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Old November 16th, 2014 #61
Alex Linder
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jesse and kenneth trentadue

Utah federal judge mulling whether to hold FBI in contempt
By PAMELA MANSON | The Salt Lake Tribune

Nov 13 2014

A federal judge in Utah found Thursday that the FBI’s report on a witness tampering allegation in a case involving Oklahoma City bombing records was incomplete and that the bureau was late in filing it with the court.

But U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups has delayed a decision on whether to hold the Bureau in contempt for the failure.

Waddoups also is still mulling whether to appoint a special master to oversee compliance with court orders in the case, in which Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue is suing the FBI over videos and documents he requested under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). On Thursday, he asked attorneys to submit legal briefs on the issue.

The tampering claim came up during a four-day bench trial in July on Trentadue’s lawsuit, which claims the FBI failed to conduct a search reasonably calculated to locate all requested records in its possession. The FBI has responded that it conducted an "exhaustive" search; Waddoups took the case under consideration and has yet to rule.

On the second day of trial, Trentadue said he had just learned one of his witnesses, John Matthews, who he describes as a former undercover operative for the government, was backing out of testifying after talking to someone with the FBI. According to court documents, Matthews planned to testify that he believed the FBI was monitoring bomber Timothy McVeigh in the run up to the 1995 detonation at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City.

The testimony would have established a motive for the FBI to not conduct a good faith search, Trentadue argues. In a memorandum filed Wednesday, he claims there is a "strong possibility" a surveillance camera recorded a passenger riding with McVeigh in a truck filled with explosives the day of the bombing — and that the videotape "would show the passenger was an FBI undercover operative."

The FBI has denied having any advance knowledge of a bombing plot.

Waddoups had ordered the FBI to investigate whether Matthews was coerced into not testifying and to file a report on its findings far enough in advance of Thursday’s hearing to give Trentadue time to prepare subpoenas, if necessary.

The hearing was originally intended for testimony on the tampering allegation but Waddoups decided last week to discuss the contempt and special master issues because the report had not been completed.

The FBI produced the report the next day, saying the evidence showed there was no witness tampering and asking Waddoups to cancel the hearing. The judge denied the request.

At Thursday’s hearing, Trentadue said FBI personnel conducting the probe never interviewed him or Roger Charles, a freelance journalist and investigator, about their communications with Matthews. Both have said that when they called Matthews during the trial to discuss his absence, the man said he had been threatened by the FBI.

"That’s not an investigation," Trentadue said. "That’s a whitewash."

Department of Justice attorney Kathryn Wyer, who represents the FBI, disagreed that the filing of the report was untimely. She noted Waddoups never gave a specific deadline to turn in the report or a time line for issuing subpoenas.

Wyer also insisted the bureau conducted an appropriate investigation, which proves "beyond a doubt no witness tampering occurred."

Matthews initiated contact with the FBI, she said, and recordings of the conversations show he had decided before he called not to testify and that no on threatened him.

In addition, Wyer claimed Trentadue made up a conversation he had with a former FBI agent that he cited in support of the tampering allegation. Trentadue says he has emails to back up that the talk took place.

Trentadue believes the records he is seeking in his lawsuit contain information about the death of his brother in a federal prison in Oklahoma City a few months after the April 19, 1995, bombing that killed 168 people.

Several investigations by state and federal agencies concluded Kenneth Trentadue, a 44-year-old convicted bank robber, committed suicide by hanging himself from a noose made of torn bed sheets. His family, though, believes the inmate was mistaken for a bombing conspirator dubbed John Doe No. 2 by authorities and that guards strangled him in an interrogation that got out of hand — an allegation that federal officials adamantly deny.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/1812657-1...federal-report

Last edited by Alex Linder; November 16th, 2014 at 09:51 AM.
 
Old November 22nd, 2014 #62
Alex Linder
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THE COVER-UP Former Counterintelligence Officer Calls for Re-Look at Oklahoma Bombing's "Many Unanswered Questions"

By Robert Wenzel
Target Liberty

November 22, 2014

John R. Schindler, a former professor of national security affairs at the U.S. Naval War College, where he taught courses on security, strategy, intelligence, terrorism, and military history, before joining the NWC faculty, spent nearly a decade with the super-secret National Security Agency as an intelligence analyst and counterintelligence officer.

He reports:

After 9/11, as a National Security Agency counterintelligence officer, I was involved in an Intelligence Community re-look at recent acts of terrorism, searching for possible links to foreigners. Oklahoma City was one of these. I quickly discovered, as Rohrabacher’s investigators did a few years later, that the FBI and DoJ had no interest in anyone peeking into the case, which they considered closed, indeed tightly shut. Even in Top Secret channels, avenues were blocked.

In a blog post he highlights the possible role of Andreas Strassmeir:

The most troubling angle is the role of Andreas Strassmeir, a German national who had lived at Elohim City, on-and-off, beginning in 1992. He had come to America in 1989, as an ardent fan of Civil War reenacting — as a Confederate, naturally. He became close with McVeigh, the two having met at a gun show in the spring of 1993, and the latter spoke warmly of “Andy the German,” whom he phoned at Elohim City, where “Andy” was head of security, several times. Strassmeir is by any accounts an odd character. The son of a politically well connected family in Germany, Strassmair served in the German military as a junior officer, including in some intelligence capacity, before becoming immersed in far-right politics. In a pattern seldom encountered in extreme right circles, in Germany or America, Strassmeir was an ardent Zionist who spoke fluent Hebrew and, he admitted, had lived on a kibbutz in Israel.

Although Strassmeir’s connection to McVeigh was known to Federal investigators, the FBI showed a bizarre lack of interest in him or his possible ties to terrorism. As Rohrabacher’s report notes:

For nearly a year after the bombing, the FBI did not interview Strassmeir. Only when he had fled the country was he queried briefly on the phone by the FBI. The agents apparently accepted his denial of any relationship with McVeigh, and there is no evidence of any further investigation into this possible link…

…Strassmeir — who seems to be the key to much of the remaining mystery surrounding OKBOMB — appeared to be an intelligence source, and possible agent provocateur, for as many as three different intelligence services, all of which are known to watch neo-Nazi activities in the United States with interest.

The investigation will have to remain there, unsatisfactorily, until somebody decides to resume it. The twentieth anniversary of the Oklahoma City atrocity will soon be upon us. It would be good if a serious re-look at OKBOMB’s many unanswered questions were established for the event. With every passing year, the chances of clearing up the case grow more difficult; eventually it will be impossible. The public deserves to know the full story of this terrible crime.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/11/r...bing-cover-up/
 
Old December 27th, 2014 #63
Meg Kafka
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Unfortunately, IMHO its basically impossible to be absolutely certain who is behind what these days because its almost impossible to have the necessary facts much of the time.

Newtown, 911, Pat Tillman, Bin Laden, massive cover ups even if they happened as advertised.

The situation is so dire that 90 percent of Americans believe Ohomo was born here even with circulating pictures admitting he was a foreign student on an ID card at Columbia.

I like to ask "who benefits"? Generally when you see who benefitted most you can find out who created it.
 
Old April 8th, 2015 #64
Samuel Toothgold
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Default Bedfellows F.B.I. apparatchiks, Cuntgress and Limp Chimp wring paws together to invent a replacement "Public Enemy #1":

Smaller countries function better. Just look at Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Iceland. That's why seccessionism is fought tooth and nail. Entities like EU, TTIP and Sino Economic Imperialism know this and act accordingly, gobbling up each victim nation's decision-making souvrenity. When distances are shorter, it's easier and quicker for a flash mob to storm pork barrel regimes, drag out the greasy suit & tie Fatsos and place them onto the gallows or insert them into the guillotine and then film it all for posterity's future archives.

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/4/7...s_drought_film

Quote:
...Most people would be shocked to learn that animal rights and environmental activists are the number one domestic terrorism threat according to the FBI...

...There is a tremendous amount of repression activists face for blowing the whistle against this industry. There is a series of ag-gag laws that have been passed around the U.S. that criminalize exposing the atrocities being committed against animals and the environment on factory farms. And this is because the government and this industry work hand-in-hand oftentimes. The government — this industry is so powerful, it can put pressure on Congress to pass legislation that doesn’t benefit consumers...
__________________
youtube.com/watch?v=-EDJRcwQvN4 youtube.com/watch?v=S0lxK5Ot5HA
youtube.com/watch?v=HFv92Lc8FXg

Last edited by Samuel Toothgold; April 8th, 2015 at 03:09 AM.
 
Old April 20th, 2015 #65
Kurt Krug
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jewsign Joe Davidson, Nigguh Outta DC

Thinks he's King with his rhetoric against veterans of Operation Desert Storm:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...00b_story.html

Hush, Hush, Joey Boy!
 
Old April 25th, 2015 #66
Robbie Key
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Exclusive: Oklahoma City Bombing Breakthrough, Part 1 of 2
April 22, 2015 by Roger Charles

Two decades have passed since the April 19, 1995, Oklahoma City bombing. It was the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in American history, and 168 people died, including 19 children.

The attack on the Murrah Federal Building was said to be the work of Timothy McVeigh and two confederates, described as right-wing extremists with an anti-government agenda. McVeigh was executed by lethal injection and Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier were given prison sentences.

Now, however, major cracks have appeared in the federal government’s story—a story long considered by some victims’ families to be little more than a stonewall of mendacity and distortion. New revelations suggest that the government may be covering up prior interactions between intelligence services and the accused. In this way, Oklahoma City poses some of the same questions raised by 9/11 and the Boston Marathon Bombing—other national security traumas where Washington has worked hard to block potentially devastating disclosures.

***

Probably the most significant new development is multiple confirmations of past allegations that a German intelligence operative with ties to one or more US agencies, Andreas Strassmeir, aka “Andy the German,” had a close and extensive relationship with McVeigh.

Based on 19 years of active investigation by this reporter—including hundreds of interviews, over two score field trips, and unique access to critical documents—information presented herein leads to a hugely important finding: the FBI was aware of the Strassmeir–McVeigh relationship and was monitoring McVeigh’s activities at a never-before-revealed level approaching “close surveillance.”

Contrary to Strassmeir’s long-standing claim, endorsed by the Department of Justice, that he and McVeigh had a single, brief, inconsequential meeting at a Tulsa, Oklahoma, gun show two years before the bombing, several credible sources assert the relationship was far more substantive.

If correct, that could fundamentally alter Americans’ understanding of the way their government goes about protecting American lives—or, in the case of Oklahoma City, failing to… with tragic results.

“Andy the German”: an informant for certain, maybe a provocateur

A very senior retired CIA official, speaking on background to me in 2006, said he had read an in-house study examining whether the Agency had any “exposure” in OKBOMB (the FBI Major Case name for the bombing investigation).

While the study cleared the US spy agency, it identified a German intelligence operative as being involved. This individual was Andreas Strassmeir. According to my source, although the CIA report stated that Strassmeir worked for the German government, it also said that the intelligence he was collecting on McVeigh had been shared with the FBI.

Strassmeir came to the United States and became active in right wing and neo-Nazi circles, ultimately becoming security director of Elohim City, an extremist “Christian Identity” enclave in eastern Oklahoma. Run by the “Reverend” Robert Millar, a cunning manipulator who also served as a Cooperating Source for the FBI—think “Whitey Bulger of the Ozarks”—Elohim City was a major way-station for neo-Nazi and other white supremacists who in 1983 declared war on what they termed the Zionist Occupation Government (ZOG). Strassmeir began living there in August 1991.

But he did not fit the profile of an angry social misfit living in the pinewoods. His father had been a high-level apparatchik in the German national government, and his brother was a Berlin city councilman. Strassmeir himself had served in positions of authority in the German Army.

***

In March 1997, as McVeigh’s trial was unfolding in Denver federal district court, the Department of Justice provided his defense team with a large dump of discovery materials. These included reports from interviews by FBI agent Robert Blecksmith with officials in seven “federal government law enforcement and intelligence agencies to determine if ANDREAS CARL STRASSMEIR was ever a cooperating witness or confidential source.”

The subject of these interviews was raised by McVeigh’s principal defense attorney, Stephen Jones. He wanted to know if Strassmeir ever had any kind of relationship with any federal agency.

Six entities—Customs, Defense Intelligence Agency, Internal Revenue Service, National Security Agency, Secret Service, Drug Enforcement Agency and the U.S. Marshals Service—responded that they had found no relevant records. (Interestingly, no request was made of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), which would have had an interest in weapons activities at Elohim City.)

But the response of the CIA’s Office of General Counsel was quite different. Attorney Linda Cipriani revealed only that she had provided to DOJ attorney Beth Wilkinson “the results [of a records search] to determine if Strassmeir, white male date of birth 5/17/59, had ever worked for or been affiliated with her agency.” But that did not answer Agent Blecksmith’s question.

Note that Cipriani did not declare unambiguously, as did six other federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies, that there was “no record or information indicating that Strassmeir” had any relationship with those agencies.

Understandably, McVeigh’s attorney was eager to learn exactly what had turned up in that CIA records search on Strassmeir. But that information was never disclosed. Jones requested that the presiding judge, Richard Matsch, order DOJ to share the information presented it by the CIA, but Matsch refused to do so.

***

So, were McVeigh, Nichols and Fortier disgruntled domestic terrorists operating on their own? Apparently not, according to one long-time FBI Confidential Informant (CI).

Shortly after the April 19, 1995, bombing, John Matthews, a CI targeting right wing and neo-Nazi groups (but expressly forbidden to target OKBOMB-related information), reported to his FBI handler information relevant to McVeigh. Matthews recounted how, a few years before the Oklahoma City attack, he had attended a weekend training session in Austin, Texas, for a suspect paramilitary group. While at this meeting, Matthews met two ex-soldiers, introduced as “Tim” and “Andy.”

In the post-bombing media deluge, Matthews realized that “Tim” was Timothy McVeigh, When Matthews related his information about “Tim” and “Andy the German” to Don Jarrett of Phoenix, his FBI handler, Jarrett responded, “We know, John. Don’t worry about it. We got it covered.”

Newsweek confirmed this statement, and others, by Matthews in preparing its November 28, 2011, cover story on white supremacists.

Further corroboration of extensive interactions between McVeigh and Strassmeir come from Bill Buford, the retired former head of the Little Rock ATF office. Buford said on the record that he knew of both verbal and written reports putting McVeigh at Elohim City. He also stated that while none of this material was provided to the defense teams in discovery, it was included in an FBI summary report sent to DOJ.

Additionally, FBI Agent James Carlile, has said on the record: “…McVeigh had been in there [Elohim City] and probably tried to recruit somebody… ”

Why is Strassmeir Important?

Strassmeir has always been the enigmatic key to understanding the Oklahoma City bombing. His crucial role began to be documented in August 1994, when the Tulsa, Oklahoma, ATF office recruited as a paid Confidential Informant a Tulsa debutante who had become involved in white supremacist activities after surviving a near-assault by several African-American males. Designated CI-183, Carol Howe gained ready access to Elohim City, visiting almost weekly and staying on occasion for several weeks until a short time before the bombing. Howe got to know Strassmeir well.

Less than a half year before the Oklahoma City bombings, Tulsa ATF issued a remarkable report. In its November 1994 monthly Report of Investigation (ROI) on Howe’s activities—sent both to the regional ATF office in Dallas and directly to ATF headquarters in Washington (signifying a very high-profile case)—it described Strassmeir as follows:

He was born in 1959 and served in the West German military starting in 1979. He was an infantry officer. His plans are to forcibly act to destroy the US Government with direct actions and operations such as assassinations, bombing and mass shootings. He believes the biggest enemy to be the United States Government (ZOG).

Tulsa ATF targets Strassmeir

The Oklahoma City bombing story is significant on many levels. One important aspect is what it shows about the welter of agencies that are as often investigating and arresting each other’s shadowy operatives as they are cooperating. Nowhere is this more apparent than in regard to Elohim City, where several of the key “extremists” may well have been government agents unwittingly egging one another on.

This kind of compartmentalization, while perhaps understandable in intelligence operations, nonetheless can lead to tragedy. That may be what happened in the case of Oklahoma City, when ATF’s efforts to nab the German were thwarted by other entities.

Here’s what happened, as reconstructed from documents and interviews.

Within two weeks of ATF’s report on Strassmeir, David Roberts, Resident Agent in Charge (RAC) of the Tulsa ATF, set in motion plans to raid Elohim City and arrest the German. He would, it was assumed, be held as a “criminal alien” (having an expired visa) in possession of firearms. Strassmeir’s illegal possession of firearms—(a felony under 18 US Code 992(g)—triggered ATF jurisdiction.

Contemporaneous records of the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) show that in early December 1994, Tulsa ATF requested a “certificate of non-existence of lawful permanent residence” from INS headquarters in Washington. A January 5, 1995, INS record stated that Tulsa ATF “request [INS] participation in Raid – next month.” (Prior to the reorganization leading to establishment of the Department of Homeland Security, INS was a part of Department of Justice, and ATF was an agency of the Department of Treasury.)

On February 16, 1995, ATF headquarters formally certified that no paperwork existed to back up Strassmeir’s “lawful admission to the United States as an immigrant.” He was now fair game for arrest in a joint ATF/INS raid.

While INS’s wheels were slowly grinding in Washington, Tulsa ATF accelerated pre-raid preparations. On February 7, its agents conducted an aerial reconnaissance of Elohim City, using an Oklahoma State Highway Patrol aircraft and pilot. The ATF Report of Investigation (ROI) for February stated, “Both photographs and video were taken.”

(ATF Tulsa records during this time begin to show an increasing concern to withhold what was seen as very sensitive information. But, the bane of any such effort—too much paper, too widely distributed—does allow for a relatively complete picture of these crucial days and events.)

Now that INS had certified Strassmeir as an illegal alien, Tulsa ATF requested that Oklahoma Highway Patrol issue a “BOLO” (Be On the Look Out”) for “Strassmeir. Titled, “BOLO for Security Chief at Elohim City Compound,” and naming “Andreas Strassmeir” as the target, it stated:

—Came to USA in 5/91, passport was good until 8/91. He never left the country. INS says he does not have an extension on his VISA.



—Carries a .45 auto pistol at all times.

—He is an illegal alien, ATF wants to be notified if he is stopped and has the gun on him. They will file the charges.

—Contact: [information for CI-183’s ATF handler was listed]



These plans were brought to a sudden halt. To find out why—and what happened next—please see Part II of this piece.

http://whowhatwhy.org/2015/04/22/exc...h-part-1-of-2/
 
Old April 25th, 2015 #67
Robbie Key
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Exclusive: Oklahoma City Bombing Breakthrough, Part 2 of 2
April 23, 2015 by Roger Charles

Not So Fast, ATF

As noted in Part 1 of this 2-part series, in early 1995, Tulsa Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents were eagerly preparing for a highly anticipated raid on the radical right-wing enclave of Elohim City—and the arrest of the shadowy figure Andreas Strassmeir, aka “Andy the German.”

Then, suddenly those plans were dramatically and suddenly halted. The abrupt about-face was recorded in a Report of Investigation (ROI) for February 1995:

On February 22, 1995 this agent met with OHP [Oklahoma Highway Patrol] Trooper Ken Stafford [the pilot who had flown the AFT team on the February 7 aerial reconnaissance] to exchange certain information regarding this investigation. Trooper Stafford indicated that the FBI also had an ongoing investigation regarding Elohim City. (Emphasis added.)

Near panic gripped federal law enforcement agencies in Tulsa. An extraordinary meeting took place later that day between ATF RAC David Roberts and the local US Attorney, Steve Lewis. The meeting violated strict bureaucratic protocol whereby Lewis would normally not have deigned to meet with a lowly RAC, and would have met only with Roberts’ Dallas-based regional ATF boss.

The left-hand and the right-hand of federal law enforcement targeting Elohim City finally became aware of each others’ investigations, and Lewis’s meeting with Roberts had one immediate and three follow-up consequences:

—ATF terminated its investigation and the planned arrest of Strassmeir

—ATF terminated CI-183 (the Tulsa debutante) as a paid Confidential Informant.

—ATF terminated its investigation of White Aryan Resistance (and Elohim City).

—The FBI continued its investigation at Elohim City, unimpeded by the ATF.

(A planned visit to Elohim City by CI-183 for the week of March 5-11 did not take place, or, if it did, no records of the visit have been released).

In September 2001, six years after the bombing, David Roberts told CBS 60 Minutes II producer Mary Mapes in a not-for-record telephone call the following, never-before-public information:

—the Oklahoma City bombers came out of Elohim City

—the FBI had a snitch in the middle of the bombing conspiracy

—the FBI took over sole investigation of Elohim City to protect its snitch.

This writer was working as a consultant to 60 Minutes II on September 8, 2001, and made notes of Mapes’s telephone call to an attorney representing Terry Nichols, the man who was charged and convicted as McVeigh’s partner in the Oklahoma City bombing. A planned visit with Roberts and his attorney in Tahlequah, Oklahoma, for September 12, 2001, did not take place due to the 9/11 attacks. Subsequent attempts to arrange an on-the-record interview with Roberts have been unsuccessful.

Saving Strassmeir’s Ass (and the FBI’s)

Two days after the bombing, a joint FBI-ATF team interviewed CI-183. It’s worth quoting the FBI report of this interview at some length, including intentional misspellings:

EC’s [Elohim City] Security Officer is STRASMEYER, an illegal alien from Germany who is a former West German Infantry Officer.

… STRASMEYER has talked frequently about direct action against the U.S. Government.) He is trained in weaponry and has discussed assassinations, bombings and mass shootings…

MEHAUN [Dennis Mahon, a long-time major figure in the national white supremacist movement and one-time FBI informant, currently serving time for a letter bomb in federal prison] has talked with CAROL [CI-183] about targeting federal installations for destruction through bombings, such as the IRS Building , the Tulsa Federal Building and the Oklahoma City Federal Building… [Note: CI-183 later said this text was wrong. Strassmeir the German had mentioned the three specific buildings, not Mahon. This would not be the first time that the FBI has burned a lesser important snitch to protect a more valuable one.

… MEHAUN and STRASMEYER has taken three trips to Oklahoma City in November, 1994, December, 1994, and February, 1995. CAROL only accompanied the group once, in December, 1994…

Note that last paragraph: here is the FBI reporting that Strassmeir and Mahon, his White-Aryan-Resistance buddy, took three reconnaissance trips to Oklahoma City in the months before the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building, a structure which one or both had reportedly spoken about destroying.

Elohim City is only 170 miles from Oklahoma City, so one might think that after the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building, with the above information in FBI files, Strassmeir would be, if not first, at least in the top-most group of the FBI’s list of persons of interest. In fact, reasonable minds might expect that Strassmeir qualified as a full-fledged “suspect.”

But that was not how the FBI saw it. There is compelling evidence the FBI actually aided and abetted Strassmeir’s return to Germany (in January 1996), without his having been even informally questioned, much less officially interviewed.

Subsequent to Strassmeir’s return home, the FBI responded to some press interest by releasing two short, superficial trans-Atlantic telephone interviews with Strassmeir (conducted on April 30 and May 1, 1996). These interviews completely ignored the information in the April 21, 1995, joint FBI/ATF interview of CI-183, and should go down in history as one of the Bureau’s greatest investigative embarrassments.

Alternatively, the Bureau may see it as a great success: for twenty years, its snitch, Strassmeir, along with the Bureau itself, avoided any accountability for his role in an attack that murdered 168 American citizens.

With Strassmeir safely back in Germany, the US Department of State’s Counterterrorism Division issued a “Protective Intelligence Bulletin” making Strassmeir ineligible for a return to the US, in case someone like a congressional committee might want to interview him here.

Tulsa ATF called CI-183 back into snitch service

While agencies of the federal government covered their tracks and protected Strassmeir in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing, ATF Tulsa obtained approval for the emergency reinstatement of CI-183 as a paid Confidential Informant “in order to aid in the Oklahoma City Bombing investigation… ”

In another document, Tulsa ATF justified its request to the Dallas Field Division for “Advance of Funds,” listing as “Suspect’s Name and Address”:

Elohim City

Robert Millar

Adair Co [County], OK.

In the block, “Explain/Justification” is this handwritten text:

This investigation involves the Bombing of the Murrah Bldg. in Oklahoma City, OK. It is suspected that members of Elohim City are involved either directly or indirectly through conspiracy. It is suspected that suspect #2 [the elusive John Doe 2] may be at the location. Funds will be used for CI-subsistence, expenses travel… “

The Tulsa ATF ROI for May 1995 states CI-183 traveled to Elohim City and stayed there for three days, and after this visit CI-183 was taken again to Oklahoma City for “debriefing” by ATF and FBI agents. (No records have surfaced from either FBI or ATF files of this debriefing.)

CI-183 reported that one Elohim City resident said, “There is a big secret out here,” and that other individuals there “were supportive of the bombing of the building in Oklahoma City.”

ATF Tulsa planned to send CI-183 back to Elohim City “in order to determine what the ‘big secret’ is and to attempt to identify suspect #2,” but this trip was canceled after CI-183 received warnings from an Elohim City resident that CI-183 “had better not go to Elohim City.”

These warnings were reinforced on May 24 when Tulsa ATF RAC David Roberts told CI-183’s handler that, “Robert Millar suspected CI-183 of being a confidential informant.” Most likely, Millar’s suspicion was based on information from his FBI handler in what proved to be a successful effort to head off an ATF investigation of Elohim City and its central role in OKBOMB.

With every anniversary of the Murrah Building bombing, the mainstream media run touching tributes to the victims and their families. But as memories of the tragedy fade, so does the possibility of peeling back the fašade of a cover-up that has served to keep some “inconvenient” truths from the American public.

http://whowhatwhy.org/2015/04/23/exc...h-part-2-of-2/
 
Old May 16th, 2015 #69
Hunter Morrow
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I am not sure if this has been posted already, but governments like to try to force through bills and laws to exploit attacks and tragedies. Its the reason for false flags like OKC to begin with.

This is a pretty good series of questions about OKC, but 29 sums up why it happened quite nicely.

http://www.rense.com/general10/30.htm

Quote:
29. Why was the reaction of the Clinton administration, blaming right-wing radio talk shows for the incident and demanding the most draconian police state legislation ever proposed in the United States, so swift and obviously organized?

A blizzard of OKC-inspired "domestic terrorism" bills were rushed into Congress in a matter of days, some of them pre-written and already printed up BEFORE THE BOMBING. These proposed laws cover everything from banning virtually all privately owned firearms to unlimited and court-admissible Federal wiretaps to censorship of the Internet to the suspension of habeas corpus in "terrorism" cases to the grotesque destruction of the First Amendment advocated in Charles Schumer's bill H.R. 2580, which imposes a five-year prison sentence for publicly engaging in "unseemly speculation" and publishing or transmitting by wire or electronic means "baseless conspiracy theories regarding the Federal government of the United States". Who decides what is a "baseless conspiracy theory'? Why, the very same government, of course.

How was a normally cumbersome, inefficient, and glacially slow legislative branch able to move so quickly, so comprehensively, and so efficiently in introducing these laws which will strip Americans of what remaining freedoms they have?
Here is the attempted "Republican Form of Government Guarantee Act" that was attempted, basically the PATRIOT Act before the PATRIOT Act.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...nt-detail.html
 
Old May 16th, 2015 #70
Patrick Bateman
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So why would McVeigh take all this to his grave? Why would he allow himself just to be killed without exposing it all? Did he believe those working with him were his friends and not actually informants? Even to his death by lethal injection? So McVeigh was just a hired government goon? I'm a little confused about all this.

According to the video above McVeigh is still alive??

Listen at -

https://youtu.be/Vgfi1QZILxk?t=54m19s

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; May 16th, 2015 at 05:16 AM.
 
Old September 17th, 2015 #71
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I don't condone McVeigh's actions in the least. Bombing buildings is just plain wrong. I was entrusted to defend my nation, the USA, against all enemies, foreign and domestic, when I was in the United States military.

Now it seems these days that we have minorities such as Hispanics who try to ally themselves with each other and try to gain scarce resources that they may not deserve.

Face it, none of us are going to emigrate to Mexico to work in the Mexican Government, and turn around and steal jobs away from hard-working Mexicans because we want a better life in Mexico. It just doesn't happen.
 
Old February 1st, 2019 #72
Robbie Key
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Watching his interview with 60 Minutes, I seriously doubt that would've been televised today. He comes across as thoughtful and serious. He would've been treated like Breivik.

One of the victim's parents also comes forward with a request that he tell who else was involved. Very short clip. But that is interesting.

"Timothy McVeigh's trial included hours of wrenching testimony from victims describing the carnage after the explosion. Through it all, McVeigh sat stone-faced. McVeigh: I was raised in an environment where men don't cry. You hold it back, one of the things a guy learns, is to hold back tears. You don't let it be shown."

Last edited by Robbie Key; February 10th, 2019 at 05:05 PM.
 
Old February 1st, 2019 #73
Reynolds
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Alex
Thank God our threads aren't 20 pages long! A complete hoax! This is part of thread I did on Stormfront https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1263866/.


1995 Oklahoma Bombing: "Multiple Bombs Removed Inside"


This event is one of the rare events in history (like the JFK assassination, or 9/11) that presents, with overwhelmingly conclusive evidence, the opportunity for people to discover the extreme nature of the evil forces that control our government and society.

Summary

The bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995 was a false flag attack and black operation carried out by criminal elements controlling and within the US Government. The main purposes of this operation were the following: 1) the pretext for "anti-terrorist" and other legislation granting the government vast new "police state" powers (increasing the funding, size, and power of agencies like the ATF, FBI, etc), and 2) the demonization and attempted destruction of the modern right-wing "militia movement"

Brief Outline of Key Evidence

1) Local news channels and press around Oklahoma City reported on the fact that multiple unexploded bombs were diffused and removed from the Murrah Building after the bombing. Local reporters, the US Justice Department, and even Oklahoma Governor Frank Keating all initially confirmed (on the day of the bombing) the fact that unexploded devices were diffused and removed from inside the building. This information was subsequently hushed up by the national media, and has since been buried.

2) The damage to the Murrah Building could not have been caused by an ANFO bomb on the street, per the official story. The Murrah Building was destroyed by bombs placed inside the building. Only bombs placed on the structural columns could have partially collapsed the building as it did, not an ANFO bomb located across the street. Furthermore, blast debris was blown out and away from the building, not into it, as would occur with a truck bomb located on the street. This was proven in a report by explosives expert Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, USAF (Ret.) in 1995.

3) Eyewitnesses and other evidence confirms that there were multiple blasts that caused the damage, not one explosion. Numerous eyewitnesses testify to hearing at least two separate explosions. (See here, for example)

4) As testified to by witnesses and reported on local news channels in Oklahoma City, the BATF, which had offices in the Murrah Building, had prior knowledge that the bombing would occur. They had vacated their offices in the building on the morning of the bombing.

5) Timothy McVeigh was a patsy, who was a Government operative, likely in military black ops.

Last edited by Reynolds; February 1st, 2019 at 08:38 PM.
 
Old February 1st, 2019 #74
Reynolds
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This is the video that convinced me something was amiss.

 
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