Vanguard News Network
VNN Media
VNN Digital Library
VNN Reader Mail
VNN Broadcasts

Old February 15th, 2013 #41
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

I think this plumber was so baffled by the complexity of the softener that he just threw his hands up.

I don't see any other solution, Fred. You're going to have to burn your house down and start over.
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #42
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

I'm sorry, Fred. It's not funny when you don't have water and then can't get it fixed.
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #43
Fred
Commie Killer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,462
Fred
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse View Post
I think this plumber was so baffled by the complexity of the softener that he just threw his hands up.

I don't see any other solution, Fred. You're going to have to burn your house down and start over.

What!
It is tempting. I don't want to live out of my truck.
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #44
Fred
Commie Killer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,462
Fred
Default

Seriously though.


He checked everything and all is well. It has to be an air leak in the well.

The well guy will not return my calls. I have no idea why. I am thinking about driving over to his house. He is the one who drilled the well originally. The other one is in the next town.

I guess I will just have to drink beer.
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #45
Jimmy Marr
Moderator
 
Jimmy Marr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jew S. A.
Posts: 3,674
Jimmy Marr
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
Seriously though.


He checked everything and all is well. It has to be an air leak in the well.

The well guy will not return my calls. I have no idea why. I am thinking about driving over to his house. He is the one who drilled the well originally. The other one is in the next town.

I guess I will just have to drink beer.
Is the pump down at the bottom of the well?
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #46
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

I'm happy to hear it, Fred. I hope it continues this way, in spite of the fun we've had at your expense. It's especially good to get it going for low cost and on a Friday, so you don't have to suffer through the weekend.
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #47
Jimmy Marr
Moderator
 
Jimmy Marr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jew S. A.
Posts: 3,674
Jimmy Marr
Default

In case you want some entertainment with your beer.

 
Old February 15th, 2013 #48
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

lol

Thanks, George.

I totally misread that. I thought Fred was saying 'all is well' because the plumber had tweaked a little something during the check. And to celebrate, beer!
 
Old February 17th, 2013 #50
Randal Goode
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 495
Randal Goode
Default

Hello, I'm a pretty good maintenance man. I've been able to fix everything I have ever set out to do. (Yes, I know, but I speak a fact. It's really just a matter of being methodical and patient; not bragging.)

Anyway, it is almost impossible to diagnose, much less fix, a problem by not having a hands on look-see. Nevertheless, we can probably do this providing willingness to put in some tedious you-look-and-give-a-decent-description and me or someone responds in a step by step fashion.

First, you probably have a combination of problems. The hot water coming out of the cold side almost has to be a separate problem. A poster above was right when realizing that it doesn't happen by just being pressed out the cold input to the hot water heater. I have never heard of such a case. Pressure relief valve and other things. But heed this while we are on it: if your hot water heater (HWH) is energized and not completely full of water, IT WILL EXPLODE. I've seen it more than once. (Pressure valves are actually more for show unless nearly brand new in many regions that have hard water deposit troubles, which you must since you have a softener. They quickly seize up with deposits and won't work right. That is the reason why when you screw with one by lifting up that lever it is hard to get the damn thing to quit dripping or even flowing out the pipe that hangs off the valve on the side of the HWH. Sometimes they flat won't quit after you open one and you have to take it off and get a new one. Hard water deposits.) So if your heater is on and not completely full, you get steam build-up and free volume for it to pressurize to the explosion point. No, it won't kill you or anything like that, but it is a hell of a mess and problem, especially if it happens and you are not home or outside or something and don't know it. It can steam your entire house over and ruin damn near everything or at least in the basement or wherever the heater is before you know what's happened. So be aware of that anytime you turn off a main or valve into your HWH. Always cut off the power if you are not absolutely sure the tank is full of water. And of course the least that will happen is your heating elements will be shot if not emerged in water and the power is on.

What CAN and generally is the cause of hot water coming out the cold side is a bad faucet. Especially the single handle jobs. This could even cause the other problems you are having, the rumbling pipes, bad pressure and so forth. And yes, Murphy's law, it can even be multiple faucets failing at once. Had a guy once laughed and then swore that couldn't be the problem. Guess what? Four faucets were bad. As a matter of fact my faucet on the bathtub is screwed up right now and doing it. And it is one of those expensive ones. You turn it on and only hot water comes out, no matter which way you turn it (and I mean all the way on hot). Sometimes only cold water and you got to screw with it for a few minutes turning it off and then back on before it goes back to all hot. Sometimes the pipes will hum and rumble and the pressure is low. I haven't replaced it yet because I only take hot showers and the rumbling and pressure deal only happens every once in awhile. It was happening when I moved back here from when my sister lived here and had new faucets installed. I took it apart but it must have been bad from the factory; there is a piece missing or the ball is defective.

But what you first need to do is start right at the point where the main comes into your house from the well. That is what I would do first; since we don't know exactly what all the trouble is or where exactly it starts. You've got a problem with water pressure and supply too, according to the description of trouble you gave. It may well be that your pump down in the ground is not working right. ( I don't really think that is it but we don't know.) So what you have to do to find out is disconnect the main BEFORE it reaches the bladder. Then turn the pump on and see if it is working right. Hook up a hose or something so you don't spray water all over hell. But find out if you are getting the right volume of water from the well and also if it is STEADY. That is, let it run long enough to see that the pump is not kicking on and off or if it is loosing its prime or anything. (That's why you need to hook a hose or something up so you can do something with the water as it comes out. Run it to a drain or outside. It should have a lot of pressure on it.)

Doing the above check will tell you if your pump is good or shot. Hopefully it is all right and the problem is further up the line. Then, assum9ing the pmp is good and working right, your next step is to hook the main back up and next move to the bladder. Unhook the line coming OUT of the bladder. You will have to put a temporary shut off valve on the output of the bladder here if there is not already one. If there is, then disconnect the line past the valve. (Again, hook up a hose or something to be able to control and drain the water.) Turn the pump on. You want the bladder to fill up with water so you can see if it is working right. Open and shut the valve and drain water. Let it fill up again. Examine the bladder carefully and see if it is working right. And of course your pump should be shutting off when you have the valve turned off and the bladder can fill completely like it is supposed to. Check and make sure that is working right. You are getting the ideal. Check. Check. Check. Make sure it is all working so far. But I think here is ONE of your problems. It sounds like your bladder is probably bad. Find out. See exactly what is wrong and where it is loosing pressure and all that. You may be able to fix it but you may not and will have to get a new one.

After you get finished and either fix the trouble or discover it is working right after all ( I don't think this will be the case), move on down to the softener and start the process again. Do this anyway since I'm pretty sure you have additional problems beyond a bad bladder. You're working methodically to isolate and diagnose each part of the system. Divide and conquer, the same as anything else.

When you get to the softener, do the same thing and figure out what if anything is going on there. It may or may not be a problem there. It may be another reason or for some reason just part of the trouble before it that is causing your water to taste like salt. You just have to do the checks to find out.

Work with that method right on down the line and isolate, discover and fix the problems. And at the end I think you are going to have at least one faucet problem in the mix, too. But maybe not.

But the foregoing is all that you can do; all anyone will do, high dollar professional or not. You just have to check each part in its sequential order from beginning to end until you eliminate the problem(s). You can do it. And after you locate the troubles, plumbing is just a pain in the ass and for non-full time plumbers almost ALWAYS involves SEVERAL trips to the hardware store or supply place before you get all the right size fittings and parts you need. It's just the way it is since you don't know all the right sizes, names, pieces, etc., and have them on hand out in your truck or parts bin. Trial and error and trips to the store. Count on it. Plumbing uses multiple sizes and different fittings and washers. Pain in the ass. But you can do it. Just take your time and be as patient as you can (after cussing and throwing and probably tightening a fitting too tight and breaking it off, or tightening the nut too tight after replacing the packing in a valve and cracking it like I did a few weeks ago, lol).

But try that and get back to us and maybe I or someone can help you some more when you know more detail. Just do it yourself and save a lot of money. A plumber is pretty much going to do just what I outlined above. So can you. Good luck and hope it is not something too expensive.
 
Old February 17th, 2013 #51
Jimmy Marr
Moderator
 
Jimmy Marr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jew S. A.
Posts: 3,674
Jimmy Marr
Default

>>>As a matter of fact my faucet on the bathtub is screwed up right now and doing it. And it is one of those expense ones.<<<

A lot of those newer/better ones are "pressure balanced". They're designed so if you're taking a shower and somebody opens a tap in another part of the house the pressure differential will be noticed and offset automatically by the shower/bath control and the water temperature will remain constant.

They can be tricky bastards. I fought my first one tooth and nail while trying to sweat it in. I thought since I had the mixer tap open it would release the hot air from the sweat and let the solder seal the joint. Nope.

After about 5 pinhole leaks, I figure out what was happening.

Anyway, that was a good write-up you did for Fred. We'll make a plumber out of him yet.

Can you imagine that "plumber" that came out there, and didn't run through the steps you've described. It's not rocket science. These guys don't want to work. They don't want to think. They just want to replace something/anything and move on. It's pitiful.

And then on the other hand, you get a good smart well-rounded guy like the one N.B. describes, who actually takes some initiative and does some trouble shooting and trial and error stuff and ends up screwing something up in the process and the homeowner get pissy about that.

I'm not saying you got pissy, N.B.. I'm sure you were a good sport about it, but it does happen and it does put a damper on service people using their imagination at all, and wanting to limit their work to fixing/replacing only obvious problems.
 
Old February 17th, 2013 #52
Randal Goode
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 495
Randal Goode
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Marr View Post
Is the pump down at the bottom of the well?
Yes, but that can't be all the problems that were described here. I don't think so. But you should be able to bring the pump and line up from the bottom of the well without too much trouble. They will generally lift out. You just pull the line up. The pump, water line and electric line will all come up together. Pull on the water line, not the electric line. And some systems have a thin cable that is attached and you use that to haul it all up. But don't pull it up by the power cord.

You may have to do some digging to get to the opening of the well top, but it should not be that much.

The water line is flexible and tough. Unless it is drastically ruptured, and it should not be, I don't think a small rupture or even several small ones would do much but cause the pump to have to run longer filling up the bladder. The bladder fills up and acts like a strong and tight balloon that keeps the water pressurized. It is the bladder that actually serves as your water supply. The pump works and brings water out of the well to the bladder that holds several or ten or so gallons of water. The "balloon" fills up and the pump cuts off. This "balloon" stays pressurized until you open a valve and get water. Once enough water goes out and the "balloon" shrinks in size, the pump kicks back on and refills it. But the "balloon" is squeezing the stored water and keeping it under pressure always, and if no valve is on anywhere the "balloon" stays full and tight, holding its water supply.

If the problem was the pump and/or the line from the pump and there was no problem at all with the bladder, the "balloon" simply would not fill and you would have no water at all or only a little water but it would still be pressurized. The water lines beyond the bladder would either be empty or still under pressure until the bladder filled back up. As long as there is water, there is pressure if the bladder is good.
 
Old February 17th, 2013 #53
Randal Goode
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 495
Randal Goode
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Marr View Post
>>>As a matter of fact my faucet on the bathtub is screwed up right now and doing it. And it is one of those expense ones.<<<

A lot of those newer/better ones are "pressure balanced". They're designed so if you're taking a shower and somebody opens a tap in another part of the house the pressure differential will be noticed and offset automatically by the shower/bath control and the water temperature will remain constant.

They can be tricky bastards. I fought my first one tooth and nail while trying to sweat it in. I thought since I had the mixer tap open it would release the hot air from the sweat and let the solder seal the joint. Nope.
Yeah, it's a Price Physter or whatever the name is. They are usually pretty good. I took it apart and messed with it about two hours one night trying to fix it. There are only two parts in it and I thought maybe something was positioned wrong so I tried rotating it to every position possible but the damn thing worked the very same--either all the way hot or all the way cold, no matter what I did. I figure either something is missing or the plastics were molded wrong. There simply is nothing you can do that fixes the problem. It's like it was made that way. It doesn't matter if any other valve is open or not.

My sister had it put in and it was in the winter so I think they just didn't notice it only put out hot water. After I moved there it turned to summer and that was the first I really noticed it. But by that time the damn warranty was up on it and I just don't care enough to shell out the money now to replace it or get new guts. One day I will get around to it but it really doesn't bother me much the way it is. Everybody else bitches, of course. But I haven't heard anybody volunteer to want to buy the new one, lol. SO I figure they can live with it too for the time being. I wouldn't stop anyone from buying the new one or putting it in, lol.
 
Old February 26th, 2013 #54
Fred
Commie Killer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,462
Fred
Default

All right,
I am getting to the bottom of this.

Yes, it is a problem at the bottom of the well. The well digger is out right replacing the "Check Valve". He is positive that is the cause of all my problems. All of them.

What is going on is that the air is coming out of the well mixed with water. It is causing the plumbing system to act haywire because none of the pressures are correct.

He claims I should be back to normal in a few hours. It is not a cheap fix but much better than digging a new well. For good measure he may give the well a chemical treatment to clean it out.
 
Old February 26th, 2013 #55
Jimmy Marr
Moderator
 
Jimmy Marr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jew S. A.
Posts: 3,674
Jimmy Marr
Default

Thanks for the concluding episode of this dilemma, Fred, particularly the part about the chemical treatment.

We at VNN are compulsive about final solutions.
 
Old February 26th, 2013 #56
Fred
Commie Killer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,462
Fred
Default

Cool, I am glad to have water again.

I hope this is the final solution.

Now we just need to stop the Jewish power base from destroying mankind.
 
Old February 26th, 2013 #57
Jimmy Marr
Moderator
 
Jimmy Marr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jew S. A.
Posts: 3,674
Jimmy Marr
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
Cool, I am glad to have water again.

I hope this is the final solution.

Now we just need to stop the Jewish power base from destroying mankind.
Yes, and hopefully this metaphor will have a salutary effect on Leonard's tendency to advocate softer solutions.
 
Old February 26th, 2013 #58
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Marr View Post
Yes, and hopefully this metaphor will have a salutary effect on Leonard's tendency to advocate softer solutions.
In my defense, I did advocate burning the house down and starting over. If this softie plumber is right, Fred would've had the same problem with the new house.

But at least he'd have known, man. He'd have known.

Now, there will always be a question.

Just joking, Fred. I'm so glad you have water.
 
Reply

Share


Thread
Display Modes


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 PM.
Page generated in 0.13280 seconds.