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Old July 27th, 2012 #121
Alex Linder
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I forgot to say the 'Old Right' has a meaning in American conservatism too. It refers to the old guys who didn't go along with FDR's socialist revolution, and continued to fight for the old, free and real America, against the budding welfare state.

Honestly, Fighting Fags for Fascism would be better than the terms he's used. He needs to be bold, not conservative.

Last edited by Alex Linder; July 28th, 2012 at 01:32 AM.
 
Old July 27th, 2012 #122
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Originally Posted by procopius View Post
Has Johnson's credibility in the eyes of regular White Nationalists increased or decreased since his essay? How many will truly trust him now? I have a feeling he has had a net loss in support from White Nationalists and American Nationalists. The same will have happen to McDonald and others too. I guess it will be a trade off between more money donations from respectable people and dedicated White Nationalists.

The result of Johnson's compromise will be more compromise. I'm sure in time he come to the conclusion that we need to stop talking about events of 9-11 as well. Maybe that will be the topic of his next essay. He should just incorporate this essay into a series called "How to lose gracefully to the Jews."
Regular WN's generally don't discuss the holocaust themselves in public, so the vast majority agree wholeheartedly with Johnson on not discussing it in public. In fact, most would not dare to go as far as Johnson, MacDonald etc have gone.

You yourself for example, agree with Johnson, or you wouldn't be using a pseudonym.

The WN's who don't agree with him are standing up in public, using their real names, showing their real faces, and they and their families, must endure what follows.

Those in Europe have been beaten, imprisoned, many have fled. Those in the US mostly are too afraid, with good reason, to go as far as their European comrades, though the consequences are not as severe.

Sometimes, a WN is prepared to take the consequences, but their family is not.
Not many WN are prepared to then either walk away from their families, or take their families down with them.
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Old July 27th, 2012 #123
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I think MacDonald is a punch-puller. After reading C. of C., I wondered why the Federal Reserve was not discussed. I sent a mail to MacDonald and he replied: "I just wasn't interested."

So the main evil power center of jews is not to be discussed. . .

There have been movements by queers to hijack other groups. They tried to take over Objectivism around '04:

Firehammer asserts that Objectivism is being hijacked by those who would use the philosophy to "normalize homosexuality." The hijackersí "real mission" is "clearly illustrated" in my own book, which affirms homosexuality "as a moral virtue," and makes it a "central issue," "the primary issue," "the gating issue" of Objectivism. Underlying Firehammerís assertions is the belief that Randís view of homosexuality as "immoral" and "disgusting" is constitutive of Objectivism. To be constitutive is to imply that Randís view is essential to her philosophy, such that one cannot pull forth the thread of her stance without doing fundamental harm to the whole, integrated cloth of Objectivism.

To all this, I say: Nonsense. But if Firehammer is correct, then I say: Three Cheers for Hijacking, and Iíll Pilot the Plane!


http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/...ijacking.shtml

I doubt that perverts can be totally rational. Jews and queers have the same cognition, along with the ladies.
 
Old July 27th, 2012 #124
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I discussed ad hominem because Bugster Gregor was imputing the use of it to Greg Johnson's opponents.
I think Johnson needs to think clearly about what he is trying to do. It sure looks to me like he is veering back to safe, respectable conservatism.

Quote:
Ad hominem can be used for or against the advancement of truth. If somebody says, Look here, your argument is based on using some terms without defining them, and using some other terms with definitions that nobody ever used before, and the defense against such a criticism is to throw insults, I don't think it's going to convince very many people. Only people that approach the matter with a strong pre-existing bias will find that persuasive.
Ad hominem works best combined with formal logical refutation. The formal argument is the meat, but you dont just eat meat, you put bread and cheese and sauce around. So you outargue the other guy, and you add insult to it, to complete your victory in stylish fashion.
 
Old July 27th, 2012 #125
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Regular WN's generally don't discuss the holocaust themselves in public, so the vast majority agree wholeheartedly with Johnson on not discussing it in public. In fact, most would not dare to go as far as Johnson, MacDonald etc have gone.

You yourself for example, agree with Johnson, or you wouldn't be using a pseudonym.

The WN's who don't agree with him are standing up in public, using their real names, showing their real faces, and they and their families, must endure what follows.

Those in Europe have been beaten, imprisoned, many have fled. Those in the US mostly are too afraid, with good reason, to go as far as their European comrades, though the consequences are not as severe.

Sometimes, a WN is prepared to take the consequences, but their family is not.
Not many WN are prepared to then either walk away from their families, or take their families down with them.
You counsel cowardice when Golden Dawn's boldness brings success. Why? We have free speech here. No one gets thrown in jail for 'holocaust' 'denial.' They don't in England either, but the Snickengriff Party is on Sodden Winnie's side.
 
Old July 27th, 2012 #126
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Hey, Hugh, stop your English girl-dog bullshit and watch how a real man and ELECTED OFFICIAL handles the shit we're talking about:

 
Old July 27th, 2012 #127
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I think MacDonald is a punch-puller. After reading C. of C., I wondered why the Federal Reserve was not discussed. I sent a mail to MacDonald and he replied: "I just wasn't interested."

So the main evil power center of jews is not to be discussed. . .

There have been movements by queers to hijack other groups. They tried to take over Objectivism around '04:

Firehammer asserts that Objectivism is being hijacked by those who would use the philosophy to "normalize homosexuality." The hijackersí "real mission" is "clearly illustrated" in my own book, which affirms homosexuality "as a moral virtue," and makes it a "central issue," "the primary issue," "the gating issue" of Objectivism. Underlying Firehammerís assertions is the belief that Randís view of homosexuality as "immoral" and "disgusting" is constitutive of Objectivism. To be constitutive is to imply that Randís view is essential to her philosophy, such that one cannot pull forth the thread of her stance without doing fundamental harm to the whole, integrated cloth of Objectivism.

To all this, I say: Nonsense. But if Firehammer is correct, then I say: Three Cheers for Hijacking, and Iíll Pilot the Plane!


http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/...ijacking.shtml

I doubt that perverts can be totally rational. Jews and queers have the same cognition, along with the ladies.
Eh, as long as they're not promoting homo-ism, it's not that big a deal. I mean, christ, the homos at least are practiced in cunning and deception. And they're generally intelligent people with some money. Contrast with the WN base of dullish religious conservatives. The queers shouldn't be leading anything, but if they keep their stuff in the closet, then it's not that big a deal. The way Hitler treated the matter seems correct to me.
 
Old July 27th, 2012 #128
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... and 2) the term New Right was coined in the 70s to refer to the rise of the Christian Right, within Republican/conservative circles, and the rise of direct mail as a tool of money raising, as most prominently associated with Richard Viguerie.
That's the use of "New Right" that is familiar to me. I also read that this term was applied to people whose notion of conservatism was represented by presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.

Greg Johnson seems to be trying to identify himself with the French Nouvelle Droite. But if you look at that, it is really a movement that has its origins contemporary with Fascism and National-Socialism. It's more like a sibling of N-S and Fascism than anything else, which is why even the anti-racist Alain de Benoist gets accused of being essentially a fascist. Benoist himself defines the (French) Old Right as monarchists, Bonapartists, and traditional Catholics. So, Greg Johnson seems to be on his own with his notions of what the labels Old Right and New Right denote.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #129
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Hey, Hugh, stop your English girl-dog bullshit and watch how a real man and ELECTED OFFICIAL handles the shit we're talking about:
He gets it a wrong when he says that there were no "ovens" if by ovens he means crematoria. It's good that they are bold. In a parliamentary system there is much less incentive to mealymouth than in our system. We really have a bad constitution in some respects.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #130
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He gets it a wrong when he says that there were no "ovens" if by ovens he means crematoria. It's good that they are bold. In a parliamentary system there is much less incentive to mealymouth than in our system. We really have a bad constitution in some respects.
Hadding, he's talking to a journalist trying to trip him up, I give him some room.

BTW, this is a fine point, but I would not ever use the term 'definition' with regard to 'holocaust,' because it CONNOTES quibbling over fine points, when we all know the H is a monstrous imposition, a big lie, and a unsupered bit of genocidal chutzpathic effrontery. One should not pretend one is not in a political battle from the start, and immediately leap to blood libel. If anything, demand to know what they mean by that term. I mean, in private, polite conversation with people it's one thing, but I wouldn't use 'definition' ever in political stuff, it's associated with weak, wimply college-boy philosophizing. That's like van Driessenish - we need to define our terms...come let us reason together...and then listen to some Lesbian Seagull.

We do, but that, using define, is not the way to go politically. We're not in a debate, 9/10ths when this stuff comes up, and we shouldn't pretend we are, we're in a fight from the word go. If jews wanted to be honest and debate, they wouldnt have foisted an agitprop term in the first place.

Last edited by Alex Linder; July 28th, 2012 at 01:34 AM.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #131
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That's the use of "New Right" that is familiar to me. I also read that this term was applied to people whose notion of conservatism was represented by presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.

Greg Johnson seems to be trying to identify himself with the French Nouvelle Droite. But if you look at that, it is really a movement that has its origins contemporary with Fascism and National-Socialism. It's more like a sibling of N-S and Fascism than anything else, which is why even the anti-racist Alain de Benoist gets accused of being essentially a fascist. Benoist himself defines the (French) Old Right as monarchists, Bonapartists, and traditional Catholics. So, Greg Johnson seems to be on his own with his notions of what the labels Old Right and New Right denote.
How about something glorious like Fruits 'n' Friends For Fascism!

That would get people excited.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #132
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How about something glorious like Fruits 'n' Friends For Fascism!

That would get people excited.
Ivory Tower White Nationalists.

Yesterday an independent licensed electrician stopped by and we discussed politics and fact that there is no real political organization for White people today. I turned him on to Dr. Pierce over the winter.

He told me that many White men in my area do agree with me, and to not be discouraged if it seems at times that I am the only one willing to speak up in public, whereas most others will not.

White men are growing angry and it is high time that we stop intellectualizing and get busy with the job of creating a new Alliance. My electrician friend told me of one local business owner who is so fed up with the way things are going, that he actually looks for niggers to run over on his way to his plant each morning. These are the kind of men that will fund a legitimate activist White organization, but we are not going to reach them debating over 5,000 word essays. They want to see results, not theorizing.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #133
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Regular WN's generally don't discuss the holocaust themselves in public, so the vast majority agree wholeheartedly with Johnson on not discussing it in public. In fact, most would not dare to go as far as Johnson, MacDonald etc have gone.

You yourself for example, agree with Johnson, or you wouldn't be using a pseudonym.

The WN's who don't agree with him are standing up in public, using their real names, showing their real faces, and they and their families, must endure what follows.

Those in Europe have been beaten, imprisoned, many have fled. Those in the US mostly are too afraid, with good reason, to go as far as their European comrades, though the consequences are not as severe.

Sometimes, a WN is prepared to take the consequences, but their family is not.
Not many WN are prepared to then either walk away from their families, or take their families down with them.

hmmm let me get this straight.

Jews talk about the Holocaust all the time in public. They make movies, TV shows, build temples for gentiles to worship at, on and on etc. It seems that Jews do this for reason and I believe any person that is wise to the Jew knows why that is. Why is it no one, with the exception of Muslims, ever try to check the Jew's lies in public.

You then suggest that since W.N. don't want to talk about it in public, then we should keep on not doing that. So the thing that has proven not to work (Not talking about the Holocaust) is the very thing we should keep doing? Maybe we should try a different plan of attack.

I think we (White Nationalists) have an expectation from the people who presume to be our leaders. We want them, we need them,to be brave in the face of adversity. If they are too afraid to tell the truth then maybe they shouldn't be supported as leaders.

On a side note, I have talked about historical revisionism (especially WW2 history) to many of my White liberal friends and have gotten positive responses more then I get from my conservative Christian family. In fact so-called conservatives tend to react poorly to information that seems off script. Maybe the "new right" is trying to appeal to the wrong people for it's base. Why would you want to work with people (mainstream conservatives) who keep losing? I don't know what we should do, but not responding to Jewish lies is the wrong way.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #134
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Notice how MacDonald writes an article being vaguely skeptical about 9/11, but skepticism about "The Holocaust" - no sir, not allowed.

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net...er-on-display/

I see MacDonald and Johnson feel totally safe implying that the Jews had foreknowledge, therefore involvement in 9/11, but not only don't dare to step into the "The Holocaust" skepticism arena but promote "The Holocaust" as unquestionable and largely true.

Johnson has a losing way to "deal" with the Holocaust.

He would lose a debate with a Holohoax promoter and he CAN'T debate with a Holocaust fact finder - note Johnson can't answer 4 easy questions.

http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=1415023&postcount=53


Golden Dawn's strategy is what we need, and it's what works. Their example of leadership and strength of character it takes to deny The Lie and go on the offensive against the hoaxers are one of the reasons young followers are drawn to them and they are on the rise.


Check out the interviewer's reaction when he is asked "Were you in Auschwitz?" His body language shows he's lost the point as he turns his head, sighs, tries to recover, and says- "No, but I've read about it."

Maybe Johnson needs to go to Auschwitz and walk into Crematorium 1, with its wooden doors, glass windows, Soviet built chimney floating out of the ground and let's see if he still doesn't want us to let the Jews claim their "Holocaust" lie.

He's arguing with people such as Carolyn Yeager, who have been there. To be honest I doubt Johnson has read "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" or watched any good videos about the subject.

The Jews are using their genocide lies to genocide us.

And the lie, as it is NOT attacked by those in academia such as MacDonald, is evolving to form a more potent weapon against whites.

As I will point out in my next draft of my documentary, more than I already have, is that organized Jewry is putting forth the complete HOAX that blacks and Jews were the first to liberate the concentration camps. They are doing this to incite and justify our future genocide.

Analysis of this mini-Holohoax strategy alone could take up an entire MacDonald book, but he apparently doesn't have what it takes.

The Jew lies about Nazi experiments to change eye color, etc, are in part, a Jewish strategy to get whites who aren't blonde with blue eyes (the majority) to oppose nationalism.

We fact-finders can go on and on. That the "elite" of American white nationalism doesn't want to use these facts, but join in with the Jews and offer their condolences for millions of deaths and events (such as most experimentation lies) that not only didn't happen, but are Big lies used to destroy us is cowardice, and people aren't looking for cowardly leaders.

 
Old July 28th, 2012 #135
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CODOH are our allies, while Weber and Taylor are enemies.

Weber is who Linder might need to be brought up to date on. He is a greater enemy to Revisionism and White Nationalism than Jared Taylor.

I don't know the whole story on Weber, but Torgs or others might be able to explain it all.
Great blog I came across concerning the lazy, indolent and holocaust affirmer Mark Weber, http://markwebermustgo.blogspot.com.

After Weber wrote his hideous 2009 article attacking revisionists and the revisionist movement, calling them "fanatics and cultists", one revisionist Bill Guru fired off this to Weber in an email.

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There will be those who will pounce on your betrayal as "proof" that Willis Carto was correct when he denounced you as a "Scientology agent". I refuse to believe it. Rather, the betrayal merely confirms what those who knew you in your National Alliance days already know-that you are a sneaky, duplicitous, self-promoting little shit.
The IHR under the Weber tutelage is an organization going from one financial crisis to the next. Weber admits himself he is not a business man or good manager, and is driving the once proud IHR into the ground.

His revisionist attack piece "How Relevant is Holocaust Revisionism" is being used by the jews to attack revisionists, this makes Weber a jew-tool in all but name.

Quote:
No informed person disputes that Europe's Jews did, in fact, suffer a great catastrophe during the Second World War. Millions were forced from their homes and deported to brutal internment in crowded ghettos and camps. Jewish communities across Central and Eastern Europe, large and small, were wiped out. Millions lost their lives. When the war ended in 1945, most of the Jews of Germany, Poland, the Netherlands and others countries were gone.
http://www.ihr.org/weber_revisionism_jan09.html

This disgraceful revisionist attack piece is nowhere to be found on the IHR home page.
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Old July 28th, 2012 #136
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You know what, Greg Gerdes, (Torgs) you are right on some things, even though your ban is justified there.

CODOH isn't open in the fact that they ban many believers who dodge questions, and Revisionists like you who hijack threads, endlessly spam, etc.

If were truly "Open" they'd have a totally unmoderated free-for-all. But they think their way is more civil.

I agree that the CODOH forum is too moderated and bans people like the "Holocaust Controversies" (Holo-promoters) crew. Forum traffic has dropped because it is too moderated, in my opinion. In fact, there is little to no debate with the Holo-promoters at all, because they have been banned.

But it is what it is. A moderated forum with closely followed rules.

You posted 11 times about CODOH here, hijacking a thread about completely different people and organizations. Most message boards would ban you, delete your messages to keep the thread on topic, and in fact you have been banned multiple times from every message board you've ever been to. It's easy to pick you out, Greg, no matter how many dozens of pseudonyms you re-sign up with. It seems like you've even been banned multiple times from VNN, but I don't see you complaining about that.

I was temporarily banned from CODOH, in fact, at the same time as Carolyn Yeager, for arguing with her. And I agree with the ban. We were warned and didn't follow forum or even debate rules.

But this is all off-topic, totally de-railing a thread.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #137
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Gerdes has indeed been banned from here before. He's now tarded as 'Torgs." Let's keep this thread on track, the original subject is far more interesting and important. Someone can start a different thread on CODOH and such if he likes.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #138
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We fact-finders can go on and on. That the "elite" of American white nationalism doesn't want to use these facts, but join in with the Jews and offer their condolences for millions of deaths and events (such as most experimentation lies) that not only didn't happen, but are Big lies used to destroy us is cowardice, and people aren't looking for cowardly leaders.
That's right. I think the moral is, don't look to professors for leadership. All this is academic until we have actual White political vehicle, but at least we can get the right strategy down, and that surely includes taking on 'the' 'holocaust' directly as a big lie.

I would like to see someone give a take on the bigger picture. Not just KM and GJ and Weber and Taylor, but the organizations behind all this. I can only give the grossest outline, but what seems to me is that although many individual men have a lot of the right beliefs, and are good at analyzing the problems our race faces, ultimately they draw their respect and funding from certain conservative 501c ZOG foundations, which translates into their fundamental bias and orientation being conservative rather than radical.

I see professional conservatism as a womb that the baby of WN is trying to break free of, but the mother won't let it out, even though it's past its due date. Everybody knows Republicans are owned opposition. Everybody knows the brilliant, well paid conservative writers pull punches on race and jews. Everybody knows honest radical racists won't be allowed on tv or in the mass newspapers. But nobody seems to want to simply cut with the System, and be truly radical, responsible, independent and self-creating. They're all trying to go a little bit farther than the Coulters or Buchanans would while retaining their respectability. They're trying to have it both ways. Thus we seen endless multiplication of pseudo-radicals that always ultimately end up back on the reservation because they never truly left in anything but words. The 'alt-right' crowd is the latest incarnation. Formerly Sam Francis was the most notable figure.

Alternativeright.com, run by Richard Spencer, is part of a foundation funded by Vdare, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Then we've got the Charles Martel Society, which is the group of elderly that gave MacDonald the $10k award. Ultimately this group was originally funded by a Regnery, an heir of the German-American who founded the D.C. conservative publishing house. I'm not sure if he's still involved, or how the money runs. Apparently they have a foundation that publishes The Occidental Quarterly, which used to be edited by Greg Johnson. He had a falling out with them. MacDonald runs The Occidental Observer, which is TOQ's online companion. MacDonald and Johnson are still friendly. Somehow Jared Taylor figures into the mix. Then there's Merlin Miller, who managed to fund a party, A3P, MacDonald felt good enough to be associated with.

What does all this mean? To me, the meaning is that whatever biggish money is out there is pushing conservatism, and the top intellectual racialists are content to stay within its ideological compass. That means, as much as anything, they will make WN arguments, and cite WN facts, but they will never actually attempt to emotionalize our cause or lead it. In the end, all this conservative complex produces is more words.

I would love to see a graphical representation of the forces of conservatism, alt-conservatism, and White Nationalism, including the key players, foundations, publications and websites.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #139
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I would love to see a graphical representation of the forces of conservatism, alt-conservatism, and White Nationalism, including the key players, foundations, publications and websites.
So would the SPLC and probably their parent organization, the FBI. Or is it the other way around? I think there is very little foundational money in the patriotic movement. Primarily the cause is fueled by $20 monthly donations from white working-class stiffs like myself.
 
Old July 28th, 2012 #140
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So would the SPLC and probably their parent organization, the FBI. Or is it the other way around? I think there is very little foundational money in the patriotic movement. Primarily the cause is fueled by $20 monthly donations.
Sigh...so much ignorance. And always belligerent and insinuating. Listen, dope. 501c orgs have reporting requirements. It's not a question of secrecy. And I wasn't talking about that anyway. I was talking about a simple visual of how all these orgs and people et al. interrelate. A graphic. Like you see at other sites. Showing the 6 big mass media companies and all their subsidiaries. Something like that.
 
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