Discussing New Rules for 2016 Forward (Real Names Only for New Users)

[Whitelands]

First and second names?
Would you like phone numbers and addresses too?

How will you implement this, how can you be sure any new members who join will use a real name?

Is VNN going to become like facebook?

Edit to add;

USN (usual suspects network) has similar protocols for registering there, is this what you have in mind for this forum but public?

http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/forum.php

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Alexander M.

How do you know if you are getting a real name when people sign on for the forum?

I'll ask them to give me something that's plausible. That's all. Over time people tend to talk about their lives, give details. If they start going off in a crazy direction where it looks like they were lying, that will become apparent.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by JeffreyWaffenSS

that is part of my real name, and I admire Der Fuhrer. I know you're not a big fan of National Socialism.

I don't see what the big deal is having an imagine of a great man as my avatar. maybe people on Stormfront have it and other NS stuff in their avatars.

The problem is you have WaffenSS in your name. You weren't a member. You wouldn't qualify. You drag them down by association, while pretending to admire them. And worst of all, you don't understand any of this. Or you're an anti. It's just lose-lose-lose all the way around.

To the other guy, we had a rule about using normal names. Not real ones. Now we're going for real ones.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Whitelands

First and second names?
Would you like phone numbers and addresses too?

How will you implement this, how can you be sure any new members who join will use a real name?

Is VNN going to become like facebook?

Edit to add;

USN (usual suspects network) has similar protocols for registering there, is this what you have in mind for this forum but public?

http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/forum.php

First and last names. They can send me a url or some plausible evidence they are who they claim. That's all.

[Alex Linder]

Notice - people have from October thru December to sign up under existing rules. Watch how many do. Will there be a surge? I doubt it. It's been at the same level for years. Most who sign up don't even post.

[Crowe]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

What do you think people think when they see your avatar and name?

I've been saying for awhile now that Jeffrey is a troll. You've probably seen his typical "nazi loser who can't get laid" caricature which is the label the ADL would slap on each of our foreheads. Not only that, but he has a fascination with non vaginal penile explorations and reads cosmo. I'd strongly recommend banning this faggot. He's not posting as an anti, he's illustrating a jew contrived stereotype about people in the movement, and that's why he is a troll. When someone on the internet is looking for a quote to illustrate "white supremacist losers", they're going to quote Jeffrey on VNN.

[Zorost]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

Good example of what I mean. A pseudo-argument: if anything good happened while most whites were xtian, it's attributed to christianity. I have specifically answered this claim probably 1000x, but people like you never, ever notice anything.

It's a bit more than a coincidence when the Pope says, "go kill the infidel in the Holy Land and your sins are forgiven" and then people go kill the infidel in the Holy Land. "Go kill the infidel in Hispania and your sins are forgiven," and people go to kill the infidel in Hispania. The medieval popes also preached against the jews, and had a hand in the Spanish Inquisition. The Klan invoked religion back when they actually did stuff.

More below.

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

The typically stupid conservative view: ideas don't matter. It's just 'words on paper.' Is that how jews look at it? No. Are they running things? Yes.

That's not what I said at all. Ideas and culture are very important; words are only a faint reflection of ideas. Take 1000 random christians who believe totally in the Bible and I bet very few believe the same thing. Ditto for the Constitution. It is only a few pages long, it is the foundation of our legal and political system, yet huge numbers of people assume huge amounts of things are in the Const that aren't, and don't know a bunch of other things that are in it. They construct their ideal society in their heads, then assume that whatever is written is congruent with those ideas. Words on paper are not that important, it is the ideas in peoples' heads that are.

The point being that modern Christians who have been subjected to a jewed version of Christianity are not indicative of what Christianity really is... because there is no such thing as real Christianity, it is whatever people think it is.

The reason I think this is important is because it is much easier to recruit/ convert someone to a similar belief to what they already hold than to a set of beliefs that is antithetical to what they currently believe. There are Biblical arguments out there for why Christians should be WNists. it would be much easier to get Christians on our side using those arguments than to deprogram them and then re-brainwash them with WNist ideas.

Ideally we wouldn't need to make up nonsense and we could just debate reality, but most humans don't seem to be built that way.

Originally Posted by Robbie Key

If we are to attribute those things to 'christianity', why should we discriminate against arabs and africans? If Christianity is the sole answer to the reason we Whites built great cathedrals, defended our lands against muslims or conquered the entire world, then why are Christian arabs or africans a problem? No. Religion doesn't matter, it's all about race. The White race built the cathedrals, not 'Christianity'. Africa hasn't built anything impressive since Christianity made its way into there.

There are so many straw men in that paragraph that it is a fire hazard.

It isn't just race, it is also culture which includes religion. Why did some white Europeans build cathedrals and not others? Why did they do so when they did, and not before or later? Why did whites 1000 years ago go out en masse to kill invaders 1000 miles away, while nowadays people stay at home watching them move in next door on TV? Same race, different results. Why? Culture/ religion.


======
Alex:
I withdraw most of my arguments, as I didn't quite see what you were trying to do. I was responding on the assumption that you wanted a large successful website, but now I see that instead you want an online think-tank. I look forward to contributing as best I can.

[Robbie Key]

Originally Posted by Zorost

There are so many straw men in that paragraph that it is a fire hazard.

It isn't just race, it is also culture which includes religion. Why did some white Europeans build cathedrals and not others? Why did they do so when they did, and not before or later? Why did whites 1000 years ago go out en masse to kill invaders 1000 miles away, while nowadays people stay at home watching them move in next door on TV? Same race, different results. Why? Culture/ religion.

It's you and the Christian dogs who use strawmen all night along. Do you truly believe that if the White man had, say, converted to Islam instead of Christianity, not built great, beautiful mosques? Or defended their lands (ye olde Charles Martel)? Or experienced an 'Islamic Golden Age' (the Islamic counterpart to the Renaissance) which the Arabs still talk about?

By the way, Whites are going out to kill non-Christians 1000 miles away even today. Remarkably often it is Christians doing it for a Zionist cause.

[Sean Gruber]

Originally Posted by Zorost

because there is no such thing as real Christianity, it is whatever people think it is

But ideas are important. Yeah.

Originally Posted by Zorost

it is much easier to recruit/ convert someone to a similar belief to what they already hold

What belief?

Originally Posted by Zorost

There are Biblical arguments out there for why Christians should be WNists.

We need Biblical arguments for some reason, even though every person makes up his own Bible.

Originally Posted by Zorost

Ideally we wouldn't need to make up nonsense and we could just debate reality, but most humans don't seem to be built that way.

And there it is. The admission that Christianity is a trick. Is lying Biblical? Sure, what isn't?

The idea is that there are zillions of tards who don't believe anything but like to go church and hear the name "Jesus" a lot. So we gotta say "Jesus" a lot too, so as not to scare them off.

Pathetic.

Originally Posted by Zorost

I was responding on the assumption that you wanted a large successful website, but now I see that instead you want an online think-tank.

"I thought you wanted to be successful, but now I see you want to think."

Clearly we need a Jesus atomizer. At certain points in our arguments, we would mash the bulb and that familiar Jesus aroma would perfume WN and soothe the cattle. Because White men are just built that way, you see. Psss! Jesus! Psss! Jesus!

It's like the couple I saw abusing their two-year old child. Whenever they spoonfed him, they would say "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" And the kid smearing the food on his face would respond, "Jebus, Jebus, Jebus!" The whole house filled with pics of Jebus. No doubt the kid will grow up physically but will not be able to rid his Pavlovian-fuxxed nervous system of that special twitch it does when the magic word is pronounced. I don't think this kind of people is a majority of Whites or that we need them.

[Crowe]

Originally Posted by Zorost

The medieval popes also preached against the jews, and had a hand in the Spanish Inquisition.

They only sought to convert jews, not kill them. Some of the ones who didn't convert might have been burned, but they didn't treat Whites who didn't convert any better. Your Semitic expansionist religion needs to be put in the dumpster where it belongs. Christianity has zero redeeming qualities. Former choir and alter boys can take their candy asses back to stormfront.

[Alyss]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

You're like a stereotype of WN-as-loser. You realize that?

In fact, the character you are, or are pretending to be, is precisely what we will get away from with the new rules. In fact, we had gotten away from it 90% under the old rules.

Another one is C1 18 AUSTRALIA -PAT is the guys VNN don't want to contract.... They bring WN down.

[Sam Emerson]

Glenn Miller says that when he was running his White political party he found that if he got enough men marching in the street there was a tipping point where new guys would spontaneously come out of their houses and join in.

That psychology probably applies online as well. The first movers are going to face the most pressure, so will need to be "power invulnerable" in terms of secure income or savings as well as being immune from the kind of attacks that are used against guys like Craig Cobb and (just found this out) Weev, who was a known WN when he was prosecuted and convicted on trumped up computer crime charges. Weev claims he was financially secure, having sold a business, but they got him by other means.

Then again, Weev was acting like Al Capone, bragging about his exploits to the enemy media. So was Cobb, come to think of it. So it's vital to secure your source of income (or have enough to retire) and avoid legal pitfalls if you're going to take point.

[Zorost]

Originally Posted by Robbie Key

It's you and the Christian dogs who use strawmen all night along. Do you truly believe that if the White man had, say, converted to Islam instead of Christianity, not built great, beautiful mosques? Or defended their lands (ye olde Charles Martel)? Or experienced an 'Islamic Golden Age' (the Islamic counterpart to the Renaissance) which the Arabs still talk about?

By the way, Whites are going out to kill non-Christians 1000 miles away even today. Remarkably often it is Christians doing it for a Zionist cause.

So to counter my accusation of using straw man arguments, you use more straw man arguments...

Please quote where I say that whites needed Christianity and only Christianity to build anything or to do anything.

Originally Posted by Sean Gruber

But ideas are important. Yeah.



What belief?

[Whatever one works. Restated: It is much easier to change "I believe that the Bible says Jesus loves everyone!" to "I believe the Bible says Jesus loved whites and hated Jews!" than it is to change the first to "The Bible is wrong and Jesus was a jew and didn't exist anyway, and for some other reason I also believe in WNism." ]

We need Biblical arguments for some reason, even though every person makes up his own Bible.

[We need to make it up for them. Actually, it's already been done, by many different people. ]

And there it is. The admission that Christianity is a trick. Is lying Biblical? Sure, what isn't?

[You just now figured out that I'm not a devout Christian?]

...

"I thought you wanted to be successful, but now I see you want to think."

Clearly we need a Jesus atomizer. At certain points in our arguments, we would mash the bulb and that familiar Jesus aroma would perfume WN and soothe the cattle. Because White men are just built that way, you see. Psss! Jesus! Psss! Jesus!

It's like the couple I saw abusing their two-year old child. Whenever they spoonfed him, they would say "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" And the kid smearing the food on his face would respond, "Jebus, Jebus, Jebus!" The whole house filled with pics of Jebus. No doubt the kid will grow up physically but will not be able to rid his Pavlovian-fuxxed nervous system of that special twitch it does when the magic word is pronounced. I don't think this kind of people is a majority of Whites or that we need them.

Aaaaaand we are back to believing I'm a Christian because I disagree with you.

You went in an odd direction.

In hind sight I see that what I wrote about the future plans for VNN could be seen as snarky, but it wasn't intended that way, at all. I'm actually getting fired up about it. My perception is that Alex is going in a different direction, that there is a different paradigm for defining success. Most forums define success by numbers of users, # of posts, or unique logins, or whatever. I see that he is abandoning that paradigm (if he ever had it to begin with) of a 'large successful website with a forum' for one of a 'small successful think tank which just happens to be in the form of a forum.' Different goals, different definitions of success.

[Vance Stubbs]

It seems nuts to me to think that a hyper-marginalized 1% of the population with no mass media presence and very weak organizational abilities could go about tricking people into... I don't even know, agreeing with us? Voting for us? Giving us money? By pretending to be Christians or Beaver Cleavers or the White NAACP or whatever.

But in any case, if the strategy was effective VNN would be superfluous. Stormfront has done far more in that line of thinking than VNN ever could. No point in having divisions without differences.


Ultimately, what does this plan cost? Worst case, no one new signs up for six months. A pretty minor drawback.

[Ironguard1940]

I have been on this forum for over ten years as Ironguard1940. Most members and guests here know my real name is Walter and I live in the Richmond, VA area and that I am a bona fide White Nationalist. Having said that, if I am required to change my username to my real name then I have no problem doing that.

[Vance Stubbs]

You wouldn't have to change your name, but if you wanted to use both you could change your title (currently "Senior Member") into your real name and keep Ironguard1940 as your user name.

[White Brazilian Boy]

I have send my face to some members for sub-race analysis,so I don't really care about being discovered or not. The truth is I want everybody to know my views and fuck the consequences.

[Jim Conway]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

If we go to new names only, we discourage the time wasters. We encourage people to get themselves in position to be able to use their real names. If you can't use your real name because you fear the jews will get you fired, or for some other reason, then that shows that you need to work on gaining your financial (or other) independence more than you need to be commenting on a website anonymously.

I'm also going to demand that potential new posters here join with some explicit purpose in mind. Something they will track or report on that will make their joining a genuine new-good thing for the forum.

It's going to be a while until I am in a position of financial independence and that is not to say I'm not working on it (hence why I signed up now). I agree with the intention behind your decision, nonetheless.

I like the other idea you mention here, about posters having an explicit purpose. To me, this would do more to eliminate the bullshit than having people post with their real names. Is this task something the member would choose or based on what is needed? I don't know if you have gotten that far yet.

[Wednesday Owens]

Originally Posted by JeffreyWaffenSS

The problem with using your real full name is people from the ADL and that fucking fat bitch Heidi from SPLC troll these sites and will track you down and get you fired especially if you're a teacher or something.

Hey Heidi. I know you're reading this. Fuck you you fat ass bitch!!

Your insult means nothing from your position of anonymity.

If she tracks you down, it only means something if you say it to her face. if and when she does you are operating from a severe disadvantage due to the fact you may well be White as you have claimed. Know your arguments, know your rights.

As Alex said earlier [paraphrased], only people using their real name should be able to insult someone using their real name.

It's not a game.

[Jimmy Marr]

Originally Posted by Jim Conway

Is this task something the member would choose or based on what is needed? I don't know if you have gotten that far yet.

I feel confident in saying that Alex has gotten that far and he definitely wants forum members who will take the initiative in choosing and following their own callings in these matters. In fact, many here are already performing more or less specialized functions according to their personal interests without making any formal declarations thereof. That is perfect.

The last thing on earth Alex would want to do is personnel management, and that is not to say that he would prefer to delegate the task of personnel management to someone else. Alex's dream of a perfect world is one in which White men and women take maximum responsibility for their own lives.

That, in my opinion, is what Alex considers the quintessential Aryan characteristic and the one he hopes to select for with his real name prospectus.