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Old May 13th, 2019 #21
T.Garrett
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Talking ok then

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Originally Posted by Stewart Meadows View Post
I didn't say that I can't "understand much Sardinian", I said that I don't speak it (because that's what you asked me). Do you understand the difference between active and passive knowledge of a language?
Ah, ok I didn't make that distinction because I rarely have discussions with people involving the nuances of linguistics. Of course I understand, I actively speak American English (New Yawk gibberish) and have passive knowledge of Dutch and German and to a lesser extent, Quebecois French.

Just out of curiosity did you become familiar with Sardinian from being around people who spoke the language daily as their native tongue or did you learn what you know about the language during the course of your studies as you say you did Latin?

You really don't catch on very quickly when I'm joking with you Stewart, maybe its the medium we are using to communicate here?

OK, I say fuck your academics I believe Italian is closer to Latin than semitized Sardinian, its basically like splitting a hair to say either language is 'closer' to the ancient tongue according to the experts anyway.

At worst, I'm only a little bit wrong.

Last edited by T.Garrett; May 13th, 2019 at 08:17 PM. Reason: cant forget the French
 
Old May 14th, 2019 #22
Ray Allan
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It would be interesting if Alex Him could give us some insight about various Russian dialects. Russia is a vast country with many different dialects. Then there are offshoots of the Russian language such as Ukrainian and Belarusian.
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Old May 14th, 2019 #23
Stewart Meadows
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Originally Posted by T.Garrett View Post
Ah, ok I didn't make that distinction because I rarely have discussions with people involving the nuances of linguistics. Of course I understand, I actively speak American English (New Yawk gibberish) and have passive knowledge of Dutch and German and to a lesser extent, Quebecois French.
Exactly. That's what I'm talking about.

Quote:
Just out of curiosity did you become familiar with Sardinian from being around people who spoke the language daily as their native tongue or did you learn what you know about the language during the course of your studies as you say you did Latin?
The latter (i.e. the bolded part).

Quote:
You really don't catch on very quickly when I'm joking with you Stewart, maybe its the medium we are using to communicate here?
Yeah, maybe it's the medium...or maybe I'm just slower than the average person. (Could be.)

Quote:
OK, I say fuck your academics I believe Italian is closer to Latin than semitized Sardinian,
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think that you're putting too much emphasis on the Semitic influence. It's not like Sardinian is some half-Romance/half-Semitic gutter language; it has a solid Latin base.

Even if you just take a quick look at some Sardinian texts or sentences, it almost immediately becomes apparent why it's considered the most conservative Romance language. Look at the following excerpt from the Wikipedia article that I linked to in one of my previous posts:

Quote:
For example, Latin "Pone mihi tres panes in bertula" (put three loaves of bread [from home] in the bag for me) would be the very similar "Ponemi tres panes in bertula" in Sardinian.[22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinian_language

In the Italian-language version of this Wikipedia page, the above sentence reads "Mettimi tre pani nella bisaccia". Now let's compare these languages to each other:

English: Put three loaves of bread in the bag for me.

Latin: Pone mihi tres panes in bertula.

Sardinian: Ponemi tres panes in bertula.

Italian: Mettimi tre pani nella bisaccia.

(Bisaccia is an old-fashioned word for a kind of bag that peasants used to have. The most common modern-day Italian word for bag is borsa, which appears to be of Greek origin. However, if you're talking about a backpack, the kind that school kids wear, you would normally say zaino, which is a Germanic loanword.)

Now, do you see how similar Sardinian is to Latin? Especially compared to Italian? Yes, I know, this is just one sentence, and you could say that the person who wrote the Wikipedia article was cherry-picking, but it's just one of many examples.
 
Old May 15th, 2019 #24
T.Garrett
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Talking Stewart is out in the Meadow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart Meadows View Post
The latter (i.e. the bolded part).
Why couldn't you just simply say you became familiar with Sardinian during your studies at ...I don't believe you said where?

Quote:
Yeah, maybe it's the medium...or maybe I'm just slower than the average person. (Could be.)
I was kidding but now I'm beginning to wonder ...

Quote:
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think that you're putting too much emphasis on the Semitic influence. It's not like Sardinian is some half-Romance/half-Semitic gutter language; it has a solid Latin base.
Like Maltese

Quote:
Even if you just take a quick look at some Sardinian texts or sentences, it almost immediately becomes apparent why it's considered the most conservative Romance language. Look at the following excerpt from the Wikipedia article that I linked to in one of my previous posts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinian_language

In the Italian-language version of this Wikipedia page, the above sentence reads "Mettimi tre pani nella bisaccia". Now let's compare these languages to each other:

English: Put three loaves of bread in the bag for me.

Latin: Pone mihi tres panes in bertula.

Sardinian: Ponemi tres panes in bertula.

Italian: Mettimi tre pani nella bisaccia.

(Bisaccia is an old-fashioned word for a kind of bag that peasants used to have. The most common modern-day Italian word for bag is borsa, which appears to be of Greek origin. However, if you're talking about a backpack, the kind that school kids wear, you would normally say zaino, which is a Germanic loanword.)
Again with that wiki page, I expected more from someone who studied a language at university level. Some anecdotes regarding your studies, links to obscure pages about Romance languages on the web, some poetry.

There's huge volume of high quality verse in Romance languages ...but I get nothing. Nothing from Virgil, no Dante, no St Francis who wrote the first literature in Italian language (Umbrian dialect) Laudes Creaturarum none other than the Canticle of the Sun, which is a favorite of mine, no Ezra Pound who once called the English a slave race ruled by the jewish Rothschilds ...????

Just one sentence from a wikipedia article? You studied languages?

Quote:
Now, do you see how similar Sardinian is to Latin? Especially compared to Italian? Yes, I know, this is just one sentence, and you could say that the person who wrote the Wikipedia article was cherry-picking, but it's just one of many examples.
No I really don't see, Stewie. But I'm just breaking ballz. I'll stick to my opinion because you haven't shown me anything but a wiki article which you keep citing over and over and this is becoming redundant and boring.

Cheers bro, have a good one!

Last edited by T.Garrett; May 15th, 2019 at 07:19 AM. Reason: I'm hung over and spelling is atrocious
 
Old May 15th, 2019 #25
T.Garrett
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Talking Texas Style Cotton Eye Joe ...or the BULLSHIT song



From the White American (Texas dialect) catalog of line dancin music, check it out

Last edited by T.Garrett; May 15th, 2019 at 08:02 AM.
 
Old May 15th, 2019 #26
Stewart Meadows
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Originally Posted by T.Garrett View Post
Again with that wiki page (…) Just one sentence from a wikipedia article? You studied languages?
I linked to that Wikipedia article because it's filled with important information about the subject that we're discussing. I get the impression that you didn't read it or that you read it but didn't understand it.

But if you feel that that's not enough, then here's a link to a (small) Latin-Sardinian dictionary that you can read for free on the internet:

http://www.pittau.it/Sardo/voc/vocabolario.html

You can compare the two languages to each other and observe all the similarities. Of course, it helps if you also speak Italian because then it will become apparent why Sardinian is considered the most conservative Romance language (and thus the closest to Latin).
 
Old May 16th, 2019 #27
T.Garrett
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Talking ahhhh ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart Meadows View Post
I linked to that Wikipedia article because it's filled with important information about the subject that we're discussing. I get the impression that you didn't read it or that you read it but didn't understand it.

But if you feel that that's not enough, then here's a link to a (small) Latin-Sardinian dictionary that you can read for free on the internet:

http://www.pittau.it/Sardo/voc/vocabolario.html

You can compare the two languages to each other and observe all the similarities. Of course, it helps if you also speak Italian because then it will become apparent why Sardinian is considered the most conservative Romance language (and thus the closest to Latin).
I read the article and understand it, I just don't agree with it. I gave the reasons why I don't agree and you responded 'well, that's your opinion' so as far as I'm concerned discussion over.

Thanks for the link to the dictionary, and no I don't speak Italian I only understand a little from being around folks who are fluent in the language here in NYC.

I'll check it out when I have a little more time I'm in the process of putting my boat in the water for the season and need to do a few upgrades on the electrical system and the electronics so I'll be busy with that for awhile. My 'black hole' in the water.

BTW I asked my goombah at Wine@79 if he knew of a good Sardinian red ...I buy this Tuscan Sangiovese to drink with my friends there, he's getting a few bottles that I'll put on the table this weekend and see if I hear a "get the fuck outta here" over supper.

Ciao for now buddy

Last edited by T.Garrett; May 16th, 2019 at 12:25 AM.
 
Old January 22nd, 2024 #28
Stewart Meadows
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Originally Posted by ColdFire View Post
It is amazing to note that languages like Dutch and Swiss-German are reminiscent of ancient German dialects . . Dutch , if you will , is a German dialect . . Those who speak / understand neither , compare the two . .
There's this new tweet by the koshervative Dutch politician Geert Wilders that's been making the rounds - not because of the guy's political opinions/commentary, but because apparently a lot of people (mainly Americans, I assume) think the tweet looks funny due to the similarities between the Dutch and the English languages:




Quote:
We Hebben Een Serieus Probleem

Part of a series on English to Dutch Translations. [View Related Entries]

We Hebben Een Serieus Probleem refers to a viral post on X / Twitter in mid-January 2024 by Dutch politician Geert Wilders and the response by English-speaking users who found the similarities between the Dutch and English languages entertaining, similar to English To Dutch Translations memes. The tweet notably became a reaction image meme format as it spread online.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-he...rieus-probleem


Here are some of the memes that Wilders' tweet has spawned:





Last edited by Stewart Meadows; January 22nd, 2024 at 03:19 AM.
 
Old January 22nd, 2024 #29
Stewart Meadows
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Quote:
We Hebben Een Serieus Probleem refers to a viral post on X / Twitter in mid-January 2024 by Dutch politician Geert Wilders and the response by English-speaking users who found the similarities between the Dutch and English languages entertaining, similar to English To Dutch Translations memes.
Quote:
English to Dutch Translations, also associated with the catchphrase Dutch Is Not a Serious Language, refers to comical translations of English phrases to Dutch. In January 2022, a Twitter user shared the Dutch translation for the phrase "spank me daddy," showing the results "geef me een klap papa," sparking a trend that month where users share the English to Dutch translation for similar comedic phrases in memes.
(...)
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/engli...h-translations
 
Old January 22nd, 2024 #30
Stewart Meadows
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.
When I first saw the Geert Wilders tweet, I didn't understand why it was trending. I kept looking at it to try to figure out why people were commenting on, and laughing at it, but eventually I gave up and went to the reliable "Know Your Meme" site to get the explanation, and I was, like, "That's it? How lame."

One would probably have to be an Anglo to find stuff like this funny since Anglos are normally monolingual, and so they might not be used to the many similarities between English and other Germanic languages. Personally, I often listen to, and read texts in, Romance, Germanic and Slavic languages and dialects, and I compare them to each other, so I don't experience this "novelty effect".
.

Last edited by Stewart Meadows; January 22nd, 2024 at 07:28 AM.
 
Old January 22nd, 2024 #31
Stewart Meadows
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Originally Posted by ColdFire View Post
Concerning the English language in general . . I know that there are different varieties of English , like for example that 'Pidgin'-english spoken by Negroes especially in the Caribbean . .

Jamaican 'Patois' . .
The BBC publishes articles in Nigerian Pidgin. Here's a sample:

Quote:
SA wan stop Mandela family from selling im ID card, shirts, walking stick, Bible, Quran, oda items


By Gloria Aradi
BBC News
19 January 2024

South Africa goment dey try to stop controversial auction of 70 personal items wey belong to anti-apartheid hero Nelson Mandela.

Dem include one set of hearing aids, ID card, gifts from world leaders and some of di first democratic president clothing, such as im statement "Madiba" shirts.

Im eldest daughter, Makaziwe Mandela, dey auction di items in di US.

But di South African goment tok say di items belong to di nation.

Under di kontri law, items wey dem consider to be of national heritage dem no fit carry am comot for South Africa.
https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/articles/cy6w80x3qn9o
 
Old January 25th, 2024 #32
Stewart Meadows
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The following post/tweet feels kinda similar to Wilders' "probleem" meme, only it's in German, and not Dutch:


 
Old January 28th, 2024 #33
U. Dunrouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart Meadows View Post
There's this new tweet by the koshervative Dutch politician Geert Wilders that's been making the rounds - not because of the guy's political opinions/commentary, but because apparently a lot of people (mainly Americans, I assume) think the tweet looks funny due to the similarities between the Dutch and the English languages:



https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-he...rieus-probleem

Here are some of the memes that Wilders' tweet has spawned:



What else could be expected from two Germanic languages?
If today's people were not so ignorant, they wouldn't be surprised about that.
Do all those ignoramuses even know that English is a Germanic language?
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Old January 28th, 2024 #34
U. Dunrouse
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Originally Posted by Stewart Meadows View Post
.
The following post/tweet feels kinda similar to Wilders' "probleem" meme, only it's in German, and not Dutch:

The German words suchen dich don't mean "sucking dick." They mean "seeking you."
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Old January 28th, 2024 #35
Stewart Meadows
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Originally Posted by U. Dunrouse View Post
What else could be expected from two Germanic languages?
If today's people were not so ignorant, they wouldn't be surprised about that.
Do all those ignoramuses even know that English is a Germanic language?
Yeah, that was my reaction too.

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Originally Posted by U. Dunrouse View Post
The German words suchen dich don't mean "sucking dick." They mean "seeking you."
Well, yes, I know that since I studied German in school, but to the average American it probably looks like it says "sucking dick".
 
Old February 1st, 2024 #36
Stewart Meadows
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Originally Posted by ColdFire View Post
I know in other European places like France it is known that Paris for example "speaks the best French" . . .

Often "the best version of the respective language" is spoken in the respective capitals . . such is the case in France.
But . . believe me . . it isn't the case for Germany

Au contraire , the Berlin-dialect is quite far from standard-German . .

Example . . The phrase "Das will ich kaufen" ("I want to buy that") in the Berlin-dialect would sound "Det will ick koofen".
This is interesting stuff. Regarding the red, bolded part, it's the same in Italy where the standard language is based on the Tuscan dialect, and not on the one spoken in the capital (Rome). This goes for Croatia as well, where the standard language is based on the Shtokavian dialect, and not on the Kajkavian dialect spoken in the capital (Zagreb). I've heard people say that the best, purest form of Croatian is found in Herzegovina.

Last edited by Stewart Meadows; February 1st, 2024 at 06:12 AM.
 
Old February 3rd, 2024 #37
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Slovenia is an interesting place linguistically speaking, as it has a huge amount of dialects and subdialects, which is unusual for such a small country.

Quote:
Spoken Slovene is often considered to have at least 48 dialects[7] (narečja) and 13 subdialects (podnarečja). The exact number of dialects is open to debate,[8] ranging from as many as 50[9] to merely 7.[10] According to the official chart, published by the Fran Ramovš Institute, there are 48 dialects and 13 subdialects, but that includes all dialects spoken in Slovene.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_dialects
 
Old February 18th, 2024 #38
Stewart Meadows
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The Cinderella fairy tale, which is known and loved by so many people all over the world, has its origin in the Kingdom of Naples, and was first written in the Neapolitan dialect/language.
 
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