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Old April 1st, 2005 #1
Devere
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Default What's the best non-lethal self-defense weapon?

What do you think of stun guns? Anybody experienced with them -- their pros and cons?
 
Old April 1st, 2005 #2
Sean Martin
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Depending on your location. In some places it is illegal to carry them. In others you have to have a CCW to carry them. Check your local laws. Also remember that they are not as effective when used on someone using drugs or a larger person. Another thing is if the person attacking you is wearing a pacemaker (I know it is far fetched) or a similar electronic gadget and you do permanent damage you will be liable.

I know of some wild rednecks here that zapped themselves with the things and it didn’t stop them. I don’t recommend you do this.

If mace is legal in your area I would suggest going with that. It like a stun gun is meant to buy you enough time to get to a safe place.

One of the most lethal weapons (excluding guns and knives ect) is a hard walking stick. I don’t know of anywhere it is illegal to walk with a can. Learn to use it properly and you can be very effective against more than one opponent or an armed opponent. That is what I would suggest to anyone. It is legal and more effective than any of the non-lethal weapons you would carry.

If you are going to be walking at night I would also recommend a Mag-Light that uses D-cell batteries. You can literally break a 2x4 with them and the serrated grips will make good cuts when they strike skin. As far as I know it is not illegial to carry a Mag-light anywhere. Check with your local law first.

I have heard that if you live in Australia it is illegal to carry walking sticks and Mag-lights.
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Old April 1st, 2005 #3
Devere
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Sean -

Would you recommend a cane over, say, a police (or shorter) baton?
 
Old April 1st, 2005 #4
Sean Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devere
Sean -

Would you recommend a cane over, say, a police (or shorter) baton?
Yes for two reasons. Someone with no skill can hook, strike, gouge and trip with a cane. It takes some practice to learn to properly use a police baton, not to mention you have a longer reach with a cane. You can learn highly effective techniques from a Bruce Tegner book written about 30 years on the subject. You can order the book for about $10 and it is simple fully illustrated and easy to learn. Once you read his book you may choose to work your way up to something more complicated and learn a few katas to stay sharp. That will give you the feel and familiarity with the cane.
Stick Fighting: Self-Defense by Bruce Tegner
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...=UTF8&v=glance
Defense Tactics for Law Enforcement: Weaponless Defense and Control and Baton Techniques by Bruce Tegner
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...=UTF8&v=glance
There are better books out there but these are great starters. You can order the books from you local bookstore (they are still in stock our store keeps them on hand) and choose for yourself what fits the best.

The second reason is legal. I don't know of one single law that prevents you from walking with a cane or heavy walking stick (of cane length) however walking around with a police baton could really get you in trouble.

Check your local laws first though. I don’t advocate doing anything illegal.

Forget about the comb and rolled up newspaper and other nonsense which is discussed in the SAS self defense book (the one you can buy at almost any book store) that book is a waste of time. I just finished reading it and it only has about 10% good material. For the $25.00 it costs you could buy almost all of Tegners books.



Edit: I just checked E-bay and Amazon and you can get some of the Tegner books for as little as 99 cents. That is a bargain. Depending on how good you want to get you can get some Karate books on bo staves and short sticks, Kenpo has a very good form on each.
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Old April 2nd, 2005 #5
Antiochus Epiphanes
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the best nonlethal self defense weapon is one that both: a) is there when you need an advantage and b) will not be evidence against you in a bullshit prosecution after the fact.

Maglites are good as Sean suggests for many reasons. They are flashlights so they are useful especially on nightime walks. They have a primary use which is peaceful so they are crappy "evidence" to a prosecutor.

They are heavy but well balanced, so they pack a good wallop. You're not going to be doing siniwali on the street, what you need is a decisive blow to be struck that will finish the encounter and give you enough time for you to make an effective withdrawal.

I would try to avoid wallops to the head though as you could really crack someone's skull and you wouldnt want somebody to unintentionally croak on you thus putting you in danger of prosecution. better they take a short nap while you skedaddle.

FInally, here is why no prosecutor or especially no cop wants to make a big deal out of use of Maglites: they all carry them for this dual purpose as well. My old TKD instructor was a cop and told me a couple stories of arresting unruly schwartzers with help from this device. So they wont want to shit on their own methods by pointing the finger at you.

On the other hand, skip the PR 24 and "batonlike" weapons, as they emanate "weapon." You dont want to look "prepared" for a fight, because the prosecutor will use that to suggest "intent to get into a fight."
 
Old April 2nd, 2005 #6
Devere
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Thanks Sean and AE - sounds like excellent and practical advice. I'll follow through on that advice.
 
Old April 3rd, 2005 #7
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your mind

To be vanquished, but not surrender, that is victory.

:J.Pilsudski
 
Old April 3rd, 2005 #8
Antiochus Epiphanes
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my mind is a lethal weapon, so outside the parameters of the original question!
 
Old April 4th, 2005 #9
Frank Toliver
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Get a heavy leather belt, which you can find at a good flea market, or store which sells leather clothing, and then get a nice heavy belt buckle, that you can secure to the belt tightly. Works like a weighted strap or flail. Also, alway remember to wear some kind of jacket as it can be used as an arm covering against dogs and knife wielding niggers.

Buckles

My favorite though is 2 long socks (one inside the other) with a cue ball, or a 2 rolls of quarters in it. But then again you want non lethal.
 
Old April 4th, 2005 #10
Sean Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Zeke
Get a heavy leather belt, which you can find at a good flea market, or store which sells leather clothing, and then get a nice heavy belt buckle, that you can secure to the belt tightly. Works like a weighted strap or flail. Also, alway remember to wear some kind of jacket as it can be used as an arm covering against dogs and knife wielding niggers.
If you wear it through all your belt loops a problems arises of accessibility. I wear a wide leather work belt with a heavy buckle, but if attacked I couldn’t get the thing loose in time to defend myself.

Quote:
Buckles

My favorite though is 2 long socks (one inside the other) with a cue ball, or a 2 rolls of quarters in it. But then again you want non lethal.
Is that legal? Even here in the sticks where it is pretty much anything goes in terms of carrying weapons that is illegal. I know of a kid that got a lot of time in juvenile detention for using one of those. If you have that it is safe to say you were carrying it as a weapon.

The roll of quarters is a good idea. All of my pants have watch pockets on each side (a small pocked above your front pocket). A person could carry a roll of quarters in his watch pocket and they would be there when you need them and fast also.

Another possibility is the fighting ring that G Gordon Liddy wrote about. They are usually biker rings and they are in the shape of a wolf, eagle, or some have spikes. You can really knock the daylights out of someone twice your size with one.

I wear a class ring that comes to a tip and has my town letter on it, it is really sharp classic class rings are no good. On my left hand I used to wear a swastika-fighting ring but then realized that using it would definitely land me in jail. So now I wear an eagle or bat ring. I had one with spikes and the thing broke the first time I used it. Here at the flea markets you can buy eagle-fighting rings for about $2.00 each.

Make sure the ring is snug and not loose but not to tight either. Again you can slip them in your watch pocket and put them on really fast if you don’t want to wear them. However if you are alone I don’t see why you wouldn’t wear them anyway.


Any non-lethal weapon must have a dual purpose so you can prove you simply used whatever you had on hand to defend yourself.
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Old April 5th, 2005 #11
einzelwesen...
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Quote:
I have heard that if you live in Australia it is illegal to carry walking sticks and Mag-lights.
Mags and walking sticks are kind of funny categories. That is, they are legal to carry even though they make good weapons- but only given certain circumstances.

I've been picked up on the street with a walking-stick (well, it's a bit more than a walking stick, heh heh heh), and not been booked, nor had the stick confiscated. It helps that I have a completely clean criminal record, I guess, along with the fact that I was limping and using the walking stick to walk with.

If the police think you NEED it, there's no way they'll book you for carrying one, nor is there much of a chance they'll confiscate it.

If you're swinging it around like Alexander deLarge, they'll confiscate it, and more than likely book you for possession of an offensive weapon. Which will only end up being a small fine + confiscation, unless you're a multiple offender, in which case you might end up with some community service. (All this assumes you haven't got any other offences, especially assault or GBH or something.)

As for Mag-lites... if you don't have a good reason for having one, and you smash someone's head in with it (bearing in mind the 'equal and necessary force' part of the Police Act), you're gonna go to jail, more or less.

But if you're a night-patrolman, your work grants you the right to carry one (THIS is an IMPORTANT clause), and you bludgeon someone with it that tries to stab you with a knife, more than likely you'll get off.

The police over here have an awful lot of discretionary power. Knowing what guide-lines the police have for exercising this discretionary power, as outlined in the Police Act, is the most relevant guide to what is legal to carry and what is not.

And the long and short of it is: If you have a legitimate excuse for carrying something that can be used as a weapon (a walking stick or Mag-lite or whatever), the cops will not punish you for it.

Say, you've got a bad leg or knee, and need aid in walking. Or if you're a night patrol-man and need a Mag-lite.

But if you've got a list of assaults on your record, no job, and you're carrying around a big Mag-lite on your belt, the police will deem you to possess it for illegal purposes, and will punish you for possessing it.
 
Old April 5th, 2005 #12
Devere
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They open the floodgates letting the violent anti-white animals into our homelands, unleashing them upon us, our women, and our children -- and force us to intermingle with them. The police and courts refuse to help us by jailing and electrocuting these violent animals when they do their thang. If you carry even a stick (!) or a flashlight (!) or a sock (!) or a belt (!) to protect yourself from these violent animals and do so, YOU get put in jail.

Things have gone far against us, indeed.

How about in America? Surely we can carry and use sticks and flashlights and socks and belts here, true? (We can carry and use guns, sort of.)
 
Old April 8th, 2005 #13
Sean Martin
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Fighting rings
http://www.donrearic.com/engage.html

This article has the account I posted about the fighting rings.

The Beginner's Guide to Using the Cane
http://www.donrearic.com/cane1.html



These are the two books I mentioned earlier by Tegner.

I wasn’t aware of this site until a couple minutes ago thanks to Steve B. The author of the site and I must have either had a lot of the same type of training or very similar interests.

Everything can be found here.

http://www.donrearic.com/main.html


A lot of the improvised weapons he mentions are illegal so only carry something that you can prove to have a dual purpose.
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Old April 8th, 2005 #14
einzelwesen...
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One thing you've REALLY gotta watch with fighting rings, is that they've got solid backs. That is, that no part of the inside of the ring is hollowed out. Punching someone with a ring with a hollow bit facing into your fist can really rip the arse out of your knuckle.
 
Old April 8th, 2005 #15
Steve B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin

I wasn’t aware of this site until a couple minutes ago thanks to Steve B. The author of the site and I must have either had a lot of the same type of training or very similar interests.

Everything can be found here.

http://www.donrearic.com/main.html


A lot of the improvised weapons he mentions are illegal so only carry something that you can prove to have a dual purpose.
Yep, Donrearic has a good essay on the use of a Multi-Tool as a weapon.




http://www.donrearic.com/fightingmultitool.html
 
Old April 9th, 2005 #16
Paul
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Always keep a golfing putter in your car or truck. It has a hand grip on one end and a metal weight on the other end. And it is never illegal to have a golf club in your car or truck. If you have to use it in a fight, always keep your arm raised above your head (cocked). And if you do come down with a strike, immediately raise your hand again to prepare for another strike. You can also use it for a cane and pretend you have a limp.
 
Old April 9th, 2005 #17
Antiochus Epiphanes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devere
What do you think of stun guns? Anybody experienced with them -- their pros and cons?
Stun guns arent Tasers. A taser makes a potent punch. A stun gun tends to zap out a weak little arc. I zapped myself with a 50k or 70k or whatever stun gun once and it felt like somebody shoving a fat needle into my arm. Not a pleasant feeling, but if it happened in a scuffle I probably wouldnt have even felt it, and if I did it just would have fueled the fire.

That was about ten years ago. I dont know if the technology has improved since.
 
Old April 10th, 2005 #18
Ray_Air...
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Default Fox Labs Pepper Spray

I recommend Fox Labs pepper spray, sold here- http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com . I prefer the 2oz medium fog with the cop top. This stuff is mean. I tried it on myself. Hey, if I am going to rely on something in violent confrontation I want to know it works! I suggest you do the same.
 
Old April 13th, 2005 #19
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VIDEO of 4 shot cell phone gun shooting all four bullets. Made in Pakistan?
http://www.mobidirect.com/cellgun.mpg
 
Old April 18th, 2005 #20
Antiochus Epiphanes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain
VIDEO of 4 shot cell phone gun shooting all four bullets. Made in Pakistan?
http://www.mobidirect.com/cellgun.mpg
that would DEFINITELY get classified as an AOW!
 
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