#1 Infighting (sic - fighting) Thread

[M.N. Dalvez]

It's amazing how every time Griffin posts some piece of Movement dirty laundry at his website, it immediately gets picked up by the SPLC, isn't it?

... no, not really. At best, he's a useful idiot for them; at worst, he's actively working with them.

For someone who has nothing to do with WN, and wants nothing to do with WN, he sure concerns himself with it a lot.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Joe_Smith

Alex using Golden Dawn as an example for how keep it legal doesn't work is incorrect.

You're incorrect because I haven't used it that way.

My point is that the people advocating "keeping it legal" won't address the fact that whether you keep it legal or not, you get treated the same way.

Not a single KIL type acknowledges this because it threatens their foundational assumption that the game isn't rigged. It would threaten their mental fake-world to admit this and adjust accordingly. So they ignore it.

Golden Dawn's leadership is falsely imprisoned, but there has been no trial yet and they can only hold them legally for another 5 months (I have a feeling that they will just let them go). The government continues putting their trial off because actual evidence does not exist, and Jewish oligarchs instructing the Greek government have asserted that they better have hard evidence at the trial, because if Greeks see a kangaroo court the government will lose whatever little credibility it has left.

You're speculating the govt won't just keep holding them. Obviously the law means little if they can be arrested for no serious reason, on purely trumped up charges, yet you're relying on that same law to free them in five more months. That's not a reasonable assumption given what we've seen.

By keeping it legal, Golden Dawn gives the government nothing, and that is why the government keeps pushing off the trial. That's why the government has aimed to strategically isolate the leadership (including the lesser leadership) rather than outright banning the party, their hopes is that if they do that the party will begin making mistakes and lose discipline. What they're doing is sending their Left-wing attack dogs to provoke Golden Dawn members, hoping to get a violent reaction they can use at the trial. That's what the murder of Giorgos and Manolis, less than a month after taking the MP's in, was all about.

Those would be nice, but clearly the main intention of the jews/shabbes goys like Samaras is simply to take the wind out of the sails. This has apparently been achieved. How much can a party grow when all its leaders are in jail, and the population is told daily that even voting for them is very likely a crime in itself?

The time lost won't be got back. I'm assuming every day you have more Soros-funded Pakis etc coming into the country.

Time is not on Golden Dawn's side. If the leaders are released, they're hardly reentering at the point they exited. And there's no reason at all to think they'll be released. After all, who's clamoring for their release? Not the media. The media support keeping them in jail.

What Golden Dawn advocates is what Hitler did: Bend the rules, don't break them . Do everything by the little book, but stretch the law to the furthest possible limits.

That's not what Hitler said at all. He said if the state follows the rules, he will. But the survival of the (white) or (German) people is not up for vote. If the state doesn't follow the rules, then he won't. Putsches were never off the table, and he was considering one right up until he was appointed.

[Hadding]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

If you attack the conservatives, you make them get off the fence. Either they become racial radicals, or they admit/expose themselves as weaklings. The point is to get the public to polarize.

I wonder where you got the idea that this was a way to do things. The left since the late 1930s has used exactly the opposite approach. "No enemies on the left." I guess they learned from their defeat in Germany that quarrels between extremists and moderates in their cause made them weak.

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

Also, we get whatever benefits the modest education they provide produces whether we support them or not.

You don't have to support Jared Taylor or Pat Buchanan, but I told you, throwing rocks at the kindergarten teacher is not a way to make the kindergarten students like you. You have a better chance to reach them by playing nice.

[Jimmy Marr]

Originally Posted by Hadding

... throwing rocks at the kindergarten teacher is not a way to make the kindergarten students like you.

True enough. We're eventually going to need to slap her around a little bit.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Hadding

I am not asking you to associate or endorse anything. I am explaining to you that attacking Taylor serves no purpose. It's even counterproductive.

Wrong. Reasons for attacking Taylor are many, have been explained, you fail to address them. Suggesting you have no counter-argument save assertion, which isn't an argument.

I suppose that, if upon dropping discussion of race, Taylor adopted some other useful focus, like Holocaust Revisionism, and decided like many other revisionists that he would have a broader appeal by not also discussing race, then Dr. Pierce would consider that he was doing something useful.

Race and HR are both tied to jews. The HR would deserve scorn if they attempted to do with HR what Taylor tries to do with race - separate it from the jewish 'production values' behind it. HR can't be separated from jews and politics.

Most Holohoax-Revisionists don't talk about race at all, and many of them try to take a conciliatory attitude toward Jews as a group. Zundel, for example.

I am sure that Dr. Pierce had a very positive view of Ernst Zundel. Dr. Pierce did not say, like Linder toward Taylor: that son of a bitch Zundel is trying to mislead people about race and the Jews! He accepted the very great positive thing that Zundel had to offer for what it was worth.

That's a ridiculous parallel.

Have you watched Taylor's presentation about demographic change from 1996? It's very good. The only place where I noticed that he said something a bit misleading was when he said that "we" (people in the USA) originated multiculturalism and exported it to Europe, but since he put no emphasis on that "we," I think it would not be hard to educate the viewer further, as to what that "we" really means.

Why should someone need further education? Why do you make excuses for this liar's syncopating the natural stress? Because, which again you ignore, he does blame people for immigration woes - Kennedy liberals specifically and whites generally. Taylor continually attributes to whites generally what is in fact due to jews specifically. Then he misrepresents his action as taking no position on jews. This is dishonest. Only you know why you defend his endless, tiresome, obvious intellectual dishonesty. You who think yourself the truth incarnate.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Hadding

I just don't see anything concrete that supports your desire to blame Taylor for the sins of Greggy. I don't see Taylor ever saying that we must support the State of Israel, or that nobody should question the Holohoax. When I posted those instances of Greggy paraphrasing Golda Meir, your reaction was, Aha! Jared Taylor must be behind this! But I found no instance of Taylor ever saying anything like that.

Taylor is mostly fact-based and objective, unless you drag him into a discussion about something that he wants to avoid, then, if he has to bullshit his way out of it, he adopts a tone of befuddled naiveté, not the hysterical "indignation" and hyperventilation that is typical of Greggy.

I see some tendency in you to make excuses for Greggy -- perhaps because of his former association with VNN -- and blaming Taylor for what Greggy does seems to be exactly that.

I have no inclination to make any excuses for that faggot.

Do you think that Taylor's forum at AmRen is edited against his will? That's what your remarks suggest.

If his supporters, including la greggy, push a line, that's because he approves it.

[Hadding]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

Wrong. Reasons for attacking Taylor are many, have been explained, you fail to address them.

I have addressed your complaints a number of times by pointing out that Taylor presents valuable education about the Black and Brown problems with just occasional fudging (in his discourse) as needed to avoid broaching the Jewish Question, but you don't acknowledge that his educational endeavor is worth anything. You fail to take into account that Taylor is talking to conservatives, in other words beginning-level racists (but a very large number of them) who still have a lot to learn. Racial kindergarten, I call it, but you only notice that they aren't up to your grade-level yet. To make a fair assessment of whether Taylor is moving things in a positive direction you have to take into account the audience that he is addressing, and what their starting point is, and whether what Taylor teaches them is more than they would otherwise have known, and whether the facts and arguments that he gives them are better than the facts and arguments with which they would otherwise have been armed, and whether what he says to them stiffens their will to resist. Realistically, for the vast majority of these conservatives, the alternatives are not Jared Taylor or Alex Linder, but more like Jared Taylor or Rush Limbaugh.

It doesn't seem to occur to you either that accurate information about the Black and Brown problems is also implicitly damaging to Jews, since Jews conspicuously promote those problems -- and also attack Jared Taylor for debunking their propaganda! A recent example was a certain SUSSMAN. The fact that a few Jews attend AmRen conferences to take Taylor's side amounts to damage-control for Jewry. Where there's damage-control, damage is being done.

And finally -- something that I have pointed out many times -- Taylor is not actively discouraging anybody from looking into the Jewish Question or Holocaust Revisionism. In fact his known association with Professor MacDonald is bound to pique the interest of some AmRen subscribers to look into MacDonald's work.

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

Why should someone need further education?

And that question right there shows your blindspot.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Hadding

Let's use words with their correct meanings. Greggy is the faggot, not Taylor.

Greggy is a penis-fag. Taylor is a pen-fag.

'Had we world enough and time
This coyness, lady, were no crime'

It's late in the fucking day. If you don't diagnose jews, YOU'RE A FAG.

Johnson is actually less of a fag than Taylor.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Joe_Smith

Jared Taylor banning an iconic and brilliant ethnic nationalist like David Duke to make room for more Jew speakers is like a woman rejecting John Stamos for Donald Trump. It's not that there's anything wrong with John Stamos or David Duke, it's that Jared Taylor and the broad just love money more.

Don't even have to like Duke to see that if you side with a fucking jew against Duke, who made more progress in the System these pookers all seem to love, then just whose side are you on?

The sad thing is people still can't figure it out.

JARED TAYLOR WORKS QUITE OPENLY FOR THE JEWS.

It's not even a false front. WN who support JT aren't even smart enough to REQUIRE fooling.

Christ, they're qualified to watch Fox News.

[Alex Linder]

Holocaust-Revisionism is an undertaking that receives more support if it is not explicitly combined with any particular political agenda, and I have not seen anyone challenge the propriety of that. I think that this compartmentalization is analogous to what Taylor is trying to do with AmRen.

In practical terms it is not possible to separate 'the holocaust' from the jewish agenda that created and promotes the concept. It has nothing directly to do with race or politics, altho it's obvious that people disposed to believe jews would be less interested in the strict factual accountancy revisionists are known for. Of course, purely logically or theoretically, the holocaust could be treated as claims, and subjected to tests as such. Again, in reality, that's not possible, since you literally won't be allowed to do that, by law or even by physical presence at the relevant camp sites.

You are in the same boat with Linder. You don't understand how Taylor could possibly be doing any good, since he isn't saying anything that YOU don't already know. Consequently the half-empty glass, the fact that Taylor doesn't name the Jew, looks like an unmixed negative to you.

So in your view there's this body of whites out there that doesn't grasp that blacks are dumb and violent. And some fraction of them discover that truth thru the fine work of Jared Taylor? Wouldn't you think Pierce was darned weird if he spent 52 weeks a year writing ADVs on the negro violence problem? You'd be like we are - who the hell doesn't know blacks are violent and stupid? Everyone knows that. There is literally not a single adult white who has not heard dozens upon dozens of nigger jokes, all of which contain (in more effective form) the basic and obvious truths we are supposed to credit fake-jeweler Jared with dispensing.

Jared Taylor makes people aware that it is a looming catastrophe and, for the people who already suspected that it was, he supplies factual ammunition that they can use in discussions.

The average white American is well aware of this looming catastrophe, and he is against opening the borders. What he does not know is what jared taylor will not only NOT tell him but HIDE from him - that it was JEWS who opened the borders. Jews alone. Jared's very own good buddy MacDonald proved it.

You haven't thought hard enough on that last sentence to grasp what's going on here. You're simply defending Taylor because he was polite to you.

[Alex Linder]

Conservatives don't discuss racial reality. The problems we face are not loss of morals or "family values", our problems are genetic. As in far too much undesirable genetic material is entering our population, diluting then usurping the society built by whites. That is what has changed America.

Get in shape. Clean white shirt. ( non-logo T-shirt, Oxford or Polo. Just do you, man) Black slacks. Ironed. No tennis shoes. No flip-flops. White volant raven outlined in black against a field of red.

No reason we can't have both.

Whites are basically a Lawrence Welk type race. Jews are going to force the entire family, from baby to great-grandma, to sit in the family room and listen to Howard Stern talking about masturbating.

That will loosen us up, change our thoughts and behavior in jew-useful ways. This is what they have done, and we'd have to say it has worked pretty well for them. Nazism was in large part a movement to identify the jews behind that social rot, and to do something about it. Anglo-American pussies called conservatives won't do anything about it. They won't fight the jew; they won't even identify the jew. But they'll attack you as a hater and anti-semite if you do. They will indeed whine about the symptoms of moral rot, but only on the surface, and purely in order to make money through direct mail.

There is no hope in conservatism, and association with its grinning trimmers should be shudderingly avoided by racialists.

What is it about Anglo culture that it simply cannot produce serious men?

I followed Pierce because he was serious. He did not change his views to fit the fashions of the times, nor to curry favor with the ruling jews, as the conservatives I had previously respected did. It is no accident that Pierce had to look outside the Anglosphere to find a group as serious as he was.

[Crowe]

Originally Posted by Hadding

You're not just misinformed. You're a dummy.

Hitler had a majority in the Reichstag or he couldn't have become chancellor. That majority consisted of a coalition of the NSDAP with a couple of smaller parties.

Like I said, you keep moving the goal post. If you can't make a coherent point without continuing to shift the discussion, then you're the dummy. I'm not looking to turn this topic into a flame war Hadding, so we can both agree to drop the personal attacks and leave it at that.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Nationa...rkers%27_Party

From the above source (Metapedia is a good alternative to wikipedia):

At the July 1932 Reichstag election the party made another leap forward, polling 37.4 percent and becoming the largest party in the Reichstag by a wide margin. Furthermore, the Party and the KPD between them won 52 percent of the vote and a majority of seats. Since both parties opposed the established political system and neither would join or support any ministry, this made the formation of a majority government impossible. The result was weak ministries governing by decree. Under Stalin’s directives, the KPD maintained its policy of treating the SPD as the main enemy, calling them "social fascists", thereby splintering opposition to the NSDAP. Later, both the SPD and the KPD accused each other of having facilitated Hitler’s rise to power by their unwillingness to compromise.

So while it is true that Hitler had majority support between 2 parties, the NSDAP stand alone still didn't have a majority on their own. And the later was the point I was making.

I have described a way, through the electoral process, that a political coalition could be formed with the agenda of keeping the situation from getting worse: "A Party of Plutocrats Has No Future." What I explain is that the White vote is divided because the Republicans insist on economic policies that are bad for many Whites. If the Republican Party moved leftward on economics alone, while adopting genuinely conservative positions on immigration etc., it could get nearly all of the White vote and have a strong majority.

The problem with any political movement always comes down to one major issue; a very powerful jewish controlled media. No viable political solution can be provided without addressing how to overcome that obstacle. The best example would be to study what the GD in Greece did. They managed near 20% approval rating at certain points simply with ground campaigns, doing selfless acts of kindness, etc. If someone sees the GD out in the streets handing out food to poor elderly Greek citizens, then they're likely to not believe a damn word the media says on TV to slander them. I think most here would agree that the GD is one of the most successful Nationalist movements in recent times. It would be good to try and mimic them in some ways, and I'm fully aware that the political environment in Greece compared to the USA are apples and oranges, but some of their strategies I believe could work anywhere. And the GD did it without kissing any jewish ass.

Although that's a viable plan, I can't know whether the USA is going to be turned around by legal or illegal means. If it isn't done through electoral politics according to the plan that I described then the most likely alternative is a military coup at some point, maybe after there is no longer a White majority. What is certain is that revolt by armed civilians has no chance.

For the time being, we need to take advantage of every situation we can to gain support in any way we can. The worse the economy is, and the more uncomfortable White people feel, the better it is for the movement.

The simple action of Obama getting elected has boosted the numbers of the movement. Its hard to estimate how much, but I'd say its definitely more than if John McCain, or Mitt Romney got elected.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Armor

I said something inexact in a comment. I said that respectable anti-replacement nationalists frown upon the use of words like 'kike' and 'nigger'. But I was wrong to associate that with Ransdell. I don't think he's used any bad language in his campaign for Senate. Actually, he's been denounced by the likes of Ramzpaul simply for being straightforward about the Jewish problem, for sometimes using an impetuous style of speech, and for using slogans like: With Jews, we lose.

In his video against Ransdell, Ramzpaul said the government pays people to say things like Ransdell says and give the nationalists a bad image. That is complete rubbish. If Ransdell was allowed to have half an hour on TV every night, what would happen is that he would soon win people over to the White cause. That is why the Jews have been trying to silence him.

Notice how the well dressed, non-slur-using folks like Paul Ramsey are willing to atom-bomb other men's reputations. He wouldn't be allowed to do that here, that kind of chickenshit insinuation.

[Robbie Key]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

What is it about Anglo culture that it simply cannot produce serious men?

I followed Pierce because he was serious. He did not change his views to fit the fashions of the times, nor to curry favor with the ruling jews, as the conservatives I had previously respected did. It is no accident that Pierce had to look outside the Anglosphere to find a group as serious as he was.

What are you alluding to here? I remember from one of his broadcasts, that he visited Germany and the NPD. Only had good to say about them.

Personally I despise the anglo's for their treachery during WW2. Fucking Churchill is ready to destroy Europe and the White race, essentially, just to get his debt paid by the jews. Disgusting. Add to that, the culture of America which seems very Anglo-dominated. The idiots in the audience of the Oprah Show, or Dr Phil is everything that is wrong with british culture.

Would never happen in Germanic countries, that kind of unashamed, open idolatry of mediocre people. Money is useful; nothing to be worshipped of.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Vance Stubbs

Serious question: would it be better to have the support of 10% of the White population, which itself comprises 50% of America's population, or would it be better to have the support of 50% of the White population, which itself comprises 10% of America's population?

Look at the black population - about 13%. But any black criminal who attacks a white can count on the support of an absolute majority of blacks, no matter how heinous and unprovoked his crime. See O.J.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Robbie Key

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/201...omment-2829883

See, this was the entire point of posting that picture of Griffin having a nice meal with some fat guys and a kid. I thought it perfectly captured the spirit of what Griffin is doing.

Griffin actually believes he's into serious, radical politics right now. He isn't.

Per that picture:

The revolution will be appetized.

[N.B. Forrest]

The left since the late 1930s has used exactly the opposite approach. "No enemies on the left."

Preach that to the Taylors & the Buchanans: they both slipped the skids under David Duke in favor of jews.

They get the treatment they dish dish out.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Robbie Key

You'd know better than me, I guess.

I just don't really see the point in discussing who "gives a shit" about Griffin.

The point is to use what we can where we find it - friend, enemy, fake friend.

Infighting is not bad, provided it be carried on by rules. Is pilpul bad for jews? No. It teaches them to think on their feet, and to learn how to argue.

There is no serious leadership in the USA at this time - for whites who value race above all else. So there's work to do. Inarguing is that work. Not all of it, but its starting point.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Donnie in Ohio

I get the exact opposite impression. Linder believes Griffin is unstable. Least he used to.

He's slippery. His intellect goes well beyond his character, yet I don't believe he's so much self serving in the ordinary lawyerly or conman way, but in that he's basically a creature that takes on the coloration of stronger personalities and characters - and has the verbal ability to conceal that. Thus, right now, he is repeating the CCC/LOS doctrine. But he doesn't believe it any more or less than what he glibly advocated in earlier incarnations.

Even against his intentions, bringing this stuff up helped all boats, I'd say. I love going at it, purely as sport, even if it weren't real politics - which it is. But notice, I always stay within MY STATED BOUNDS (see my essay on infighting). That way I retain my self-respect, and the respect of anyone who respects people who think/act like that. Kevin Strom tried to atom bomb my reputation - I didn't fire back with same. Time took care of things. It usually does.

All I am saying is that with someone fundamentally unmoored as I take Griffin's character, it is easy to see him drifting over to the enemy and making the same kind of case he is now against WN except he's come to jesus/left and is now recanting racialism and southern nationalism. He is not someone I would associate with, for that reason alone. That said, I'm all for southern secession, and I help by using #secede.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Donnie in Ohio

Tell Bill White legality is irrelevant. In another decade or so, I mean. We're not in a shooting revolution in North America, man. We're still in the WAKE THE FUCK UP stage. My opinion only, which is just that, an opinion.

Don't know of any.

I don't think such an organization currently exists. Without the sympathy if not outright support of a significant percentage the white "civilian" population, any illegal activity is premature at best, outright suicidal at worst.

That might be unpopular to say, but I believe it's true.

I think you're right, although it's interesting to watch the System try to find Eric Frein.