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Old February 10th, 2011 #241
Fred Streed
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Brett, you make some good points. I really do think the need for some kind of religion is hard wired into us. More accurately, a need for a sense of purpose is inherent in all of us.


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Originally Posted by Bret Masterson View Post

Sure I would prefer a society based on sanity & reason over superstition, but these can't save us from the Void. No matter how strongly I oppose religion it’s not going away; and pretending so lures atheists into science fiction which is no more real to me than Jeebus stories of the Bibble. Find a practical balance with others whites, and work with it. The business relationship analogy was a good one. My acceptance is of that fact. My ranting against religion only boasts I can face the terrors, and the void, ALONE, no Gods by my side. A notch in my stick, nothing more.
Religion may not go away. But that doesn't mean we should tolerate nonsense and lies posing as religion.

What xtians fail to understand is that there is nothing about a belief in evolution or science in general which precludes religion. Their problem with science is that it makes a mockery of their pet superstitions. To the average xtian, if you doubt their bible version of events you are automatically an atheist and out to destroy religion, which they seem to think begins and ends with xtianity.

I don't have a feeling of terror concerning death. I am not in a hurry to face it but I see no reason to worry too much about it. It is just what happens. It will happen to all of us, we cannot change it, it is part of Nature, nothing to fear. That doesn't mean we should waste our lives or throw them away, that is why Nature wired us with an instinct for self preservation.

Quote:
I want to add how I know religion will never end. It came when I watched my grandmother dying, and I realized I aided and abetted her Christ fantasy to the very end, in reading the Bible with her and fake praying. Because it made her feel good. Try telling your sweet old grandmother: “you’re going to die today, we can’t stop this, and every atom in your body will be scattered among the stars from whence it came… No part of your unique Oneness shall remain hereafter except in living memory. BYE”
A belief in xtianity helps to create these fears because it removes us from Nature and does make people feel alone and fearful when facing death. A religion that promoted the feeling that we are part of Nature and subject to it's laws would be far healthier. Old ladies could then face death with a comforting feeling of returning to the universe from which they were created, their mission completed. They could feel that like a drop of rain falling into the ocean, they would be returning to the source from which they came.

Quote:
Religion provides comfort for some people, and as the world will always be mean and nasty, lets just say, business is good for the clerics.
Religion, in the form of xtianity and the other superstition based religions, has became one of the meanest and nastiest things about the world.

Recently I was surfing a bullet casting forum, the Cast Boolits Forum. Most of these guys are fairly educated with technical backgrounds. Someone started a thread on whether or not we should continue to support Israel. There were maybe two guys who even remotely understood that the USA is being used as a tool by the izzies and that it is in our interests cut loose from Israel. Outside of a couple of posters who were fairly obviously jews almost all the rest of them based their arguments for continued support on the bible. One guy said right out that America receives it's blessing from God based on the amount of support we give Israel, and that these blessings will end if we fail to do our duty and support the izzies.

Xtianity isn't harmless.
 
Old February 10th, 2011 #242
Simo Häyhä
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Originally Posted by Fred Streed View Post
Recently I was surfing a bullet casting forum, the Cast Boolits Forum. Most of these guys are fairly educated with technical backgrounds. Someone started a thread on whether or not we should continue to support Israel. There were maybe two guys who even remotely understood that the USA is being used as a tool by the izzies and that it is in our interests cut loose from Israel. Outside of a couple of posters who were fairly obviously jews almost all the rest of them based their arguments for continued support on the bible. One guy said right out that America receives it's blessing from God based on the amount of support we give Israel, and that these blessings will end if we fail to do our duty and support the izzies.
I think you're confusing Christianity with Neo-cohenism. Even though the latter (claims to) follow(s) the former.

Important Warning: have a bucket by your side before clicking the play button on this video. Trust me, you will need it.


Zese ahh gud Goyim, yesh!
 
Old February 10th, 2011 #243
Fred Streed
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Originally Posted by Rick Ronsavelle View Post
. . .including fruits, nuts, and vegetables. . .
LOL! Well of course there is the Little Green Man sub sect of xtianity which claims Aryans were brought here by little green men in flying saucers and it sez so in the bible, by gawd.
 
Old February 10th, 2011 #244
Fred Streed
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Originally Posted by Simo Häyhä View Post
I think you're confusing Christianity with Neo-cohenism. Even though the latter (claims to) follow(s) the former.
No I'm not. Call it what you like, the result is still the same. Not good.

That video should be admitted in court as evidence of child abuse.
 
Old February 10th, 2011 #245
Thad Charles
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Originally Posted by Bret Masterson View Post
Well blame all multiculturalism on Christians? I think not. White liberals are probably even more multicultural than your Catholic priest, and many of those are down on religion.
They certainly aren't stemming the Jew tide and the multiculturds that have flowed and are still flowing with them. That's because communism is the bastard son of Christianity. It's no shock that they're similar in terms of the "love everyone", "equality", "racism=bad", etc.
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The decline starts when a people start to lose a sense of themselves, their self-respect, morality, pride over a unique identity – a natural extension of racial ambiguity.
No, the decline is happening now, it's already started because Judeo-Christianity promoted race-mixing, I don't know, a half century ago? Not that there wasn't miscegenation before then but it's beginning to hit a fever pitch.
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Reckless-excessive military adventuring has also ended more civilizations than religion has (Ancient Greece and Rome come to mind, oh and Nazi Germany).
Oh bullfuck, get the fuck out of here with your anti-Nazi bullshit. Read a goddamn history book. Nazi Germany's military "expeditions" weren't reckless you steaming pile of cow shit. Go back to Stormdrain and whine about the Nazis and their eeeeeeeeeeeevil invasions. Taking over the world and forcing us to speak German! Oh my! I noticed they enjoy doing it there.

And no, it can be argued that Christianity ended the Roman Empire. That's what Klassen thought and I agree it's a pretty convincing hypothesis.
Quote:

Sure I would prefer a society based on sanity & reason over superstition, but these can't save us from the Void. No matter how strongly I oppose religion it’s not going away; and pretending so lures atheists into science fiction which is no more real to me than Jeebus stories of the Bibble. Find a practical balance with others whites, and work with it. The business relationship analogy was a good one. My acceptance is of that fact. My ranting against religion only boasts I can face the terrors, and the void, ALONE, no Gods by my side. A notch in my stick, nothing more.

I want to add how I know religion will never end. It came when I watched my grandmother dying, and I realized I aided and abetted her Christ fantasy to the very end, in reading the Bible with her and fake praying. Because it made her feel good. Try telling your sweet old grandmother: “you’re going to die today, we can’t stop this, and every atom in your body will be scattered among the stars from whence it came… No part of your unique Oneness shall remain hereafter except in living memory. BYE”

Religion provides comfort for some people, and as the world will always be mean and nasty, lets just say, business is good for the clerics.
blah blah blah I really don't care. The point of my post was to, ahem, POINT OUT that the Chrissies are pissing all over scientific advancement and of course they don't care. They don't need to care because everything's going to be all hunky-dory in heaven whereas in the real world, their descendants are going to be festering in a multicult shit-hole like modern-day India. Except this time it's going to be worse, it's going to be a Jew horror state as outlined by the Protocols.
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Old February 11th, 2011 #246
Bret Masterson
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Originally Posted by Thad Charles View Post
...That's because communism is the bastard son of Christianity. It's no shock that they're similar in terms of the "love everyone", "equality", "racism=bad", etc.
I call BS on that. The Soviets would tolerate no influence of the church, that's why they went after Christians. Maybe that steaming pile of pucky you call your intellect can show how Christianity gave birth to Communism?

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Oh bullfuck, get the fuck out of here with your anti-Nazi bullshit. Read a goddamn history book. Nazi Germany's military "expeditions" weren't reckless you steaming pile of cow shit. Go back to Stormdrain and whine about the Nazis and their eeeeeeeeeeeevil invasions. Taking over the world and forcing us to speak German! Oh my! I noticed they enjoy doing it there.
Wanna call me a Jew and be done with it?

Quote:
And no, it can be argued that Christianity ended the Roman Empire. That's what Klassen thought and I agree it's a pretty convincing hypothesis.

blah blah blah I really don't care. The point of my post was to, ahem, POINT OUT that the Chrissies are pissing all over scientific advancement and of course they don't care. They don't need to care because everything's going to be all hunky-dory in heaven whereas in the real world, their descendants are going to be festering in a multicult shit-hole like modern-day India. Except this time it's going to be worse, it's going to be a Jew horror state as outlined by the Protocols.
I thought your point was Christianity was responsible for the death of the civilizations it created? Actually, I see now you have no point.
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #247
Bret Masterson
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Originally Posted by Fred Streed View Post
Brett, you make some good points. I really do think the need for some kind of religion is hard wired into us. More accurately, a need for a sense of purpose is inherent in all of us.
Ya purpose can be your own, work, art, anything - some people lack the imagination to create their own journey. I think it's spiritual weakness to rely on mass-market spirituality created by churchs. Still I recognized some people need a crutch when it comes to death and problems.

Quote:
Religion may not go away. But that doesn't mean we should tolerate nonsense and lies posing as religion.

...

Xtianity isn't harmless.
Absolutely I don't give it a pass. As I said nothing stops me from speaking out against the lies and manipulation of the church. You have the laity on one hand who only want to know there is a hereafter for death - then you have the control freaks, Zionists & corporate Crusaders who ply the masses with religion. Greed and power are at the end of it.
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #248
Karl Radl
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Originally Posted by Bret Masterson View Post
I call BS on that. The Soviets would tolerate no influence of the church, that's why they went after Christians. Maybe that steaming pile of pucky you call your intellect can show how Christianity gave birth to Communism?
What you mean apart from Christianity creating the basic assumptions that Marxism works on?

The basic flow goes as follows:

'We are all Equal in the sight of God: therefore we should all be Equal on Earth.'

To

'We are all Equal as we all have the same rights given to us by God.'

To

'We are all Equal as we all have the same natural rights.'

Which is where Marxism then takes the point and twists the Christian concept (not implausibly I might add) that the 'weak' and 'meek' should rule the Earth to mean the 'proletariat' and that because capitalism creates inequality where there should be none then a revolution of the 'advanced workers' should occur when the 'contradictions of capitalism' become most evident.

I'm not even going to get started on the numerous influential Christian Socialist groups and individuals.

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Wanna call me a Jew and be done with it?
I'd suggest you read a decent book or two, because you patently know little about history and certainly very little outside the pop history books on the Third Reich.

Why not read John Mosier's latest one: 'Deathride: Hitler versus Stalin' (2010, Simon & Schuster) or perhaps Constantin Plekanhov's recent 'Stalin's Folly'?
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Old February 11th, 2011 #249
Simo Häyhä
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Originally Posted by Karl Radl View Post
What you mean apart from Christianity creating the basic assumptions that Marxism works on?

The basic flow goes as follows:

'We are all Equal in the sight of God: therefore we should all be Equal on Earth.'

To

'We are all Equal as we all have the same rights given to us by God.'

To

'We are all Equal as we all have the same natural rights.'

Which is where Marxism then takes the point and twists the Christian concept (not implausibly I might add) that the 'weak' and 'meek' should rule the Earth to mean the 'proletariat' and that because capitalism creates inequality where there should be none then a revolution of the 'advanced workers' should occur when the 'contradictions of capitalism' become most evident.

I'm not even going to get started on the numerous influential Christian Socialist groups and individuals.
This reminds me of a passage from Twilight of the Idols:

Quote:
Christian and anarchist. — When the anarchist, as the mouthpiece of the declining strata of society, demands with a fine indignation what is "right," "justice," and "equal rights," he is merely under the pressure of his own uncultured state, which cannot comprehend the real reason for his suffering — what it is that he is poor in: life.

A causal instinct asserts itself in him: it must be somebody's fault that he is in a bad way.

Also, the "fine indignation" itself soothes him; it is a pleasure for all wretched devils to scold: it gives a slight but intoxicating sense of power. Even plaintiveness and complaining can give life a charm for the sake of which one endures it: there is a fine dose of revenge in every complaint; one charges one's own bad situation, and under certain circumstances even one's own badness, to those who are different, as if that were an injustice, a forbidden privilege. "If I am canaille, you ought to be too" — on such logic are revolutions made.

Complaining is never any good: it stems from weakness. Whether one charges one's misfortune to others or to oneself — the socialist does the former; the Christian, for example, the latter — really makes no difference. The common and, let us add, the unworthy thing is that it is supposed to be somebody's fault that one is suffering; in short, that the sufferer prescribes the honey of revenge for himself against his suffering. The objects of this need for revenge, as a need for pleasure, are mere occasions: everywhere the sufferer finds occasions for satisfying his little revenge. If he is a Christian — to repeat it once more — he finds them in himself. The Christian and the anarchist are both decadents. When the Christian condemns, slanders, and besmirches "the world," his instinct is the same as that which prompts the socialist worker to condemn, slander, and besmirch society. The "last judgment" is the sweet comfort of revenge — the revolution, which the socialist worker also awaits, but conceived as a little farther off. The "beyond" — why a beyond, if not as a means for besmirching this world?
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #250
Moose
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Horseshit. Abstract gobbledygook.

They built a freemason lodge in my town. What is freemasonry? A bunch of old guys drinking beers together and having pancakes on Sunday, throwing each other a favor here and there out in the world. I could go off about freemasons in the lodge being a bunch of nigger lovers because of their ideas of Liberty, Fraternity, and Equality, but I try to think harder than that.

Slavery was around in this country just a little more than 150 years ago. Spanish Conquistadors and Englishmen slaughtered entire races on this continent. The Inquisitors smoked jews left and right, drove the sand niggers out of Southwestern Europe. I could go on. All in "Christian nations," and in some cases, in the very name of their religions.

Oh, oh, but these concepts, these concepts!

Not intended as direct response to poster:
Quote:
What you mean apart from Christianity creating the basic assumptions that Marxism works on?
Communism is directly descended from Christian concepts? Directly? Try reading Plato's Republic sometime. People have been trying to incorporate tribal ways of life, communal-ism into the social strata, almost at the very birth of philosophy (Plato and philosophy itself is the very product of a mercantile society ironically). What about age old democracy? Is this too rooted in the notion of Christian equality?

How about the populist overthrow of the French Monarchy, in which those revolutionaries wanted to destroy the Church as well? If anything, Christianity enforced the old ways, those..."classical" values so many admire, far longer into the advance of civilization than they otherwise would have been. How about Feudalism co-rising with the Church?

When it's Marxist revolution, it's Christ-insanity as the culprit of forefather. When, at any time, a populace is too cowardly to overthrow their oppressors in non-Marxist fashion, it's the slave mentality of Christ-insanity.

It's like Linder says, you can't attribute the great things to Christianity, but rather the credit is due to white men. But then those same people fail to point the blame at ideas they don't like on white men; rather, it's Christ-insanity!

Not meant as direct response to poster:
Quote:
This reminds me of a passage from Twilight of the Idols:
Nietzsche, being descended from a long line of Lutheran ministers and "working" his adult career as a college professor, as an intellectual, is as pompous an asshole as any of those types around today. Standing at his podium, acting like he knows how shit works. I bet if the proletariat's collective "will to power" ever came knocking on his university's door as we so often saw in revolutionary attitude towards intellectuals, he'd turn all Christian all of the sudden and get all "slave-morality" about it like a little girl.

It's not that I so much mind Christian bashing, it's how it's done. The misfiring of logic, the broad sweeping generalizations. Nietzsche was so anti-Christian because he was a thinking man, he had to overcome his father's thinking. His life was a thinking life, his struggles were thinking struggles. This I think is really the birth of his Ubermensch and morality ideas, overcoming his own brain. Like the many of you, who grew up in evangelical Christ-insanity, projecting your people's crap onto the rest of good, hardy, racial, war making Christians of times gone by. People don't think, they live. Christianity has been nothing more than the backdrop of the West, taking all the credit, and with some people now, all the buck. Christianity deserves it's flak certainly, but good lawd ya'll, make some sense of it. Put some focus into it. Get off these conceptualizations.

The problem with both the religious nuts who inspire nutty action with nutty ideas, and the anti-Christs, is they both take concepts, way, way too seriously.

Remember kids, "words have no meaning" as the wacky gunman said.
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #251
Fredrick
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Quote:
What you mean apart from Christianity creating the basic assumptions that Marxism works on?
http://faithandheritage.com/2011/01/...o-nationalism/

Quote:
A Biblical Defense of Ethno-Nationalism
Ethno-nationalism is a belief system that affirms a traditional Christian understanding of families, tribes, and nations. Ethno-nationalism holds that nations are defined and rooted in common heredity, and that the foundations of a nation are based on common ancestry, language, culture, religion, and social customs.

What are the primary factors that bind a nation together? Is it common ancestry or common ideas? In a sense, ethno-nationalism is redundant. It is evident that the English word nation has been traditionally defined by birth, not merely geographic or political boundaries. The word nation in the English language is related to natal, which means birth, as in a neo-natal ward. On Christmas we celebrate Christ’s nativity. You are a native of the land of your birth. But if this is true, why even speak of ethno-nationalism since it is redundant? Why not simply defend the concept of nationalism? The reason is that in recent history we have seen the ascendancy of the concept of the proposition nation. A proposition nation is supposed to be a group of people who are united by a common ideology rather than by common heredity, but as we shall see, a proposition nation is a contradiction in terms.

The question that we as orthodox Christians must ask is, How does the Bible use the term nation? What kind of nation does the Bible promote? Does the Bible endorse a more traditional definition of a nation? Or does the Bible promote the idea of a propositional nation, the proposition being Christian faith? It is my goal to demonstrate that the Bible in fact promotes the traditional concept a nation as an aggregation of people who share a common lineage.
Quote:
The Meaning and Usage of the Word Nation in the Bible
The Bible is predominantly written in the Hebrew and Greek languages. The Biblical word used in the Greek New Testament and Septuagint translation of the Old Testament is the word ethnos. 1 This word is related to our English word ethnicity and denotes those of a common lineage. This definition is also consistent with how the word nation is used in the Bible. Nations are first mentioned in the Table of Nations listed in Genesis chapter 10. The Table of Nations classifies the people descended from Noah after the Biblical Flood. These nations are all listed by heredity, like branches off a tree that has Noah for its trunk. Nations are enumerated as an extension of families,2 and the usage of the word nation is consistent throughout the Bible. After a number of generations had passed after the Flood, a man named Nimrod tried to build an empire. His kingdom was called Babel, and he united several different groups of people by his charismatic leadership. The people under Nimrod set out to build a city and a tower as a monument to their commitment to political unity. God takes notice of this arrangement and proclaims that this will cause evil to go unrestrained. 3 God resolves to confuse the language of the Babel builders in order that men might henceforth be kept from uniting into one body politic. This is a strong passage that demonstrates that national boundaries and divisions are commensurate with the natural order that God has ordained.
Quote:
Deuteronomy 32:8 tells us that nations were divided by a special act of God’s providence. We read that the Most High divided the nations their inheritance and separated the sons of Adam, and that God set the boundaries of the nations. God’s dividing the inheritance to the various nations is a positive and intentional work of God’s providence. This means that God did not merely allow the nations to be divided but that He caused this to happen for man’s own good.
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Pentecost sanctified the legitimacy of separate nationality rather than saying this is something we should outgrow. In fact, even in the new earth to come, after the Second Coming of Christ, we are told that the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of the heavenly Jerusalem, and the kings of the earth shall bring the glory and the honor – the cultural treasures – of the nations into it… But nowhere in Scripture are any indications to be found that such peoples should ever be amalgamated into one huge nation. 14

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Remember the days of old; consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you, your elders, and they will tell you. When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. - Deuteronomy 32:7-8
The Bible doesn't support marxism it says the opposite.
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Old February 11th, 2011 #252
Rick Ronsavelle
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Marx's "from each according to ability, to each according to need" was sourced here:

Matthew 25:15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to each according to his ability. And he went abroad at once.
Acts 2:45 And they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, according as anyone had need.
Acts 4:32-35 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #253
Mike in Denver
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I love bible stories.

From the book of Mike:

Mikey 12:15 And the good and godly man did take 15 talents, and with good intent did give them 5 to each of three virgins.

And the first virgin, being of frivolous mind, did spend the 5 talents on gifts, both for her and some for the good and godly man.

And the second virgin, being of cautious mind, did take of her 5 talents and put them away in a secret place, where they neither lost nor gained value.

And the third virgin, being of wise mind, did invest of her 5 talents, thereby earning an additional 2 talents.

Now, of the three virgins, which did the good and godly man take as wife?

Mikey 12:16 Therefore, the good and godly man did marry the one with the biggest tits.

Mike
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Old February 11th, 2011 #254
Fred Streed
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Originally Posted by Moose View Post
Horseshit. Abstract gobbledygook.

Slavery was around in this country just a little more than 150 years ago. Spanish Conquistadors and Englishmen slaughtered entire races on this continent. The Inquisitors smoked jews left and right, drove the sand niggers out of Southwestern Europe. I could go on. All in "Christian nations," and in some cases, in the very name of their religions.
Slavery may have been around but that doesn't mean it was a good thing. However I understand several bible passages can be found supporting it so does that make it OK?

And the Inquisitors slaughtered a lot more White people than they ever did jews or moslems. And for what? For crimes such as questioning the triune nature of the xtian god. And yes, they did it in the name of their religion.


Quote:
Communism is directly descended from Christian concepts? Directly? Try reading Plato's Republic sometime. People have been trying to incorporate tribal ways of life, communal-ism into the social strata, almost at the very birth of philosophy (Plato and philosophy itself is the very product of a mercantile society ironically). What about age old democracy? Is this too rooted in the notion of Christian equality?
Plato's Republic hasn't had much effect on the thinking of the European or Russian proletariat. Xtianity has. I doubt if communist ideology could had ever taken root without the biblical concepts of equality in the eyes of god to prepare the way.



Quote:
How about the populist overthrow of the French Monarchy, in which those revolutionaries wanted to destroy the Church as well? If anything, Christianity enforced the old ways, those..."classical" values so many admire, far longer into the advance of civilization than they otherwise would have been. How about Feudalism co-rising with the Church?
What about it? Again, it was xtian concepts of equality in the eyes of god which prepared the way for the revolution.

Quote:
When it's Marxist revolution, it's Christ-insanity as the culprit of forefather. When, at any time, a populace is too cowardly to overthrow their oppressors in non-Marxist fashion, it's the slave mentality of Christ-insanity.
I would say that is a pretty accurate assessment of the situation.

Quote:
It's like Linder says, you can't attribute the great things to Christianity, but rather the credit is due to white men. But then those same people fail to point the blame at ideas they don't like on white men; rather, it's Christ-insanity!
That is because the high points of Western Civilization were NOT a result of xtianity, and in many instances were opposed by church doctrine all the way. Advances in science for example. And I don't care about the handful of monks you can find who worked in scientific fields or worked to preserve classical knowledge. They carried out their work despite their xtianity.




Quote:
Nietzsche, being descended from a long line of Lutheran ministers and "working" his adult career as a college professor, as an intellectual, is as pompous an asshole as any of those types around today. Standing at his podium, acting like he knows how shit works. I bet if the proletariat's collective "will to power" ever came knocking on his university's door as we so often saw in revolutionary attitude towards intellectuals, he'd turn all Christian all of the sudden and get all "slave-morality" about it like a little girl.
Your personal opinion of Nietzsche reflects a typically xtian attitude toward learning in general. We see the same mindset from the fundie crowd with their anti-evolution nonsense and their insistence on Genesis as truth.

Quote:
It's not that I so much mind Christian bashing, it's how it's done. The misfiring of logic, the broad sweeping generalizations. Nietzsche was so anti-Christian because he was a thinking man, he had to overcome his father's thinking. His life was a thinking life, his struggles were thinking struggles. This I think is really the birth of his Ubermensch and morality ideas, overcoming his own brain. Like the many of you, who grew up in evangelical Christ-insanity, projecting your people's crap onto the rest of good, hardy, racial, war making Christians of times gone by. People don't think, they live. Christianity has been nothing more than the backdrop of the West, taking all the credit, and with some people now, all the buck. Christianity deserves it's flak certainly, but good lawd ya'll, make some sense of it. Put some focus into it. Get off these conceptualizations.
Broad sweeping generalizations? Like the christ cult's insistence that xtianity is responsible for Western Civilization? Or how about some misfiring logic? Such as xtards dismissal of all critics of xtianity as "atheists"? Some are, some aren't. Or the xtard logic which states that an attack on xtianity must be an attack on all religion?


Quote:
The problem with both the religious nuts who inspire nutty action with nutty ideas, and the anti-Christs, is they both take concepts, way, way too seriously.
I will admit I take concepts dealing with religion and politics seriously, especially when these concepts are harmful to my people. Xtianity does claim to be truth, and xtians do tend to accept it as such. When I see poisonous lies such as the claim that we should support Israel because jews are god's chosen people I do take it seriously.


Quote:
Remember kids, "words have no meaning" as the wacky gunman said.
I'm not sure where you got this idea. Words damned sure do have meaning. Words can get you killed. Words expressing false ideas which become accepted as truth can lead to the downfall of civilizations and the extinction of races.

Xtianity contains a hell of a lot of those false ideas which are being promoted as truth. You may call that a generalization if you wish but I, and others, have enumerated most of them in great detail on this forum and I get tired of repeating myself.

Can you list some reasons why xtianity is essential to White people? Xtianity now, not religion in general. I want to know why specific xtian doctrines are essential to us as a race. I've asked this several times and so far the only responses from the x-insane fanatics have been to call me a godless atheist.

Last edited by Fred Streed; February 11th, 2011 at 12:57 PM.
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #255
Karl Radl
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Originally Posted by Fredrick View Post
Your own thought please: I am not interested in answering people who just quote other people's essays as stand-alone justification for their personal position. That is simply intellectual laziness and cowardice of the highest order.

Quote:
The Bible doesn't support marxism it says the opposite.
You do realise that is genuinely hilarious (not in a good way) don't you?

Lets do a little deconstruction shall we?

A) Your whole argument implicitly assumes that you Frederick know the exact and truthful interpretation of Bible; aka God's revealed word, which therefore can only be said to point to your personal belief that you know the mind of God and that therefore you are on a par with God or are directly inspired by God. You have two choices there: you can either declare your interpretation to be merely your personal opinion (as opposed to objective fact) or you can claim to be directly inspired by God [for which you can offer no proof and for which I'd probably question your sanity and/or your motives]?

Logic is a bitch: huh?

B) You say that because your interpretation of the Bible doesn't support Marxism that Christianity does not support Marxism, which assumes that Christianity is only your interpretation of the Bible and that your interpretation of the Bible is the objective truth of the matter.

The Fabian Society; for example, would disagree with you.

C) I didn't say that Bible supported Marxism: I said (or rather implied as I assumed you'd have more than two brain cells) that standard Christian beliefs and interpretations throughout history have directly lead to the logic and rationality that forms the basic assumptions of and the intellectual basis for Marxism. There is a distinct difference as you'd know IF you paid attention.

D) How can the Bible say the 'opposite' of Marxism when the Bible contains (for example) the Sermon on the Mount (which Oliver aptly called 'Drivel on the Mount'), which is about close to Marxism as one gets without being an dialectical materialist?

I'll quote part of it just for your selective memory:

Quote:
5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of
heaven.


5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness:
for they shall be filled.


5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children
of God.


5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

5:11 Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you,
and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

5:12 Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in
heaven
: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

5:13 You are the salt of the earth: but if the salt has lost its
savour, with what shall it be salted? it is thereafter good for
nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
If that isn't nascent thoughts about class warfare and the dictatorship of the proletariat (incidentally confirmed by Pliny the Younger in his 'Letters to Trajan' and also later by Celsus in his writings on Christianity) then I don't know what is.

I could go on, but I won't as I probably lost you and your single brain cell in when I used concepts that aren't found in Yahweh's little story book.
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Old February 11th, 2011 #256
Karl Radl
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Originally Posted by Moose View Post
Communism is directly descended from Christian concepts? Directly?
Yup: it is.

Quote:
Try reading Plato's Republic sometime.
Unfortunately for you: I've read and understood it. What part of Plato's (or Aristotle's works) could be seen as an endorsement of communism? Oh and don't try the whole 'social preference' (i.e. the precept behind socialism) thing as that is beyond stupid as you'd know if you'd actually read and understood either of those two authors.

Perhaps you meant to talk about was Plutarch's Greek 'Lives', which have had a considerable indirect impact on the thought that forms the basis of marxism?

Quote:
People have been trying to incorporate tribal ways of life, communal-ism into the social strata, almost at the very birth of philosophy
Yes and this relates to Marxism how?

Read what I wrote NOT what you thought I wrote. If you want to clarify a point don't go off half-cock: it makes you look very stupid.

Quote:
(Plato and philosophy itself is the very product of a mercantile society ironically).
Yes and? It is also a Spartanophile philosophy based on Plato's reading of and reports about the Laws of Lycurgus as utilized at Sparta.

Quote:
What about age old democracy?
Clue is in the term: demos does not refer to 'mass' or 'people': it refers to plutocratic decision making. What you also don't mention is that democracy as originally meant was racialistic and even eugenic in nature (by its Greek context and concern about foreigners becoming citizens and becoming eligible to vote). Verstadt the difference in assumption?

Quote:
Is this too rooted in the notion of Christian equality?
'Mass Democracy' is of course: to argue anything else is foolish. The original concept of democracy is competely unrelated to democracy as today understood or Marxism in general for that matter.

That's kinda basic kiddo.

Quote:
How about the populist overthrow of the French Monarchy, in which those revolutionaries wanted to destroy the Church as well?
The entire basis of the Revolution's philosophy was based on Christianity's thought and intellectual contribution while having removed the base superstition that there was an omniscient and omnipotent big daddy up in the sky who didn't know basic facts about the world and even suspended the laws of nature from time to time for his little darlings. What Oliver correctly termed ersatz-Christianity: conclusions made on premises that are no longer held that someone then tries to invent a new rationale to justify.

Why does something's offspring attacking a hated parent surprise you and seem to you to be evidence that it is someone else's progeny?

Quote:
If anything, Christianity enforced the old ways,
What 'old ways'? Wickermen perhaps?

Quote:
those..."classical" values so many admire,
Why do you assume I do?

Quote:
far longer into the advance of civilization
Ehrm: actually the 'values' (a subjective pretending to be an objective: no?) were retained by the people and they were attacked by the Church. Take bathing for example: the Romans and Greeks were very keen on it and introduced its wide application to many other peoples, but after the collapse of Roman power in the West the tradition was maintained by the folk (in public bath houses) and attacked and looked down on by the Church; particularly the monastics, for it was a licentious in their eyes (rather like ladies wearing perfume, having a healthy sex life and/or being female). They finally succeeded in whittling it down by the time of the Reformation incidentally.

Quote:
than they otherwise would have been.
So how can you tell what 'would have been'?

Do tell.

Quote:
How about Feudalism co-rising with the Church?
Define 'Feudalism' that is a marxist catch-all term (based on the claims 'stages of progress') and lacks any objective definition as far as I am aware.
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Last edited by Karl Radl; February 11th, 2011 at 01:57 PM.
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #257
Rick Ronsavelle
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"I'm not trying to get into theological discourse but rather enlarging upon your point from my own perspective as a Catholic and as a National Socialist"

Karl Radl
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June 18, 2008

http://206.41.127.17/showthread.php?p=1148866
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #258
Thad Charles
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Originally Posted by Bret Masterson View Post
I thought your point was Christianity was responsible for the death of the civilizations it created?
No, it hasn't obviously. It wasn't even around for a few of them. But its ideals are leading to the destruction of this one. Or, at the very least, not doing a goddamn thing about it. Also I see you decided to thrown in a bullshit assertion that Christianity created civilizations. I don't see a single one. Whites created civilization in spite of it.
Quote:
Actually, I see now you have no point.
Some shithead Chrissie apologist decided to piss on scientific advancement with a fuckwitted rhetorical question. I just wanted to tell him to fuck off in what I suppose was uncertain terms.
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Old February 11th, 2011 #259
Karl Radl
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Originally Posted by Rick Ronsavelle View Post
"I'm not trying to get into theological discourse but rather enlarging upon your point from my own perspective as a Catholic and as a National Socialist"

Karl Radl
VNN Forum
June 18, 2008

http://206.41.127.17/showthread.php?p=1148866
Yes and your point is?

I am Catholic: never made any secret of that fact.

Incidentally you 'forgot' the earlier qualifier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Radl
but as a [quite unorthodox] Catholic
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Last edited by Karl Radl; February 11th, 2011 at 05:08 PM.
 
Old February 11th, 2011 #260
Moose
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Originally Posted by Karl Radl View Post
Yup: it is.



Unfortunately for you: I've read and understood it. What part of Plato's (or Aristotle's works) could be seen as an endorsement of communism? Oh and don't try the whole 'social preference' (i.e. the precept behind socialism) thing as that is beyond stupid as you'd know if you'd actually read and understood either of those two authors.
Unfortunately for me? What, have I insulted the size of your great philosophical wang? You don't need to take a condescending tone. We're just shooting the shit here.

Plato and Aristotle both addressed the communal distribution of property. Different than Marxism certainly, but the idea has always been there. They talked about it, thus the idea was there.

Quote:
Perhaps you meant to talk about was Plutarch's Greek 'Lives', which have had a considerable indirect impact on the thought that forms the basis of marxism?
Ohhh, that has an indirect impact but Christianity, which never took to the task of elevating of the proletariat to the level of the ruler socially, is, most certainly a direct impact.

Horseshit.

You pick and choose. Without understanding the Christian concept of equality. Hint: it's not social, thus not Marxist.

Quote:
Yes and this relates to Marxism how?

Read what I wrote NOT what you thought I wrote. If you want to clarify a point don't go off half-cock: it makes you look very stupid.
Your mom.

Quote:
Yes and? It is also a Spartanophile philosophy based on Plato's reading of and reports about the Laws of Lycurgus as utilized at Sparta.
Yes. And?

Quote:
Clue is in the term: demos does not refer to 'mass' or 'people': it refers to plutocratic decision making. What you also don't mention is that democracy as originally meant was racialistic and even eugenic in nature (by its Greek context and concern about foreigners becoming citizens and becoming eligible to vote). Verstadt the difference in assumption?
Nein.

What you fail to mention, is that democracy in it's oldest form still implies an equality in decision making, although not all inclusive.

But Christianity is not all inclusive, socially. Like Fred Streed said, slavery is in the Bible.

So it's a matter of extension then. Who gets to be equal. But Christianity, both in concept with it's lack of condemnation of slavery, and practically, with it never taking it upon itself to change social classes throughout history.

Just because you can make a connection, don't mean it's so black and white.

Quote:
The entire basis of the Revolution's philosophy was based on Christianity's thought and intellectual contribution while having removed the base superstition that there was an omniscient and omnipotent big daddy up in the sky who didn't know basic facts about the world and even suspended the laws of nature from time to time for his little darlings. What Oliver correctly termed ersatz-Christianity: conclusions made on premises that are no longer held that someone then tries to invent a new rationale to justify.
The entire basis of the Revolution's philosophy was based on the Enlightenment.

Yes, yes, no one would have ever, ever, ever dared think they were equal to other men, without that pesty Christ-insanity coming along.

Quote:
Why does something's offspring attacking a hated parent surprise you and seem to you to be evidence that it is someone else's progeny?
Is Christianity the cause, or merely a scapegoat.

No one would have ever ever ever grew a brain, took a look around and said themselves "hey, we're getting fucked here!"

Quote:
What 'old ways'? Wickermen perhaps?
Old ways. The real beef in civilization hasn't been a contempt of hierarchy, as say, Nietzsche would imply. It's lack of potential for social mobility, and contempt for being at the bottom. Every generation doesn't reset to zero, and the strongest rise to the top. There's kind of a lineage thing going on as far as I can tell.

Somewhere along the way people are going to wonder how strong the justification for these conditions are.

Quote:
Why do you assume I do?
You missed the part where I said it wasn't a direct response to you, but rather to the misfire of Marxism coming into being only because Christianity laid it's foundations.

Quote:
Ehrm: actually the 'values' (a subjective pretending to be an objective: no?) were retained by the people and they were attacked by the Church. Take bathing for example: the Romans and Greeks were very keen on it and introduced its wide application to many other peoples, but after the collapse of Roman power in the West the tradition was maintained by the folk (in public bath houses) and attacked and looked down on by the Church; particularly the monastics, for it was a licentious in their eyes (rather like ladies wearing perfume, having a healthy sex life and/or being female). They finally succeeded in whittling it down by the time of the Reformation incidentally.
Okay.


Quote:
So how can you tell what 'would have been'?

Do tell.
Haha! You can tell that Marxism or something like it would have never developed without Christianity?

Communism is a reaction to industrialization. The slave doesn't have to think himself equal to the master to be less than satisfied with his condition, now does he?


But the argument is, the slave would never question without Christ-insanity, because he would properly know he's got it coming! That's what the argument breaks down to. Really.

Or are you talking about distinct cultural Marxism?

Yes, today things are different. My perception is that Vatican II and the predominant judeo-Christianity of today is reaction to the shift in consciousness of the people, rather than it's direct, undeniable cause. This, spurred on by the juden and White ideas that were always around, as expressed intellectually in say, the Enlightenment.

The churches are in the business of people. One decade they're buddy buddy with the Third Reich, the next the Vatican is promoting amnesty for injuns in Western built countries.

Yes, those nigger loving, jew worshiping prophets on TV can justify their crap with words in the Bible, and so can their opponents.

But Christianity hasn't been in direct conflict with ethno-nationalism. Reference the Third Reich. The structure and culture of the Orthodox Church, has been criticized by many "true-believer" types of Western European origin, as more of a worship of ethno-nationalism than a worship of God.

You should have heard some of the stuff I heard coming out of an American Orthodox priest's mouth regarding the ethnic heritage of Madeline Albright and the uh, corrective measures, taken by the Serbs towards certain other populations.

Last edited by Moose; February 12th, 2011 at 02:15 AM.
 
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