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Old October 11th, 2010 #1
RickHolland
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Default Genetic estimation of North African blood in Europe

"Moors and Saracens in Europe: estimating the medieval North African male legacy in southern Europe"

To investigate the male genetic legacy of the Arab rule in southern Europe during medieval times, we focused on specific Northwest African haplogroups and identified evolutionary close STR-defined haplotypes in Iberia, Sicily and the Italian peninsula.

Our results point to a higher recent Northwest African contribution in Iberia and Sicily in agreement with historical data, southern Italian regions known to have experienced long-term Arab presence also show an enrichment of Northwest African types.

http://www.white-history.com/pdf-files/ejhg2008258a.pdf
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Old October 11th, 2010 #2
Thomas de Aynesworth
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"Enrichment," how laughable.
 
Old October 11th, 2010 #3
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Originally Posted by Thomas de Aynesworth View Post
"Enrichment," how laughable.
Whenever I see or hear that word my mind returns to the line by early dietitian sylvester graham (of the actual graham crackers), remarking on the overwhelming popularity of the new bleached flour, which he called "...nutritionally less than worthless."

The monkey species are just that -- genetically less than worthless. Their addition in any form, in any degree actually subtracts from the Whole. And both are shoved down our throats while being told they're good for you.
 
Old October 11th, 2010 #4
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Although not from "Moors" in the case of Iberia, since the berbers that conquered southern Spain were White men, most of modern Southern Europe is highly contaminated with Dinaric (Semitic) blood, as a result of the Neolithic Expansions and the mixture with extra-European elements wich has taken place over the last few thousand years.


What we know as "Mediterraneans" is not really a race of it's own, but a mongrelization on different levels between the original natives of the S.Europe and the Dinaric Invaders that came during the Neolithic bringing agriculture, with residues of Negroid and in cases Mongoloid, since these Dinarics or semites as you wanna call them, coming for the middle east also brought negroid and asian genes with them, the below are some examples of Dinaric-Nordic mixes typical throughout Southern Europe.







Spanish, look at the sloped forehead, mongoloid eyes and the shape of lips, looks like a Mixture of Nordic, Dinaric, with Mongolization and maybe negroid.






\

Portuguese, obvious Negrization, on top of the Dinarization.







This Guy is a very exact Mixture of Nordic and Dinaric, no negrization or mongolization to see, at least not noticeable.





Spanish, heavey Negrization, see the recessive chin and The aquiline Nose? it indicates a mix Dinaric, but the thickness of the nose and lips are Negroid.






Italian, longer more nordic jaw, but sloped forehead, aquiline nose, shape of eyebrows are non-Europid.
 
Old October 11th, 2010 #5
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Originally Posted by john2020 View Post
Although not from "Moors" in the case of Iberia, since the berbers that conquered southern Spain were White men, most of modern Southern Europe is highly contaminated with Dinaric (Semitic) blood, as a result of the Neolithic Expansions and the mixture with extra-European elements wich has taken place over the last few thousand years.


What we know as "Mediterraneans" is not really a race of it's own, but a mongrelization on different levels between the original natives of the S.Europe and the Dinaric Invaders that came during the Neolithic bringing agriculture, with residues of Negroid and in cases Mongoloid, since these Dinarics or semites as you wanna call them, coming for the middle east also brought negroid and asian genes with them, the below are some examples of Dinaric-Nordic mixes typical throughout Southern Europe.







Spanish, look at the sloped forehead, mongoloid eyes and the shape of lips, looks like a Mixture of Nordic, Dinaric, with Mongolization and maybe negroid.






\

Portuguese, obvious Negrization, on top of the Dinarization.







This Guy is a very exact Mixture of Nordic and Dinaric, no negrization or mongolization to see, at least not noticeable.





Spanish, heavey Negrization, see the recessive chin and The aquiline Nose? it indicates a mix Dinaric, but the thickness of the nose and lips are Negroid.






Italian, longer more nordic jaw, but sloped forehead, aquiline nose, shape of eyebrows are non-Europid.
Haha cool pics but your racial theory sounds like BS.
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Old October 12th, 2010 #6
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The top 2 persons pictured look like they could be lots of fun. Notice that the 1st doesn't have that wide snout nose and brillo hair
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Old October 12th, 2010 #7
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Originally Posted by RickHolland View Post
Haha cool pics but your racial theory sounds like BS.


HUh? that's your answer? can you disprove it? a mediterranen race cannot exist, unless you are implying semites/mongrels, there is no racial homoguenity throughout the mediterranean, some individuals display semitic, others negroid, others mongoloid, or mixtures of all, and such a race connot have evolved.


Maybe you look like one of those "MEDS" in those pictures and think you are white under the false concept of sub-race.
 
Old October 12th, 2010 #8
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The top 2 persons pictured look like they could be lots of fun. Notice that the 1st doesn't have that wide snout nose and brillo hair

But she has clear Mongoid in her, not for a white man to bred with, Spain imported thousand of mestizos during the days of the Empire so that's probably where she gets it from, although as contaminated as Southern Europe is with mid-eastern blood it wouldn't surprise if she where fully native.
 
Old October 12th, 2010 #9
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Originally Posted by john2020 View Post
HUh? that's your answer? can you disprove it? a mediterranen race cannot exist, unless you are implying semites/mongrels, there is no racial homoguenity throughout the mediterranean, some individuals display semitic, others negroid, others mongoloid, or mixtures of all, and such a race connot have evolved.
I just don't know from where to start.

Berbers are a linguistic group not a racial group some are white others aren't.

Dinarics didn't invaded Europe, Dinarics aren't even a race they are the result of the mix between the Alpine race and Mediterraneans or Armenoids.

Acording to Coon the Dinaric and some other categories "are not races but simply the visible expressions of the genetic variability of the intermarrying groups to which they belong." He referred to the creation of this distinctive phenotype from the mixing of earlier separate groups as "dinaricisation".

The majority of negroid and mongoloid blood in Spain and Portugal doesn't came from the moors or Neolithic Expansions it is a lot more recent it came from the colonial era and slave trade.

I agree that a lot of genetic non european semitic and north african trash is included in the racial definition of Mediterranean, but the true mediterraneans are an European race.

About the pics the men seem to be Europid the women don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john2020 View Post
Maybe you look like one of those "MEDS" in those pictures and think you are white under the false concept of sub-race.
Is this an ad hominem attack?

You really hurted my feelings now.
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Old October 12th, 2010 #10
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Dinarics are semites????? Wth???

Dinarics are an aryan sub-race that dawned in the area surrounding the DINARIC alps in Italy (hence the name Dinaric) at least 50k years ago.
 
Old October 12th, 2010 #11
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But she has clear Mongoid in her, not for a white man to bred with...
There's no chance it's going to happen, anyway. If there was, I'd breed with it over there and stay there and not in a White country
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...Spain imported thousand of mestizos during the days of the Empire...
That's a first. I always thought that Spain was one of the few counries who didn't allow colonialed people to enter their country
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Old October 12th, 2010 #12
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I just don't know from where to start.

[qoute]Berbers are a linguistic group not a racial group some are white others aren't.

I know, i was referring to the fact that the leadeing mass of men who conquered S.spain in 711 were white men, the original amazighs were all white.

Quote:
Dinarics didn't invaded Europe, Dinarics aren't even a race they are the result of the mix between the Alpine race and Mediterraneans or Armenoids.
i'm referring to the neolithic expantions, neither Mediterranean nor Alpine exist as pure races either, and Armenoids (wich is what i mean by "Dinaric") are the pure original semites, what is understood to be typically "Semitic" are actually Armenoids/Dinarics mixed with other elements, for example many jews or arabs have kinky hair and wide Noses as a result of negroid admixture, they are, simply mongrels, and there has to be a pure semitic race behind it.


Quote:
Acording to Coon the Dinaric and some other categories "are not races but simply the visible expressions of the genetic variability of the intermarrying groups to which they belong." He referred to the creation of this distinctive phenotype from the mixing of earlier separate groups as "dinaricisation".
yup.



Quote:
The majority of negroid and mongoloid blood in Spain and Portugal doesn't came from the moors or Neolithic Expansions it is a lot more recent it came from the colonial era and slave trade.

The majority is recent yes but not all of it, some of it came from the gradual expansion northward of middle-east haplogroups Southern Europe has been submitted to.

Portugal and Southern Italy have the most Negrisation, from importing negroes that later diluted into their gene pool.


Quote:
I agree that a lot of genetic non european semitic and north african trash is included in the racial definition of Mediterranean, but the true mediterraneans are an European race.

There really is no mediterranean race, the only race autochtonous to the mediterranean would be the nordics, there simply hasen't been enough time and genetic isolation for it to evolve, there is only 2 white races, and in pure form they are both Nordic.


Between 60.000 and 10.000 BC Northern Europe was Glaciated as we know, and Southern Europe was under Arctic Climatic Conditions, the halogroup R1b originated above the caucasous area around 30.000 BC, when the region was a frozen tundra, I evolved in the Balkans ~ 20.000 BC when the area lied just behind the boreal tree line, it wasn't until the neolithic, that the darker elements enterend Europe from the South east bringing agriculture and setteling around the mediterranean coast.


Quote:
About the pics the men seem to be Europid the women don't.
Kinky hair, aquiline noses, recessive chins, and recessive foreheads are not Europid traits, their not the result of an evolution in an artic enviroment.



Quote:
Is this an ad hominem attack?
No, it just amazes that some individuals can believe those people are white.

Quote:
You really hurted my feelings now.

So sorry.
 
Old October 12th, 2010 #13
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Originally Posted by Simo Häyhä View Post
Dinarics are semites????? Wth???

Dinarics are an aryan sub-race that dawned in the area surrounding the DINARIC alps in Italy (hence the name Dinaric) at least 50k years ago.


Dinarics, or armenoids are the original semites evolved in the middle east prior to the migrations into Europe that gave way to the nordic races.


What is shown as Dinaric in the third reichs racial antropology is not a pure race, Dinarics is the middle eastern racial branch from wich the European races evolved, it's the race between capoids that left africa, and Nordics Evolved in Europe.




50,000 years ago Europe was still uninhabited, except for neanthertals and the UK haplogroup i believe, the first migrations took place about 40.000 bc just as the ice age entered it's pinnacle, these immigratns for the middle east settled in refugia in balkans where they where sumbmited to evolution in an artic enviroment, where haplogroup I originated.
 
Old October 12th, 2010 #14
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Aquiline noses are a not European feature? That blows for me. (No pun intended if that is a pun.)
 
Old October 12th, 2010 #15
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Aquiline noses are not European feature? That blows for me. (No pun intended if that is a pun.)


it is an evolutionary adaptation to an desertic enviroment (arabia and the southern middle east, where dinarics evolved.), the only way it came to Europe is from the neolithic expantions.


yes, the Pure white man doesn't have an Aquiline nose.
 
Old October 13th, 2010 #16
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Princess Latizia, Carla Bruni and 'rilla 1:



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Old October 13th, 2010 #17
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Originally Posted by RickHolland View Post
' Genetic estimation of North African blood in Europe'
Originally North Africa was pure white under the Roman and Greek Empires, then came the outside invasions of the Semite Arabs and Negros after the collapse of Rome.
 
Old October 13th, 2010 #18
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Originally North Africa was pure white under the Roman and Greek Empires, then came the outside invasions of the Semite Arabs and Negros after the collapse of Rome.
I think that those Nordicist theories aren't very scientific.

Hitler and the Third Reich also considered pure, ethnic Berbers to be Aryan ie. White.

But the Moors were dark-skinned caucasoids with their own ethnicity.

The word "Moor" derives from the Latin Mauri, first used by the Romans to denote the inhabitants of the Roman province of Mauretania, comprising the western portion of modern Algeria and the northeastern portion of modern Morocco.



Although the Moors came to be associated with Muslims, the name Moor pre-dates Islam. It derives from the small Numidian Kingdom of Maure of the 3rd century BCE in what is now northern central and western part of Algeria and a part of northern Morocco. The name came to be applied to people of the entire region. "They were called Maurisi by the Greeks", wrote Strabo, "and Mauri by the Romans."

Shomarka Keita, a biological anthropologist from Howard University, has claimed that populations in Carthage circa 200 BC and northern Algeria 1500 BC were very diverse. As a group, they plotted closest to the populations of Northern Egypt and intermediate to Northern Europeans and tropical Africans. Keita claimed that "the data supported the comments from ancient authors observed by classicists: everything from fair-skinned blonds to peoples who were dark-skinned 'Ethiopian' or part Ethiopian in appearance." Modern evidence showed a similar diversity among present North Africans. Moreover, this "diversity" of phenotypes and peoples was probably due to in situ differentiation, not foreign influxes. Of course foreign influxes certainly had an impact but they did not replace the indigenous Berber population.

http://www.suite101.com/content/iden...-moors-a117835

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...mauretania-geo

http://www.white-history.com/moors.htm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogr...1b_.28E-M81.29
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Old October 13th, 2010 #19
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I think that those Nordicist theories aren't very scientific.

Look, i'm not trying to offend individulas here who think the belong to Med, Alpine, dinaric or the 12 and a half other false "subraces", We All Europeans are mixed to some degree, and that's what gives us different Phenotypes, but we should always value the purity of our race over anything, wich means valuing the Nordic bloods we all carry.



Quote:
Hitler and the Third Reich also considered pure, ethnic Berbers to be Aryan ie. White.
They are, it is know the original berbers were redhead, being Rb2 this makes perfect sence, but there has been much mongrelizaton with Semites (middle eastern) and Negroid populations since then caused by the Islam.


Quote:
But the Moors were dark-skinned caucasoids with their own ethnicity.
The white races are white, nothing less, they became almost albino thousands of years ago since they evolved in a glacial Enviroment, caucasoid isn't necessarily white, the Armenoid-dinarics pre-dates the white races.



Here are painting of the Al-Andalus during their rein in Iberia.












Quote:
The word "Moor" derives from the Latin Mauri, first used by the Romans to denote the inhabitants of the Roman province of Mauretania, comprising the western portion of modern Algeria and the northeastern portion of modern Morocco.



Although the Moors came to be associated with Muslims, the name Moor pre-dates Islam. It derives from the small Numidian Kingdom of Maure of the 3rd century BCE in what is now northern central and western part of Algeria and a part of northern Morocco. The name came to be applied to people of the entire region. "They were called Maurisi by the Greeks", wrote Strabo, "and Mauri by the Romans."

Shomarka Keita, a biological anthropologist from Howard University, has claimed that populations in Carthage circa 200 BC and northern Algeria 1500 BC were very diverse. As a group, they plotted closest to the populations of Northern Egypt and intermediate to Northern Europeans and tropical Africans. Keita claimed that "the data supported the comments from ancient authors observed by classicists: everything from fair-skinned blonds to peoples who were dark-skinned 'Ethiopian' or part Ethiopian in appearance." Modern evidence showed a similar diversity among present North Africans. Moreover, this "diversity" of phenotypes and peoples was probably due to in situ differentiation, not foreign influxes. Of course foreign influxes certainly had an impact but they did not replace the indigenous Berber population.

http://www.suite101.com/content/iden...-moors-a117835

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...mauretania-geo

http://www.white-history.com/moors.htm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogr...1b_.28E-M81.29
[/quote]


Diversity in Phenotype is caused by diversity in genes, eg mongrelization, the reason why some are blond whites while others close to negroid is because there has been strong recent mixture between the two, this is also common in Southern Europe where some people display a plathora of Negroid, mid eastern or mongoloid traits, while others are born very nordic, indicating mediterranerans cannot be the result of a natural evolution but of a relatively recent Mongrelization.
 
Old November 23rd, 2012 #20
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Default My Theory

I think there is a misconception about the white race due to different theorys and no real hard evidence of which theorys are more accurate over the others, so heres how i see it from the research i've done on the topic and after all the different theorys i've seen
I believe the very first inhabitants of Europe were alpines which were neanderthals who had adapted to the climate, however then the nordics (the first and true caucasians, armenoids if u prefer) were adapted around the caucasus region (i believe they were originally negroids, due to blacks occupying this area) and the nordics were a fierce and mighty tribe who then invaded all of europe, middle east, north africa.
Now these first nordics (armenoids) had long heads, narrow faces, aquiline noses, cleft chins and sunken in eyes, blue eyes and straight blonde hair, however when migrating to europe and conquering most of the land, they then mixed with the alpines (who only occupied certain areas of europe and not all over) and due to alpines having smaller button noses and larger heads and jaws the europeans got smaller noses and the blue eyes blonde gene was dominant over neanderthal (original alpines) features causing basically the whole of europe to be blonde haired and blue with more nordic features apart from areas like germany and scandanavia where excessive traces of alpine skulls are still very present.
now not all the nordics went to europe, some went down to persia and went as far as india mixing with the native mongoloid races of those regions, and some went down to arabia and then north africa. This is what caused what we call today middle easterns (arabids) which is a mix of the ancient nordics with the negroid semites.
then basically you go from there, the invasions and conquering began of differnt mixtures of the white race, the arabids invaded turkey which had excessive alpine inhabitants, which then got invaded again by persians(iranids) which were more pure nordics that adapted to the persian climate wit slight admixtures of mongoloid from the natives and partial negroid from the arabid invaders. then the arabids invaded north africa which were berbers (ancient nordics mixed with partial negroid) which then invaded southern europe which at the time would have been pure nordics (blonde hair and blue eyes) with of course slight admixtures of alpine, then the black slaves were introduced to all these regions which caused even higher negroid admixture within the north african arabs, the southern europeans and more recently even areas of western europe such as france and england who had black slaves after sea exploration.
Now you may think this makes no sense or you completely disagree but this is what i believe from my research and own observation e.g. i live in a country with plenty of arabian people and looking at them i can see the ancient nordics (big/aquiline nose, some have light hair and/or eyes, straight hair, eyes quite close together) and i can see the negroid (fat nose, frizzy hair, eyes further apart, dark hair & eyes, obviously that became the majority due to blue eyes and blonde hair being recessive) so if your in doubt on my theory then have a good look at certain people and their background or ethnicity and my theory might make abit more sense or you may be able to think up your own theory.
In any case we'll never have hard proof of how the white race and all the sub-categoys truely evolved we can only assume and create or own different theorys from what we've discovered about history and bones etc, but most of the ideas/theorys of races comes from William Z. Ripley due to him being the first to think this out so far as writting a book as old as 1899, however with technology today, if we were to get another Ripley, we could possibley figure the different races, stages of evolution and inter-racial mixtures once and for all of all the racial types of the world and how they all came to be.
 
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