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December 20th, 2018 | #1 |
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#1 Crypto Thread (formerly #Bitcoin)
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December 24th, 2018 | #2 |
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Bitcoin is legal tender nowhere and not redeemable for any commodity. It isn't backed by military force, either. The whole network uses a ridiculous amount of electricity to perform futile computations. How is this not just an elaborate Ponzi scheme? You're hoping that someone will want to buy your waste heat receipts in the future because.... of Bitcoin brand name recognition, I guess? The supply of crypto is not limited if anyone can just copy the bitcoin (or litecoin, monero, or whatever) source code and start minting his own coin.
It seems to me that the future of crypto is to keep the blockchain technology but to ditch the "mining" process. Use the blockchain for trading digital depository receipts of hard assets that exist in a vault somewhere. For example, a company buys a million ounces of gold and creates a million bitgold tokens on its network. The company then sells its bitgold tokens (for dollars, bitcoin, or whatever else it will accept). This company, however, would be legally obligated to withdraw gold from its vault for anyone with a token who shows up at its office. Obviously, this wouldn't be happen very often. And the company needs to exact transaction fees in order to keep the vaults and offices staffed. It turns out that several Gold-backed cryptos exist. (https://www.agau.io/, https://ekon.gold, https://onegram.org/). (Disclaimer: I don't own any of these and I'm not trying to hawk them, but I'm posting the links for those who are interested because I think this is the future of crypto). This model could be extended to ownership of companies (e.g., tokens redeemable for units of S & P 500 ETFs), or to futures contracts for commodity delivery (of oil, wheat, etc). Furthermore, a company could create its own composite coin by combining several assets that have inverse price correlations (that is, one moves up when the other moves down). Now, you have a currency that has two very appealing properties: it can't be created out of thin air and it can be redeemed for utility goods. |
December 26th, 2018 | #3 |
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I don't know...you have too much emotion against it, which tells me you feel there is something to BitCoin.
It's easy to point out what's wrong with real ponzi schemes, undeniable. social security, madoff and such. All money is based on faith, there's more reason to have faith in BitCoin's underlying technology than in the dollar. Both are valuable and figure to be valuable in the future, is my guess. The difference between dollar and bitcoin is that bitcoin is based on solid and developing technology, whereas dollar is based on US Govt. which is essentially a global empire that is running out of quality people. Russia, China and others are working to create options besides SWIFT and the dollar as currency reserve. I don't think the long-term future for the dollar is solid, altho I'm sure it will retain value for some time. |
December 26th, 2018 | #4 | |
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December 27th, 2018 | #6 |
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what's a dollar? paper and ink. no inherent value. value is it's backed by the USG. which allows it to be debased continually for 100 years. as the US empire dc
bitcoin or some alternative currency based on blockchain will work because there is a market for non-inflatable currency and private value exchanges not trackable by govt, completely outside the banking system. bitcoin is the first and most famous, if it's not the best in other ways. there are only 21,000,000 bitcoins that can exist, that's how the creator set it. some of them are lost forever. just watching now, but keiser and herbert discuss it, i think in this dec 27 episode Last edited by Alex Linder; December 27th, 2018 at 10:07 AM. |
December 27th, 2018 | #7 |
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points
BitCoin ,then pushing block chain. some distinction here. these guys are saying BitCoin > generic blockchain technology due to proof of work analyst predicts BC rise back to 5-6k then fall back under 3k in 2019 alt-coin = non-bitcoin. a term. expects true bottom when bc starts rising, the alt-coins stay low, as he thinks they're garbage. "tone vays" is the analyst. "BC is as sound as it ever was from a FUNDAMENTAL perspective." and he has the OPPOSITE view on other coins. he means bc's CODE is improving, getting better. fundamentals = code. code updates are very good, he says. this is NEW stuff. not all the KINKS are worked out. that's why it has exhilarating highs and perilous lows. if Euro breaks up (back to franc, lira, marc, etc), that's good for BC "BC is the only investment-grade asset" he says if you have a 3-5 year outlook, bc is great buy, particularly under 5k BC has declined 80% from all-time high on 20 december 2017, why? hype. people thought pro traders coming in would change things. overshot up, now overshooting down. is vay's explanation. he says: i have no bc held by third parties when it IS, then risk of them doing the fractional reserve bs. which has led people like keiser to mention "proof of keys" which almost defeats the purpose of bc - you being able and supposed to manage your own money. not leave it/trust it with third parties advises people not to use coinbase. bitcoin was designed for you to hold your own money. like silver or gold. |
December 27th, 2018 | #8 |
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December 27th, 2018 | #9 |
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points:
- 2018 saw code for smaller, quicker transactions (more useful). "layer 2 scaling solutions like Lightning" - making bitcoin more useful so it can begin to compete with zognotes - challenges from forks (such as BitCoin Cash) dissipate - BC has fallen 80-90% 4-5x...but if you look at any other timescale apart from that last 12 months this is top performing asset... - (expert 2) more institutionalized. market changing. 1500 is more reasonable. needs to go to knew lows and stay there awhile - rearchitecture of financial system - BC been thru these cycles before. which comes out the other side, which go to 0? |
December 27th, 2018 | #10 |
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What's your opinion on this, Alex? Do you think it's a good buy around the $1000-1500 range? Anyone else want to comment?
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December 27th, 2018 | #11 |
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At this point, I don't see BC being a good investment. The only useful purpose I see for it is donating to WNs who got the boot off of payjew or gojewme.
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December 27th, 2018 | #12 | |
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i think now is a great time. but you could also wait and see if it goes under 2000 as some think. but beware: there is a real chance ALL money invested in BC is lost. if BC does become The crypto, it wont matter at all what you paid, otherwise - same thing. this stuff is more all or nothing. so it seems to me with some research. this is the year i really look into it. i've done one round, now i'm really looking at it hard. |
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December 27th, 2018 | #14 | |
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this is a new, unclear very dynamic exciting market. BC is the first in. i think there's something to it. |
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December 27th, 2018 | #15 |
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all money at all times is invested in something.
i dont make distinction between investment and speculation. some people will try but they're basically moralizing without admitting it. what THEY do = investment. what YOU do is speculation. so when you lose, they can moralize. when they lose, of course, it's always someone else to blame. BitCoin is speculation. It's possible there's nothing to its technology. Or that some other coin passes it. But to say there's no use for decentralized, private personal banking outside govt and (((bank))) control is absurd. Someone(s) will make it happen. |
December 27th, 2018 | #16 |
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Join Date: Oct 2018
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Here is a question for those that self identify as sci-fi sexual:
What was the "money" used by the space travelers in Star Trek, Lost in Space, and Star Wars? When a space person wanted to by some zero gravity tampons at the commissary, what currency did he/she use? If and when a space colony is formed, what would be the currency? Would the space colonist start mining precious metals on their new planet once they landed, or would the go directly to crypto currency? Forming space colonies would mean that that there had been some technology developed to extract energy from nature very easily, so having the energy to mine crypto-coins would be a non-issue. Or maybe it would, since computing system powered by such an energy source would be able to break all existing crypto algorithms and key lengths within short periods of time. This means the crypto algorithms would have to be vastly more sophisticated and/or the keys vastly longer. The real question is, if humans had to start a civilization from scratch, but had computing machines, would they start mining for precious metals or go crypto? [This post is more of a thought experiment, and not a promotion of space travel and space colonies.] |
December 28th, 2018 | #17 |
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I don't know much about BitCoin, but anything that undermines the ZOGbuck, the better.
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December 28th, 2018 | #18 |
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http://blockchain.mit.edu/how-blockchain-works
Visual demo of how a blockchain works (30 minute watch). |
December 29th, 2018 | #19 |
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VentionMGTOW
13 hours ago I'm an old prepper/silver stacker. I just treat bitcoin like another kind of precious metal. I buy some every payday, lock it in the bank box and go on with my life. I doubt I'll ever sell a large percentage of my bitcoins. When the demand for bitcoins increases and they reach the point where it pencils out that I can retire on them, I'll do so. Then I'll sell my paid off house (store the 300k I should get for it, in vaulted gold) and use that as a buffer for the bull and bear markets. When bitcoins are doing well I'll draw my expenses from bitcoins. When they're having a year like this year I'll draw from what I can get for selling the house. I'll keep the amount of bitcoins I cash in under 38,600 a year. Below that level no capital gains taxes are due. I live very comfortably on way less than that right now (income from my mechanic job 4600, spending 1400, and my surplus is usually over 3000 a month). I buy some bitcoin every payday, drop it into the bank box, and it's totally painless. I can keep this up for years if necessary. I love how compact and weightless Bitcoins are. If I needed to travel anywhere on foot with my silver it would be way too heavy to go very far with it, and I certainly couldn't travel overseas with it. With bitcoins however, I could get on a plane, fly to one of these low cost countries and live many years on those bitcoins (even at the current price of 3600), and there's nothing customs can do about it because I wouldn't need to even have them with me. I could just stash them onto encrypted cloud storage and i'm good. LOL, I probably would have done that if Hillary were elected, But as long as Trump is in office I'll stick around, keep fixing trucks for a living, and keep buying bitcoins. |
December 29th, 2018 | #20 |
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