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Old April 29th, 2015 #1
George Witzgall
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Default Blood Nationalism

This is a thread dedicated to "blood nationalism", which sorta takes what was best about national socialism, the importance of honoring the sanctity of the blood of the nation, and discards the extraneous stuff, like requiring that a dictator lead the nation.

A blood-nation is one which sees as its first duty preventing (undue) outside influence on its peoples' genetic heritage.

I think it's most powerful to use the analogy of mother and child to defend this ideology; people will say it is evil, racist, will lead to war and genocides, etc... But mothers aren't evil for loving their children over unrelated persons; a mother doesn't kill off unrelated children to give her child an edge, because she recognizes those children belong to other mothers who feel the same way she does about her child, and it would be evil to kill them; likewise a blood-nation would (hopefully) never attempt to "kill" another blood-nation (i.e. genocide their people) because they fully realize how evil it would be. And, in fact, if blood-nations are somehow prevented from forming by the globalists, people will eventually miscegenate and it's like the potential nations of the world are obliterated, which is unacceptable.

Also, why should Israel be allowed to have blood-nationalism but not us goyim?

Any rate, I hope people will think about whether blood-nationalism is something positive we can get behind and promote as WNs. Comments, concerns, criticisms are appreciated.
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Old April 29th, 2015 #2
George Witzgall
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Biological sovereignty. Might be a useful phrase.
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Old April 30th, 2015 #3
George Witzgall
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Note that a blood-nation is not a state, or a physical territory, but a people pledging themselves to defending their collective genepool. Whether or not they ultimately control territory and establish a state is of course relevant to how successful they'll be as a nation, but not having such doesn't negate their nationhood.

I was originally conceiving blood nationalism for European nations (or other nations around the world like the Japanese, etc..), but the same principle could serve to define a generic "White" nation; that is, a collection of people dedicated to preserving "White" blood (these would be American, Canadian, Australian, etc.. generic whites who wouldn't qualify for belonging to a European nation).

Blood nationalism starts off as a cultural (or "religious" if you want to think of it that way) movement, rather than an overtly political movement, although in a European country if it gets strong enough there is an expectation it could progress to a political movement, following the pattern of stateless Jews creating the State of Israel; e.g. there is an expectation that blood-Swedes will eventually grow powerful enough to re-take Sweden.
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Old April 30th, 2015 #4
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It's obvious Witzy that you have a veiled admiration for Jews and especially Zionism. It's not just you, the other log cabin conservatives in the white nationalist scene of America seem to love the idea of "white zionism" too.

Problem is its ahistorical. Whites don't have a Talmud, nor global monopoly on power, copying Jews is relevant insofar as fighting them on our turf, but the political order in the wake of victory should and will look like Hitler's Germany if you have any hope of sustaining a racial revolution.

White people already have states. It's just that the government, media, and economy are not in our hands. Very different from Jews who had no state, yet had other people's government,media, and businesses in their hands (and still do, even with a state).

Everything else you're saying is just redundant and not original at all. It reaks more of you trying to make common cause or encourage whites to admire Israel, which has nothing admirable about it at all.
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Old May 1st, 2015 #5
George Witzgall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Smith View Post
It's obvious Witzy that you have a veiled admiration for Jews and especially Zionism. It's not just you, the other log cabin conservatives in the white nationalist scene of America seem to love the idea of "white zionism" too.
"White zionism", OK, except that implies there is already a "White nation", and we're just looking for a "homeland", which is putting the cart before the horse. My point is, we first need to create a "White nation" before we can even think about looking for a "homeland".

Creating a "nation" is the difficult part. I'm saying that if a people believe they have the right and duty to preserve their genetic heritage, then they constitute a nation, or "blood-nation" if you want to call it that.

Quote:
Problem is its ahistorical. Whites don't have a Talmud, nor global monopoly on power, copying Jews is relevant insofar as fighting them on our turf, but the political order in the wake of victory should and will look like Hitler's Germany if you have any hope of sustaining a racial revolution.
We don't need a "Talmud" to create a "White nation", as explained above, we just need people who believe they have the right and duty to preserve their genetic heritage.

Nor do we need a global monopoly on power. Who can stop a people from pledging themselves to a blood-nation? It's not racist or anti-semitic or supremacist; it's not about being "superior" to other peoples. Is it racist or anti-semitic or supremacist to want to marry/procreate with someone of your own "ethnicity"? Is a mother racist for choosing to have a biological baby instead of an unrelated baby?

Quote:
the political order in the wake of victory should and will look like Hitler's Germany if you have any hope of sustaining a racial revolution.
There's no a priori need for the state of a blood-nation to be led by a strongman; these will tend to be non-robust, failed nation-states like one might expect in sub-saharan Africa.

Quote:
White people already have states. It's just that the government, media, and economy are not in our hands. Very different from Jews who had no state, yet had other people's government,media, and businesses in their hands (and still do, even with a state).
I would argue having the government, media, and economy in your hands is exactly what is meant by having a state. But beyond this I don't know what exactly you mean by "white people"; to be more specific, the goal is for blood-nationals to be running their state (e.g. for Sweden to be run by blood-Swedes).
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Old May 1st, 2015 #6
George Witzgall
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Originally Posted by George Witzgall View Post
the goal is for blood-nationals to be running their state (e.g. for Sweden to be run by blood-Swedes).
Actually I got that wrong. The nation is what is most important; the state is secondary, and serves to buttress and support the nation. So the ultimate goal is for the nation to live long and prosper (sorry cheesy).
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Old May 1st, 2015 #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Witzgall View Post
"White zionism", OK, except that implies there is already a "White nation", and we're just looking for a "homeland", which is putting the cart before the horse. My point is, we first need to create a "White nation" before we can even think about looking for a "homeland"...
Before you get too lonely quoting yourself in your own thread, I'd like to add that such a nation has plenty of diaspora waiting.
Previous attempts at doing what you suggest on a small scale have collapsed, here in Germany (in the former East German side), due to outside meddling from those who attempt to force their "values" and ideology onto those who want no part of it, comparing the situation with women fighting tooth & nail, in attempting to enter all male clubs. Not because all-male clubs could give them any gratification or advantages. But, simply to prove a point.
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Old May 1st, 2015 #8
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There's no such thing as a white nation. That's the #1 problem with white nationalism, it's not describing an actual actual people with an integrated history, and thus destiny. America never underwent the same ethnogenesis of traditional European nations, or even new world European settler states in the southern cone (Spanish, Italian, sometimes German) or Australia/NZ (British Isles).

The experience and day to day customs of a Michigan Polish, Wisconsin German, Howard Beach Italian, Boston Irish Catholic, New England WASP, and Scots-Irish Southerner are radically different, even if their broader interests and desires overlap heavily. It's been demonstrated time and time again that Europeans north , south, east and west are remarkably similar genetically, (IE, come from the same 3 founding populations, albeit in somewhat different percentages), but genetics and blood only provide a foundation, without a culture or understanding it's impossible to get everyone on the same page and compel them to fight for a concept they don't have any real emotional ties to.

The USA is fragmented into a few roughly defined regional cultures. Some people on here hate to hear that, but it is what it is. The average Germanic person in the Pacific Northwest does not really understand the less inhibited Southerner, or the typical Texas pissant, or fast talking, energetic Northeast Italians and Irish, and vice versa.


If you want white nationalism, you're going to have to create a new culture for white Americans from scratch, first. I know for a fact that most of Europe will eventually wake up, get together, and overthrow their Jews, even heavily jew'd ones like Sweden have shown remarkable progress in the white-sphere in the last 3 years alone. America on the other hand is doomed by its individualism-the precise reason a real white American culture was never fused into a concrete entity.
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Old May 1st, 2015 #9
George Witzgall
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Yeah, to me Europe is what's most important; unless strong ethnic identities emerge which stress the importance of blood, I think Europe as we know it will pretty much disappear this century. Africa is set to more than quadruple its population, and if even a small percentage crosses over into Europe each year, there'll be more African than European by century's end. This is the most pressing problem. How to convince people it's not evil to assert that they want to preserve their nation's blood? That's what I was hoping to accomplish with "blood-nationalism".

As for diaspora whites, the rationale for blood-nationalism is a lot weaker, although I'm still thinking about it. Most people believe it is racist (or silly) to want to marry/procreate within your "race"; unless you can justify it by saying it's not because you think whites are inherently superior, but because you are a "Blood-White", who believes that a people, and not just whites, should have the right to preserve their collective genetic heritage (here you can talk about Jews lamenting the problem of marrying "out").

And if they say that Jews are a religion and not a race, you can say "Blood-Whites" are also a religion, not a race. Blood-Whites aren't racist. They are not supremacist. They are not anti-semitic. They just share a whacky belief of wanting to be a part of a "blood-nation" (don't use the term race!).

This can maybe convince folks you aren't racist. But it won't convince them you aren't silly.
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Smith View Post
...The average Germanic person in the Pacific Northwest does not really understand the less inhibited Southerner, or the typical Texas pissant, or fast talking, energetic Northeast Italians and Irish, and vice versa...
That's why neither the Kwa nor, to a much lesser degree, any of the other "New Worlds" is a suitable genetic base for blood nationalism, like the origin tribes in Europe are. Keeping the Kwa White, however, is important for other reasons which are geo-political. A Brazilian Kwa is a threat to Europe, because a Mongrel society no longer has ties to its partial-European roots.
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #11
George Witzgall
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That's why neither the Kwa nor, to a much lesser degree, any of the other "New Worlds" is a suitable genetic base for blood nationalism
Agree. Even just looking at Germany, there are lots of sub-ethnicities, and in some cases very significant ones are not given proper respect, for example the Franconians (Franken). Thanks to Napoleon they got lumped in with Bavaria, but they have their own distinct history and culture (they are the descendants of Frankish elites), and they deserve their own state separate from Bavaria. I'm not saying they should get fussy about their blood (when it comes to fellow Germans), but by having their own state, they can better preserve their heritage as a people.
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #12
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Blood nationalism is also a good way to preserve the "values" and attitudes of a people, because these come in the main from the parents, and are instilled at a young age, when the brain is like a sponge. So if your mom (assuming she raised you) is X, you are indelibly X-like by the time you can even think about it; it's the subconscious shit that you can't unlearn since it's how you filter and make sense of the world.
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #13
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Blood Nationalism = best chance of survival as a nation
Mud Nationalism (allowing wholly foreign outsiders to come in and "assimilate") = death of nation (ultimately becomes non-distinctive and globalized)
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #14
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Interesting: According to Jewish law ("normative Halachic practice"), if your biological mother is a Jew, then you are a Jew, even if you were adopted and raised by non-Jews since birth; but if your biological mother is a non-Jew, then even if you were adopted by Jews at birth and had a bris and celebrated Jewish holidays and became a Bar Mitzvah and considered yourself Jewish your entire life, that is not enough to be considered a Jew.

see http://judaism.stackexchange.com/que...by-jews-jewish

http://judaism.stackexchange.com/que...-theyre-jewish
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #15
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If your blood is German, then even if you were raised by non-Germans since birth, and don't know the German language or culture, and never even met another German, you are still German; but if your blood is non-German, then even if you were adopted and raised since birth by Germans, and believed yourself to be German your entire life, you are still not German, as in, you don't belong to the German nation.
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #16
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Originally Posted by George Witzgall View Post
If your blood is German, then even if you were raised by non-Germans since birth, and don't know the German language or culture, and never even met another German, you are still German; but if your blood is non-German, then even if you were adopted and raised since birth by Germans, and believed yourself to be German your entire life, you are still not German, as in, you don't belong to the German nation.
The old german citizenship laws say you have to have at least a german father to become a german citizen.

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Old May 2nd, 2015 #17
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Bullshit. Everything's been said and done. Blood - define that please. Jews accept people by blood only, yet they're still of every race imaginable.
 
Old May 2nd, 2015 #18
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Originally Posted by volkszorn View Post
The old german citizenship laws say you have to have at least a german father to become a german citizen.
It's important to distinguish between the German Nation (or German People) and the "State of Germany" - ie. currently the BRD. Blood-Germans comprise the German Nation (or German People). However, non-Blood-Germans can still be citizens of the BRD; and not all Blood-Germans are citizens of the BRD.

Not making this distinction almost resulted in the annihilation of the German People.
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #19
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Bullshit. Everything's been said and done. Blood - define that please. Jews accept people by blood only, yet they're still of every race imaginable.
Not sure what you're objecting to. Define blood (ancestry)? Or do you object that blood should be the criterion to define the German People?
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Old May 2nd, 2015 #20
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Basically, if you are a Blood-German, and you have kids with a non-Blood-German, those kids are no longer Blood-Germans (although there are some exceptions, like if the non-Blood-German is Aryan and "converts" to a Blood-German, and this is approved by the German Sanhedrin or whatever the fuck they set up, then your kids are Blood-Germans). (However, notice in whatever case, the kids are citizens of the "State of Germany", assuming you are.)

OTOH, if you are a Blood-German and have kids with a Blood-German, those kids are automatically Blood-Germans (until the day they die). This defines the German Nation or German People.
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