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Old December 21st, 2009 #1
Simon Cresswell
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Angry Kevin MacDonald

Yesterday I listened to Jim Giles interview Dr. Kevin MacDonald. In the interview MacDonald made it clear he is NOT for an EXCLUSIVE Whites ONLY homeland in the USA. He took the position that some blacks can stay in the USA. MacDonald is WRONG! ALL non-Whites MUST be forced out of ALL White ancestral homelands. You can listen to the interview at this link: http://www.rebelarmy.com/
 
Old December 28th, 2009 #2
Alex Linder
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Let's make this a research file. In it we put relevant info about MacDonald, particularly his positions that do not accord with white nationalism.

- praises jews, says he admires them
- wants blacks living in North America
- admirer of Sam Francis, the palecon, whom he had write foreward to one of his books
- said WN were not helping when they posted on "Inside Higher Ed" article defending him when he was under attack by SPLC
- hypocritical criticism of VNN on Jim Giles show for vulgar approach, yet willing to work with VNN for several years

intellectual problems

- dubious/irrelevant thesis that jews pursue a evolutionary group strategy
- focus on "self-delusion" as explanation of jewish loxism/double standards

Last edited by Alex Linder; December 28th, 2009 at 07:36 PM.
 
Old December 29th, 2009 #3
Igor Alexander
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I listened to this interview today. A number of the things MacDonald said, particularly in regards to VNN, struck me as contradictory. For example, he says we should be fighting the enemy and not each other (I agree), and that everyone should pursue his own course, but then spends much of the interview slamming VNN. Well, which is it? Is it "different strokes for different folks," or does he want to blame VNN for holding WN back from popular acceptance?

I disagree with MacDonald on homosexuality being "genetic." I have to wonder how much research he's actually done on the subject because the evidence for a genetic cause to homosexuality is, to be generous, inconclusive at best and very possibly fraudulent. This point is important because if homosexuality is really "genetic" rather than being a perversion, the ramification will be that it's OK to expose kids to this lifestyle and counterculture since there's no way they could possibly be swayed or seduced by it. I suspect MacDonald is siding with the "nature" side of this debate rather than the "nurture" for ideological reasons more than anything. There's at least as much evidence for homosexuality being a choice and/or influenced by the postnatal environment as there is for a prenatal cause.

But what I really don't get is how MacDonald can be belligerent towards people who are hostile to queers and then turn around and say that it's in the queers' best interest to go back in the closet. How exactly does MacDonald intend to send queers back in the closet? By asking nicely? Is he completely oblivious to the fact that queers have a powerful lobby whose primary objective is to keep them out of the closet, while deliberately destroying the traditional (heterosexual) concept of the family MacDonald says he wants to protect? Something doesn't compute.

MacDonald wrote some good, scholarly books about jews, but I'm increasingly starting to think that he should stay out of politics. He's yet another guy who wants to have steak without getting his shirt bloody to get it.

BTW, were some earlier comments removed from this thread? I thought I had posted something earlier about how GLR wanted to deal with blacks.
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Last edited by Igor Alexander; December 29th, 2009 at 05:26 PM.
 
Old December 29th, 2009 #4
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
I listened to this interview today. A number of the things MacDonald said, particularly in regards to VNN, struck me as contradictory. For example, he says we should be fighting the enemy and not each other (I agree),
The problem with this is that it begs the question: who are we? He has a different answer than I do, although I actually don't believe he has ever thought about the matter more than superficially. Most of his type, conservatives who think they're something else, just lump everybody in the same category. That's the wrong way to do it.

Quote:
and that everyone should pursue his own course, but then spends much of the interview slamming VNN.
Yes - one's course is only valid if it does what he says it should do. Our course at VNN is to attack as enemies those who functionally or overtly are our enemies, and that certainly includes conservatives.

Quote:
Well, which is it? Is it "different strokes for different folks," or does he want to blame VNN for holding WN back from popular acceptance?
His own efforts are aimed at one level, the classic mistake noted by GLR. And they will never reach as many as VNN ALREADY has. Not to mention they're not rooted in any strategy, they're just attempts to influence some hazy elite. This "influence the elite" sounds good until you think about what it means. Then it falls apart. The point is not to influence the elite, it's to form a new one.

Quote:
I disagree with MacDonald on homosexuality being "genetic." I have to wonder how much research he's actually done on the subject because the evidence for a genetic cause to homosexuality is, to be generous, inconclusive at best and very possibly fraudulent. This point is important because if homosexuality is really "genetic" rather than being a perversion, the ramification will be that it's OK to expose kids to this lifestyle and counterculture since there's no way they could possibly be swayed or seduced by it. I suspect MacDonald is siding with the "nature" side of this debate rather than the "nurture" for ideological reasons more than anything.
There's at least as much evidence for homosexuality being a choice and/or influenced by the postnatal environment as there is for a prenatal cause.
It is certainly true that homosexuality is a bad thing, and it is undeniable that queers target teenagers. Nothing good can come of having homos in leadership positions, and that is why Greg Johnson is doing whatever he can to prevent the truth about his queerness from coming out.

Quote:
MacDonald wrote some good, scholarly books about jews, but I'm increasingly starting to think that he should stay out of politics. He's yet another guy who wants to have steak without getting his shirt bloody to get it.
Yep. He's a conservative who thinks he's something else. In that, he's no different from most of the others in his circle. It's also partly a generational thing. His type is unable to overcome personal feelings and tastes and do what needs to be done. Indeed, it actively fights against what needs to be done, which is harsh discrimination between friend and enemy toward the end of polarizing the public between Whites and jews. MacDonald and TOQ don't even have anything legitimately described as a strategy - they simply want to "influence" elites. What they need to be forced to face is that 1) their strategy can't work; 2) their strategy is basically a cover story for doing what makes them feel good, and what advances their personal career interests.

Quote:
BTW, were some earlier comments removed from this thread? I thought I had posted something earlier about how GLR wanted to deal with blacks.
Yes. I just want facts and serious discussion on this thread.

Criticism of KM and his non-existent strategy - only. Same on the other threads in this forum.
 
Old December 30th, 2009 #5
TowardWewelsburg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
The problem with this is that it begs the question: who are we?
You make this error frequently, and it detracts from the quality of your writing. Perhaps these career girls can help you:

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com...-question.aspx

http://grammartips.homestead.com/begging.html

http://begthequestion.info/
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Old December 30th, 2009 #6
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TowardWewelsburg View Post
You make this error frequently, and it detracts from the quality of your writing. Perhaps these career girls can help
I used the term correctly. Unlike your spelling of MacDonald.

The arguments of queers and their ass-clown fans like you are all based on the false premise that "we" are agreed on who "we" are. We aren't.
 
Old July 30th, 2011 #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
focus on "self-delusion" as explanation of jewish loxism/double standards
More Alex:

Quote:
After all, they know what they're doing! It is a big lie that I will not allow neocons to circulate on this site that foolish MacDonald has helped them perpetrate that "self-deception" is involved in jewish attacks on our healthy nations. Jews are some of the most detail-oriented, microscopically-observant, mini-movement obsessed people on earth. They not only know what they are doing to us, and know they obtain racial advantage from their tricks, they positively enjoy degrading our culture and torturing our people.
There’s evidence beginning at 32:45 of the movie Defamation. Abe Foxman, thinking he’s talking to a sympathetic jew, admits that he consciously exploits the "perception" of jewish power while condemning that same perception as anti-Semitism. If there are jews prone to real self-deception, they’re probably not the ones MacDonald writes about.


Also posted here.

Last edited by Mike Parker; July 30th, 2011 at 07:51 AM.
 
Old July 30th, 2011 #8
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the Jews money is flowing to take immigration and race away from us and to disarm us of one of our most powerful weapons.
 
Old August 4th, 2011 #9
Alex Linder
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Goyim are to jews as dogs are to Michael Vick.
 
Old August 5th, 2011 #10
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That's a real sad truth, Alex......the MacDonald thing makes me want to move to Long Beach and take his classes......from the vids I've seen he could use some good academic back up the pull some of the dogs of hell off him at times. Anyone closer who can take his classes??

Last edited by Armstrong; August 5th, 2011 at 12:27 AM.
 
Old December 30th, 2009 #11
TowardWewelsburg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Cresswell View Post
Yesterday I listened to Jim Giles interview Dr. Kevin MacDonald. In the interview MacDonald made it clear he is NOT for an EXCLUSIVE Whites ONLY homeland in the USA. He took the position that some blacks can stay in the USA. MacDonald is WRONG! ALL non-Whites MUST be forced out of ALL White ancestral homelands. You can listen to the interview at this link: http://www.rebelarmy.com/
This is not entirely accurate. In this interview, Dr. Macdonald stated that it was a gross mistake to bring the African population here in the first place, but he doesn't see a feasible way to repatriate them at this stage of the game. When pressed by Jim Giles, who asserted that White Americans may get fed up to the point that they demand that every last non-White must go, Macdonald stated that this would be an understandable goal and one he would not oppose.
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Old December 31st, 2009 #12
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Two strands of the MacDonald-TOQ strategy are in conflict. The “top-down” approach seeks to convince whites in the “cultural establishment,” the under-defined “elites,” of the intellectual merits of WN. One means to reach these people is to soften the differences between WN who view Jews as a hostile racial or ethnic group, and paleoconservatives who pretend it's just an ideological disagreement with some Jews. But is mendacious paleoconservatism really more palatable or respectable (or a “gateway”) to elites than truthful WN? Steve Sailer argues:

Quote:
Views on illegal immigration may be the surest status symbol. A blithe attitude toward illegal immigration conveys your self-confidence that you don’t have to worry about competition from Latin American peasants and that you can afford to insulate your children from their children. Moreover, your desire to keep down the wages of nannies, housekeepers, and pool boys by importing more cheap labor advertises that you are a member of the servant-employing upper-middle class.
Quote:
Another class marker of elite discourse is not letting the dreary realities of daily life sully discussions of affairs of state. Both average and elite Americans observe that the children and grandchildren of illegal immigrants are more likely to become disruptive students and to join street gangs, so they both try to find schools for their children far from them. While the typical citizen draws the additional lesson from this that our government should therefore work harder to enforce the laws against illegal immigration, inside the Beltway anyone noticing a connection between the personal and the political is looked down upon as a pathetic loser who needs help from his government.
That’s all consistent with my observations. The highest-achieving people I’ve known are “moderate” Republicans: socially liberal, fiscally conservative is the typical formula. They want no part of paleoconservatism, with its “petty resentments” and whiff of nativism. These are people who cheerfully fund minority scholarships and aspire to be “citizens of the world.” Whether they really believe in any of this is another matter: mine aren’t the only eyes that roll in diversity training. But that goes back to the gap in MacDonald’s understanding:

Quote:
A critical component of the success of the culture of critique is that it achieved control of the most prestigious and influential institutions of the West, and it became a consensus among the elites, Jewish and non-Jewish alike.
MacDonald has a comprehensive explanation of why Jews critiqued the culture, but little of why the whites who controlled our institutions accepted, even welcomed the critique. It’s not surprising that he doesn’t have a clear idea of how to change the minds of the few such influential whites still left.
 
Old December 31st, 2009 #13
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Views on illegal immigration may be the surest status symbol. A blithe attitude toward illegal immigration conveys your self-confidence that you don’t have to worry about competition from Latin American peasants and that you can afford to insulate your children from their children. Moreover, your desire to keep down the wages of nannies, housekeepers, and pool boys by importing more cheap labor advertises that you are a member of the servant-employing upper-middle class.

That's the rich, not the upper-middle class. I don't think most of the "stuff white people like" crowd have servants and pool boys. They do have some of the attitudes he describes. Certainly a large percentage of the people at my college were the way he described. WASPs with money are the ones infected with liberalism. They embrace a cultic, anti-factual view of the world and detest and are quite vicious toward any who don't embrace their insanity. Their views are not precisely the same as the views of the jew-commies, but they mesh with them pretty well.
 
Old December 31st, 2009 #14
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It’s not surprising that he doesn’t have a clear idea of how to change the minds of the few such influential whites still left.

They are few, and trying to influence them is a waste of time. The point is to not to influence the elite but replace them. That is far too great a task for aging academics, homosexuals and mental patients, all of whom have excuses why they can't do anything except tickle keyboards and throw dinner parties. So they content themselves with trying to influence paleoconservatives - people who couldn't even keep their magazines and foundations from being taken over by jews in roughly the blink of an eye.
 
Old December 31st, 2009 #15
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It is precisely what is unthinkable to men like MacDonald which is where progress could be made. MacDonald, if he were part of a young strong movement, would attack Buchanan, not praise him. That such an idea is unthinkable to him, and he publicly divorces from those who advocate it, demonstrates the fundamentally conservative nature of the 'respectable' approach. A white nationalism that has endless excuses for conservatives and no support for its own is essentially acknowledging its own impotence. Influence is not something one directly aims at, rather it is a throwing off of strength reflected in laughter and ridicule.
 
Old December 31st, 2009 #16
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"They embrace a cultic, anti-factual view of the world"

They think, with enough money, facts can be escaped. Escaping facts is a status issue. They don't care that California schools are 48th. The gates to their communities will be breached. The cop that responds will be mexican. That will be their re-introduction to facts.
 
Old April 24th, 2010 #17
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[QUOTE=Simon Cresswell;1085183]Yesterday I listened to Jim Giles interview Dr. Kevin MacDonald. In the interview MacDonald made it clear he is NOT for an EXCLUSIVE Whites ONLY homeland in the USA.


What the hell is his problem and why the f not have our own homeland and perhaps it is not his gd business ? Where is that list ? lol on him.
 
Old December 19th, 2010 #18
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Being Identity I have HUGE problems with MacDonald and his "history"

Can we be realistic please? The guy is a university professor and his position is on the line here.. he has to be VERY careful what he says and he has already taken a lot of heat for speaking truth
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Old January 19th, 2011 #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Cresswell View Post
Yesterday I listened to Jim Giles interview Dr. Kevin MacDonald. In the interview MacDonald made it clear he is NOT for an EXCLUSIVE Whites ONLY homeland in the USA. He took the position that some blacks can stay in the USA. MacDonald is WRONG! ALL non-Whites MUST be forced out of ALL White ancestral homelands. You can listen to the interview at this link: http://www.rebelarmy.com/
You guys, I think that he is essentially a liberal minded professor that happens to take on many of our views. I don't think we should throw out the baby with the bath water. He is realistic, and credible.
 
Old January 20th, 2011 #20
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Non-violence, says MacDonald.

This is his squeamish escape. Nobody wants violence, least of all whites. But he knows as well as the rest, that non-whites would not leave peacefully, in the reversal of this multicultural terror whites live in.

So, he sacrifices the quality of life for whites, and hides behind his Christian title as his rationalization, his universal slave morality to not do what must be done for the bettering of your own, but to do what would be easier on an opposing group at the vital expense of your own.

He believes multiculturalism is maintainable, WITH RACIAL CONSCIOUSNESS!. LOL. You might as well outlaw guns now, chief! You will have the most racial violence the world has ever seen, because it will TRULY be multiculturalism with everyone racially-conscious, rather than this blurring of cultural lines that the authority presently facilitates.

Only a retard would join A3P under this notion. Anyone with a functioning brain looks at the proposed goal and makes a judgment whether or not to pursue. In this case, why bother.

I wish that "Barbara" person who commented on that post had a donate button. That lengthy comment - which I'm sure made MacDonald pissed because it opposes and dwarfs his post and already has a ton of thumbs up - marvelously ripped the "Professor" a new asshole. (About the 14th or so comment down: http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net...ctic/#comments )

Inspiring! I will continue visiting that blog, just in hopes of comments like that, and not the hack shit-ass bloggers.

EDIT: Even more inspiring, is how the majority of the comments are against MacDonald!

Last edited by P.E.; January 20th, 2011 at 09:04 AM.
 
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