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Old April 12th, 2008 #41
Richard H.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
Oh yes of course that has to be it. It is better to save 5 cents on a round and spend 300% more on a gun. The reason just as I stated is because soldiers asked for something with more firepower. The M-16 is lighter, holds more rounds and doesnít have barrel climb so it is more accurate if you shot more than once.

If a person is sitting on a hill shooting one target at a time then the M-14 or similar weapons would be idea but if you have to shot more than once you need more firepower even if you lose knockdown power.










Soldiers with 6 weeks of weapons training would just take expert aimed head shots with 4,000 gooks, Arabs or whatever bearing down on them and let go with a 8 round clip. Arabs laying down rapid fire from 30 round AKís and these 18-year-old soldiers who just picked up a gun 6 weeks ago will calmly take aim and pick the Arabs off one by one. I donít know what fantasyland you are living in but real people even true marksmen are not calm enough to take surgical shots in combat.

Ever notice how the clowns who live in countries with complete or near complete gun bans are always the experts and think everyone should go back to 100 year old weapons because that is all they have ever seen. The favorite saying is ďI have never shot a Glock but I can tell you why they are badĒ, or a similar gun.

You also have some kind of myth of people who get high and go out in mass numbers on crime sprees and wonít be turned away from anything less than a mortar round. Stop watching Charles Bronson movies and join the military, wait this is the Internet and you were a highly decorated soldier who saw combat all over the world and could hit a penny at a thousand yards while rounds bounced off the ground 3 inches from your head.

Tell us how successful countries that still use the M-1 Garand are again? How about the FAL, most countries that use that donít do worth a squat in combat situations.
that's a fact ,Jack, if I could have stopped shaking long enoungh I might have been a better shot...but I just hosed em down with my M16
 
Old April 12th, 2008 #42
Sean Martin
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Richard, everyone I know from Viet Nam went in under 19 a couple went in at 16 and 17 and they said the same thing as you are now. I think they are stronger for it today but then it was a different story.


There may be a few people out there that can remain calm in an extreme situation but I have been hunting with people who freeze up on a deer, other world-class shooters with military experience like Jerry Michlack (sp) will freeze in a competition. I cannot begin to imagine what it’s like for a teenager to be dropped off in a strange place with less than 2 months training and all of the sudden thousands of rounds and explosions are raining down on him.

With ZOG closing down all the student loans and all the scholarships going to darkies soon the military will be the only way for a white person to get a kwallege edjewcation. People rag on soldiers but they are just doing a job and some as was the case in Vietnam against their will. To be honest if I were 18 right now even being a WN I would probably be in the military because they are offering a $20,000 bonus plus competitive wages for first time startups and bonuses of $60,000 for returning soldiers with special skills. Teenagers get all jacked up on online games like Halo and such and go to war thinking there will be a reset button.

Right now for a high school graduate in a low wage area the military offers the most attractive package even if it is a bad one. What other job is going to hire a person with no skills train you, give you money for college, give you a $20,000 bonus for starting up and pay you wages while you are there. Go to McDonalds and ask for that deal then see what happens.
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Old April 12th, 2008 #43
SŠndor Petőfi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
That is almost word for word what I tell everyone, what are you doing reading my old posts and throwing my arguments at me?
Whatever. You're delusional if you think I'd bother to go around reading your old posts.

Quote:
Actually gun magazines will be more with your side than what I am saying. They go for the larger calibers.
Actually? My point was not over which they preferred, but that they turn it into a tactical issue, when it is not a tactical issue for government. It's a money issue. The U.S. military does not exist for the defense of the United States. Hasn't since at least the Great War. But at least 50 years ago it wasn't just a business operation.

Quote:
I already stated an 8 round rifle is not adequate against hundreds or thousands of attackers with a death wish, of course I am talking about combat here not stopping a crack head mugger.
Actually, if we go back to the beginning, you stated that the 5.56 was introduced because soldiers could not carry enough ammunition to deal with such waves of attacks. You still haven't said one word with regard to the fact, which I pointed out, that soldiers waste more rounds with an M16 and thus don't conserve ammunition any better. If you need a thirty round magazine to kill the same number of people as you do with an 8 round clip, you're going to run out of ammunition all the same. I don't need combat experience fighting gooks in the jungle or coons in the desert to tell a fallacious argument. The moment you make an argument, you deal in logic, and then you're in my territory.

If you need to lay down fire to deal with waves of attackers, you give squads MGs and provide close air support. Oh, but wait, they've phased those out too for another 5.56 piece of junk. And in 20 years, the Warthog, probably the best aircraft you ever made, will be gone, not to be replaced by a more advanced aircraft of similar function, but by the wholly inadequate F-35. It looks sexy though! Like the little M4 carbine they seem intent on giving to every soldier. But this is just another "conspiracy theory".

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The people who write them are not stupid, they are paid what to say. It is like saying a journalist doesn’t know the truth, he or she writes what brings in a check.
So who is spreading conspiracy theories now?

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So tell us how many AR-15’s you have shot.
I'm not any sort of firearm fundi, not particularly enamoured of the things either, but growing up where I did and having crazy German colonial friends, I've fired off a few weapons in my time, mostly game hunting rifles, but also military issues.

I've completed my mandatory military service, where we trained on the Steyr AUG. I'll tell you, I'd rather depend on an FN FAL in a fight than that thing any day.

But I'm not a former Navy SEAL, Army Ranger, Green Beret Vietname vet gunslinger who hunts gophers in the woords at night like you.



Quote:
How many different guns have you had apart down to the last pin and spring and put back together, how about how much practice you have had in bad weather and any other sort of climate.
Snow and temperate forest.

What does any of that have to do with any of this? Do I need to have built my own guitars and played in dingy bars to know that a Les Paul plays easier and better than a Yamaha?

This is just another one of your stupid ad hominem arguments.

Quote:
What experience do you actually have aside from some conspiracy website?
I've been attacked by armed niggers without the liberty of having a firearm to shoot them. I never froze up or pissed my pants.

Conspiracy? There you have it; just throw out the words "conspiracy theory" and you have won the argument. What about the Stryker? Is that piece of junk just a "conspiracy theory" too? Or your lumbering deathtraps called "supercarriers"?

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Your argument isn’t holding up. First you claim ZOG wants to save money on ammunition then you claim they want to spend 3 times the amount of money on ammunition (more round per kill) and guns because corporations want the contracts.
You do actually know what profit is?

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So does ZOG want to spend the money or save the money?
It wants to spend less money per round at the budget level and make more money per round at the business level. I don't see what is so difficult to understand about this but then I am speaking to a moron.

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You can’t make up your mind, it is just one mindless conspiracy after another.
No. You just don't have a mind.

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It is a simple equation, more rounds means more firepower.
By that equation, you should equip your forces with SMGs.

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The .223 is a high velocity and very accurate round so it is more than adequate in killing and for aimed shots,
It's a piece of junk which cannot even penetrate dense foliage, let alone obstacles in an urban environment where it is most frquently used today.

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well let’s just say people don’t go shooting gophers at 200 yards at night with .223 rifles for nothing.
Yeah, and you'll be lucky if you penetrate thick clothing with lethal velocity at twice that range.

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I see you mentioned Vietnam which proves it is determination over technology. There is a lot of difference fighting on a homeland versus extreme unknown territory. The reason the KWA isn’t successful in places like Vietnam and Iraq is because Americans are not used to that type of battlefield. In places like Germany and Russia American soldiers have shown to be a force because they are accustomed to the mild climate and urban territory. Iraqis and Vietnamese couldn’t do as good here as Americans did over there.
The reason is flawed strategy.

Quote:
You obviously don’t know what you are talking about since you take parts of a post and try to respond to something that has already been answered before you even said it.
Rubbish. Which parts are these? I responded to your entire posts, and you haven't responded to a single one of my actual points.

Quote:
You may know something about philosophy and I am sure if someone is dying in a ditch they will want your google searches and philosophical quotes, however when it comes to things like survivalism, food preparation and storage and combat medicine I think most here would take my word over yours any day.
This isn't about any of those things. So you can keep the appeals to your own authority to yourself. It is about the reasons for the U.S. using the 5.56.

Do you have experience at the executive level of the armaments industry? Do you have experience at the defense level of the U.S. government? Do you have experience at the strategic level of the U.S. military? Do you have the knowledge of economics, politics, military science or psychology necessary to analyse the motivations of these people with any more authority than I?

Quote:
I already showed how soldiers have no experience with guns and need more rounds, you didn’t have an answer for that.
More magazine capacity. Not a smaller caliber.

Obviously the M1 was so lousy, ineffective and hated that it lead a certain person to call it "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man."

Quote:
Go to some thread and argue religion so you can stop tainting the only good place on VNNF with your nonsense and arguments over ideologies instead of what actually works.
What? Scared you're going to lose the only reputation you have left? The opinions of a moron will always be the opinions of a moron, no matter the topic.

Quote:
Soldiers with 6 weeks of weapons training would just take expert aimed head shots with 4,000 gooks,
I never suggested anything of the sort. My reference to head shots was in connection with modern body armour. Just spray wildly with your 5.56 pea shooter and cross your fingers that you hit a foot or a head.

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Arabs or whatever bearing down on them and let go with a 8 round clip.
8 round clips? See how you have to use straw men to argue your point.

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Arabs laying down rapid fire from 30 round AK’s
Oh, so 7.62 magazines don't hold just 8 rounds?

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and these 18-year-old soldiers who just picked up a gun 6 weeks ago will calmly take aim and pick the Arabs off one by one. I don’t know what fantasyland you are living in but real people even true marksmen are not calm enough to take surgical shots in combat.
Yeah, well there you have it. You have to have a weak, rapid fire weapon because you send a bunch of weak, untrained boys, niggers, and worse still, females, into combat.

Quote:
Ever notice how the clowns who live in countries with complete or near complete gun bans are always the experts and think everyone should go back to 100 year old weapons because that is all they have ever seen. The favorite saying is “I have never shot a Glock but I can tell you why they are bad”, or a similar gun.
I have never suggested to go back to weapons from a century ago.

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You also have some kind of myth of people who get high and go out in mass numbers on crime sprees
That happens in South Africa every day.

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and won’t be turned away from anything less than a mortar round.
Where did I mention mortar rounds?

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Stop watching Charles Bronson movies and join the military, wait this is the Internet and you were a highly decorated soldier who saw combat all over the world and could hit a penny at a thousand yards while rounds bounced off the ground 3 inches from your head.
Yeah, just like. Don't you know? I lost an eye in NAM helping Chuck Norris bust Rambo out of an NV prison camp.

Quote:
Tell us how successful countries that still use the M-1 Garand are again?
Exactly what armed conflicts are we using to measure "success". The last time I checked, the U.S.A. lost in Vietnam and is losing in Iraq. Hell, you lost 50 000 men fighting a bunch of primitive gooks. So much for all your huge miltary successes since introducing the 5.56.

And what entitles you single out a firearm as the cause of ineffectiveness in combat, rather than the fact that you are comparing whites to niggers, since niggers, sandniggers, and other primitives are the only ones fighting any wars apart from the U.S.? That and the British in the Falklands performed much better fighting real soldiers than you ever did slugging it out with a bunch of subhumans.

Quote:
How about the FAL, most countries that use that don’t do worth a squat in combat situations.
I can point out the differences in combat casualties for major battles of SADF infantry using the FN FAL in Angola, and U.S. infantry using the M16 in Vietnam. In both cases you had white soldiers and their non-white allies engaging non-white paramilitary forces backed by conventional forces, with Soviet funding and equipment, in somewhat comparable environments.

Last edited by SŠndor Petőfi; April 12th, 2008 at 12:13 PM.
 
Old April 12th, 2008 #44
Richard H.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
Richard, everyone I know from Viet Nam went in under 19 a couple went in at 16 and 17 and they said the same thing as you are now. I think they are stronger for it today but then it was a different story.


There may be a few people out there that can remain calm in an extreme situation but I have been hunting with people who freeze up on a deer, other world-class shooters with military experience like Jerry Michlack (sp) will freeze in a competition. I cannot begin to imagine what itís like for a teenager to be dropped off in a strange place with less than 2 months training and all of the sudden thousands of rounds and explosions are raining down on him.

With ZOG closing down all the student loans and all the scholarships going to darkies soon the military will be the only way for a white person to get a kwallege edjewcation. People rag on soldiers but they are just doing a job and some as was the case in Vietnam against their will. To be honest if I were 18 right now even being a WN I would probably be in the military because they are offering a $20,000 bonus plus competitive wages for first time startups and bonuses of $60,000 for returning soldiers with special skills. Teenagers get all jacked up on online games like Halo and such and go to war thinking there will be a reset button.

Right now for a high school graduate in a low wage area the military offers the most attractive package even if it is a bad one. What other job is going to hire a person with no skills train you, give you money for college, give you a $20,000 bonus for starting up and pay you wages while you are there. Go to McDonalds and ask for that deal then see what happens.
that's a fact, my 31 yr old son joined when he was 29; I asked him had he been doing drugs, LOL; but he was given a $15000 bonus right off the bat. He really moved up fast; and has just been promoted to buck sgt. He is in El Paso at Ft. Bliss and was offered another bonus of $20000 for adding another 6 yrs. He tells me he would like to make it a career. Hell; nobody is offering that kind of pay in the civilian world. He lives in military housing just 5 minutes from work in a 3 bdrm home, no rent, no utilities, no insurance payments; SHIT, I wish I had it as good. His wife is a teacher and the school is 10 minutes from their place. I would say they're clearing a little better than 6 grand a month, must be nice. He just got his flight packet and will be training to fly blackhawk helicopters, damn; he's done well for himself and his 2 daughters and wife. It damn sure was not that way when I was in, but that was 40 yrs ago.
 
Old April 12th, 2008 #45
Neil Hudson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SŠndor Petőfi View Post
It's a piece of junk which cannot even penetrate dense foliage, let alone obstacles in an urban environment where it is most frquently used today.
If the 5.56x45 is so crappy then why do the Russians use a similar sized round, the 5.45X39?
 
Old April 12th, 2008 #46
Sean Martin
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Sean Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SŠndor Petőfi View Post
Whatever. You're delusional if you think I'd bother to go around reading your old posts.
Whatever you say.

Quote:
You still haven't said one word with regard to the fact, which I pointed out, that soldiers waste more rounds with an M16 and thus don't conserve ammunition any better. If you need a thirty round magazine to kill the same number of people as you do with an 8 round clip, you're going to run out of ammunition all the same.
I already did if you learned to read. The majority of soldiers are teenagers or at least under 25 and donít have any real training. They need more rounds. If you have a squad of well trained snipers then 3 shot bolt actions would suffice with a support man with an M-14.

But as I pointed out earlier it takes more rounds to fight more people. Fighting Germans who didnít want to die was one thing, however gooks will run right into gun fire by the thousands and there is a need for more rounds.

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If you need to lay down fire to deal with waves of attackers, you give squads MGs and provide close air support.
Air support isnít something you can call up and have in a second, by the time air support arrives the fight is usually over. When a soldier needs firepower he needs it instantly not in a half hour.


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Like the little M4 carbine they seem intent on giving to every soldier. But this is just another "conspiracy theory".
In the hands of a skilled shooter the M4 is deadly up to 400 yards and even 500 yards in the right conditions. Most fights take place under 300 yards. Even with the M4 soldiers run out of ammunition in firefights. I donít claim that soldiers are trained marksmen however the M4 is good for the sniper as well as for the person with the spray and pray mentality.

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So who is spreading conspiracy theories now?
Gun magazine writers (who you can meet at any major gun show) will tell you they write what sells and what they are paid to write.

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I've completed my mandatory military service, where we trained on the Steyr AUG. I'll tell you, I'd rather depend on an FN FAL in a fight than that thing any day.
Of course I am not knocking the value of those rifles but for the cost they are not worth the extra money.

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But I'm not a former Navy SEAL, Army Ranger, Green Beret Vietname vet gunslinger who hunts gophers in the woords at night like you.
Vietnam was over when I was born and I have no idea what a woords is.

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What does any of that have to do with any of this? Do I need to have built my own guitars and played in dingy bars to know that a Les Paul plays easier and better than a Yamaha?
No but to make the claims you are making about combat you need to have a lot of experience with both before you say what a person should and shouldnít use.

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I never froze up .
Liars always say they never freeze. The ones I know that have shot people and could verify it always had some sort of problem before they pulled the trigger.

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I am speaking to a moron.
This coming from an idiot that thinks Arab camel humpers are white and completely derailed the point of this thread. You never once answered if anything smaller than a 45 will penetrate a groids skull. You go into all sorts of nonsense to avoid the main subject.

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No. You just don't have a mind.
At least I know what an Aryan is and it isnít some mud colored Iranian.

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It's a piece of junk which cannot even penetrate dense foliage, let alone obstacles in an urban environment where it is most frquently used today.

Yeah, and you'll be lucky if you penetrate thick clothing with lethal velocity at twice that range.
The only reason I am even acknowledging your foolishness is because stupid statements like you are making will mislead people about weapons. The truth is weapons could be the most important thing we will ever discuss and stupid people who donít know what they are talking about will give bad information and could cause some others who donít have experience to make mistakes.

Quote:
This isn't about any of those things. So you can keep the appeals to your own authority to yourself. It is about the reasons for the U.S. using the 5.56.
So why did the Russians go to the AK round and the Germans were making plans to go to a smaller round? Only places that lose wars still depend on massive rounds, yet they also must rely on countries that use smaller rounds for defense.

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Do you have experience at the executive level of the armaments industry?
I know that many people with unlimited budgets will carry the M4 with a $3,000 H&K sitting at home in the closet.
Quote:
Do you have experience at the defense level of the U.S. government?
Do you?
Quote:
Do you have experience at the strategic level of the U.S. military? Do you have the knowledge of economics, politics, military science or psychology necessary to analyse the motivations of these people with any more authority than I?
Some of my military friends and people I have talked to do and that is where I learned.

Quote:
More magazine capacity. Not a smaller caliber.
That shows you donít know what you are talking about. You still have the weight and with a .308 in anything more than a 20 round magazine is impossible to maneuver. Also the .308 as I have said before isnít accurate after the first shot if shooting rapid fire. I donít care how strong a person is if the gun isnít mounted then your third shot will be in the air.

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Obviously the M1 was so lousy, ineffective and hated that it lead a certain person to call it "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man."
First trials were ineffective and improvements were made.
Quote:
What? Scared you're going to lose the only reputation you have left?
Because some unknown idiot uses google? I have stomped unknowns on VNNF for years, they will cry and leave, demand I be banned or get banned themselves. Then come back as sockpuppets.

Quote:
I never suggested anything of the sort. My reference to head shots was in connection with modern body armour. Just spray wildly with your 5.56 pea shooter and cross your fingers that you hit a foot or a head.
Those genius camel humpers are all going to be clad in body armor. Even at that the .223 FMJ will penetrate most body armor.

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Yeah, well there you have it. You have to have a weak, rapid fire weapon because you send a bunch of weak, untrained boys, and worse still, females, into combat.
I have seen foreign soldiers and trust me they are not any better.

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Exactly what armed conflicts are we using to measure "success". The last time I checked, the U.S.A. lost in Vietnam and is losing in Iraq.
The reason the USA isnít successful against non-whites is because they donít use the same tactics. The North beat the south because they would go into places like Atlanta where there were no men and burn it to the ground. They went into places like Dresden where there were no men and burnt it to the ground. I donít even have to mention what they did to the japs.

If they applied the same genocidal tactics to Vietnam and Iraq there wouldnít be a war.


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you lost 50 000 men fighting a bunch of primitive gooks. So much for all your huge miltary successes since introducing the 5.56.
Gooks had the home field advantage, dedicated instead of drafted soldiers and the AK. Guerilla warfare is almost impossible to win.


Quote:
That and the British in the Falklands performed much better fighting real soldiers than you ever did slugging it out with a bunch of subhumans.
AS I recall Germany stomped all of Europe without even a fight and if America hadnít bailed them out all of you would be saluting the Swastika today. I am not saying it was a good thing, but the British arenít a serious military force and they donít fare as good as Americans with ragheads even though they have better trained soldiers.




So after I stomped you in religious threads, humiliated you in Arab threads you are going to come to this section and derail every thread with an America vs Britain debate instead of answering the question.



Will anything smaller than a 45 acp penetrate a Negroís skull?
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Old April 12th, 2008 #47
Richard H.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
Whatever you say.


I already did if you learned to read. The majority of soldiers are teenagers or at least under 25 and don’t have any real training. They need more rounds. If you have a squad of well trained snipers then 3 shot bolt actions would suffice with a support man with an M-14.

But as I pointed out earlier it takes more rounds to fight more people. Fighting Germans who didn’t want to die was one thing, however gooks will run right into gun fire by the thousands and there is a need for more rounds.


Air support isn’t something you can call up and have in a second, by the time air support arrives the fight is usually over. When a soldier needs firepower he needs it instantly not in a half hour.



In the hands of a skilled shooter the M4 is deadly up to 400 yards and even 500 yards in the right conditions. Most fights take place under 300 yards. Even with the M4 soldiers run out of ammunition in firefights. I don’t claim that soldiers are trained marksmen however the M4 is good for the sniper as well as for the person with the spray and pray mentality.


Gun magazine writers (who you can meet at any major gun show) will tell you they write what sells and what they are paid to write.


Of course I am not knocking the value of those rifles but for the cost they are not worth the extra money.


Vietnam was over when I was born and I have no idea what a woords is.


No but to make the claims you are making about combat you need to have a lot of experience with both before you say what a person should and shouldn’t use.


Liars always say they never freeze. The ones I know that have shot people and could verify it always had some sort of problem before they pulled the trigger.


This coming from an idiot that thinks Arab camel humpers are white and completely derailed the point of this thread. You never once answered if anything smaller than a 45 will penetrate a groids skull. You go into all sorts of nonsense to avoid the main subject.


At least I know what an Aryan is and it isn’t some mud colored Iranian.



The only reason I am even acknowledging your foolishness is because stupid statements like you are making will mislead people about weapons. The truth is weapons could be the most important thing we will ever discuss and stupid people who don’t know what they are talking about will give bad information and could cause some others who don’t have experience to make mistakes.


So why did the Russians go to the AK round and the Germans were making plans to go to a smaller round? Only places that lose wars still depend on massive rounds, yet they also must rely on countries that use smaller rounds for defense.


I know that many people with unlimited budgets will carry the M4 with a $3,000 H&K sitting at home in the closet.

Do you?

Some of my military friends and people I have talked to do and that is where I learned.


That shows you don’t know what you are talking about. You still have the weight and with a .308 in anything more than a 20 round magazine is impossible to maneuver. Also the .308 as I have said before isn’t accurate after the first shot if shooting rapid fire. I don’t care how strong a person is if the gun isn’t mounted then your third shot will be in the air.


First trials were ineffective and improvements were made.

Because some unknown idiot uses google? I have stomped unknowns on VNNF for years, they will cry and leave, demand I be banned or get banned themselves. Then come back as sockpuppets.


Those genius camel humpers are all going to be clad in body armor. Even at that the .223 FMJ will penetrate most body armor.


I have seen foreign soldiers and trust me they are not any better.


The reason the USA isn’t successful against non-whites is because they don’t use the same tactics. The North beat the south because they would go into places like Atlanta where there were no men and burn it to the ground. They went into places like Dresden where there were no men and burnt it to the ground. I don’t even have to mention what they did to the japs.

If they applied the same genocidal tactics to Vietnam and Iraq there wouldn’t be a war.



Gooks had the home field advantage, dedicated instead of drafted soldiers and the AK. Guerilla warfare is almost impossible to win.



AS I recall Germany stomped all of Europe without even a fight and if America hadn’t bailed them out all of you would be saluting the Swastika today. I am not saying it was a good thing, but the British aren’t a serious military force and they don’t fare as good as Americans with ragheads even though they have better trained soldiers.




So after I stomped you in religious threads, humiliated you in Arab threads you are going to come to this section and derail every thread with an America vs Britain debate instead of answering the question.



Will anything smaller than a 45 acp penetrate a Negro’s skull?
for th sake of argument; the only reason the gooks used the russian or chinese version of the AK47 was NOT for accuracy, the 5.56 round will shoot circles around the 7.62 round. Have you ever WITNESSED in person and AK47 in action? hell the barrel bows up when fired and the whole weapon about shakes apart, the only saving grace about it is they NEVER jam, throw them in the mud, water, dirt whatever; the tolerances are so loose it's almost impossible to make them lock up, but they aren't accurate for shit, it's a big ole' heavy round that when fired on full auto is deadly, this is the only reason the U.S. uses it in their mini-guns and other full auto weapons, is for putting a lot of heavy lead down range; this is the voice of experience speaking. Now; on the other hand; if you want to spend a crapload of money on a single weapon having it accurized, you can get some decent range, but who wants to spend several hundred dollars on an AK when you could spend that money on an extremely deadly accurate M14 instead?BTW; this paragraph is FYI Sandor; I'm not trying to rain on your parade; but I've seen the M16 and the AK in action under the most dire circumstances imaginable so I know!

Last edited by Richard H.; April 12th, 2008 at 11:42 PM.
 
Old April 13th, 2008 #48
Sean Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard H. View Post
for th sake of argument; the only reason the gooks used the russian or chinese version of the AK47 was NOT for accuracy, the 5.56 round will shoot circles around the 7.62 round.
Up close at around 100 yards from my experience the AK is very accurate. I have built up a couple on a budget to actually look like ARís. They preformed very well.

I hate to admit that I love the AK, however I think it is silly as some here have claimed that the AR has no power, accuracy, penetration or knockdown power. I think the AK vs AR debate is one that will never be resolved.


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Have you ever WITNESSED in person and AK47 in action?
Sadly 95% of the people I have seen shoot an AK have done so from the hip.

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the only saving grace about it is they NEVER jam, throw them in the mud, water, dirt whatever; the tolerances are so loose it's almost impossible to make them lock up,
Now with dust covers and proper maintenance the AR is supposed to perform with almost the same

There are things I like about each of them, the AK is tough and a monkey could be an expert with it in a half hour (including tearing completely down). The AR is more accurate, can carry more ammo, has more upgrades and has a better magazine release.



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this is the voice of experience speaking.
Which really makes your word more meaningful than the rest of us. I have been on the range, field and shop with both but never in combat.

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Now; on the other hand; if you want to spend a load of money on a single weapon having it accurized, you can get some decent range,
Thankfully today there is TAPCO and one can do a low buck upgrade of the AK for about $150 which still brings the total price to $500 or under comparable to $900 for the most bare bones AR a person can buy. I really miss the days of $75 SKSís.
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Old April 13th, 2008 #49
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IMO a 38 to any part of the main torso or neck would stop anyone from hand gun range.
 
Old April 20th, 2008 #50
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"Dealing with the problems means dealing with the jews, anything else is like mopping the floor with the tap still running."...Alex Linder

Yes, headshots work effectively on jews.
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Old April 20th, 2008 #51
Neil Hudson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGee View Post
"Dealing with the problems means dealing with the jews, anything else is like mopping the floor with the tap still running."...Alex Linder

Yes, headshots work effectively on jews.
If a 22 can instantly drop a large cow with a shot to the head it could definitely penetrate a nigger's skull.

Just think of what it could do to yarmulke!
 
Old June 14th, 2008 #52
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At one time there was a law against shooting coons in the head while hunting them, it might bounce off and his a human!

Seriously, the human (and nigger) skull is very hard and some bullets WILL skid, bounce, glance off or not get to go through. The head is a small target and moving all the time, so a high chest shot is generally best. Center of mass hits always work well.
 
Old May 21st, 2012 #53
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What kind of racist garbage is this?! People who deserve to be shot come in all colors, ethnicities, etc. I know, work with, and have friends from nearly every place on Earth, and there are good and bad from every place on Earth as well, so this topic is ridiculous in this day and age. Nearly ANY caliber will take down a scumbag criminal, including a .22lr in well trained hands, as has been demonstrated by the Mossad on various El Al flights and assassination missions ordered by the Prime Minister of Israel on enemies of that Nation.
 
Old May 23rd, 2012 #54
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www.ussliberty.org


http://jewishfaces.com/china.html


http://www.trumanlibrary.org/oralhist/wright.htm

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/books-Preface.html

http://www.vdare.com/articles/stalin...vs-macdonald-0

http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/books.htm
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Old May 28th, 2012 #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Mcrea View Post
What kind of racist garbage is this?! People who deserve to be shot come in all colors, ethnicities, etc. I know, work with, and have friends from nearly every place on Earth, and there are good and bad from every place on Earth as well, so this topic is ridiculous in this day and age. Nearly ANY caliber will take down a scumbag criminal, including a .22lr in well trained hands, as has been demonstrated by the Mossad on various El Al flights and assassination missions ordered by the Prime Minister of Israel on enemies of that Nation.
Take it back to revleft, drive-by queer.
 
Old June 19th, 2012 #56
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If you do like daddy told you and keep your hands up, throw a straight right hand down the middle and get him right in the chops, his brain will turn off. Then you can disbatch the animal any way you like. Also the edge of your hand (karate chop) to the neck thrown with a backhand kind of motion is effective. Or shoot him in the face with 00 buck shot.
 
Old June 19th, 2012 #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Mcrea View Post
What kind of racist garbage is this?! People who deserve to be shot come in all colors, ethnicities, etc. I know, work with, and have friends from nearly every place on Earth, and there are good and bad from every place on Earth as well, so this topic is ridiculous in this day and age. Nearly ANY caliber will take down a scumbag criminal, including a .22lr in well trained hands, as has been demonstrated by the Mossad on various El Al flights and assassination missions ordered by the Prime Minister of Israel on enemies of that Nation.
Oh boy are you in for it.
 
Old June 19th, 2012 #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeQuigley View Post
Or shoot him in the face with 00 buck shot.
This post isn't in response to the original post or poster and certainly not in response to the title of the thread. I've been the victim of black violence on several occasions but know of few young White thugs that are just as violent.

That said, here's the solution for close combat situations. The Taurus Judge. It comes in a variety of flavors. Mine is in stainless with 3" barrel and fires the 2.5" .410 shotgun shell as well as the .45 Long Colt cartridge. I keep the Winchester PDX1 self-defense .410 shotgun shells in it.

The PDX1 shells contain three (3) plated .36 caliber discs followed by 12 plated pieces of shot IN EACH SHELL. It's devastating at close range and one can hardly miss a target with this firearm and shell combination.

The Judge is an excellent firearm for the home or the car. The .410 self-defense shotgun shells available for it are good to about 21 feet. If you need accuracy beyond 21 feet then a cartridge based firearm would be a better solution. But the Judge can't be beat for close combat.


Demonstration fire of PDX1 .410 cartridge fired from Judge 3" barrel. Watermelon disappears.
(See also at 1:10 minutes to get an idea of the pattern of the discs and shot when fire onto a paper target.)


Would also be an excellent choice for a woman in the home or in the car although it's larger than a .40 S&W auto loader or a .38 special.
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Old July 9th, 2012 #59
Roy Wagahuski
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For the deterrent effect, i.e. a blinding wound, of blasting someone with #12 birdshot the .410 + short-barrel concept works well. Very well. In fact, the designers' original intent was that: One snapshot at a car-jacker's face and get the hell outta dodge.

As for the 'serious' defensive load, unfortunately, the buckshot makes an ineffective killer. The ballistics suck.

http://www.410handguns.com/410_gel_results.html

The pellets must penetrate an attacker's body deeply enough to be able to pass through a vital cardiovascular structure to cause rapid fatal hemorrhage to quickly deprive the brain of oxygenated blood needed to maintain consciousness. And that, ever since the FBI's first wound-ballistics meeting in 1987, is mandated as a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in test-gelatin.

The .410 + short-barrel combination fails the test, and can't be relied upon for effective self-defense outside a very specific set of circumstances.
 
Old July 9th, 2012 #60
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You're an idiot who apparently has no knowledge of firearms or the proper self-defense firearm loads.

No one is going to put #12 birdshot in a .45LC\.410 revolver for self-defense. Hunting small game, yes; self-defense, no. Don't confuse bird shot with buck shot.

Did you read the information on the Federal Premium .410 Handgun 4-Pellet 000 Buck 2Ĺ-inch shells? I bought a box of these very shells yesterday for my 3" Taurus Judge. Here's the results this shell being fired into a 10x10x12-inch block of ballistic gel at a distance of 10 yards (30 feet) with a velocity of 1012 fps from a Taurus Judge with 3" barrel.

Quote:
Watch the video carefully and see all four pellets exit the 10x10x12-inch block. The top pellet, which retains the most rounded shape, exits the block first. The flattened fourth pellet leaves the block last.

Pellet Penetration (Inches): 9.25- 13.62
If you think the Taurus Judge or even the S&W Governor firing a .410 shotgun shell like the Federal 4-Pellet 000 Buck 2Ĺ-inch shell are ineffective why not let me use you for a test subject and let's see if your hypothesis stands the test in the real world? I'll supply the ammo and testing range, you can wear your winter clothing but no Kevlar. Deal?

One thing I did see from those tests found here is that the Winchester PDX1 wasn't as effective as the Federal 4-Pellet 000 Buck 2Ĺ-inch shells with the former only achieving about a 7.5 inch penetration. I'll be putting the Federal shells in the Judge now instead of the PDX1.

Of course the PDX1 has a velocity of only 750fps just a bit slower than a .45acp whereas the Federal shells show a velocity of 1200fps according to their respective boxes. With everything considered this is how I have my Judge loaded:

Chambers 1-5:
1. Winchester PDX1
2. Federal 4-Pellet 000 Buck
3. Winchester PDX1
4. Federal 4-Pellet 000 Buck
5. Federal 4-Pellet 000 Buck

The Judge is great for the nightstand at home or for any close combat situation when loaded above, or with all Federal 4-Pellet 000 buck shot. Within a 21 foot radius it's deadly.

It's not a revolver I'd carry though since I wouldn't want to hit an innocent bystander if I had to take down a violent, murdering bad guy. It also has only five chambers. For carry I prefer a .45acp auto loader with at least 41 rounds of ammunition. That translates to one in the chamber and a full magazine in the pistol with two spare magazines fully loaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Wagahuski View Post
For the deterrent effect, i.e. a blinding wound, of blasting someone with #12 birdshot the .410 + short-barrel concept works well. Very well. In fact, the designers' original intent was that: One snapshot at a car-jacker's face and get the hell outta dodge.

Unfortunately the combination makes an ineffective killer. The ballistics suck.

http://www.410handguns.com/410_gel_results.html

The pellets must penetrate an attacker's body deeply enough to be able to pass through a vital cardiovascular structure to cause rapid fatal hemorrhage to quickly deprive the brain of oxygenated blood needed to maintain consciousness. And that, ever since the FBI's first wound-ballistics meeting in 1987, is mandated as a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in test-gelatin.

The .410 + short-barrel combination fails the test, and can't be relied upon for effective self-defense outside a very specific set of circumstances.

Last edited by OTPTT; July 9th, 2012 at 01:30 PM.
 
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