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Old December 16th, 2004 #841
Ben Vinyard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
Obviously order rats -- including Bruce Pierce according to news clippings GM posted from '85 -- are the ones who led the feds to him in the first place by confessing to giving him the money. Obviously Miller didn't turn himself in.
So what? Irrelevant to the fact that he testified against men who did not lead the feds to him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
Glenn says he was facing life for the associated crimes of accepting 200,000 stolen money and hiding out David Lane. Lane approached Miller, and Miller hid him out. According to GM Lane himself attempted to make a deal with the feds. He produced a quote from a standard book on the Order fiasco, claiming this.
Offering to make a deal is not the same thing as making a deal, is it? The translation is that Lane didn't make a deal and Miller did. Even IF Lane had made a deal, which he didn't, that still doesn't justify testifying against men who did not make a deal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
I'm amazed that you haven't read Miller's own account, and yet want to argue this subject.
We are not the ones who want to argue the subject, you are. There is nothing to argue. I have read Miller's account. He admitted to testifying. He admitted to the Federal Witness Protection Program. He has admitted to everything we have accused him of. And you know what, Glenn Miller? I believe you! I believe that you did in fact do as you said and testified. I believe you did in fact do as you said and accepted money from the Federal Witness Protection Program.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
When the government makes a case, they want as many witnesses as they can get, even if some of the testimony is redundant and superfluous.
Yes, that is so they can corroborate evidence and put men in jail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
Show me how Miller's testimony harmed a soul and I'll be on your side. How did Miller's testimony put anyone in jail, either from the Order or from the acquitted defendants in the sedition trial? You can't, because none did. Show me, and I'll be on your side.
It has already been stated that Louis Beam was confined during the trial. That fact that they were found innocent does not dispute the fact that Miller testified against them so that, instead of him spending life in prison, they would.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
You keep operating on the premise that what GM did was wrong. You haven't shown this.
Miller testified against men who did not rat on him or testify against him. That's what he did that was wrong. I don't know how much more obvious I can make it. I don't know how to break it down any simpler for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
I say he was rolled over on by a bunch of rats and made the only decision available to him, which harmed no one. You haven't disputed this, just repeated 'rat' 'rat' 'rat.' That's not honest.
No, we've disputed it in virtually every single reply to you. You are not being honest. Richard Scutari, Pastor Butler, Robert Miles and Louis Beam did not "roll over" on Miller, he rolled over on them. Even Miller does not dispute this. That makes him a "rat" "rat" "rat." It was not "the only decision available to him." He could have done what Richard Scutari did (who was also turned in by rats) and refused the deal that was offered. That's why Scutari is a man of honor and respect and Miller is not. The fact that the men Miller testified against were found innocent does not dispute that fact that he put their life and liberty in direct danger in order to save his own skin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
... show that he did something wrong, something dishonorable, and I and Linder and Will Williams will be with you..
He testified against men who did not rat on him or testify against him. That was wrong and dishonorable. So are you with us now, JB? Prove yourself a man of your word and stand with us because Miller did something wrong and dishonorable: he testified against men who did not rat on him or testify against him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
... About your suggestion that I obtain the court documents - the burden of proof isn't on me.
Miller himself doesn't even deny testifying. And you know what? I believe you, Glenn Miller! I believe you did in fact do as you said and testified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB112
... I'm perfectly happy to cut GM the moment it's shown he behaved dishonorably at any time.
He testified against men who did not rat on him or testify against him. That is how he behaved dishonorably. Prove yourself to be a man of your word and "cut" Glenn Miller because he behaved dishonorably: he testified against men who did not rat on him or testify against him.

Sorry, JB, I just don't know how to put it down into any more basic terms for you.

Ben Vinyard
 
Old December 16th, 2004 #842
Franco
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Quote:
So what? Irrelevant to the fact that he testified against men who did not lead the feds to him.

Granted. I never said otherwise.

But - and I keep having to come back to this, for some reason: would Miller have ever testified in the first place if not for B. Pierce? Would Miller have come forward and told the Feds xyz? That is the whole nugget, and so far no one has answered that question.


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Old December 16th, 2004 #843
WRMC 14
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No I don't owe Miller a apology because he still ratted on Beam,Butler, Miles and a couple other without any justification. Also you try to point out it was Pierce who snitched,how did the whole Order get the blame then???? This still does'nt make any sense because if Bruce Pierce snitched on Miller why did'nt he snitch on Dr. Pierce. There was also a article stating David Lane tried to cut a deal I think Lane is still in prison and he will die there. That was one hell of a deal guys.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco
The article says what it says. I read it. I speak English. It says what it says.

If that is true [shouldn't someone find out??, and, why wouldn't it be true -- did they just make that up?? If so, why??], then you owe Miller one hell of an apology, I would say.


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Old December 16th, 2004 #844
Franco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRMC 14
No I don't owe Miller a apology because he still ratted on Beam,Butler, Miles and a couple other without any justification. Also you try to point out it was Pierce who snitched,how did the whole Order get the blame then???? This still does'nt make any sense because if Bruce Pierce snitched on Miller why did'nt he snitch on Dr. Pierce. There was also a article stating David Lane tried to cut a deal I think Lane is still in prison and he will die there. That was one hell of a deal guys.

My question remains unanswered.


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Old December 16th, 2004 #845
WRMC 14
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And we still have to keep coming back to the point that you can't justify Glen Miller ratting on everyone just because Bruce Pierce ratted on him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco
Granted. I never said otherwise.

But - and I keep having to come back to this, for some reason: would Miller have ever testified in the first place if not for B. Pierce? Would Miller have come forward and told the Feds xyz? That is the whole nugget, and so far no one has answered that question.


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Old December 16th, 2004 #846
FolkishChristian
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Default Bruce Pierce

Pierce didn't talk, the proof is in the setnece and his testimony after receiving the longest of all the Order's sentences 252 years and losing His wife and family. he didn't ask for the judges mercy(unlike Miller):

"I'm not going to waste my time or yours. I am sorry for the pain I caused my dear wife and family. Whatever happens to me, I'd like to bring honor to my family and kinsman, and glory to God"

I say Bruce you did bring honor to us and God and we will never forget your deeds nor will we allow the next generation to be fooled into allowing your betrayers to ruin what you gave your life for.

To this day Bruce is influential in bringing kinsman in the prison system to God's racialist message and inspires white youth worldwide with his steadfast loyalty and unswerving commitment to the cause of white freedom.
 
Old December 16th, 2004 #847
Phantasm
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRMC 14
...
No apparently Miller was preparing for his own little war in North Carolina according to that newspaper article I just read. I thought you guys said Miller was being legal? How can you condem the Order and in the same paragraph praise Miller when he was playing to do virtually the same thing the Order did.
Outstanding “slight of hand” Chris!
Miller's alleged war plans prior to the “Order incident” are somehow relevant because...?

Now you guys are just squirming... admit it.

 
Old December 16th, 2004 #848
WRMC 14
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Well if the article that you posted has any truth to it then I would say yes because the man would have incriminated himslef if he had'nt already in that trial. I still ca'nt see how you can justify Miller testifying against everyone because Bruce Pirce might have ratted him out. That does'nt make Miller any less of a rat.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco
Life in prison? Miller wasn't looking at life in prison. He was facing maybe 20 years tops.

Can you answer my question? Would Miller have come forward on his own and "ratted" if not for B. Pierce? Please answer that before you go any further. It's an honest question.


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Old December 16th, 2004 #849
WRMC 14
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Bullshit you are just avoiding the issuse now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm
Outstanding “slight of hand” Chris!
Miller's alleged war plans prior to the “Order incident” are somehow relevant because...?

Now you guys are just squirming... admit it.

 
Old December 16th, 2004 #850
Ben Vinyard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco
Life in prison? Miller wasn't looking at life in prison. He was facing maybe 20 years tops.
That makes his actions even worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco
Can you answer my question? Would Miller have come forward on his own and "ratted" if not for B. Pierce? Please answer that before you go any further. It's an honest question.
If my auntie had balls would it make her my uncle? Sorry for the smart response, but it is entirely irrelevant who led the feds to Miller. I don't care if it was Bruce Pierce, Doctor Pierce or Hawkeye Pierce. It doesn't change the simple and obvious fact that he testified against men who did not rat on him or who did not testify against him, like Richard Scutari, Pastor Butler, Robert Miles and Louis Beam.

Ben Vinyard
 
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