BNP leader in Sweden

Well, you started ranting on about some way off topic crap, evidence that you "lost it."

You call people "psycho" without proof to back that up, when you are not put together all that well.

Originally Posted by Mithras

Well, you started ranting on about some way off topic crap, evidence that you "lost it."

You call people "psycho" without proof to back that up, when you are not put together all that well.

Oh, please.... I gave you an answer to the only little thing you had to hook your attack on the SD on, the stuff about the UN which was your off-topic nonsense, and since you don't know how to reply to my explanation you are just whining now.
And yes, I call him a psychopath and I gave you several examples of why I think he is. You want an explanation you say, but I've already given it -- but it seems like you're ignoring it, so you can keep your comfortable pre-determined opinions.

"Ranting." Give me a break. When you don't have any reply to the things your opponent brings up you can't just start saying "you're ranting" or "you're not put together that well." If you don't have anything to back your claims, then learn to not speak. Right now you're trying to give an opinion on Swedish politics without having any information about it whatsoever, except a few paragraphs from the party websites. And you're arguing with a native, who actually is intimately familiar with Swedish politics. Think about that for a moment: it's like you'd start arguing with an engineer about how to build a jet engine.

And I ask again, and maybe you'll give me an answer this time: what contact do you have, if any, with Swedish parties? Talked to someone on the internet? Met someone irl? Surely there must be some reason for why you think you know the ND is better than the SD? You're not just flipping a coin, are you? And don't give me the stuff about the UN again -- if that's the only thing you've got, then I'm really disappointed.

[Intrepid]

Fredrik,

Are the SD the Swedish party that the bands, e.g., Ultima Thule & Hel, support? That's a unique concept to me, as an American, due to the fact that we have nothing that quite resembles the correlation between music and political parties. At least not of any size or value. Certainly nothing on the scale of, say, Italy, Sweden, Spain et al. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain the phenomenon further?

Also, I've heard that upwards of 35% of Swedish youth listen to "patriotic" music. Is this a viable figure? Is so, that in itself is astonishing to me. It's as if you're cultivating a built-in constituency for future political action. I imagine the Swedish media/establishment has been hostile to this, but then again, I'm just speculating. Do tell.

I don't know what they support, if anything: in the early nineties I know members of Ultima Thule voted both for the socialists and for the anti-immigration New Democracy, which is now basically non-existant. They said so in an interview then. I don't think they have gone out and officially endorsed any party. Hel, their discs are sold by a publishing house that I know quite well and that doesn't endorse any particular party, but there are former SD members in the upper echelons there, and they have had some sporadic ties with different nationalists, from different parties and organizations, not discriminating in who they help publish material.

Hard to say to what percent Swedes listen to viking rock as we call it, but it was very popular in the nineties, popular indeed, and although you don't see as much of it now it's not going away, it's a phenomenon that is here to stay.

35 percent? That would be a reasonable number for the mid-nineties or so, at least for the male side of the population, but today I'm not sure. As for preparation for political action, it has been around for a decade and a half, so what action it inspires should have come already or it's a failed preparation. And indeed, I know for sure that it inspired many who joined the Swedish Democrats in the nineties: music is important, as we all know. Songs about the viking era and the asa gods, and about Carl XII's struggle to defend Sweden from the attacks of Denmark-Norway, Poland-Saxony and Russia at the same time in 1700, and songs about Gustaf II Adolf who won the Thirty Years' War for the northern Germans, and songs about our present time -- this made us connect with our roots, a profound effect indeed.

Typical piece of lyric: "Our future has come and again we must go/ To protect Swedish borders from alien foe/ Once again I stand firm with weapon in hand/ To defend my own soil, to defend my own land"
(Röde orm, Red Serpent)

Or:

"Gods wrathful against giants stand/ Viking marching, proud with sword in hand/ Giant army, dark as night/ Bidding gods to final fight/ Ragnarök, in death forever free! Ragnarök, bring Thule to me!"
(Ultima Thule)

Or:

"Now he sailed away, across desolate seas/ He travelled like a haunting wind/ But for warriors onboard, he made laws and rules/ Listen to his viking creed"
(Ultima Thule)

See? Not always an encouragement to fight: many songs are just about old viking tales. Many upbeat and positive, like:

"Runes have been carved in foreign land/ Over deeds of mine, large and small/ But to win for marriage Karin's hand/ Was the hardest of them all!"
(Völunds smed, Völund's Blacksmith)

And of course:

"King Carl, the young hero/ He stood in smoke and dust/ Drew his sword from his belt/ And entered the fray/ A beardless god of thunder/ Calmly, he stood against Europa/ 'How Swedish steel bites, come let us find out/ Out of our way Moscowites/ Stand bold, my lads in blue!'"
(Ultima Thule)


Ah, Carl XII . . . starting out as a teenager when his father died, he spent his life in the saddle fighting invasions without ever being the first to start a war. He really saved us. British newspapers held him in awe, as his army the Carolins defeated forces many times its own size. And then he was killed by a bullet when overlooking a battle . . . but what a fitting end for the beardless warrior king, who would always fight side by side with his men, and share their meals and quarters. And what a fitting man to dedicate songs to.

I will post here two songs I have translated, to illustrate what kind of music we listen to. It is not at all like the hard rock of American White Power music -- no, with viking rock you can actually hear the lyrics.

The first song is by Ultima Thule, who I have met and who are very nice guys, and the second is by "Svensk ungdom," Swedish Youth, a band sold through the aforementioned publishing house.

Ultima Thule. . . .

The Beast

Hear the cry of the Beast, from the west to the east
Piercing marrow, sinew and bone
Preparing to steal from your hands every meal
Hungring for blood on its throne

Long enough have we slaved for our Beast
Enough is enough today
Long enough have we slaved for our Beast
Enough is enough today

What fathers gave, from cradle to grave
Feed the Beast, never ask for your share
It is ancient and knows, its fire and claws
Tear apart the land in your care

Long enough have we slaved for our Beast
Enough is enough today
Long enough have we slaved for our Beast
New time is coming

Ice in its soul, it devours you whole
Ashes and death where it’s been
Let borders of steel bring the Beast to heel
Protecting our birthright within

Long enough have we slaved for our Beast
Enough is enough today
Long enough have we slaved for our Beast
New time is coming!

Svensk ungdom. . . .

Questions to Father


Do you recall what I never have seen?
Do you imagine what still could have been?
Our people was happy, united as one
But you let it fall, and our dreams came undone

When you once grew up, tell me, what was it like?
Were strangers out looking for women to strike?

Did you walk down the street and listen to tunes
Not from our hills, but from sand-ridden dunes?
Did you ever return to your home all alone
After strangers had beaten you, cut to the bone?

Tell me dad, what was it like to be free?
You staunchly denied what a blind could have seen!
Do you know you were wrong? Did you know all along?
And do you admit where your heart should belong?

For all of your virtues you never found out
What others among you were really about
What you knew as beauty they labeled a curse
Set out to destroy and prepared for much worse

They name all resistance a hateful display
While gangs on the streets are out stalking their prey

And I know they must thank you, and laugh in your face
And smile at a man who must live in disgrace
But you should have known, should have opened your eyes
Shed all your fears and revealed their disguise

Tell me dad, what was it like to be free?
You staunchly denied what a blind could have seen!
Do you know you were wrong? Did you know all along?
And do you admit where your heart should belong?

A new generation of men without pride
Is all that you left when you saved your own hide
Opposing you forces you don't understand
Who wrecked all our dreams and ravaged our land

In this situation we stand all alone
From all of your failures we have to move on!

And I ask you, my father, if you will deny
That we have to fight for what you left to die
And I ask you, my father, if you will accept
Your duty, with whatever pride you have kept?

Now we have to face what you gave us undone
Begin to rebuild, our work has begun!
Will you stand with us now? As you know you must do?
Will you help us to fight for our future anew?

Tell me dad, what was it like to be free?
You staunchly denied what a blind could have seen!
Do you know you were wrong? Did you know all along?
And do you admit where your heart should belong?

Tell me dad, what was it like to be free?
You staunchly denied what a blind could have seen!
Do you know you were wrong? Did you know all along?
And do you admit where your heart should belong?

[Nordblod]

It would appear that Fredrik is quite the little virtuoso when it comes to translations - and I don't like it one bit, no sir, that I don't. Verily, he must destroyed, lest he remain a thorn in my side for the duration of my stay here.

Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne

Oh, please.... I gave you an answer to the only little thing you had to hook your attack on the SD on,

Of course I never "attacked" the SD; you're too stupid or too psycho to realize that.

the stuff about the UN which was your off-topic nonsense, and since you don't know how to reply to my explanation

Making the UN's "human rights" declaration your party's fundamental principle is not off-topic nonsense. Your phoney explanation blamed "the jews" of course, and yet, their proud display of how UN-friendly the SD are is still up on their website. So what am I to think? You're a lying psycho and the party is weak.

[Nordblod]

I'm more inclined to believe that the SD is a lying party and Fredrik a weak psycho.

Originally Posted by Mithras

Of course I never "attacked" the SD; you're too stupid or too psycho to realize that.

Attacked, criticized, simply a matter of different choice of words. So I'm "psycho" now? Right.

Making the UN's "human rights" declaration your party's fundamental principle is not off-topic nonsense.

Aha, is that what you think it is? The party's "fundamental principle"? Then your reaction become a bit more understandable. But it's not a "fundamental principle" in any way, just a statement made at an annual assembly that the party would "support the UN declaration of human rights." It had no practical impact on the party program, which remained just the same as before. The SD's "fundamental principle" is its principle program, in lack of a better translation. And for the second time, it's not "my" party.

I "blamed the Jews"? Show me where. Did you mean when I said the statement about the UN was proposed by a pro-Semite? But that's true, it's no secret. And there was a preparation to expel that guy last December for causing endless quarrels, and so he left as soon he heard that instead of waiting for the expulsion.

"You're a lying psycho and the party is weak." Sure. Kid, stop being so aggressive. You avoid questions continuously here, so let's make it simple:


1. In one post I wrote six sentences about the UN stuff, and when you still didn't understand I wrote eight more sentences. Then you said I was "ranting" and writing "pages" about the matter. Does six and eight sentences constitute "ranting" and "pages"?

2. You say I presented no arguments for my judgment of TP's character. But I wrote that my judgment was based on his spreading of false information, his treason as a member of the SD, and his fits of rage which makes disillusioned members leave the ND, often quit politics entirely. Does that constitute no arguments?

3. You say the SD is bad for softening its words, taking a gradualist approach. But neither the ND nor the SD name the Jew, and both soften their language, only to different degrees. Why do you criticize only the SD for being gradualist, but not the ND?

4. Do you have any sources of information about these parties at all? You're from a foreign country, so the question is not unwarranted. If I joined the debate about whether the BNP are good or bad, the first question to me should be what I know about it, if anything. So do you have any info on these parties, except that you have read some bits from what material they have translated into English on their websites?


And calm down and stick to the facts instead of resorting to name-calling. Otherwise we may as well let the matter drop, don't you think? You're probably a nice kid, but you seem to have a tendency to jump to conclusions without much arguments to base them on.

Once again everything you write is a total lie. I'm now convinced that you are a compulsive liar and a psychopath. I don't believe anything you say about the ND, for that reason. Nor will I respond to any more of your posts (read lies). I have no time for these childish games.

Originally Posted by Mithras

Once again everything you write is a total lie. I'm now convinced that you are a compulsive liar and a psychopath.

*LOL* Okay, now I get it, you're just joking. Right?

Because otherwise this would be the first time, even on an internet forum, that I have seen someone hold a position in a debate without presenting any arguments for it whatsoever. And if you weren't joking you would have told us what sources, if any, you have of Swedish nationalism, and even answered my questions above. Okay then, but make it a little clearer that you're joking in the future.

[Nordblod]

Haven't you figured it out yet, Fredrik? This is the great Tor Paulsson himself you are speaking to here.

Originally Posted by Nordblod

Haven't you figured it out yet, Fredrik? This is the great Tor Paulsson himself you are speaking to here.

Ah, that must be it. *S*

Well, hello there TP, long time no see. My ears have stopped ringing now, so keep the tone conversational this time, okay? All I ask for, itz.

[Nordblod]

Now don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against the ND as such, but it is true that mr Paulsson can be a mite irritating. I remember one of the shindigs that was held by the party; he stood behind a table for cash donations and insisted on eyeballing people. Good way to eventually get into more trouble than you can handle.

[Intrepid]

Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne

I don't know what they support, if anything: in the early nineties I know members of Ultima Thule voted both for the socialists and for the anti-immigration New Democracy, which is now basically non-existant. They said so in an interview then. I don't think they have gone out and officially endorsed any party. Hel, their discs are sold by a publishing house that I know quite well and that doesn't endorse any particular party, but there are former SD members in the upper echelons there, and they have had some sporadic ties with different nationalists, from different parties and organizations, not discriminating in who they help publish material.

Hard to say to what percent Swedes listen to viking rock as we call it, but it was very popular in the nineties, popular indeed, and although you don't see as much of it now it's not going away, it's a phenomenon that is here to stay.

35 percent? That would be a reasonable number for the mid-nineties or so, at least for the male side of the population, but today I'm not sure. As for preparation for political action.


I will post here two songs I have translated, to illustrate what kind of music we listen to. It is not at all like the hard rock of American White Power music -- no, with viking rock you can actually hear the lyrics.

The first song is by Ultima Thule, who I have met and who are very nice guys, and the second is by "Svensk ungdom," Swedish Youth, a band sold through the aforementioned publishing house.

Thanks for the reply. I'm rather familiar with the music, as I have the entire discography of both bands amongest others like: Steelcapped Strength, Enharjarna, Pluton Svea, Frostfodd et al. I'd carried on a lenghty conversation with the gal at Midgard, where I'd purchased a portion of them from. I particularly enjoyed the first Pro Patria album. Very polished, "catchy" stuff, indeed. So as you might gather, I share your sentiments regarding quality. My grandpa was Swedish, so perhaps I'm a bit biased. What do Svensk ungdom sound like? I've never heard of them.

I was simply wondering about their political stances, 'tis all. U.T.voting socialist, eh? Oh yes, you'd made no mention of my query regarding the establishment reaction to the popularity of the music. Did they simply ignore it, did they vilify it, or did they attempt to purchase the production companies involved?


As you'd made inference to earlier in this thread, there appears to be such a leftist theme, at least economically, in many of the Nationalist parties in Europe. Certainly, this is vastly different than most most Paleo and/or WN in the States; why do you believe this to be the case, at least in general terms? Just curious on your read on it.

Hey, a Swedish grandpa! Nice to hear.

Never heard the music of Steelcapped Strength or Enhärjarna I must admit. There are so many bands.

Svensk ungdom sound "polished" too; that is, focus on the lyrics and not on the base. You can listen to some soundbits here

Frågor till far -- Questions to Father
Sverige har fallit -- Sweden has Fallen
Till minne av Daniel Wredström -- In Memory of Daniel Wredström
Daniels sista natt -- Daniel's Last Night

Then some German and English stuff, and then Fyrdung's songs:

Demokrati -- Democracy
Folk i gevär -- People at Arms (actually, "People in Rifle")
Revolt -- Revolt


Yes, the social democratic party is the largest in Sweden, and has kept the country's politics in a nearly unbroken grip for many, many decades. This I attribute to their control of the state-run schools and universities, and a television and radio monopoly that was abolished only at the beginning of the nineties. In other words, they had an almost complete control of the information flow. Workers will vote for them most of the time, even if they disagree with their politics -- even if they grumble for four years after the last election, they cast their votes on the socs the next time as well, because it is the only "real" party to them, the basis of all security and comfort. It's the same all over the West of course, people being tied to one party all their lives.

In our times, with the witch hunts against nationalists, almost the only ones who will dare support it will be workers, who have the least to lose. And so, since they come to nationalism from the socialist party, nationalism will have a socialist color. Basically the socialist part of the message is this: "Our welfare system is destroyed by the large influx of immigrants abusing it."

The nationalist parties know that it is among these voters they can count on the biggest support, so if they are smart their message will be red. (Even though the party leaderships tend to be mixed both left and right, and in fact sometimes have a majority of right-wingers, who nevertheless accept socialist economics, knowing that they can't get everything they wish for)

A strategy somewhat similar to the one used by the old NSDAP, now that I think of it. David Irving describes in his books about Goebbels how he won over "Red Berlin": at a speech he would give the listeners a good dose of socialism, and then tell them how they could have this socialism only with nationalism there to protect it.

Yes, the establishment has attacked viking rock from day one. Symbols are banned from many, if not most, schools -- nazist symbols are simply illegal, but viking symbols are supposedly legal, but not in schools. A few stories I remember from the news: teenagers having their UT tapes confiscated, teenagers being sent home because they were wearing Doc Martens, teenagers not allowed to wear the Mjölner hammer, one or more teenagers not allowed to wear Ultima Thule t-shirts in school. And of course newspapers and other media were filled with stories about the "hateful" music during the nineties, although you could still hear Ultima Thule on the radio every now and then, when people called in to radio shows where you could wish for a song.

No attempted takeovers of the production companies; these were always nationalists who would never sell.

[Nordblod]

Ah, the good old days! I remember in junior high, when we were on cafeteria duty, we always gave everyone a dose of ye olde racist music. Sure, there was some muttering (the principal called us "fascist-minded", or something to that pride-inducing effect), but the issue was never fully addressed. I guess we had the lucky combination of an already "intolerant" small town, and the propaganda machine not yet having achieved the necessary paranoid momentum, to thank for that.

[Intrepid]

Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne

Hey, a Swedish grandpa! Nice to hear.

Yes, in fact, my father would never even mention his mother decended from those obnoxious Scots dear old Queen Mary sent packing to Ulster.

Never heard the music of Steelcapped Strength or Enhärjarna I must admit. There are so many bands.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, they are one in the same... kind of. S.C.S. is the same singer as in Enharjarna. However, in the former he sings in English. The latter is actually better, imo. Here's a link to an interview. http://www.vikingarock.se/intervjuer/enharjarna.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Svensk ungdom sound "polished" too; that is, focus on the lyrics and not on the base. You can listen to some soundbits here

Frågor till far -- Questions to Father
Sverige har fallit -- Sweden has Fallen
Till minne av Daniel Wredström -- In Memory of Daniel Wredström
Daniels sista natt -- Daniel's Last Night

Then some German and English stuff, and then Fyrdung's songs:

Demokrati -- Democracy
Folk i gevär -- People at Arms (actually, "People in Rifle")
Revolt -- Revolt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, I'll check them out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the social democratic party is the largest in Sweden, and has kept the country's politics in a nearly unbroken grip for many, many decades. This I attribute to their control of the state-run schools and universities, and a television and radio monopoly that was abolished only at the beginning of the nineties. In other words, they had an almost complete control of the information flow. Workers will vote for them most of the time, even if they disagree with their politics -- even if they grumble for four years after the last election, they cast their votes on the socs the next time as well, because it is the only "real" party to them, the basis of all security and comfort. It's the same all over the West of course, people being tied to one party all their lives.

In our times, with the witch hunts against nationalists, almost the only ones who will dare support it will be workers, who have the least to lose. And so, since they come to nationalism from the socialist party, nationalism will have a socialist color. Basically the socialist part of the message is this: "Our welfare system is destroyed by the large influx of immigrants abusing it."

The nationalist parties know that it is among the voters they can count with the biggest support, so if they are smart their message will be red. (Even though the party leaderships tend to be mixed both left and right, and in fact sometimes have a majority of right-wingers, who nevertheless accept socialist economics, knowing that they can't get everything they wish for)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's certainly a different political composition than I'm accustomed to. During all three of Pat's campaigns, I'd say 90-95% of the people I came into contact with were middle to lower-middle class folks. Nary a "worker" in sight, primarily small business owners. In essence, salt-of-the-earth angry Whites with a populist streak.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A strategy somewhat similar to the one used by the old NSDAP, now that I think of it. David Irving describes in his books about Goebbels how he won over "Red Berlin": at a speech he would give the listeners a good dose of socialism, and then tell them how they could have this socialism only with nationalism there to protect it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd recently read a book about Austria that dealt with the very same subject in detail. It's amazing how the coalition was built, albeit with the NSDAP already in power there. I'm referring more to the popular consensus in the Ostmark. Speaking of Irving, I had the pleasure of speaking in great length when he came to town last year. As it turned out, I was, for all intents and purposes, the only one in attendance at his speech here. Bad for him, good for me, as I got to pick his brain on a myriad of subjects for some 4-1/2 hours. He recommended a book to me regarding the economic system in place during the 3rd Reich. I believe the authors name was Greenwood or something akin to that. He'd joked that in some 270 pages the author did what would have taken him 1,200 or so. Such a lucid and pleasant gentleman. Damn shame what those bastards have put him through.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the establishment has attacked viking rock from day one. Symbols are banned from many, if not most, schools -- nazist symbols are simply illegal, but viking symbols are supposedly legal, but not in schools. A few stories I remember from the news: teenagers having their UT tapes confiscated, teenagers being sent home because they were wearing Doc Martens, teenagers not allowed to wear the Mjölner hammer, one or more teenagers not allowed to wear Ultima Thule t-shirts in school. And of course newspapers and other media were filled with stories about the "hateful" music during the nineties, although you could still hear Ultima Thule on the radio every now and then, when people called in to radio shows where you could wish for a song.



No attempted takeovers of the production companies; these were always nationalists who would never sell.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd figured as much. Sounds rather like the Rebel flag here. Never heard of a ban on boots, though. Sorry for the odd division in my reply, for I don't know how to how to divide them up.

Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne

Because otherwise this would be the first time, even on an internet forum, that I have seen someone hold a position in a debate without presenting any arguments for it whatsoever. And if you weren't joking you would have told us what sources

Those were their own words, you bloody moron! You are incredibly irritating. You lie more times in such a short space than even the jew himself! Perhaps it's in the blood.