Vanguard News Network
VNN Media
VNN Digital Library
VNN Reader Mail
VNN Broadcasts

Old November 21st, 2007 #61
NS Cat
Senior Member
 
NS Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: In the barn hunting for jew rodents
Posts: 1,539
NS Cat
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick MacThomas View Post
For up close and personal, a revolver is best every time.
A revolver will never jam and .38 special has killing power.
You can also leave a revolver loaded for long periods of time without having to worry about spring compression in the magazine.
There will also be no spent brass at the scene, which gives the ZOG troopers less physical evidence to work on.
.32 in auto has less hitting power than a .22. Look it up. .32 and .25 are useless calibres.
The smallest self-loading pistol calibre to consider is 9mm, but that is significantly inferior to .38.

A pistol is not an offensive weapon.
It is something you draw to either (a) kill yourself to prevent capture, or (b) as a weapon of last resort at close quarters.
In such situations, reliability and killing power are the primary considerations.
Go for a .38 with the longest barrel you think is appropriate to your concealment situation. The longer the barrel the more time the powder spends burning behind the projectile, so the more killing power it has.
Why are .25 and .32 worse than 38 special?
What about .380/9mmkurz?
Why is 9mm worse than .38?

You said look it up but most gun sites do not have reliable and truthful information.

Also if the magazine spring is compressed for long periods of time(magazine full for a long time) will it weaken and fail.
__________________
Niggers are the anchors that White people feel compelled to drag around. - Flame Baiter

Jews from their lips

Tolerance=White Death

Last edited by NS Cat; November 21st, 2007 at 06:05 PM.
 
Old November 21st, 2007 #62
T.J. McAllister
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 224
T.J. McAllister
Default

9x19mm is not "worse than .38". In it's best loadings it ranks alongside the better .40 and .45s.
 
Old November 21st, 2007 #63
TwistedCross
Smart Ass White Boy
 
TwistedCross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,137
TwistedCross
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NS Cat View Post
Why are .25 and .32 worse than 38 special?
What about .380/9mmkurz?
Why is 9mm worse than .38?

You said look it up but most gun sites do not have reliable and truthful information.

Also if the magazine spring is compressed for long periods of time(magazine full for a long time) will it weaken and fail.
.25 and .32 are have very small projectiles with little powder behind them. A .38 is larger with much more stopping power.

You cant always tell by the diameter of the projectile, for instance .223 is what is used in ar15/m16 but you know it is superior to a .25 which has a larger diameter bullet.
__________________
'My country is changing all around me. This is not the country that my forefathers built. It must be because those brown-skinned people are coming in and destroying it.' - Mark Potok the racist

VNN: for entertainment purposes only.
 
Old November 21st, 2007 #64
J.Hartman
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 79
J.Hartman
Default

Quote:
Also if the magazine spring is compressed for long periods of time(magazine full for a long time) will it weaken and fail.
Spring cycling (loading and unloading) is what weakens springs. I have had pistol and rifle magazines loaded for several years with no failures.

One extreme case was my fathers 1911, he lost a magazine...found it in a closet with some ammo...the spring had been compressed for at least 20 years. The magazine and the ammo worked fine.

TwistedCross nailed the question about ammo, it is about powder...how much velocity a projectile can acheive with the amount of propellant (gunpowder).

The 9mm has a smaller case..it can only hold so much powder, and the bullet sizes are limited. A .38 can hold more powder and handle a heavier bullet. Same with the .32 and .25...small cases = small amount of powder. They work and work well. but if you have a choice and can handle the recoil of a heavier round I would go for it.

All that being said...I have on occasion carried a "pocket .25" (small colt), usually in the summertime. I practice with it regularly and use hollowpoints....is it my first choice? NO but it serves its purpose.
 
Old November 21st, 2007 #65
NS Cat
Senior Member
 
NS Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: In the barn hunting for jew rodents
Posts: 1,539
NS Cat
Default

I made a mistake in my previous question,

Let me repeat it.

Why are .25 and .32 worse than .22lr?
What about .380/9mmkurz?
__________________
Niggers are the anchors that White people feel compelled to drag around. - Flame Baiter

Jews from their lips

Tolerance=White Death
 
Old November 22nd, 2007 #66
Sean Martin
......
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,397
Sean Martin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NS Cat View Post
I made a mistake in my previous question,

Let me repeat it.

Why are .25 and .32 worse than .22lr?
What about .380/9mmkurz?
Actually a 25 auto has an advantage over a 22lr, which is why they are still being made and are popular. They have a centerfire primer instead of a rimfire primer, which makes them more reliable. They also have a larger diameter bullet. They do have less penetration but unless a person is being attacked by zombies or a group of bikers that plan to fight to the last breath, I don’t see someone continuing the fight amidst a hail of 25 auto bullets bouncing off his skull.

The fact is a lot of people get killed with very small caliber weapons. A 25 auto while underpowered will likely be on your person. Also a lot of kwaps carry a 380 for a backup gun. I think the 380 is the most useless caliber ever made but it is popular with a lot of people.

There is a huge misconception about carry guns. The most important thing is you have a gun on your person. Unless you are entering drug covens or expecting swat to nail you on the street any caliber gun will stop any assault you encounter. People think you need a gun that will be able to reach out 50-100 feet. The fact is if the attacker is more than 5-10 feet from you then you will go to prison. If you can’t hit someone at 5-10 feet with a small caliber or a snub nose weapon then you don’t need a gun in the first place.



Also when it comes to penetration, I took a 25-auto pocket pistol out once and shot a 2x4 at 21 feet. Not only did I hit the 2x4 but every round fully penetrated it. If you can hit a 2x4 you can hit a person. If the round will penetrate a 2x4 it will penetrate a person as well.
__________________
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...64&postcount=9
Doppelhaken, Draco, Richard H, ToddinFl, Augustus Sutter, Chain, Subrosa, Jarl, White Will, whose next?

Last edited by Sean Martin; November 22nd, 2007 at 01:55 AM.
 
Old November 22nd, 2007 #67
NS Cat
Senior Member
 
NS Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: In the barn hunting for jew rodents
Posts: 1,539
NS Cat
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
Actually a 25 auto has an advantage over a 22lr, which is why they are still being made and are popular. They have a centerfire primer instead of a rimfire primer, which makes them more reliable. They also have a larger diameter bullet. They do have less penetration but unless a person is being attacked by zombies or a group of bikers that plan to fight to the last breath, I donít see someone continuing the fight amidst a hail of 25 auto bullets bouncing off his skull.

The fact is a lot of people get killed with very small caliber weapons. A 25 auto while underpowered will likely be on your person. Also a lot of kwaps carry a 380 for a backup gun. I think the 380 is the most useless caliber ever made but it is popular with a lot of people.

There is a huge misconception about carry guns. The most important thing is you have a gun on your person. Unless you are entering drug covens or expecting swat to nail you on the street any caliber gun will stop any assault you encounter. People think you need a gun that will be able to reach out 50-100 feet. The fact is if the attacker is more than 5-10 feet from you then you will go to prison. If you canít hit someone at 5-10 feet with a small caliber or a snub nose weapon then you donít need a gun in the first place.



Also when it comes to penetration, I took a 25-auto pocket pistol out once and shot a 2x4 at 21 feet. Not only did I hit the 2x4 but every round fully penetrated it. If you can hit a 2x4 you can hit a person. If the round will penetrate a 2x4 it will penetrate a person as well.
Ok so the .25acp has less penetration than the .22 but it is bigger right?
What about the .32? It is bigger and has more penetration than both the .22 and .25 right?

Why is the .380 the most useless round? What round should be used instead to do its purpose better?
__________________
Niggers are the anchors that White people feel compelled to drag around. - Flame Baiter

Jews from their lips

Tolerance=White Death
 
Old November 22nd, 2007 #68
Sean Martin
......
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,397
Sean Martin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NS Cat View Post
Ok so the .25acp has less penetration than the .22 but it is bigger right?
What about the .32? It is bigger and has more penetration than both the .22 and .25 right?
The 32 is bigger but I wouldn’t say for sure it has more penetration than a 22lr. Also the advantage of a 22lr over both 32 and 25 is cost, availability and Varity. There are many different types of 22lr’s rounds but there is only a handful of 25’s and 32’s and both are difficult to come by these days. I think the only gun store around here that carries 32’s has to special order them.

Quote:
Why is the .380 the most useless round? What round should be used instead to do its purpose better?
I don’t like it. Cost is one thing. I guess like the 45 auto it is a personal thing. For a backup gun it is good but I think there are better calibers such as the 9x19 and the 9x18. They make some nice pocket 9x19’s these days. I carried a $32 25 auto Raven for years and it never failed me. Also it was always on my person. The only thing I didn’t like about it was it didn’t have a hammer so I couldn’t carry it chambered. Dad’s had a hammer that could be safely carried chambered and at half cock, that is the gun he carried for around 2 decades.

Also on both guns we left the magazines fully loaded and they never failed. Dad still has his 25 auto and the magazine is still fully loaded and it functions flawlessly. I miss the days of $30 nickel plated 25 auto’s.

One of the most important things is availability. You want a cartridge that can be easily found. The top on the list of handgun cartridges is 22lr, 38sp, 9mm & 40 S&W. There may be plenty of others but they will not have the Varity and are not as popular. One of my favorite rounds is the 44spl and I have to drive 60 miles to find a place that stocks it.



Here is a large picture of the 380-32 acp. Click the link.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...380-32_ACP.jpg


Here you can compare size on handgun rounds.

Common handgun cartridges. Left to right: 3 inch 12 ga magnum shotgun shell (for comparison), size "AA" battery (for comparison), .454 Casull, .45 Winchester Magnum, .44 Remington Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .45 ACP, .38 Super, 9 mm Luger, .32 ACP, .22 LR
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-handgun-cartridges

__________________
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...64&postcount=9
Doppelhaken, Draco, Richard H, ToddinFl, Augustus Sutter, Chain, Subrosa, Jarl, White Will, whose next?

Last edited by Sean Martin; November 22nd, 2007 at 11:33 AM.
 
Old November 22nd, 2007 #69
Derrick MacThomas
Senior Member
 
Derrick MacThomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: In your nightmares
Posts: 2,193
Derrick MacThomas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NS Cat View Post
I made a mistake in my previous question,

Let me repeat it.

Why are .25 and .32 worse than .22lr?
What about .380/9mmkurz?
Get hold of a book called Survival Guns.
It has a table of almost every calibre. The table has a lot of information, which includes the impact energy delivered by each calibre.
In revolvers .44 magnum is the ultimate calibre, but far too large for a concealed carry, so .38 special is a satisfactory compromise.
.25 and .32 are next to useless. Too small, too light, too slow.
9mm has only half the stopping power of .45 ACP.
This is why .45 ACP will go through the front plate of a nigger's skull and kill it with 100% reliability, but 9mm does not have that level of reliability.
9mm will deliver an instant kill only if it strikes heart or brain, unlike .45 ACP which will deliver an instant kill with any torso hit within 25 metres of the muzzle.
Shoot someone with 9mm and the bastard will probably be able to return fire and kill you, even if he is bleeding to death from a lung hit.
.223, for example, delivers only one third of the impact energy to the target that 7.62x51mm provides, which is one of the reasons why the M16/AR15 are fishtank ornaments or mouse guns. I speak from the perspective of a former soldier who has had to fire a weapon in anger.
One of the worst decisions the US military made was to scrap the M14 and adopt the M16 mouse gun.
Another really bad decision was to switch from .45 ACP to 9mm in pistols.
The US military now has rifle and pistol calibres that are not man killers.
This makes a grunt's life really difficult and unnecessarily dangerous.
When a grunt shoots someone he wants to kill the bastard instantly. To do anything else risks the grunt's life because the target may be functional enough to return fire.
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #70
Sean Martin
......
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,397
Sean Martin
Default

I have been reading your posts and I must say your knowledge of guns is straight out of a gun magazine and impeccably terrible. Arenít guns banned in Australia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick MacThomas View Post
Get hold of a book called Survival Guns.
It has a table of almost every calibre. The table has a lot of information, which includes the impact energy delivered by each calibre.
There are much better books, get one on reloading or the like they show not only different calibers but different loads and slugs.

Quote:
In revolvers .44 magnum is the ultimate calibre, but far too large for a concealed carry, so .38 special is a satisfactory compromise.
So what about the 500S&W, 460 Magnum or the 454? All these dwarf the 44 magnum. The 38 sp with the right load will be more than satisfactory.

Quote:
.25 and .32 are next to useless. Too small, too light, too slow.
9mm has only half the stopping power of .45 ACP.
Ok then why have so many people been killed with 25 autos? Why have even the most worthless of Negroes been able to kill people with cheap low caliber guns? A 25 auto with plain Wal-Mart ammo will crack through a 2x4 at 21 feet, unless you have a body part that is tougher than a seasoned 2x4 I think it will penetrate any part of a person.

Quote:
This is why .45 ACP will go through the front plate of a ni--er's skull and kill it with 100% reliability, but 9mm does not have that level of reliability.
so you are saying a person can shoot a 9mm directly into the skull of a Negro and not kill it?

The 45 acp isnít famous for itís penetration it is famous for itís knockdown power meaning it puts a lot of energy into a large space on the target. It is huge and bulky. I have seen you sing the praises of carrying a 45 auto but who does? Even the gun writers that praise it donít carry it. Cops and feds who can carry a gun in the open donít carry 45 autoís for a reason. They are heavy, they can only hold 8+1 rounds, they donít have penetration, they are not as accurate as newer calibers and they are just not as effective as modern calibers. The 40 S&W will do everything a 45 acp will do and more.

Quote:
9mm will deliver an instant kill only if it strikes heart or brain, unlike .45 ACP which will deliver an instant kill with any torso hit within 25 metres of the muzzle.
No the 45 caliber will not do all of that. You donít know the dynamics of getting shot. A person can get shot in the leg and sever an a artery and die within a few seconds of blood loss. If shot in the torso by any gun you can hit the spleen, lung, kidney, intestines, liver or heart. All these hits will stop the average person.

Quote:
Shoot someone with 9mm and the ------ will probably be able to return fire and kill you, even if he is bleeding to death from a lung hit.
I donít know what planet you are from but on earth a shot to the lung will put anyone down. People donít return fire after being hit in the lungs. First of all your lungs fill up with air and blood. Not only do you have the immediate pain but extreme asphyxiation, which comes faster than holding you breath. It is possible to live after being shot in the lungs but I havenít seen anyone who will keep coming with 9mm hollow points ripping through their lungs.

Quote:
.223, for example, delivers only one third of the impact energy to the target that 7.62x51mm provides, which is one of the reasons why the M16/AR15 are fishtank ornaments or mouse guns. I speak from the perspective of a former soldier who has had to fire a weapon in anger.
Where are you going to shoot the 7.62? It will over penetrate the target and go through the wall behind it and the kid behind the wall. Also they are usually twice as long as a 223 and twice as heavy. You donít have a good second shot as the gun climbs out of control on rapid fire. You canít shoot it in an area with homes or people. It is to heavy to carry and maneuver effectively. You canít carry a third of the rounds you can with a 223.

There is a reason people went to the 223. It delivers more firepower in short distances where most battles take place. The 7.62 is a great caliber if you are in a hidden place playing the sniper roll but to carry one and face the enemy it is not the best idea which is why those large calibers were abandoned by soldiers.

Just so you know soldiers werenít forced to take these weapons they begged the military for something better. After they got overrun in Korea while carrying high caliber guns because they couldnít lay the proper amount of ammo down they asked for something that could put more rounds in more targets.

Quote:
One of the worst decisions the US military made was to scrap the M14 and adopt the M16 mouse gun.
Have you ever carried an M-14? It is massive compared to the M-16. I can imagine someone trying to maneuver an M-14 in a building or heavily wooded area. Also you would be to worn out from lugging the thing to make effective shots and you could only carry a third of the rounds. This would be great if you faced your enemy from a hilltop at 500 yards but most battles take place at a couple hundred feet where firepower and maneuverability are the key elements.

Quote:
Another really bad decision was to switch from .45 ACP to 9mm in pistols.
The US military now has rifle and pistol calibres that are not man killers.
This makes a grunt's life really difficult and unnecessarily dangerous.
When a grunt shoots someone he wants to kill the bastard instantly. To do anything else risks the grunt's life because the target may be functional enough to return fire.
Ok again I donít know what planet you live on but 9mmís kill and they have killed a lot of people. Get the proper round and they deliver a lot of penetration, knock-down and they will rip apart anyone who gets struck by one.

Also what is the deal with you love for these heavy guns? Who is going carry a 45ACP 1911 around on a hot day? You canít conceal one easily, they are heavy after a couple hours and everyone I know who has tried to carry one takes it off the first chance they get.

Also Bob Mundon took a 38sp a snub nose and hit a 10-inch balloon at 200 yards. Sure he is extremely above average but if he can make a head shot with a factory gun and ammo at 600 feet surely the average person could do the same at 50 feet. The 38sp or 9mm with the right ammo will penetrate anything you need in a pistol situation. Sure if you have a body armor clad sniper with a 300 Win Mag at 1,000 yards shooting at you any pistol caliber wonít help. But I guarantee a 9mm wonít bounce off anyoneís skull anytime soon.
__________________
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...64&postcount=9
Doppelhaken, Draco, Richard H, ToddinFl, Augustus Sutter, Chain, Subrosa, Jarl, White Will, whose next?
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #71
Subrosa
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Burning Down Indian Country
Posts: 6,185
Default

the M16 is a pray and spray weapon, the M14 is a reach out and touch and is very accruate. It's select fire function was pretty useless because firing the weapon on full auto make it impossible to control. it's a far better sniper gun or a survival gun that can penetrate hiding places than it is when confronting SWAT teams and the like.

In fact, I believe I read once where they shipped in conversion kits to keep the M14 from firing in full auto.
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #72
Sean Martin
......
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,397
Sean Martin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subrosa View Post
the M16 is a pray and spray weapon,
All guns are pray and spray in the hands of unqualified users. The 223 is an accurate round up to several hundred yards. If a person can’t shoot a larger caliber won’t make a difference.

Here is an example. I can acquire targets with a better group with a $50 Marlin 22 than some people I know (who have been shooting for decades) can with a 30-06. I know how to make a gun accurate and customize it for my own use. What is the point of putting a large bullet downrange in the dirt?

Quote:
the M14 is a reach out and touch and is very accruate.
Yes it is but for up close combat which is where most combat takes place it doesn’t lay down enough rounds and can’t be controlled in rapid fire (not full auto). You double tap is almost impossible and to maneuver the gun in a building just isn’t going to happen.


Quote:
it's a far better sniper gun or a survival gun that can penetrate hiding places than it is when confronting SWAT teams and the like.
It is a better sniper weapon but not overall survival weapon. In a survival situation you must be ready for any situation. While the M-14 is great for shooting at long ranges it is not something you want to carry and you can only carry a very limited amount of ammo.

It is unlikely you will engage targets over a couple hundred yards unless you are a sniper waiting for days to hit a certain person. If you are under fire the 223 is a much better weapon as you can hit your target accurately (if you can shoot) and you can lay down enough firepower to engage multiple targets. It has little recoil so firing several times isn’t a problem.

Another reason the M-14 isn’t a good survival gun is because it is easily mucked up in mud, dirt and heavy dust. I have seen people get them muddy and they have failed. I have seen even on the torture test where they dropped on in mud and it failed. The M-16 has a flap that protects the internal parts from mud and dust. The AK well we all know how it performs in all sorts of situations.

What is the deal with people and these huge guns? If you want to shoot someone from a long distance get a 300 Win Mag or a 7mm magnum. Then you can engage targets at over a thousand yards. How about just getting a 50 cal and nail people at 3,000 yards.

There is a reason people don’t do this. It is not practical. The people you idolize in your avatar carry AK-47’s for a reason. They are durable and reasonably accurate at short ranges.
__________________
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...64&postcount=9
Doppelhaken, Draco, Richard H, ToddinFl, Augustus Sutter, Chain, Subrosa, Jarl, White Will, whose next?

Last edited by Sean Martin; November 23rd, 2007 at 01:34 AM.
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #73
J.Hartman
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 79
J.Hartman
Default

Quote:
There is a huge misconception about carry guns. The most important thing is you have a gun on your person.
Got that right doc, even a cheap, small caliber weapon, that you can shoot and shoot well, will keep you safe and secure. Nothing wrong with smaller caliber carry weapons....the key is training and shooting your weapon often.

Quote:
I have seen you sing the praises of carrying a 45 auto but who does?
I do, in Winter time full sized .45, several friends carry the Commander (smaller) sized .45's pretty flat and easy to conceal...although summer time I currently have a 5 shot Taurus .357.
Note: here in PA open carry is legal...I open carry about 1/2 the time.

The best bullet/gun debate is never ending and pretty pointless....Whatever gun you decide to carry, make sure it works...make sure it is reliable, make sure you have good quality ammo...and make DAMN sure you shoot and become proficient at it.
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #74
Subrosa
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Burning Down Indian Country
Posts: 6,185
Default

Yes the M16 is an accurate gun but the theory behind it's adoption was that patrol teams would make contact at relatively close range and the more bullets that were fired, the more likely casualities would result. This is why the ammo is so light, so they they can carry so much of it, as it would be needed when spraying and praying.
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #75
Subrosa
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Burning Down Indian Country
Posts: 6,185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Hartman View Post
Got that right doc, even a cheap, small caliber weapon, that you can shoot and shoot well, will keep you safe and secure. Nothing wrong with smaller caliber carry weapons....the key is training and shooting your weapon often.



I do, in Winter time full sized .45, several friends carry the Commander (smaller) sized .45's pretty flat and easy to conceal...although summer time I currently have a 5 shot Taurus .357.
Note: here in PA open carry is legal...I open carry about 1/2 the time.

The best bullet/gun debate is never ending and pretty pointless....Whatever gun you decide to carry, make sure it works...make sure it is reliable, make sure you have good quality ammo...and make DAMN sure you shoot and become proficient at it.
Personally, I would only carry a .45 or a .40 cal for self defense. I had both until the pigs got my Ruger P90. Also, what I so like about the .45 is that it's subsonic right out of the box and a good silencer would make it my weapon of choice on nigger hunting safaris.

45+stopping power+subsonic velocities=one excellent weapon.
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #76
Subrosa
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Burning Down Indian Country
Posts: 6,185
Default

the .45 with a good silencer should the the weapon of choice for the discriminating White Nationalist Revolutionary
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #77
Sean Martin
......
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,397
Sean Martin
Default

Why are we even talking about M-14’s in the first place? The question was about 38 snub noses and small autos to carry. Who is going to be carrying around a 4-foot long sniper rifle to restaurants and convenience stores? Apparently the original poster wanted a gun to keep in the pocket not to shoot people at a thousand yards.

This is exactly what I am talking about when I speak of gun nuts, a lot of impractical information. How are you even going to conceal an M-14? What does it even have to do with a carry gun?

How are we on illegal suppressed 45’s? You get caught with one and it is 20 years in Federal Prison. All that should be on another thread.

Ok here is the thing, the majority of people gun writers and citizens alike carry a 38 snubby and for good reason. It is small, carries adequate power and is easy to carry.

Yes in the winter you may carry a 45 but what about in the summer when it is shorts and t-shirts?
__________________
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...64&postcount=9
Doppelhaken, Draco, Richard H, ToddinFl, Augustus Sutter, Chain, Subrosa, Jarl, White Will, whose next?
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #78
Derrick MacThomas
Senior Member
 
Derrick MacThomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: In your nightmares
Posts: 2,193
Derrick MacThomas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
I have been reading your posts and I must say your knowledge of guns is straight out of a gun magazine and impeccably terrible. Aren’t guns banned in Australia?
No, they are not.
Modern weapons are, but we are still allowed to possess 19th century technology such as bolt and lever action if the rifles and shooters are licensed.
I have been shooting for 42 years and spent about a decade with the Australian Army, so my knowledge is not out of magazines.
You are obnoxious.

Quote:
There are much better books, get one on reloading or the like they show not only different calibers but different loads and slugs.
Yes, but a book on reloading will not discuss the merits of different weapons.

Quote:
So what about the 500S&W, 460 Magnum or the 454? All these dwarf the 44 magnum. The 38 sp with the right load will be more than satisfactory.
Possibly, but they do not exist here in Australia. Those calibres are outside my frame of reference.

Quote:
Ok then why have so many people been killed with 25 autos? Why have even the most worthless of Negroes been able to kill people with cheap low caliber guns? A 25 auto with plain Wal-Mart ammo will crack through a 2x4 at 21 feet, unless you have a body part that is tougher than a seasoned 2x4 I think it will penetrate any part of a person.
That has not been my experience.
On paper, a .25 has less hitting power than a .22.

Quote:
so you are saying a person can shoot a 9mm directly into the skull of a Negro and not kill it?
That is correct.
The thickness of the forehead bone of the negro skull has been known to stop 9mm and .38.

Quote:
The 45 acp isn’t famous for it’s penetration it is famous for it’s knockdown power meaning it puts a lot of energy into a large space on the target. It is huge and bulky. I have seen you sing the praises of carrying a 45 auto but who does? Even the gun writers that praise it don’t carry it. Cops and feds who can carry a gun in the open don’t carry 45 auto’s for a reason. They are heavy, they can only hold 8+1 rounds, they don’t have penetration, they are not as accurate as newer calibers and they are just not as effective as modern calibers. The 40 S&W will do everything a 45 acp will do and more.
The only people here who use 40 S&W are the New South Wales state police.
Licensed pistol shooters here are limited to .38 or smaller. Heaven forbid we might be able to outgun the police.

Quote:
No the 45 caliber will not do all of that. You don’t know the dynamics of getting shot. A person can get shot in the leg and sever an a artery and die within a few seconds of blood loss. If shot in the torso by any gun you can hit the spleen, lung, kidney, intestines, liver or heart. All these hits will stop the average person.
Er, I do know the dynamics.
I have fired a few shots in anger courtesy of the army and I know what happens when someone is hit.
Take into account the adrenalin factor.

Quote:
I don’t know what planet you are from but on earth a shot to the lung will put anyone down. People don’t return fire after being hit in the lungs. First of all your lungs fill up with air and blood. Not only do you have the immediate pain but extreme asphyxiation, which comes faster than holding you breath. It is possible to live after being shot in the lungs but I haven’t seen anyone who will keep coming with 9mm hollow points ripping through their lungs.
I have two good friends who were shot through a lung, continued to fight and are still around to tell the tale.
One was shot in Stalingrad by a 7.62x54 and lost a lung. The other took a 7.62x39 in Vietnam and lost half a lung.
Both continued to fight and the younger of the two did not at first realise that he had been hit.
Adrenalin will do that.

Quote:
Where are you going to shoot the 7.62? It will over penetrate the target and go through the wall behind it and the kid behind the wall. Also they are usually twice as long as a 223 and twice as heavy. You don’t have a good second shot as the gun climbs out of control on rapid fire. You can’t shoot it in an area with homes or people. It is to heavy to carry and maneuver effectively. You can’t carry a third of the rounds you can with a 223.
YOu appear to have no combat experience whatsoever. If you did, you would not say such things.
You also indulge in the American stupidity of putting a weapon on automatic and spraying like an undisciplined nigger gangster, then wondering WTF you run of ammunition.
A well-trained infantry rifleman works on the basis of one shot one kill.
Every round you fire has to be replaced by the supply system. A supply system can be disrupted and you become vulnerable while being resupplied.
Ammunition should be expended sparingly, very sparingly.
That is one of the signs of a well trained and well disciplined soldier.

Quote:
There is a reason people went to the 223. It delivers more firepower in short distances where most battles take place. The 7.62 is a great caliber if you are in a hidden place playing the sniper roll but to carry one and face the enemy it is not the best idea which is why those large calibers were abandoned by soldiers.
.223 is not a man killer.
I know people who have put multiple 5.56mm rounds into men and watched them keep on running.
I had the good fortune to use an FN FAL L1A1, so I did not have to worry about whether or not my rounds would kill.

Quote:
Just so you know soldiers weren’t forced to take these weapons they begged the military for something better. After they got overrun in Korea while carrying high caliber guns because they couldn’t lay the proper amount of ammo down they asked for something that could put more rounds in more targets.
Really!
I suppose that would be why US soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq are begging and screaming for the army to take M14s out of mothballs?
Take a look at the news wire pix sometime. There are plenty of M14s turning up over there and the word is that US soldiers are screaming for M14s to replace their mouse guns.

Quote:
Have you ever carried an M-14? It is massive compared to the M-16. I can imagine someone trying to maneuver an M-14 in a building or heavily wooded area. Also you would be to worn out from lugging the thing to make effective shots and you could only carry a third of the rounds. This would be great if you faced your enemy from a hilltop at 500 yards but most battles take place at a couple hundred feet where firepower and maneuverability are the key elements.
No, I carried an FN FAL L1A1. I believe that it is about the same weight, perhaps slightly heavier.
If your weapon is too heavy, you are not fit enough.
If you cannot conduct minor infantry tactics such as fire and movement with a real rifle then you are not well enough trained and you are not fit enough.

Quote:
Ok again I don’t know what planet you live on but 9mm’s kill and they have killed a lot of people. Get the proper round and they deliver a lot of penetration, knock-down and they will rip apart anyone who gets struck by one.
Yes they have and they do, but not on a reliable basis.
A 9mm MIGHT kill you. A .45 WILL kill you.

Quote:
Also what is the deal with you love for these heavy guns? Who is going carry a 45ACP 1911 around on a hot day? You can’t conceal one easily, they are heavy after a couple hours and everyone I know who has tried to carry one takes it off the first chance they get.
Because I insist on a weapon that will do the job, which is to kill the enemy with the first shot.
Anyone who thinks that a Colt or an M14 is 'too heavy' is not up to combat fitness.
After a couple of days in the bush with a 40kg pack, an FN rifle, a spare belt for the M60, perhaps a claymore or a spare battery for the radio the rifle should be as light as a twig.
In my regiment even the girls in the HQ support staff had no difficulty handling an FN rifle, or an M60 in the bush.
Are you saying that they are fitter and stronger than you?

Quote:
Also Bob Mundon took a 38sp a snub nose and hit a 10-inch balloon at 200 yards. Sure he is extremely above average but if he can make a head shot with a factory gun and ammo at 600 feet surely the average person could do the same at 50 feet. The 38sp or 9mm with the right ammo will penetrate anything you need in a pistol situation. Sure if you have a body armor clad sniper with a 300 Win Mag at 1,000 yards shooting at you any pistol caliber won’t help. But I guarantee a 9mm won’t bounce off anyone’s skull anytime soon.
Frankly, I am surprised that (a) a .38 round travelled 200 metres and that (b) it hit a target smaller than the USS Kittyhawk.
Anyone who tries for a head shot at anything more than point blank range is an idiot. Pumped full of adrenalin you will be shaking like a leaf and unable to aim accurately. Shoot for the largest target, the torso.
People who like to show how clever they are by going for difficult headshots at range will end up dead.
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #79
Sean Martin
......
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,397
Sean Martin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick MacThomas View Post
Pumped full of adrenalin you will be shaking like a leaf and unable to aim accurately. Shoot for the largest target, the torso.
People who like to show how clever they are by going for difficult headshots at range will end up dead.
Here you contradict everything about the one shot one kill. Under fire a person canít leisurely take the time to aim precisely and make shots. You are walking patrol and all of the sudden gunfire breaks out. A person will not be singing somewhere over the rainbow while they take careful aim and acquire the target.

Also large calibers donít function well in sand and mud. But no one is talking about sniper rifles or walking the beat in the military, we are talking about carrying a pistol in your pocket in public places. The 45 acp is not good for this as the only to conceal one is in the winter and if you have to take off your coat the gun is exposed.

The original poster wants to know about carrying small caliber weapons. I am sure with an M-14 you will defeat someone carrying a 38sp. But if the M-14 is in the trunk of the car or in a safe at home the 38sp will be victorious every time. I donít know of anyone who carries an M-14 into the Kwicky mart.
__________________
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...64&postcount=9
Doppelhaken, Draco, Richard H, ToddinFl, Augustus Sutter, Chain, Subrosa, Jarl, White Will, whose next?
 
Old November 23rd, 2007 #80
Derrick MacThomas
Senior Member
 
Derrick MacThomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: In your nightmares
Posts: 2,193
Derrick MacThomas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
Here you contradict everything about the one shot one kill. Under fire a person can’t leisurely take the time to aim precisely and make shots. You are walking patrol and all of the sudden gunfire breaks out. A person will not be singing somewhere over the rainbow while they take careful aim and acquire the target.
A well trained and disciplined soldier will still do a fair job of it.
I was referring specifically to a civilian on a street pulling out a pistol to save their life.
Shoot for centre of mass. Anything else is suicidal folly.

Quote:
Also large calibers don’t function well in sand and mud. But no one is talking about sniper rifles or walking the beat in the military, we are talking about carrying a pistol in your pocket in public places. The 45 acp is not good for this as the only to conceal one is in the winter and if you have to take off your coat the gun is exposed.
I have spent a lot of time in the bush with an FN rifle and I have never, ever, got mud or dirt in it.
Perish the thought!
That is a sign of a poorly trained soldier.
I agree with you about .45 being too big for concealed carry, if one is referring to a Colt.
There are, however, smaller .45 pistols.
For such situations I prefer a revolver, so I would carry either a .38 or better a .357 with the heaviest projectile I could arrange.
A revolver will not jam and .38 or .357 will kill. If you need the 17 shots (or whatever it is) in the magazine of one of those dreadful 9mm Glocks you are dead meat anyway.
The number of police here in Australia who have shot themselves in the feet with Glocks is pitiful.:krofl

Quote:
The original poster wants to know about carrying small caliber weapons. I am sure with an M-14 you will defeat someone carrying a 38sp. But if the M-14 is in the trunk of the car or in a safe at home the 38sp will be victorious every time. I don’t know of anyone who carries an M-14 into the Kwicky mart.
True, but it does create a wonderful mental picture.
 
Reply

Share


Thread
Display Modes


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04 AM.
Page generated in 0.17748 seconds.