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November 21st, 2007 | #61 | |
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What about .380/9mmkurz? Why is 9mm worse than .38? You said look it up but most gun sites do not have reliable and truthful information. Also if the magazine spring is compressed for long periods of time(magazine full for a long time) will it weaken and fail.
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November 21st, 2007 | #62 |
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9x19mm is not "worse than .38". In it's best loadings it ranks alongside the better .40 and .45s.
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November 21st, 2007 | #63 | |
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You cant always tell by the diameter of the projectile, for instance .223 is what is used in ar15/m16 but you know it is superior to a .25 which has a larger diameter bullet.
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November 21st, 2007 | #64 | |
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One extreme case was my fathers 1911, he lost a magazine...found it in a closet with some ammo...the spring had been compressed for at least 20 years. The magazine and the ammo worked fine. TwistedCross nailed the question about ammo, it is about powder...how much velocity a projectile can acheive with the amount of propellant (gunpowder). The 9mm has a smaller case..it can only hold so much powder, and the bullet sizes are limited. A .38 can hold more powder and handle a heavier bullet. Same with the .32 and .25...small cases = small amount of powder. They work and work well. but if you have a choice and can handle the recoil of a heavier round I would go for it. All that being said...I have on occasion carried a "pocket .25" (small colt), usually in the summertime. I practice with it regularly and use hollowpoints....is it my first choice? NO but it serves its purpose. |
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November 21st, 2007 | #65 |
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I made a mistake in my previous question,
Let me repeat it. Why are .25 and .32 worse than .22lr? What about .380/9mmkurz?
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November 22nd, 2007 | #66 | |
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The fact is a lot of people get killed with very small caliber weapons. A 25 auto while underpowered will likely be on your person. Also a lot of kwaps carry a 380 for a backup gun. I think the 380 is the most useless caliber ever made but it is popular with a lot of people. There is a huge misconception about carry guns. The most important thing is you have a gun on your person. Unless you are entering drug covens or expecting swat to nail you on the street any caliber gun will stop any assault you encounter. People think you need a gun that will be able to reach out 50-100 feet. The fact is if the attacker is more than 5-10 feet from you then you will go to prison. If you can’t hit someone at 5-10 feet with a small caliber or a snub nose weapon then you don’t need a gun in the first place. Also when it comes to penetration, I took a 25-auto pocket pistol out once and shot a 2x4 at 21 feet. Not only did I hit the 2x4 but every round fully penetrated it. If you can hit a 2x4 you can hit a person. If the round will penetrate a 2x4 it will penetrate a person as well.
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November 22nd, 2007 | #67 | |
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What about the .32? It is bigger and has more penetration than both the .22 and .25 right? Why is the .380 the most useless round? What round should be used instead to do its purpose better?
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November 22nd, 2007 | #68 | ||
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Also on both guns we left the magazines fully loaded and they never failed. Dad still has his 25 auto and the magazine is still fully loaded and it functions flawlessly. I miss the days of $30 nickel plated 25 auto’s. One of the most important things is availability. You want a cartridge that can be easily found. The top on the list of handgun cartridges is 22lr, 38sp, 9mm & 40 S&W. There may be plenty of others but they will not have the Varity and are not as popular. One of my favorite rounds is the 44spl and I have to drive 60 miles to find a place that stocks it. Here is a large picture of the 380-32 acp. Click the link. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...380-32_ACP.jpg Here you can compare size on handgun rounds. Common handgun cartridges. Left to right: 3 inch 12 ga magnum shotgun shell (for comparison), size "AA" battery (for comparison), .454 Casull, .45 Winchester Magnum, .44 Remington Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .45 ACP, .38 Super, 9 mm Luger, .32 ACP, .22 LR http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-handgun-cartridges
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November 22nd, 2007 | #69 | |
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It has a table of almost every calibre. The table has a lot of information, which includes the impact energy delivered by each calibre. In revolvers .44 magnum is the ultimate calibre, but far too large for a concealed carry, so .38 special is a satisfactory compromise. .25 and .32 are next to useless. Too small, too light, too slow. 9mm has only half the stopping power of .45 ACP. This is why .45 ACP will go through the front plate of a nigger's skull and kill it with 100% reliability, but 9mm does not have that level of reliability. 9mm will deliver an instant kill only if it strikes heart or brain, unlike .45 ACP which will deliver an instant kill with any torso hit within 25 metres of the muzzle. Shoot someone with 9mm and the bastard will probably be able to return fire and kill you, even if he is bleeding to death from a lung hit. .223, for example, delivers only one third of the impact energy to the target that 7.62x51mm provides, which is one of the reasons why the M16/AR15 are fishtank ornaments or mouse guns. I speak from the perspective of a former soldier who has had to fire a weapon in anger. One of the worst decisions the US military made was to scrap the M14 and adopt the M16 mouse gun. Another really bad decision was to switch from .45 ACP to 9mm in pistols. The US military now has rifle and pistol calibres that are not man killers. This makes a grunt's life really difficult and unnecessarily dangerous. When a grunt shoots someone he wants to kill the bastard instantly. To do anything else risks the grunt's life because the target may be functional enough to return fire. |
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November 23rd, 2007 | #70 | |||||||||
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I have been reading your posts and I must say your knowledge of guns is straight out of a gun magazine and impeccably terrible. Aren’t guns banned in Australia?
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The 45 acp isn’t famous for it’s penetration it is famous for it’s knockdown power meaning it puts a lot of energy into a large space on the target. It is huge and bulky. I have seen you sing the praises of carrying a 45 auto but who does? Even the gun writers that praise it don’t carry it. Cops and feds who can carry a gun in the open don’t carry 45 auto’s for a reason. They are heavy, they can only hold 8+1 rounds, they don’t have penetration, they are not as accurate as newer calibers and they are just not as effective as modern calibers. The 40 S&W will do everything a 45 acp will do and more. Quote:
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There is a reason people went to the 223. It delivers more firepower in short distances where most battles take place. The 7.62 is a great caliber if you are in a hidden place playing the sniper roll but to carry one and face the enemy it is not the best idea which is why those large calibers were abandoned by soldiers. Just so you know soldiers weren’t forced to take these weapons they begged the military for something better. After they got overrun in Korea while carrying high caliber guns because they couldn’t lay the proper amount of ammo down they asked for something that could put more rounds in more targets. Quote:
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Also what is the deal with you love for these heavy guns? Who is going carry a 45ACP 1911 around on a hot day? You can’t conceal one easily, they are heavy after a couple hours and everyone I know who has tried to carry one takes it off the first chance they get. Also Bob Mundon took a 38sp a snub nose and hit a 10-inch balloon at 200 yards. Sure he is extremely above average but if he can make a head shot with a factory gun and ammo at 600 feet surely the average person could do the same at 50 feet. The 38sp or 9mm with the right ammo will penetrate anything you need in a pistol situation. Sure if you have a body armor clad sniper with a 300 Win Mag at 1,000 yards shooting at you any pistol caliber won’t help. But I guarantee a 9mm won’t bounce off anyone’s skull anytime soon.
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November 23rd, 2007 | #71 |
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the M16 is a pray and spray weapon, the M14 is a reach out and touch and is very accruate. It's select fire function was pretty useless because firing the weapon on full auto make it impossible to control. it's a far better sniper gun or a survival gun that can penetrate hiding places than it is when confronting SWAT teams and the like.
In fact, I believe I read once where they shipped in conversion kits to keep the M14 from firing in full auto. |
November 23rd, 2007 | #72 | ||
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All guns are pray and spray in the hands of unqualified users. The 223 is an accurate round up to several hundred yards. If a person can’t shoot a larger caliber won’t make a difference.
Here is an example. I can acquire targets with a better group with a $50 Marlin 22 than some people I know (who have been shooting for decades) can with a 30-06. I know how to make a gun accurate and customize it for my own use. What is the point of putting a large bullet downrange in the dirt? Quote:
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It is unlikely you will engage targets over a couple hundred yards unless you are a sniper waiting for days to hit a certain person. If you are under fire the 223 is a much better weapon as you can hit your target accurately (if you can shoot) and you can lay down enough firepower to engage multiple targets. It has little recoil so firing several times isn’t a problem. Another reason the M-14 isn’t a good survival gun is because it is easily mucked up in mud, dirt and heavy dust. I have seen people get them muddy and they have failed. I have seen even on the torture test where they dropped on in mud and it failed. The M-16 has a flap that protects the internal parts from mud and dust. The AK well we all know how it performs in all sorts of situations. What is the deal with people and these huge guns? If you want to shoot someone from a long distance get a 300 Win Mag or a 7mm magnum. Then you can engage targets at over a thousand yards. How about just getting a 50 cal and nail people at 3,000 yards. There is a reason people don’t do this. It is not practical. The people you idolize in your avatar carry AK-47’s for a reason. They are durable and reasonably accurate at short ranges.
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November 23rd, 2007 | #73 | ||
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Note: here in PA open carry is legal...I open carry about 1/2 the time. The best bullet/gun debate is never ending and pretty pointless....Whatever gun you decide to carry, make sure it works...make sure it is reliable, make sure you have good quality ammo...and make DAMN sure you shoot and become proficient at it. |
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November 23rd, 2007 | #74 |
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Yes the M16 is an accurate gun but the theory behind it's adoption was that patrol teams would make contact at relatively close range and the more bullets that were fired, the more likely casualities would result. This is why the ammo is so light, so they they can carry so much of it, as it would be needed when spraying and praying.
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November 23rd, 2007 | #75 | |
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45+stopping power+subsonic velocities=one excellent weapon. |
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November 23rd, 2007 | #76 |
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the .45 with a good silencer should the the weapon of choice for the discriminating White Nationalist Revolutionary
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November 23rd, 2007 | #77 |
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Why are we even talking about M-14’s in the first place? The question was about 38 snub noses and small autos to carry. Who is going to be carrying around a 4-foot long sniper rifle to restaurants and convenience stores? Apparently the original poster wanted a gun to keep in the pocket not to shoot people at a thousand yards.
This is exactly what I am talking about when I speak of gun nuts, a lot of impractical information. How are you even going to conceal an M-14? What does it even have to do with a carry gun? How are we on illegal suppressed 45’s? You get caught with one and it is 20 years in Federal Prison. All that should be on another thread. Ok here is the thing, the majority of people gun writers and citizens alike carry a 38 snubby and for good reason. It is small, carries adequate power and is easy to carry. Yes in the winter you may carry a 45 but what about in the summer when it is shorts and t-shirts?
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November 23rd, 2007 | #78 | |||||||||||||||
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Modern weapons are, but we are still allowed to possess 19th century technology such as bolt and lever action if the rifles and shooters are licensed. I have been shooting for 42 years and spent about a decade with the Australian Army, so my knowledge is not out of magazines. You are obnoxious. Quote:
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On paper, a .25 has less hitting power than a .22. Quote:
The thickness of the forehead bone of the negro skull has been known to stop 9mm and .38. Quote:
Licensed pistol shooters here are limited to .38 or smaller. Heaven forbid we might be able to outgun the police. Quote:
I have fired a few shots in anger courtesy of the army and I know what happens when someone is hit. Take into account the adrenalin factor. Quote:
One was shot in Stalingrad by a 7.62x54 and lost a lung. The other took a 7.62x39 in Vietnam and lost half a lung. Both continued to fight and the younger of the two did not at first realise that he had been hit. Adrenalin will do that. Quote:
You also indulge in the American stupidity of putting a weapon on automatic and spraying like an undisciplined nigger gangster, then wondering WTF you run of ammunition. A well-trained infantry rifleman works on the basis of one shot one kill. Every round you fire has to be replaced by the supply system. A supply system can be disrupted and you become vulnerable while being resupplied. Ammunition should be expended sparingly, very sparingly. That is one of the signs of a well trained and well disciplined soldier. Quote:
I know people who have put multiple 5.56mm rounds into men and watched them keep on running. I had the good fortune to use an FN FAL L1A1, so I did not have to worry about whether or not my rounds would kill. Quote:
I suppose that would be why US soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq are begging and screaming for the army to take M14s out of mothballs? Take a look at the news wire pix sometime. There are plenty of M14s turning up over there and the word is that US soldiers are screaming for M14s to replace their mouse guns. Quote:
If your weapon is too heavy, you are not fit enough. If you cannot conduct minor infantry tactics such as fire and movement with a real rifle then you are not well enough trained and you are not fit enough. Quote:
A 9mm MIGHT kill you. A .45 WILL kill you. Quote:
Anyone who thinks that a Colt or an M14 is 'too heavy' is not up to combat fitness. After a couple of days in the bush with a 40kg pack, an FN rifle, a spare belt for the M60, perhaps a claymore or a spare battery for the radio the rifle should be as light as a twig. In my regiment even the girls in the HQ support staff had no difficulty handling an FN rifle, or an M60 in the bush. Are you saying that they are fitter and stronger than you? Quote:
Anyone who tries for a head shot at anything more than point blank range is an idiot. Pumped full of adrenalin you will be shaking like a leaf and unable to aim accurately. Shoot for the largest target, the torso. People who like to show how clever they are by going for difficult headshots at range will end up dead. |
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November 23rd, 2007 | #79 | |
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Also large calibers don’t function well in sand and mud. But no one is talking about sniper rifles or walking the beat in the military, we are talking about carrying a pistol in your pocket in public places. The 45 acp is not good for this as the only to conceal one is in the winter and if you have to take off your coat the gun is exposed. The original poster wants to know about carrying small caliber weapons. I am sure with an M-14 you will defeat someone carrying a 38sp. But if the M-14 is in the trunk of the car or in a safe at home the 38sp will be victorious every time. I don’t know of anyone who carries an M-14 into the Kwicky mart.
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November 23rd, 2007 | #80 | |||
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I was referring specifically to a civilian on a street pulling out a pistol to save their life. Shoot for centre of mass. Anything else is suicidal folly. Quote:
Perish the thought! That is a sign of a poorly trained soldier. I agree with you about .45 being too big for concealed carry, if one is referring to a Colt. There are, however, smaller .45 pistols. For such situations I prefer a revolver, so I would carry either a .38 or better a .357 with the heaviest projectile I could arrange. A revolver will not jam and .38 or .357 will kill. If you need the 17 shots (or whatever it is) in the magazine of one of those dreadful 9mm Glocks you are dead meat anyway. The number of police here in Australia who have shot themselves in the feet with Glocks is pitiful.:krofl Quote:
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