Hugo Chavez Demands 99 Tons of Venezuelan Gold Returned From the Bank of England/ JP Morgue

[Henry.]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

It has gone nuts. If my goddam fucking digital camera would upload any pictures, I'd run around town snapping shots of all the places buying gold today. That tells you what's actually going on. Gold is valuable. Silver is valuable. Their price will go up and down, but it will never go to zero - unlike paper money printed by thieves who don't allow any competition

I understand why you say this, but would ask you to explain then, why do the mining companies, the wholesalers and the gold retailers/dealers, all along the food chain, exchange their gold for 'worthless paper money? - When they sell their gold through the industry, and then on to you - they give you their gold and you give them your worthless paper money!

Are all the people who produce the gold so fucking stupid that they give it away in return for worthless ''paper money printed by thieves''?

Tell me why the man who has the goose that lays the golden eggs is in the business of exchanging those golden eggs for the rotten hens eggs that come his way during his business hours.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Henry.

I understand why you say this, but would ask you to explain then, why do the mining companies, the wholesalers and the gold retailers/dealers, all along the food chain, exchange their gold for 'worthless paper money? - When they sell their gold through the industry, and then on to you - they give you their gold and you give them your worthless paper money!

But how much money do they demand for their gold? Couple years ago it was $300. Now it's $1600.

You need paper for its practical applications in day to day life, or simply to get liquid to invest in some other asset. Gold doesn't work as well as paper for that. No one says the paper has no value, they say the value of the individual dollar has been reduced. A trip to any store can verify that. They sell gold for more than the gold is worth, which these days is a huge amount of greenbacks for very little gold. You can bet they don't keep the dollars in greenback form, they put them into a stabler currency or some other kind of asset.

Are all the people who produce the gold so fucking stupid that they give it away in return for worthless ''paper money printed by thieves''?

Tell me why the man who has the goose that lays the golden eggs is in the business of exchanging those golden eggs for the rotten hens eggs that come his way during his business hours.

Does paper money not buy less today than five years ago? Does gold not buy more?

Paper money isn't worthless yet, but it's worth less and less as the weeks and years go by, that's why more and more people want gold, and it costs more and more increasingly valueless greenbacks to acquire that gold.

[Leonard Rouse]

Originally Posted by Henry.

I understand why you say this, but would ask you to explain then, why do the mining companies, the wholesalers and the gold retailers/dealers, all along the food chain, exchange their gold for 'worthless paper money? - When they sell their gold through the industry, and then on to you - they give you their gold and you give them your worthless paper money!

Are all the people who produce the gold so fucking stupid that they give it away in return for worthless ''paper money printed by thieves''?

Tell me why the man who has the goose that lays the golden eggs is in the business of exchanging those golden eggs for the rotten hens eggs that come his way during his business hours.

That's a question that could be asked of any extraction industry, not just gold. Oil. Coal. Cod.

They're in the business of extraction, so they extract. They can't turn it on and off. Further, they have to obey the same rules everyone else does, which means they have to deal in the coin of the realm.

The alternative is for miners to become banks in essence, to write warehouse receipts against their own holdings--to in effect issue their own currency and accrue profit financially rather than industrially. That's illegal.

[Henry.]

Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse

That's a question that could be asked of any extraction industry, not just gold. Oil. Coal. Cod.

They're in the business of extraction, so they extract. They can't turn it on and off. Further, they have to obey the same rules everyone else does, which means they have to deal in the coin of the realm.

The alternative is for miners to become banks in essence, to write warehouse receipts against their own holdings--to in effect issue their own currency and accrue profit financially rather than industrially. That's illegal.

So you think Jews (not miners) with IQs of 140 are passing out valuable gold to Niggers with IQs of 60 in exchange for shit-house paper so long as it has a watermark, and Abe Lincoln's face on it?

Ain't that the fast track to the soup kitchen when the sky falls in?

[Steve B]

Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse

That's a question that could be asked of any extraction industry, not just gold. Oil. Coal. Cod.

They're in the business of extraction, so they extract. They can't turn it on and off. Further, they have to obey the same rules everyone else does, which means they have to deal in the coin of the realm.

Not to nit pick but mining companies can and do turn it on and off depending on the current price. I don't know how the gold mining market is but in silver mining the price is artificially inflated by keeping silver off the market. The Debeers diamond conglomerate does the same thing. Only a specific amount of diamonds are allowed on the market to maintain the price. If they sold all the diamonds they held in their possession and what they have in the ground on the open market the stuff wouldn't be worth 1/10th of what it is normally. Same with silver.

I don't trust precious metals speculation. I know it's rigged and chock full of jews. They can manipulate the price anyway they want anytime they want. I'm not saying the average joe can't make money but most don't and those are facts. The majority of people who play the precious metals market lose. Fact.

[Leonard Rouse]

Originally Posted by Henry.

So you think Jews (not miners) with IQs of 140 are passing out valuable gold to Niggers with IQs of 60 in exchange for shit-house paper so long as it has a watermark, and Abe Lincoln's face on it?

Ain't that the fast track to the soup kitchen when the sky falls in?

The officers and stockholders are free to convert their paper back to gold if they so wish. They're in the same position as any other wage earner or stockholder. They're paid in legal tender.

The money doesn't go back in the hole (for the most part). It's distributed.

And it isn't true (yet) that paper is value-less.

[Leonard Rouse]

Originally Posted by Steve B

Not to nit pick but mining companies can and do turn it on and off depending on the current price.

Sure, but it doesn't go all off. They'd be out of business. It's like a store or restaurant being open in a slack part of the day. You can't pick and choose just your prime hours. If a mine did that, they'd cease to be a going concern because they'd lose their employees, their equipment would rust-out, and they couldn't meet their bribe schedule.

I don't know how the gold mining market is but in silver mining the price is artificially inflated by keeping silver off the market.

Yes, it's the same. However, I'd argue the manipulation possibility is microscopic compared to what's done with currencies.

The Debeers diamond conglomerate does the same thing.

Only a specific amount of diamonds are allowed on the market to maintain the price. If they sold all the diamonds they held in their possession and what they have in the ground on the open market the stuff wouldn't be worth 1/10th of what it is normally. Same with silver.

There are differences. DeBeers is a monopoly, and it essentially controls its product all the way from lava vein to last distributor, being a jewish trade network. Also diamonds have much less natural demand than precious metals, as divorcees inevitably discover to their chagrin.

The rest could be said of any non-perishable commodity. Of timber. Of raw land. Pick the poorest county in the nation. Figure the average sale price/acre. Multiply by the area of the county. It's worth billions! Except it isn't. It would be worthless in that scenario. But that doesn't mean the few tracts that are for sale are worthless.

I don't trust precious metals speculation. I know it's rigged and chock full of jews.

I agree with this in principle. You'd have to define what you call speculation.

They can manipulate the price anyway they want anytime they want.

I don't agree with this. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't as fungible as you describe.

I'm not saying the average joe can't make money but most don't and those are facts. The majority of people who play the precious metals market lose. Fact.

Fact: The average joe buys high and sells low. They're either undercapitalized with too short a time horizon, or they get in after 80% of the price appreciation, or some combo. Same in gold as in corn or MSFT. Or Tickle Me Elmo.

IMO, the name of the game is not to hoard gold, silver, or anything else. The name of the game is to have family and friends you can count on. And you are able to supply some essential product or service, which produces income, which you can then save part of--in gold maybe, or land, or reinvestment in your business or children's education. Dentist, doctor, plumber, auto mechanic, car dealer, etc, etc, etc.

Just "playing the (whatever) market" is a bad idea, imo.

EDIT: The big problem right now with commodities are the advent of ETFs/ETNs which have given major funds (and little guys, too) an opportunity to come into the commodities markets through a back door. So you've got futures which are a kind of derivative of a physical commodity. Then you've got something that looks like a stock that jacks up the price of futures which jacks up the price of the physical. You've got this ocean of money chasing a Great Lake of physical. That's where the manipulation lies presently, not so much with silver mine closures in Mexico, which is old school and passe. ETFs (much moreso than COMEX or LME contracts) allow precious metals to be played just like a small currency. That's new.

[Henry.]

Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse

They're paid in legal tender....And it isn't true (yet) that paper is value-less

Yes, money is all a matter of decree (fiat) but without its intrinsic value (those qualities which are desired by dentists, jewelers, craft workers, etc) gold has no more real worth than month old sanitary towels - OK, gold, looks, and no doubt smells and tastes better than such rags - I'll give you that.

But I'm not talking about the intrinsic or market value of gold, which as Linder rightly pointed out, has been on the up for some years, my concern is the silly and dangerous notion that gold should form the basis of a reserve currency.

Anyone, who thinks that a gold standard will lead to the death of paper currency, or that paper currency issued under a gold standard will be converted to gold on request, is nothing but a gold standard mug.

[Leonard Rouse]

Originally Posted by Henry.

Yes, money is all a matter of decree (fiat) but without its intrinsic value (those qualities which are desired by dentists, jewelers, craft workers, etc) gold has no more real worth than month old sanitary towels - OK, gold, looks, and no doubt smells and tastes better than such rags - I'll give you that.

You know what I learned this weekend?

Almost all the (few remaining) 'radical'/anarchist/communist bookstores are now sidelining something called "Green Menstrual Products" or "Natural Menstrual Products" or somesuch.

I don't what that means. Is it like kiln dried pine cones?

Man, I'd hate to get up in that. Hairy armpits are bad enough.

[Henry.]

Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse

You know what I learned this weekend?

Almost all the (few remaining)....bookstores are now sidelining something called "Green Menstrual Products"...

...Contradictio in terminis!

[Henry.]

Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse

The officers and stockholders are free to convert their paper back to gold if they so wish...

So they continue to shit in their own nest and then pass the turd around?...Jews (especially Galician, read Ross, et al) and Jewish 'types' are dirty bastards, but they're in this world solely for profit.

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

. They sell gold for more than the gold is worth, which these days is a huge amount of greenbacks for very little gold. You can bet they don't keep the dollars in greenback form, they put them into a stabler currency or some other kind of asset.

This is the scam. But unlike Alex I wanna put an end to it, not sign up and go along with it.

Dealing in gold is like bookmaking. The broker or bookie pulls in the punter and doesn't give a fuck about who gets the gold or who wins the horse race as long as he gets his 12% overround - in legal tender - no matter what form that may take.

That's how Jacob Lipschitz gets to live in the big house on Nob Hill.

He sells shiny stuff to white mugs and niggers and then obtains material goods with their money.

[Zeth O. Grady]

I know this is difficult for most of you guys to believe, because you've been inundated your entire adult lives with Austrian School/Von Mises Institute propaganda, but...

Gold/silver/precious metals/tangible objects are NOT money.

Money/credit is an abstract legal concept that exists ONLY in the human mind.

[Kennewickman]

Originally Posted by Zeth O. Grady

Money/credit is an abstract legal concept that exists ONLY in the human mind.[/B]

And the same goes for the value of gold. Both paper money and gold have assigned/manipulated values based on rarity and current social status.

[littlefieldjohn]

Things That Make You Go Hmmm.... Such As A Venezuelan Dictator Bringing Down The Global Gold Cartel

quote
The practical implications of this move are substantial- since then gold has seen record high after record high. Whether one attributes these moves to Chavez, or to yet another global "risk-flaring" episode is unclear. Luckily, Grant Williams, author of the always entertaining "Things That Make you Go Hmmmm", provides some very fascinating observations on this very interesting topic...



To sum up:
It is common practice for most Central Banks to hold part of their gold reserves overseas in ‘gold trading centres’ (read London and New York)

One of those Central Banks - that of Venezuela - wants its gold back

That means that a group of banks (mainly in the UK and the USA) who are supposed to have that gold in their vaults need to GIVE it back...
...which in turn could potentially trigger a race to repatriate national gold holdings

Neither Fort Knox nor the Federal Reserve (the world’s two biggest gold depositories) have been independently audited in recent times

The status of the gold held in the Bundesbank (home to the world’s third-largest hoard) is somewhat unclear

The practice of leasing gold by Central Banks has been going on so long that it even predates the time when Alan Greenspan advocated" sound money"

The gold ‘physical market’ is approximately 100 times the size of the amount of actual underlying metal by which it is purportedly backed

The top four bullion banks, or ‘commercials’ on the COMEX continue to run what we shall politely call ‘significant’ short positions

In the three trading sessions since Chavez made his announcement on August 17th, gold has added almost $100, coming within a whisker of $1,900 before settling back at another record weekly close.

Market weakness? Maybe. Fear of further problems in Europe? Quite possibly. Continuing disgust with the world’s fiat currencies? Highly likely.

The beginning of a race amongst the world’s Central Banks to grab physical gold? Now THAT would be something to see...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/things...al-gold-cartel

[OTPTT]

They will never get it back. If they do attempt to ship it back the ship will be sunk so deep a recovery would not be possible. And if the sunken ship were found and recovery possible, there will be no gold found as it wouldn't have been put on the ship in the first place.

[Rick Ronsavelle]

The gold bars will be covered with a layer of tungsten, in order to fake him out.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Henry.

Dealing in gold is like bookmaking. The broker or bookie pulls in the punter and doesn't give a fuck about who gets the gold or who wins the horse race as long as he gets his 12% overround - in legal tender - no matter what form that may take.

That's how Jacob Lipschitz gets to live in the big house on Nob Hill.

He sells shiny stuff to white mugs and niggers and then obtains material goods with their money.

There's no scam involved - necessarily. Nothing has absolute value or intrinsic value except in relation to some thing in some circumstance. We're talking relative value, comparative value here. That ought to be obvious. Why try to turn it into something more or less than it is? I hate this hysteria from clowns like Zeth.

Jews run the money. They inflate the currency. That means the value goes down over time. You have to fight that somehow, or you can just stick your extra money in a bank account and get 0% return and 10% loss via inflation. Whereas if you bought gold when it was 300 or 500, it's now gone up basically 5x since then, or about 20% increase in dollar price annually for 5-6 years in a row. So you would have outpaced inflation.

That's fact. That's not a jewish scam.

Now, it could reverse that pattern for the next 10-20 years and go back to the 300 an oz. Maybe it will. But I doubt it will because the fundamental reason people want it hasn't changed, since the ZOG printing presses are still running.

It's risk. Whatever you do with money is risk. Obviously if you need a house, or air, or food, then turn whatever assets you have into what you absolutely NEED first. But hopefully Whites get beyond that and SAVE money, like jews do. But the question is, where to put that money? For the last many years, assets in dollars have LOST value day to day. Gold has gained. What other options are out there? You could buy land/real estate. Many people have made money doing that; many have lost money. There are millions of other options: you could invest in antique cuckoo clocks, your brother-in-law's gutter-cleaning service. You could buy guns. You could buy old watches, or baseball cards. You could fly to vegas and put it all on red or black. You could bet it on the NFC in the Super Bowl. You could bury it in a jar in the yard. You could turn it into $100 bills and cut a slice in your mattress and hide it in there. You could start an earthworm business to provide bait to fishermen. You could buy a condominium in a resort area. There are a million ways to invest your money. If you want something that is simple, small, concrete, not too heavy, fairly easily liquidated, pretty sure not to drop to zero, fairly likely to increase more than inflation will over a given period - then you turn some dollars into gold kruggerrands, maple leafs, bars or such. Or maybe silver. There's no "scam" anywhere in here, just different risk calculations.

There's no one answer. It's simplisitc and wrong to simply call gold or anything else a jewish scam. Gold is one investment opportunity, and whether it's good or bad depends on the particular circumstances. If we had a small, honest government printing notes backed by gold, and allowing others to mint and print money as competition, then I bet the price of gold would fall, and it wouldn't be as good of an investment. We don't have that. We have jews running the Fed and simply making new dollars out of thin air, driving down the purchasing power of dollars overall. So it behooves us to look for other options, and gold, as the libertarians, most notably, have recommended over the last 5-10, has been a great option - better than just about any other investment option you can name. That might change tomorrow, but the likelihood is the libertarians will see it coming before others do, since they pay more attention than most.

As for your bookie comment, it's juvenile. What, do you expect people to provide services without making any money? That's what vigorish is. Same thing with gold producers. Of course they're going to make profit on what they sell, otherwise they wouldn't be in business. But I would be very surprised if they kept their assets in the dollars used to facilitate the transaction, since they better than anyone ought to know just how precarious the value of the dollar is. At the same time, I'm sure gold producers don't want to keep ALL their assets in gold, so naturally they will use some of their gold to get other assets, probably foreign currencies, new capital investments, or maybe put some in the stock market. That's just ordinary asset diversification - which is devised according to the needs of the individual or business, as it sees fit, depending on its brainpower and the people it looks to for advice.

Gold can be manipulated to a small extent; PAPER currencies can be manipulated hugely and quickly. That's the difference. You can't fake gold. You can fake dollars. And, as I've said, and the bottom line with gold, it has NEVER gone to being worthless in human history. So the point that it has no intrinsic value is academic - it's a point made by hysterics like Zeth O'Gray who are pushing an ideological agenda. In the real world, gold always has been worth something, and almost surely always will be.

[ray bateson]

Originally Posted by Rick Ronsavelle

The gold bars will be covered with a layer of tungsten, in order to fake him out.

Doncha mean chewy tungsten dipped in gold chocolate?

[Zeth O. Grady]

Oh, god, he still thinks precious metal is money.

The Austrian School brainwashing is strong with this one.

[Henry.]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

There's no scam involved - necessarily. Nothing has absolute value or intrinsic value except in relation to some thing in some circumstance. We're talking relative value, comparative value here. That ought to be obvious

Contradictions abound.

You might deny it but the fact is: abstract 'value' in gold is being driven up by demand, and that demand is being driven by those who give very little gold in exchange for a lot of paper money.

Gold can be manipulated to a small extent; PAPER currencies can be manipulated hugely and quickly. That's the difference. You can't fake gold. You can fake dollars.

This isn't 'worthless paper'' it's US dollars, the worlds reserve currency, and US dollars go a long way in the world market place - especially the third world market place.

Available gold is finite. As a physical material, it cannot be increased beyond that which is already in hand or due to be mined (which is not a great amount) therefore in the past 80 years the price of gold has been increased by Fiat (decree) on three occasions:

1934 - 75% increase from $20 < $35 - convertable for trade.

1972 - 9% increase from $35 < $38 - non convertable

1973 - 11% increase from $38 < $42

In 1971 Nixon reneged on Bretton Woods by ending convertability of the dollar to gold.

This allowed US dolars to become a proxy for gold. Dollars can be printed but gold can't. Once gold was protected from the prey of convertability it became easy to expand the dollar reserve, thereby abusing the Federal government's promise to pay the bearer: Paper, cheques, plastic, numbers on a keyboard, etc, have been turned into virtual gold, and used in wild speculation(s) in an effort to buy up the world, and wage debt racking wars against Islamic nations who refuse fractional reserve banking, the joys of 'democracy', and the chance to pay tribute to Israel.

You can't separate Jewish manipulation of the economy from Jewish manipulation of gold or any other commodity for that matter. That is: not unless you pretend that when fixing the price for gold, those who perform that function ignore their natural tendencies and act against the interests of the tribe and those other forces allied to it.

That's fact. That's not a jewish scam.

Scam: - a stratagem for gain; a swindle - Collins English Dicionary.

The price of gold is fixed twice a day in London. This process began in 1919 when the five principle bullion traders came together to form The London Gold Market Fixing Ltd.

Until May 2004, N.M Rothschild had permanent chairmanship of this group which met at the Rothschild HQ in New Court. Since 2004 the fix has taken place via telephone.

Process

A tradition of the London gold fixing was that participants could raise a small Union Flag on their desk to pause proceedings. Under the telephone fixing system, participants can register a pause by saying the word "flag", and the chair ends the meeting with the phrase "There are no flags, and we're fixed".

Gold fixing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lol...even they recognise what they are doing is rigged!

No one knows why Rothschild resigned, but given that; a) only the five most powerful traders can form this group; b) Rothschild's position as chairman was permanent, and; c) they weren't forced out: It's likely that Rothschild have taken a tactical position where they prefer their omnipotence in gold to be rather less obvious than it has been.

Perhaps they see a potential for trouble in having the firm of Rothschild ''fixing'' the price of gold in the event of a global economy being wedded to a universal gold standard: an insanely dangerous idea but one that's being pushed by some as the best way forward.

Now, it could reverse that pattern for the next 10-20 years and go back to the 300 an oz. Maybe it will.

This former price of $300 isn't relevant to the guy who just bought at $1750 but it seems to be the point from which you arrive at your opinion.

Let's expand the window to take in a bit more of the view and see what else might be relative:

In 1933/34 Roosevelt confiscated gold @$20 per oz (something you've not mentioned) and with one stroke of his magic fiat wand increased its value by 75% to $35 per oz - US gold then remained fixed at that price ($35) until Nixon's action in 1971/72

Now look at the relative worth of $35.00 from 1933 when applied to a US 'unskilled wage' earner in 71.

In 1971 the relative worth of $35.00 (Gold price) from 1933 was:

$109.00 using the Consumer Price Index

$114.00 using the GDP deflator

$267.00 using the value of consumer bundle

$321.00 using the unskilled wage

$338.00 using the Production Worker Compensation

$423.00 using the nominal GDP per capita

$699.00 using the relative share of GDP

It's plain to see: In 1971 with gold still at $35 per oz, a working man's dollar could buy him around 10x the amount of gold that his earned dollar would have bought him in 1933 - that's if he had been allowed to buy gold (US domestic ownership of gold was forbidden and this restriction wasn't lifted until Gerald Ford changed the law in 1974 and convertibility only applied to the settlement of foreign trade).

This was bad news for people (like the Rothschilds) who had seen the value of their gold destroyed by the rise of America as an Industrial powerhouse that gave its people the opportunity to vastly improve their financial standing in the world - The workers were on the UP and the international hoarders of gold were on the way DOWN!

Similarly woeful in 1971, was golds standing against the Consumer Price Index.

What $35 of gold bought in 1933 cost $109 to purchase in 1971 which is 3x more. But $35 dollars of earned income had risen in relative terms to $321: thus buying the worker almost 10x more than an oz of gold and 3x more than his wage did in 1933.

After 38 years the purchasing power of gold in the US had fallen 66% while the purchasing power of earned income had risen 300% - That was real money based on the material output of a great industrial nation, busy going about its business.

Now have a look at the relative worth of $35.00 from 1933 in relation to an unskilled wage in 2010.

In 2010, the relative worth of $35.00 (Gold price) from 1933 was:

$589.00 using the Consumer Price Index

$493.00 using the GDP deflator

$1,650.00 using the unskilled wage

$2,100.00 using the Production Worker Compensation

$3,650.00 using the nominal GDP per capita

$9,010.00 using the relative share of GDP

In 2010 the average price for an ounce of gold was $1,224 not the $1,650 it needed to be to have its 1933 value against the 'unskilled wage' - Gold was still about 25% shy of the value that Roosevelt had inflated into it with his massive hike of 75%.in 1933.

Gold is currently trading at about $1750 so let's admit that it has taken 79 years and the complete destruction of western industry and western society to restore the 'value' of gold to the $35 it was in 1933: and with it; the wealth of the great holders of gold such as the Rothschilds.

Just because the guy who signed up at $300 is feeling very good about himself; it still remains a scam: As great a scam as anything that Nathan Rothschild pulled off in London while the dying were still crying out for their mothers on the killing fields of Waterloo.