]

Originally Posted by SheerTerror

Who really cares what niggers are classified as? You can argue about this crap till you're blue in fucking face, and it doesn't change a damn thing.

Human or not, nogs will be nogs.

umm you have got a point

Sorry, didn't mean to ruin the fun.

Originally Posted by --JD--

umm you have got a point

Originally Posted by --JD--

Are niggers really human?

look at them! They look like fucking monkeys.

How the fuck are they classed as humans.

No we do not belong to the same species.

If us and niggers where two kinds of cows, the differences would be enough for two species rather than one species and two races.


They belong to a species between humans and the apes.

I have red enough about animals to draw this correlation.

[8Man]

Check out the info on our pal Bassou



See: Bassou: Man-Ape Hybrid?

Being human doesnt mean much. I would rather be some sort of animal than the certain types of "humans" we have. I'm more concerned with being White.

It is rather amazing how some blacks really do resemble primates. Not only that but certain types of primates. I'm sure weve all seen those Tyrone types that resemble gorillas. I always though the black rap star Eve (a woman) resembled an orangutang.




I cant really find any good pics to make a better comparison but she definately has an almost genuine monkey face in some of the better pictures. I cant really describe it in words but its there.

Originally Posted by 8Man

Check out the info on our pal Bassou



See: Bassou: Man-Ape Hybrid?

Just your typical civilization creating pyramid builder.

[BMF]

Originally Posted by Georgie

Just your typical civilization creating pyramid builder.

That is the mysterious big foot, ain't it?

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

Originally Posted by Cracker oftheWhip

You'll find this site interesting.
Real Hybrid Animals

fascinating!

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

1. Bassou: what were the primary sources? he could have been just a tard.

2. here folks at Science Forums debate ethics of man chimp hybrid. I didnt see anything serious in the conversation after a short glossing over, but maybe there is, take a look:

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/...?t=3764&page=4

3. a paper about human origins, mentions possible hybrids:

http://lonestar.texas.net/~lochness/...content_2.html

4. Professor Revilo Oliver on a newspaper article about ape-human hybrids. Can anybody confirm this? How about we send a letter to the publication and ask for confirmation of the story and their sources? This is very interesting.
-------------------------------------------
http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Wha...n_Wrought.html

WHAT HATH MAN WROUGHT?

by Professor Revilo P. Oliver (Liberty Bell, January 1992)


The Sun is a sensation-mongering weekly, sold chiefly to sensation-hungry females in the dreary barns called 'Supermarkets.' Its issue for 13 August 1991 contains an article of considerable interest, based on an articles in the British tabloid, Daily Star, which followed up a 'documentary' program of the British Broadcasting System. The article is supported by apparently genuine photographs.

British geneticists, we are told, successfully impregnated female chimpanzees with human sperm (race unstated) and have thus far produced two hybrid offspring, one now twelve years old, the other born three months ago.

The twelve-year-old creature is conspicuously bow-legged but habitually walks on two feet, although it has the very long arms, characteristic of apes and most niggers, that its mother used for walking on all fours, as apes normally do. It seems to have the coat of body hair that is common to all apes. It is partly bald, and its face resembles that of an enraged nigger of forty or fifty.

The infant has pale skin, abundant hair on the head but not, thus far, on the body, and the features of an ape modified with some human characteristics, especially about the eyes, ears, and forehead, while the shape of the upper part of the skull is almost completely human.

The twelve-year-old grunts but is incapable of articulate speech. Since he is the only creature of his hybrid species, he is necessarily solitary, but there is some silly speculation by Dr. Francis Wellington, the repentant geneticist who brought the secret project to public attention, who imagines that the hybrid was shocked when it looked into a mirror and is now melancholy because it is not human! If one judges by the rate of sexual maturity in apes and niggers, the creature is probably puberate, but the absence of a corresponding female will make it impossible to ascertain whether the hybrid creatures will be fertile or sterile.

There is nothing implausible about the article. It is common knowledge that commonly within a genus and sometimes within a whole family, a female of one species can be fecundated by a male of a greatly different species. Everyone is familiar with mules and hinnies and knows that the hybrids are sterile. We all know and regret that the various human species are capable of miscegenation and that the hybrids, disastrously for us, are not sterile.

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

more tales of hybrids:

"Oliver" the chimpman.

http://paranormal.about.com/library/.../aa022800a.htm

later reports confirmed he had 48 chromosones like a chimp.

(but that assumes that a human chimp hybrid, would not have 48 chromosones...)

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

http://www.ethicsandmedics.com/0407-1.html

The Science of Chimeras and Hybrids
What Are Chimeras and Hybrids?

The ancient Greeks used the term "chimera" to refer to a mythical creature with a lion's head, a goat's body, and a serpent's tail.1 Other chimeras included the faun (part man, part goat) and the minotaur (part man, part bull). Many chimeras inspired fear; for example, the minotaur lived in a labyrinth of caves and ate the flesh of men. Today, the word "chimera" evokes different fears, involving the ethical ramifications of experiments mixing humans and other species. There are two types of interspecies mixes: hybrids and chimeras.

A hybrid is the product of breeding two different species (via normal copulation or in vitro fertilization). Each cell in the hybrid's body has a mixture of genes from both of the parents. When interspecies hybrids are produced, many of them have serious genetic anomalies, are born sterile, or do not survive to birth. Mules, a cross between a female horse and a male donkey, are sterile.2 The fact that horses and donkeys can procreate despite the species difference is probably because of their genetic similarity, and because the number of chromosomes that they have is fairly close (sixty-four for a horse and sixty-two for a donkey3).

In the case of fertilization between members of the same species, when a cell in the embryo divides, the number of chromosomes in each new cell ends up being the same number as any somatic cell in the body of either of the parents. However, problems occur when two different species (with two different chromosome numbers) breed. During mitosis (cell division), when the cell attempts to divide the chromosomes equally, each side of the cell will have a different number of chromosomes than the somatic cells of each of the parents. This can cause embryonic abnormalities, placental incompatibilities, or abnormal feto-maternal interactions, which usually end in miscarriages.4 If the offspring survives to term, it will likely have a different appearance from the parents and will probably be sterile.

This sterility is also caused by uneven chromosome distribution. At a certain point in normal embryonic development, some cells become the primordial germ cells (cells which give rise to the gametes). These cells go through a division called meiosis or gametogenesis, which divides their diploid number of chromosomes into a haploid number. In an interspecies cross, the cells have an uneven number of chromosomes, so they cannot divide evenly from diploid into haploid. In mules, most such abnormal gametes degenerate early in this process. If they survive, they do not allow normal fertilization when interacting with the opposite-sex gametes, because of the aberrancies in the chromosome numbers.5 In nature, the chemical composition of the zona pellucida (a coating around the oocyte) generally prevents the union of oocyte and sperm from two different species. With in vitro fertilization, however, the zona can be digested by enzymes, allowing for laboratory interspecies fertilizations.6

A chimera also consists of a combination between two different species within an organism. However, the genes of the two species do not combine as with a hybrid. Rather, the cells in the body of a chimera are a mosaic of cells of different species.7 One way of producing an interspecies chimera is through in vitro manipulation of an embryo: during the first stages of cell division of the embryo, an embryonic cell from one species is inserted into the blastocyst of the other species. The introduced cell becomes part of the blastocyst, without fusing its genetic material with the other cells. The blastocyst cells (including the introduced cell) continue to divide, and a complete organism is formed with the different species' cells in a variegated pattern throughout the body. Sheep-goat chimeras (known as geeps) have been created this way by combining embryonic cells from sheep and goats at the blastocyst stage.8 Chimeras of different types of mice are produced routinely in research laboratories as part of the process of creating transgenic mice (mice designed to have a specific gene of interest either expressed or knocked out). A mouse embryonic stem (ES) cell is first genetically modified and grown in vitro. One or more of these ES cells are introduced into a blastocyst-stage embryo of another mouse (usually one that possesses a different coat color). The new ES cell is integrated into the blastocyst and the blastocyst is placed into a female mouse's uterus to grow. The offspring is a chimeric mouse with variegated cell composition and coat color, showing that the ES cell has integrated successfully.

In some of the offspring, the transgenic ES cells will have integrated into the germ-cell line (oocytes/sperm) of the mouse, meaning the transgenic properties can then be transmitted to new offspring through normal breeding (which is the final goal of the process).9 The term "chimera" can also be used to describe an organism that has received a genetically different organ or cell transplant and thus has cells of differing origin in its body.10

Genetic Similarities among Primates

If the gametes of a human and those of a species with a very different number of chromosomes were mixed in vitro, it is highly unlikely that fertilization would occur or that an embryo would even develop to the fetal stage. However, the combination of human and nonhuman primate gametes to make a hybrid would be of greater concern. Nonhuman primates, especially chimpanzees and gorillas, are considered the most genetically similar to humans. Also, their chromosome number is close, so theoretically there could be fewer problems with chromosome allocation during mitosis: humans have forty-six chromosomes, while chimpanzees and gorillas have forty-eight. The creation of a human/animal (especially primate) chimera at the embryonic or fetal stage would also be ethically problematic, especially if the chimerism involved transplantation of brain cells.

There are, nonetheless, significant differences between nonhuman primates and humans. It has been estimated that the genomes of humans and chimpanzees are approximately 98_99 percent genetically similar.11 This claim is misleading for several reasons. When DNA or protein sequences are compared, percentages are commonly used to denote the differences. Percentages are a precise and mathematical way of denoting difference which scientists find useful. However, a percentage is a "scalar, one-dimensional" measure; a body part is a "three-dimensional entity."12 A quantitative percentage in difference between interspecies stretches of DNA or protein do not reveal the qualitative differences in physiology, behavior, or intelligence (all of which are significantly different between man and chimp) which are produced by the DNA.

The 98_99 percent figure is also misleading because comparisons of DNA segments entail an element of subjectivity from the researcher. A comparison of two stretches of DNA can reveal three types of differences: substitutions, insertions, and deletions of nucleotides. Some researchers have decided that substitutions are what matters, and they do not "count" insertions and deletions in these comparisons, whereas others add them up all together or subjectively quantify one substitution as equal to a certain number of insertions/deletions. As can be expected, these end up producing various percent differences. Even among studies counting all insertions and deletions, there are different findings.13 Another important point regarding chimp-human DNA comparisons is that all the studies so far between chimps and humans have not studied the entire genomes, but only portions of them. One of the most extensive studies so far only compared less than 1 percent of the total human genome with similar portions of the chimp genome.14 In fact, a full human/chimp genome comparison could not even have been made until recently: the entire chimp genome was just published in December 2003, and that genome is in draft form (i.e., there are still some gaps in it).15

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

....coontinued...


Some Current Threats

Despite the interspecies DNA differences, chimps and gorillas are still the most genetically similar organisms to humans. If the gametes of a human and a chimp were mixed, there seems more possibility of genetic fusion than if the gametes of a pig and a human were mixed.16 Already, "cybrid" ("cell hybrid") cell lines have been made between human and chimpanzee cells and human and gorilla cells.17 I could find no publications of attempts to create a human/nonhuman primate hybrid or chimera; however, that does not rule out scientists having attempted this type of research without having published it. There have been recent experiments creating other human/animal chimeras,18 as well as experiments involving cloning techniques, utilizing the gametes of humans and animals. The ethical ramifications of these experiments will be analyzed in the next issue of Ethics & Medics.

In August 2003, Chinese researchers used cloning techniques to insert human fibroblast cells into enucleated rabbit oocytes. Their goal was to obtain human embryonic stem cells from the resultant blastocysts.19 They utilized rabbit oocytes because of the difficulty involved in obtaining large numbers of human donor oocytes. It is important to note that oocytes are not devoid of genetic material. The mammalian oocyte cytoplasm is rich in mitochondrial DNA,20 and "the cytoplasmic inheritance of mitochondrial DNA is an important component of eukaryotic inheritance."21 Interaction between mitochondrial DNA and nuclear DNA is known to occur, although the molecular basis of the cross talk between the mitochondrial genome and the nucleus is still "largely elusive."22 The stem cells obtained from the human/rabbit blastocysts in the Chinese study contained both the human genome and rabbit mitochondrial DNA.23 Thus, this experiment involved the interaction of animal and human DNA, despite the fact that the oocyte had been enucleated. This study was celebrated in the mainstream media by some scientists as "a big advance"24; however, an ethical examination of creating organisms involving DNA interactions between humans and rabbits during the embryonic timeframe was barely made in the mainstream press, if at all. The next issue of Ethics & Medics will explore the ethics involved in creating human/nonhuman hybrids and chimeras.

Tara Seyfer, B.S., M.T.S.
Research Scientist
Silver Spring, Maryland

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

Notes

1 W.H.D. Rouse, Gods, Heroes, and Men of Ancient Greece (New York: New American Library, 2001), 159. (Go Back)

2 Other hybrid examples are: male horse x female donkey = hinny; female horse x zebra male = zebrorse; female donkey x zebra male = zebronkey; all are sterile. S.M. Hopkins and G.C. Althouse, "Reproductive Patterns of Horses," in McDonald's Veterinary Endocrinology and Reproduction, 5th ed., ed. M.H. Pineda (Ames, IA: Iowa State Press, 2003), 428. (Go Back)

3 M.H. Pineda, "The Biology of Sex," in McDonald's, ed. Pineda, 203. (Go Back)

4 Ibid., 229; Hopkins and Althouse, "Reproductive Patterns of Horses," 429; M.H. Pineda, "Reproductive Patterns of Sheep and Goats," in McDonald's, ed. Pineda, 446. (Go Back)

5 Pineda, "The Biology of Sex," 203. (Go Back)

6 Ibid., 226_229. (Go Back)

7 Note that chimeras can also be formed (both artificially and naturally) between male cells and female cells of the same species (commonly known as hermaphrodites), or by the fusion of two zygotes. See Patricia Tippett, "Human Chimeras," in Chimeras in Developmental Biology, eds. Nicole Le Douarin and Anne McLaren (Orlando: Academic Press, 1984). For an account of a recent laboratory experiment wherein a hermaphrodite chimeric human embryo was created, see David Derbyshire, "Test-Tube `Monster' Condemned by Scientists," Telegraph (London), July 3, 2003. (Go Back)

8 Pineda, "Reproductive Patterns of Sheep and Goats," 446; and Dashka Slater, "Humouse," Legal Affairs (November/December 2002). (Go Back)

9 Richard M. Twyman and Bruce Whitelaw, "Genetic Engineering: Animal Cell Technology," in Encyclopedia of Cell Technology, vol. 2, ed. Raymond E. Spier (New York: John Wiley and Sons, 2000): 803_805. (Go Back)

10 Biagio John Melloni, ed., Melloni's Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 2nd ed. (Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1985). (Go Back)

11 M.-C. King and A.C. Wilson, "Evolution at Two Levels in Humans and Chimpanzees," Science 188.4184 (April 11, 1975): 107_116. (Go Back)

12 Jonathan Marks, What It Means To Be 98% Chimpanzee: Apes, People, and Their Genes (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2002), 24. (Go Back)

13 For instance, one study found a 95 percent similarity between chimps and humans when counting all the insertion and deletion differences in a DNA segment comparison, with some parts of that segment exhibiting greater than 20 percent difference. Roy J. Britten, "Divergence between Samples of Chimpanzee and Human DNA Sequences Is 5%, Counting Indels," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 99.21 (October 15, 2002), 13633_13635. Another study found only 86.7 percent similarity in studying a specific segment when taking into account the insertions/deletions. Tatsuya Anzai et al., "Comparative Sequencing of Human and Chimpanzee MHC Class I Regions Unveils Insertions/Deletions as the Major Path to Genomic Divergence," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 100.13 (June 24, 2003): 7708_7713. These are in contrast with the previous studies claiming 98_99 percent similarity. (Go Back)

14 Asao Fujiyama et al., "Construction and Analysis of a Human-Chimpanzee Comparative Clone Map," Science 295.5552 (January 4, 2002): 131_134. (Go Back)

15 National Human Genome Research Institute (of the National Institutes of Health), "Chimp Genome Assembled by Sequencing Centers," press release, December 10, 2003 (http://www.genome.gov/11509418) states that an international team of scientists "is currently comparing the chimp and human genome sequences and plans to publish results of its analysis in the next several months." (Go Back)

16 However, epithelial cells have been found to fuse between pigs and humans in the context of adult human bone marrow cells being injected into fetal pigs. Brenda M. Ogle et al., "Spontaneous Fusion of Cells between Species Yields Transdifferentiation and Retroviral Transfer In Vivo," FASEB Journal (published online January 8, 2004). (Go Back)

17 Antoni Barrientos, Lesley Kenyon and Carlos T. Moraes, "Human Xenomitochondrial Cybrids: Cellular Models of Mitochondrial Complex I Deficiency," Journal of Biological Chemistry 273.23 (June 5, 1998): 14210_14217. (Go Back)

18 Sylvia Pagán Westphal, "`Humanised' Organs Can be Grown in Animals, New Scientist (December 17, 2003), http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99 994492; Graça Almeida-Porada and Esmail D. Zanjani, "A Large Animal Noninjury Model for Study of Human Stem Cell Plasticity," Blood Cells, Molecules, and Diseases 32.1 (January_February 2004): 77_81; Judith A. Airey et al., "Human Mesenchymal Stem Cells Form Purkinje Fibers in Fetal Sheep Heart," Circulation 109.11 (March 23, 2004): 1401_1407; Gaia Vince, "Pig-Human Chimeras Contain Cell Surprise," NewScientist.com (January 13, 2004); Ogle et al., "Spontaneous Fusion"; Steven Reinberg, "Scientists Create Mice with Human Immune Systems," HealthDay (April 1, 2004), http://www.health day.com/printer.cfm?id=518212; Elisabetta Traggiai et al., "Development of a Human Adaptive Immune System in Cord Blood Cell-Transplanted Mice," Science 304.5667 (April 2, 2004): 104_107. (Go Back)

19 Ying Chen, et al., "Embryonic Stem Cells Generated by Nuclear Transfer of Human Somatic Nuclei into Rabbit Oocytes," Cell Research 13.4 (2003): 251_263. They made over eight hundred attempts; of these, 107 of the embryos developed to the blastocyst stage. A number of these were killed at this stage in order to extract ES cells. (Go Back)

20 Pineda, "The Biology of Sex," 229. (Go Back)

21 Ibid. Also note that in IVF clinics, the deliberate injection of oocyte mitochondria and mitochondria-containing cytoplasm from younger donated oocytes into older oocytes has been performed to overcome age-related oocyte abnormalities and increase chances of pregnancy. See John Zhang et al., "Nuclear and Cytoplasmic Transfer in Mouse and Human Oocytes," in A Color Atlas for Human Assisted Reproduction: Laboratory and Clinical Insights, eds. Pasquale Patrizio, Michael J. Tucker, and Vanessa Guelman (Philadelphia: Lippin-cott Williams and Wilkins, 2003), 202_204; and Gianpiero Palermo, "Assisted Fertilization by Intracytoplasmic Sperm Injection (ICSI)," in An Atlas of Human Gametes and Conceptuses: An Illustrated Reference for Assisted Reproductive Technology, ed. Lucinda Veeck (New York: The Parthenon Publishing Group, 1999), 81_82. This procedure effectively brings a third parent (the owner of the donor oocyte material) into the process by way of the mitochondrial DNA transferred into the recipient oocyte. (Go Back)

22 Ulrich Mühlenhoff and R. Lill, "Mitochondria: Methods for Preparation," in Encyclopedia of Life Sciences, vol. 12, eds. Sarah Robertson et al. (London: Macmillan Publishers Ltd., 2002), 108. (Go Back)

23 Chen, "Embryonic Stem Cells," 254. (Go Back)

24 Rick Weiss, "Cloning Yields Human-Rabbit Hybrid Embryo," Washington Post, August 14, 2003, A4. (Go Back)

[end]