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Old July 27th, 2012 #1
Crowe
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Default Completely alienating Christians isn't a wise move.

I'll admit that I'm not a Christian, nor do I believe in any of that nonsense personally. But we shouldn't be seeking to alienate them with our message. Last time I checked most White people are Christian, and if we tell their their religion sucks, even if its the truth, then that is just one more hurdle we have to climb over before we can get to the bottom of the real issues. As soon as you offend their religion, then they are going to be against whatever the rest of your message is.

Many of our predecessors who succeeded where we have failed have understood that you couldn't alienate a large % of the population, and expect to get positive results. Hitler sought to encourage "Positive Christianity", today I might classify that as someone who is Christian but is also against Jews.

We are better off just keeping religion out of the message.
 
Old July 27th, 2012 #2
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I'll admit that I'm not a Christian, nor do I believe in any of that nonsense personally. But we shouldn't be seeking to alienate them with our message. Last time I checked most White people are Christian, and if we tell their their religion sucks, even if its the truth, then that is just one more hurdle we have to climb over before we can get to the bottom of the real issues. As soon as you offend their religion, then they are going to be against whatever the rest of your message is.

Many of our predecessors who succeeded where we have failed have understood that you couldn't alienate a large % of the population, and expect to get positive results. Hitler sought to encourage "Positive Christianity", today I might classify that as someone who is Christian but is also against Jews.

We are better off just keeping religion out of the message.
The problem is that a Christian's first loyalty is to their Jewish god, not to their race.

Christianity, more than any other factor, is responsible for getting us into the mess that we are in right now.
 
Old July 27th, 2012 #3
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The problem is that a Christian's first loyalty is to their Jewish god, not to their race.

Christianity, more than any other factor, is responsible for getting us into the mess that we are in right now.
Technically I agree with all of that. I'm looking at it from the perspective of "My skin is my uniform", and "An enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Any Christians in the WN movement aren't supporting Jews. Even if their religion was founded on Jewish principles.

Its a division that needs to be overcome if we are going to make any progress. Us just telling them their religion sucks isn't going to win any of them over.

I used to be militantly anti-Christian, and have sense changed my mind and have came to the conclusion that I should keep my personal views on religion out of what is best for the movement.

Instead of completely slamming their religion, I am going to try and turn them against their Jewish masters. Sometimes I wish that Christians were as militantly against Jews as Muslims are, and then we would have a much easier time getting a coalition together against Jews. The one thing I can say about Muslims is at least they know who their enemies are.

You know I WISH our greatest problem was political and religious disagreements, but anyone who lives in reality knows that isn't the case. These CI people, I would be delighted if they were to find their own little area of the US, and form a group, free of Jewish threats, but that doesn't mean I have to join them or live their ideology. Political and religious disagreements could simply be solved by segregating based on political ideology and religion. But that would only work if Jews weren't vehemently trying to exterminate the White race. I'm a National Socialist, so naturally I'd refuse to live under a Libertarian Democracy, if I had a choice in the matter. But all those problems can be settled AFTER we deal with the Jewish problem.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #4
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Technically I agree with all of that. I'm looking at it from the perspective of "My skin is my uniform", and "An enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Any Christians in the WN movement aren't supporting Jews. Even if their religion was founded on Jewish principles.

Its a division that needs to be overcome if we are going to make any progress. Us just telling them their religion sucks isn't going to win any of them over.

I used to be militantly anti-Christian, and have sense changed my mind and have came to the conclusion that I should keep my personal views on religion out of what is best for the movement.

Instead of completely slamming their religion, I am going to try and turn them against their Jewish masters. Sometimes I wish that Christians were as militantly against Jews as Muslims are, and then we would have a much easier time getting a coalition together against Jews. The one thing I can say about Muslims is at least they know who their enemies are.

You know I WISH our greatest problem was political and religious disagreements, but anyone who lives in reality knows that isn't the case. These CI people, I would be delighted if they were to find their own little area of the US, and form a group, free of Jewish threats, but that doesn't mean I have to join them or live their ideology. Political and religious disagreements could simply be solved by segregating based on political ideology and religion. But that would only work if Jews weren't vehemently trying to exterminate the White race. I'm a National Socialist, so naturally I'd refuse to live under a Libertarian Democracy, if I had a choice in the matter. But all those problems can be settled AFTER we deal with the Jewish problem.
Christian WNs are only Christians because they are intellectually deficient.

They don't really love Jesus or Yahweh - the Jewish/Christian "God" - they are afraid of them.

They are afraid that Yahweh is real, that hell is real, and that they will go to hell if they stop trying to convince themselves that he is real.

Deep down inside Christian WNs actually hate this Jewish god and his bastard half-mortal son, because they are Jewish.

It is an internal source of embarrassment to them, which they live with in a state of internalized shame.

"If only I could have complete and total assurance that the Jewish god is not real and that Jesus is only a dead Jew that will never come back and send me to hell if I don't bow down and worship him!" they think to themselves.

But because they have been brainwashed to believe it is real since earliest childhood, there can never be any assurance for them; so they continue on worshiping and secretly hating the Jew god they have been taught to believe in, because of the possibility in their mind that hell might be real.

That is the difference between a Christian WN and a regular Christian.

Regular Christians, some of them, actually have some sort of genuine heartfelt love for the Jewish deity and his "only begotten son" incarnate.

Some of them (perhaps a majority) might doubt he exists, but they still worship him out of fear; but don't hate him because of his Jewishness the way Christian WNs do.

WN Christians are not only intellectually retarded, they are cowards.
 
Old August 4th, 2012 #6
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http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=144171&page=2

Atheist WN who want political power need to adopt the approach of De Toqueville, who said that governments do not support religion because it is true, but because it is useful.

Faiths by definition are not provable, or they would not be called faiths. Whilst there are many posts criticising Christianity, I don't see posts on how atheists expect to become or remain the goverment in a White society where the majority of people are religious.

Atheist WN are not and never have been a factor anywhere in the world or in recorded history as far as creating or running White countries are concerned.

The real question is how atheist WN with no power, no money, no influence, no members and no structures expect to achieve anything without the support of the maority of Whites who are Christians, and why atheists think Christians won't kill them if they try to threaten Christians or their beliefs.

Christian WN created every White country and White nation that exists today.

As we speak, Christians and Jews together have killed around 4 million Iraquis, and around a million Afghans, and are involved in overthrowing several dozen other non Christian states governments.

Christians have fought wars in the Middle East for over 2000 years to gain control of the trade routes and minerals there.

Hitler was put into power by the Christian vote and by Christian money, and when he failed, Christians proceeded to rebuild Germany from the rubble into the superpower it is today.

The only organisations that own more property than churches are governments. Religious organisations are the largest global corporations, and have outlasted empires, countries and even nations.
Some have existed over 2000 years, and more churches get built all the time.

Whilst Christians no longer even need to go to church, since they have their own TV channels, own radio channels, they are now turning to small housemeetings, and hold intense bible study sessions, often several times per week, as they find church Christianity today too weak, and want a more fanatical religion .
Anyone who's ever actually gotten involved with mainstream activities involving large numbers of Whites knows Christians dominate just about every NGO and political party there is.

Christians at the moment in the US are fat, comfortable, and lazy. Take away their money and comfort, and they will simply take whatever they want and kill any who object.
They want Israel to exist, so Muslim Palestinians can't control Palestine, and from their financial and physical support, clearly support Jews driving out Palestinians, and support Jews calling for war against Muslims.

WN need to become relevant, and deal with the world as it really is.

Most people clearly need religion, and right or wrong, religion has been their guide for millenia.

The only way to stop Christianity is to replace it with another belief, as well as with another infrastructure that provides the same services it provides, from orphanages to retirement homes to schools to hospitals to charities. At this point, there aren't any, so any WN plan needs to include working with Christians.
Those that don't simply aren't relevant.

Christians are the most effective, ruthless killers on the planet, and have been for centuries.

Take a good, long, hard look at who is physically dropping the bombs and pulling the triggers in the Middle East. It's Christians. If atheist WN think Christians would not simply execute them if they become troublesome, then they are not living in the reality based community.

Do atheist WN seriously think that they will be able to govern any significant number of Whites without Christian support?
Not even the most stupid politicians try that for long, those that do, get removed by a panicked party leadership.

Jews in the USSR massacred Christians, confiscated their property, destroyed churches and tortured and killed priests for 7 decades. Those they didn't kill, they put into gulags.
How did that work out?





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Old August 4th, 2012 #7
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How'd the christians fare in Russia against a tiny minority of atheist jews?

How do the christians fare as a 90% majority against jews in good ol' USA?

Nuff said.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #8
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Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
I'll admit that I'm not a Christian, nor do I believe in any of that nonsense personally. But we shouldn't be seeking to alienate them with our message. Last time I checked most White people are Christian, and if we tell their their religion sucks, even if its the truth, then that is just one more hurdle we have to climb over before we can get to the bottom of the real issues. As soon as you offend their religion, then they are going to be against whatever the rest of your message is.
The jews treat the christians like shit, and the christians bend over backwards to praise them and fight their wars.

When you treat christians like men, all you do is incur their disrespect. Abuse them and they'll love you.

Yet again I repeat: take your tips your clues your cues from winners, not losers.

What am I trying to do? How do the people who succeed at it do it? Gee, maybe I should see if I can copy their method.
 
Old July 30th, 2012 #9
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The jews treat the christians like shit, and the christians bend over backwards to praise them and fight their wars.

When you treat christians like men, all you do is incur their disrespect. Abuse them and they'll love you.

Yet again I repeat: take your tips your clues your cues from winners, not losers.

What am I trying to do? How do the people who succeed at it do it? Gee, maybe I should see if I can copy their method.
Looking back in the past I see leaders like Hitler who managed to control the Christians or at least guide them in a positive direction. We can simply placate them and guide them down a path, which will eventually lead to this Jewish religion dying out in a generation or 2. Its a problem that can't be solved overnight. Do you think Hitler would have gotten as far as he did if he completely alienated Christians?

The Christians who are getting treated like shit, and are still pro-Jewish are the sheeple. There are some of these people who half way wise up, but still maintain their religion, and these should be the people we should seek to acquire in the movement.

You should ask Rounder how many Christians he had in his ranks. He managed to guide them toward more positive goals. Do you think he would have gotten as many people as he did if he completely alienated their religious beliefs?

Christians aren't the cream of the crop or the sharpest tools in the shed, but if they are rallied toward more positive goals they go out in the street and support the cause, and can be good soldiers on the street. If we can get men out in the street representing the White race and its interests, I honestly couldn't care if they are Christians or not.

Linder, I can tell you right now, being from Kentucky that if a movement started in this area that was Anti-Christian, the crickets would be chirping, and you would likely be getting into fist fights with fellow Whites over the message. That kind of message, and that kind of movement, simply wouldn't work here. Something like what Rounder did might very well work here.
 
Old July 30th, 2012 #10
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Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
Looking back in the past I see leaders like Hitler who managed to control the Christians or at least guide them in a positive direction. We can simply placate them and guide them down a path, which will eventually lead to this Jewish religion dying out in a generation or 2. Its a problem that can't be solved overnight.

The Christians who are getting treated like shit, and are still pro-Jewish are the sheeple. There are some of these people who half way wise up, but still maintain their religion, and these should be the people we should seek to acquire in the movement.

You should ask Rounder how many Christians he had in his ranks. He managed to guide them toward more positive goals.

Christians aren't the cream of the crop or the sharpest tools in the shed, but if they are rallied toward more positive goals they go out in the street and support the cause, and can be good soldiers on the street.
They all need lobotomies.
 
Old July 30th, 2012 #11
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They all need lobotomies.
Would you go out in public, stand on a podium, tell them they worship a Jew on a stick, that died, and they need lobotomies? You say you live in Dixie, how well do you think that would go over with the locals?
 
Old July 30th, 2012 #12
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Would you go out in public, stand on a podium, tell them they worship a Jew on a stick, that died, and they need lobotomies? You say you live in Dixie, how well do you think that would go over with the locals?
Like a lead balloon; but then, so would telling them that the American government and most of our society is controlled by an ethnic group that only accounts for 2% of America's population.

If I told them that Jews are not White, they would shake their heads and walk away.
 
Old July 30th, 2012 #13
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Would you go out in public, stand on a podium, tell them they worship a Jew on a stick, that died, and they need lobotomies? You say you live in Dixie, how well do you think that would go over with the locals?
Not well at all. The issue of Christianity and Whites is not an easy one to resolve. Hacking loogies on them collectively isn't exactly the answer from a political pov, even though it might be satisfying from an emotional pov.
 
Old July 30th, 2012 #14
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How do you figure out that "most white people are christian?" Most white people are atheists, non-believers or couldn't give a f***ers.

Most white people don't give a monkeys, in my experience. They have other, more pressing things to worry about then a spirit in the sky (oh great, now I'll be Tourrettes'ing that all day) and handing over their hard earned to one of the richest institutions in the land on the promise that a mythical ghost from an alien religion will save them.

If people don't have the sense to see that the whole thing is bullshit, why do we want to save them? You can argue a christian into a corner with facts and figures and prove to them that christianity isn't theirs and they still won't see the light.
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Old July 30th, 2012 #15
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How do you figure out that "most white people are christian?" Most white people are atheists, non-believers or couldn't give a f***ers.

Most white people don't give a monkeys, in my experience. They have other, more pressing things to worry about then a spirit in the sky (oh great, now I'll be Tourrettes'ing that all day) and handing over their hard earned to one of the richest institutions in the land on the promise that a mythical ghost from an alien religion will save them.

If people don't have the sense to see that the whole thing is bullshit, why do we want to save them? You can argue a christian into a corner with facts and figures and prove to them that christianity isn't theirs and they still won't see the light.
With all due respect, Bev, the apathetic attitude that Britons have in regard to Christianity is hardly representative of the attitudes held by the majority of Americans, many of whom are convinced that Yahweh is real and that "Jesus is coming soon, so you better get ready and get right with the Lord!"



Last edited by Steven L. Akins; July 30th, 2012 at 11:26 AM.
 
Old July 30th, 2012 #16
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How do you figure out that "most white people are christian?" Most white people are atheists, non-believers or couldn't give a f***ers.

Most white people don't give a monkeys, in my experience. They have other, more pressing things to worry about then a spirit in the sky (oh great, now I'll be Tourrettes'ing that all day) and handing over their hard earned to one of the richest institutions in the land on the promise that a mythical ghost from an alien religion will save them.

If people don't have the sense to see that the whole thing is bullshit, why do we want to save them? You can argue a christian into a corner with facts and figures and prove to them that christianity isn't theirs and they still won't see the light.
That might be the case in England, but I live in what they call the "Bible belt" in the USA. Its 95% Christian here. You know how nutty it is in my area? There is a Seventh Day Adventist Church 2 miles down the road from me. And another Church 10 miles the other way that are the Snake handling Xians.




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Jesus said if you believe in Him that these signs will follow you. Healing the sick, taking up snakes, drinking poison, casting out devils, speaking in unknown tongues.
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Mark 16:15-20 And he ( JESUS) said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


Lu 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

1co 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Just when you think it can't get any nuttier.....

Anyway, welcome to Dixie.
 
Old August 4th, 2012 #17
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Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
Looking back in the past I see leaders like Hitler who managed to control the Christians or at least guide them in a positive direction. We can simply placate them and guide them down a path, which will eventually lead to this Jewish religion dying out in a generation or 2. Its a problem that can't be solved overnight. Do you think Hitler would have gotten as far as he did if he completely alienated Christians?
Hitler was in an extremely urgent situation. He planned ultimately to phase out christ-insanity, and he came down hard but not hard enough on christ-crank preachers. They still were undermining him every step of the way.

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The Christians who are getting treated like shit, and are still pro-Jewish are the sheeple. There are some of these people who half way wise up, but still maintain their religion, and these should be the people we should seek to acquire in the movement.
Wrong. We should force the issue. Either you're with us, or you're against us. If men aren't strong enough to understand the inherent contradiction between the christian and racialist worldview, then they're not worth worrying about. Overlooking their jebus cult affiliation merely means it will emerge at the very worst time - when they come under pressure and are looking for somewhere to flee.

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You should ask Rounder how many Christians he had in his ranks. He managed to guide them toward more positive goals. Do you think he would have gotten as many people as he did if he completely alienated their religious beliefs?
I'm not sure where you get the idea that being unprincipled and compromising attracts anyone worth having.

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Christians aren't the cream of the crop or the sharpest tools in the shed, but if they are rallied toward more positive goals they go out in the street and support the cause, and can be good soldiers on the street. If we can get men out in the street representing the White race and its interests, I honestly couldn't care if they are Christians or not.
You don't care because you don't understand what you're doing. You think, like most, that ideas don't really matter. It is precisely thinking like yours that keeps our movement stillborn. WN = conservatism = Fox News = jebooism = why bother?

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Linder, I can tell you right now, being from Kentucky that if a movement started in this area that was Anti-Christian, the crickets would be chirping, and you would likely be getting into fist fights with fellow Whites over the message. That kind of message, and that kind of movement, simply wouldn't work here. Something like what Rounder did might very well work here.
If that's the case, then we have no hope. Fortunately, it isn't.
 
Old August 5th, 2012 #18
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You should ask Rounder how many Christians he had in his ranks. He managed to guide them toward more positive goals. Do you think he would have gotten as many people as he did if he completely alienated their religious beliefs?
I should have avoided religion altogether, including saying prayers at meetings. The vast majority of WPP members would have understood why because I'd have explained that religion is too divisive - Baptists disagreeing with Methodists, Lutherans disagreeing with Adventists, etc, etc, etc. Squabble, squabble, squabble. I should have also explained that the WPP was a political party for all white people, regardless of their religious beliefs or their lack of any.

A few xian fanatics would have quit, but not many. And perhaps more would have joined when they learned there'd be no talk of religion during party gatherings.

Dr Pierce had the right idea about avoiding religious problems in active, membership organizations.
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Old August 5th, 2012 #19
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I should have avoided religion altogether, including saying prayers at meetings. The vast majority of WPP members would have understood why because I'd have explained that religion is too divisive - Baptists disagreeing with Methodists, Lutherans disagreeing with Adventists, etc, etc, etc. Squabble, squabble, squabble. I should have also explained that the WPP was a political party for all white people, regardless of their religious beliefs or their lack of any.

A few xian fanatics would have quit, but not many. And perhaps more would have joined when they learned there'd be no talk of religion during party gatherings.

Dr Pierce had the right idea about avoiding religious problems in active, membership organizations.
I agree, but there is a difference in just not talking about religion and going out of your way to be as offensive as you can be to Christians. One will get you somewhere but the other will just make enemies out of people who could be your allies.

I feel like the tone on these forums toward Christians isn't productive. I have my own personal views about Christianity, which is mostly negative, but I wouldn't let that get in the way. Even though I think Christ was a Jew on a stick, I wouldn't go spouting that when trying to make friends and allies. The way I worded that might make it sound like I'm a hypocrite, but with me its about not letting your personal opinions get in the way of moving forward toward solutions for the bigger problems at hand. And that is the only reason I made this thread.

Christians can potentially be fanatically against anything Jewish, they have been in the past. Its a double edged sword, but I'd at least like to see them using the right edge, because we won't be rid of Christians any time soon.
 
Old August 5th, 2012 #20
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I agree, but there is a difference in just not talking about religion and going out of your way to be as offensive as you can be to Christians. One will get you somewhere but the other will just make enemies out of people who could be your allies.

I feel like the tone on these forums toward Christians isn't productive. I have my own personal views about Christianity, which is mostly negative, but I wouldn't let that get in the way. Even though I think Christ was a Jew on a stick, I wouldn't go spouting that when trying to make friends and allies. The way I worded that might make it sound like I'm a hypocrite, but with me its about not letting your personal opinions get in the way of moving forward toward solutions for the bigger problems at hand. And that is the only reason I made this thread.

Christians can potentially be fanatically against anything Jewish, they have been in the past. Its a double edged sword, but I'd at least like to see them using the right edge, because we won't be rid of Christians any time soon.
Anti-Jewish sentiment was mostly a Catholic phenomenon. Protestants have always been very pro-Jewish, always will be. Not only do Protestant Christians fervently believe that the Jews are "God's chosen people," historically they have sought to emulate the Jews, which is why Hebrew names have always been hugely popular with Protestants - Jacob, Elijah, Ezekiel, Levi, Ephiram, Ebenezer - the Protestants saw themselves as Israelites building a New Jerusalem.

If you can convince Protestants that the Jews are not "God's chosen people" then you can convince them there is no "God."
 
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