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Old September 10th, 2009 #41
Eilert
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post

I don't like to see VNN people acting ignobly. That's not the Aryan way.
And referring to one woman's terminal condition as "ass cancer" is?
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Old September 10th, 2009 #42
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by Eilert View Post
And referring to one woman's terminal condition as "ass cancer" is?
Ass cancer is a neutral term, as I see it.
 
Old September 10th, 2009 #43
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By the way, Greg, and I mean this seriously...

You are a homosexual, correct?

So why do you care about the white race?
 
Old September 10th, 2009 #44
George Witzgall
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
By the way, Greg, and I mean this seriously...

You are a homosexual, correct?

So why do you care about the white race?
brother greg! you homosexual? we family bro.

alex, like we homosexuals shouldn't care about out nieces' and nephews' and godchilluns' future? (assuming we don't have any biological, or adopted kids of our own - I don't).

if your kid(s) were to die tomorrow and you found you couldn't have any more, would you say - to hell with the white race? or would you continue to press forward, to preserve the race for all the good people out there..

greg, I don't mean to answer for you, these were just some thoughts I had and I'm not even all that hardcore a racist. please forgive my intrusion and answer in your infinitely more eloquent way.
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Old September 10th, 2009 #45
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I believe it is also important to blame the Jew for the two biggest scams of this calendar year. And they need to be summarized in the simplest of terms:
the media-hyped banking crises and the subsequent bailout was nothing more than a scam to give the Jews who own the big banks over a trillion dollars of our money under the guise of a bailout. It was nothing but a gigantic Jewish swindle. It had nothing to do with saving our economy or preventing any depression or saving any failing banks. The whole thing was a lie. It was nothing more than Jews stealing our money.

The current health care plan is nothing more than a Jewish con to swindle $400 billion dollars per year from the people for the Jew-owned insurance companies. The Jews own the banks and the insurance companies and these two media-hyped ventures are nothing more than Jews stealing our money. To argue this or that point about the health care plan is irrelevant to its purpose. The whole proposal, in its entirety, is nothing more than a scheme to give the Jews a $400 billion dollars per-year subsidy for their insurance companies. It isn't about anything else.

All these programs, illegal aliens, unlimited immigration, so-called civil laws that require whites to discriminate against their own kind, health insurance schemes, bank bailout schemes, must be identified for what they simply are: the Jews are stealing our money.

Multiculturalism and abortion are sponsored by the Jews to exterminate our race. They are the Jewish attempt to perpetrate a holocaust against our people. The Holohoax is a Jewish cover, to make them appear innocent victims, while they commit their own holocaust against the white race.

So, yes, I agree, the Jew must be acknowledged as the force behind all these adverse laws and programs.

I also agree, that securing the U.S. as a national homeland for the white race must be our first and foremost objective. All programs, no matter how appealing, are of secondary importance.

I also agree with, "word and boot". That is why I promote both.
 
Old September 11th, 2009 #46
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Originally Posted by Krystian Kowalczyk View Post
And some safety net is necessary unless you want loads of, for instance, industrial workers (who we'll need a lot of) peeved at you.
Soon we won't need loads of industrial workers. There's little they'll be able to do that automated systems won't be able to do better, cheaper.
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Old September 11th, 2009 #47
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Originally Posted by Stronza View Post
Dewey is also quoted as saying, “Children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming where everyone is interdependent.”
The problem is, the kids who think for themselves are the rightful leaders of society. True progress has only ever come from those who can think outside of the box. That's what Bolshevism was ultimately about -- killing off (literally) a society's natural leaders.

This is the same Dewey for which we name our library cataloging system, right?
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Old September 11th, 2009 #48
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Market economics is not liberalism.
What version of market economics are you entertaining? Austrian economics, Keynesian economics, Friedman's neo-liberalism, old fashioned Adam Smith capitalism?

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I say, altho it is ignored, a market economics constrained in a racial over-state. Yes, I understand that there is no inherent limit to a market. If you allow people, they will trade in snuff films, use mud labor, etc.
Historically speaking, the 'free market' has been constrained by racialist sentiment in the United States. We know from history though that the market was always in tension with established racial mores. It was also one of the major factors in the final unraveling of the White Republic established by the Founders. For one, we have market forces to thank for bringing millions of Jewish immigrants here.

Quote:
But that doesn't change the fact that market economics is the best way to produce/distribute goods WITHIN a racial state.
A racial state would prioritize preserving its racial integrity over production/consumption. What is more important? The future of the White race or aisles of manufactured junk on sale at Wal-Mart and Target?

Quote:
At least 50% of the people on here envision a WN state not a whit different from what Obama and his commies want - except they imagine themselves on the dishing-out end, rather than on the get-up-at-4am-to-build-the-Great-Aryan-Transpolar-Highway end.
I won't speak for the others posting here, but any realistic reform of current system would have to address the unsavory aspects of capitalism:

1.) The formation of a subversive cheap labor lobby.
2.) The values of expressivism, consumerism, and materialism encouraged by the advertising industry under free market capitalism.
3.) The ethnic grievance lobbies that arise from importing a cheap labor force.
4.) The plutocratic elites that come with the system.

Quote:
My read on what's possible, and of course I could be wrong, is that white is non-negotiable. It's worth killing over, and our main goal, is an all-white nation. NO JEWS in it. NO MUDS in it. It is worth any amount of fighting, any tactic it takes, to achieve that.
We're of the same opinion here. This is the goal I have defended on my own website: a Jew-free, White ethnostate in North America. That's the minimum.

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Once that is achieved...I have laid out the kind of society I personally want to live in. Understanding that not all white men think alike, I have supported what I think could be a suitable arrangement: small states, microstates, city states, underneath a defensive umbrella.
That sounds nice. Personally, I would prefer to live under such an arrangement myself. I'm not so sure though that the toothpaste can be put back in the tube. I doubt the amount of freedom and small government enjoyed by early nineteenth century Americans is recoverable at this late date.

Quote:
But I repeat, the market and small-stuff I'm talking about is AFTER all the JEWS and MUDS have been dispensed with, and I'm no flusher liberal like Hitler, I believe in extermination for the jews. For the muds, probably other arrangements could be worked out for the unguilty ones.
If separatism is the ultimate goal, an apartheid type system would have to be created. Homogenous White zones could be established. In order to enter such zones (on a temporary basis), non-Whites would need the necessary paperwork. The size of the White zones (the nucleus of the White ethnostate) could be expanded over time as the non-Whites are concentrated, squeezed out, and resettled elsewhere.
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Old September 11th, 2009 #49
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
What I'm saying to you, Greg, is that you and TOQ are going down the wrong road in dunking our cause in the failure fondue of conservatism.
I've spoken to Greg and we mutually agreed that conservatism is worthless.
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Old September 11th, 2009 #50
Igor Alexander
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Originally Posted by Klaas Ebbe View Post
For one, we have market forces to thank for bringing millions of Jewish immigrants here.
How so?

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Originally Posted by Klaas Ebbe View Post
2.) The values of expressivism, consumerism, and materialism encouraged by the advertising industry under free market capitalism.
What's expressivism?

There's a nice book out (I forget the title) which is full of reproductions of advertisements from popular magazines published during the Third Reich. They're not all that different from the ads published in American magazines from the same period.

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Originally Posted by Klaas Ebbe View Post
3.) The ethnic grievance lobbies that arise from importing a cheap labor force.
That wouldn't happen in a racial state.
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Old September 11th, 2009 #51
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
How so?
In the 19C, millions of Jews immigrated to the United States to work as a cheap labor force in Northern industry.

[quote]What's expressivism?[quote]

Here's a definition -

"Expressive Individualism holds that each person has a unique core of feeling and intuition that should unfold or be expressed if individuality is to be realized. This core, though unique, is not necessarily alien to other persons or to nature. Under certain conditions, the expressive individualist may find it possible through intuitive feeling to "merge" with other persons, with nature, or with the cosmos as a whole. Expressive individualism is related to the phenomenon of romanticism in eighteenth and nineteenth-century European and American culture. In the twentieth century, it shows affinities with the culture of psychotherapy."

In sum, 'expressivism' or 'expressive individualism' is a certain sort of aesthetic and set of ethics - the rock star aesthetic, most famously - that has been with us ever since the 1920's. A fish lives in water, but doesn't feel wet. Similarly, 'expressivism' is such a huge part of contemporary American culture that it often goes unnoticed and undiagnosed.

Quote:
There's a nice book out (I forget the title) which is full of reproductions of advertisements from popular magazines published during the Third Reich. They're not all that different from the ads published in American magazines from the same period.
The roots of expressive individualism can be traced back to nineteenth century German romanticism. Charles Taylor discusses this in detail in his book Sources of the Self.

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That wouldn't happen in a racial state.
The U.S. was a "racial state" until the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952. Jews and negroes had long formed ethnic grievance lobbies by that time. In both cases, it was market forces (specifically, the need for a cheap labor supply) that brought those groups to America.
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Old September 11th, 2009 #52
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
The problem is, the kids who think for themselves are the rightful leaders of society. True progress has only ever come from those who can think outside of the box. That's what Bolshevism was ultimately about -- killing off (literally) a society's natural leaders.

This is the same Dewey for which we name our library cataloging system, right?
Melvil Dewey invented the Dewey Decimal System in 1876. It's used mainly in school libraries.

The "philosopher of education" was John Dewey, who lived a little later. John Dewey was a fan of the Soviet Union.
 
Old September 11th, 2009 #53
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This thread disappoints me. I thought TOQ was making good progress, especially in attracting a cadre of writers like Connelly and Elizabeth Whitcombe who apply MacDonald's framework, much as the neocons do with Leo Strauss. But I fear Greg leaves open the option of returning to the vomit of faileoconservatism, replete with fat Sambo's rationalizations for his Jew buddies.

We can learn some tactics from the Jews. We can't legally kill people like the Mossad does, we can't directly get them fired like the ADL does (though there may be indirect ways), but we can do what Norman Podhoretz does: we can shun people. Jared Taylor stands with the Jewish enemy, so he gets no fellowship and no resources from any WN. He's white (Alex's "WHINO") only in the same way fellow Jew-fawner Charles Murray is white. Murray doesn't pretend to be WN and we won't let Taylor get away with that pretense. Then we take it to the next level. We won't take anyone seriously who takes Jared Taylor seriously. That means you Greg.
 
Old September 11th, 2009 #54
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What version of market economics are you entertaining? Austrian economics, Keynesian economics, Friedman's neo-liberalism, old fashioned Adam Smith capitalism?
Uh...I don't know. Certainly not Keynesianism or Friedman's. I'm not fully sure what Adam Smith entails other than comparative advantage and such, seems reasonable. Most of the Austrian stuff seems close to correct, but there may be elements I don't know about. I'd say small-businessman economics. That's what I was, a small businessman, for much of my twenties. A market where people buy and sell without state interference in the form of endless licensing, restrictions and taxes. This is where the libertarians are way ahead of us racialists - they have pointed out all kinds of technical possibilities that are impossible under the all-state we have now. Of course, we need as an absolute hard money, pegged to gold. I know others say Hitler didn't do it that way, and I know there are other ways to try to do it, but they rely too much on men. I think the gold standard is the best way to try to escape human greed and fallibility. It kept prices constant in the US for the first seven generations, according to an article I read a couple weeks ago. It is immensely demoralizing to the average man to have prices jump around while cheaters at the top are rewarded. Government is basically a moral problem more than anything. Defenders should be ruthless toward enemies and completely moral toward citizens. That's the ideal. We have to get as close to it as we can.

As I've said many times, the best envisionable future, as I can make it out, combines libertarian economic discoveries with timeless WN racial truths. I hate to use libertarian because it will be taken wrong by the skims, but they are on the cutting edge of this stuff, so I give them credit. This is where we need WN academic brains helping make our case, but they're stuck on IQ and genes. That stuff is known or will come regardless. The interesting area is the complete intellectual rolling back of the need for any state, and, thus, the possibilities for anyone who can take power away from ZOG. That's where the best future for Whites lies.

Quote:
Historically speaking, the 'free market' has been constrained by racialist sentiment in the United States. We know from history though that the market was always in tension with established racial mores.
The market is and will always be in tension with any restrictions. Nothing can change that fact. Nothing can change that there will always be a financial incentive to do socially destructive things, even in an all-White state. But that's the best we can do - establish that all-White state. And get rid of the muds. Not by apartheid but by continental expulsion. So there is no standing body of muds anywhere nearby to tempt self-interested exploiters. That combined with the death penalty for certain type of economic crimes will ensure, as best we humanly can, that employers grasp that they will pay with their lives if they try to profit off their community's destruction. I don't see what else we can do expect organize all economic activity through the state, and that is throwing the baby of market efficiency out with the bathwater. We shouldn't allow the private greed of the losers to dominate any more than the private greed of the employers, should we?

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It was also one of the major factors in the final unraveling of the White Republic established by the Founders. For one, we have market forces to thank for bringing millions of Jewish immigrants here.
Yes and no, imo. I would attribute the problem more to politics. If jews are held to be citizens and equals, the rest takes care of itself. I blame the short-sighted or greedy politicians. If you let people, they will do bad things, particularly if they have strong incentive. And in the case of stuff like race, even if 98% do the right thing, the 2% can do enough to destroy things for everybody. That's more or less what we have now. All I can say is there is no final solution save exterminating every non-white on earth. Short of that, exterminate the jews, put the muds back overseas, establish death penality for racially destructive employer behavior.

Quote:
A racial state would prioritize preserving its racial integrity over production/consumption. What is more important? The future of the White race or aisles of manufactured junk on sale at Wal-Mart and Target?
I agree, hence my recommendations. I haven't figured all the details, but perhaps The Defenders over-state could be funded out of taxes on exports, rather than sales or income. International trade would have to be figured as part of defense. It would be established by the Defenders which countries could be traded with on which terms, including the Asian and other non-white countries. Always the interests of the race and the people would be kept first. Again, there's no way to guarantee you won't get people trying to subvert this system, but it will be much easier to keep it clean than what we have now if there are no muds in the country or even close to us. The Defenders will have to be schooled as essentially religious civil servants. They will be elite but they will not weigh heavy on the people. They will have to see things as a matter of honor rather than money and personal interest. Of course, human nature ensures no system can work perfectly, but whites, particularly Germanic whites, have proven capable of fundamentally honest bureaucracy. We want minimal, honest, efficient, dare I say religious bureaucracy for the single function of running the defensive overstate. This should require no more money than can be raised from taxes on exports. We will not be mongering wars and moralizing, as the WASP moralizers will be underground inspiring skunk cabbage after the revolution.

Quote:
I won't speak for the others posting here, but any realistic reform of current system would have to address the unsavory aspects of capitalism:

1.) The formation of a subversive cheap labor lobby.
2.) The values of expressivism, consumerism, and materialism encouraged by the advertising industry under free market capitalism.
3.) The ethnic grievance lobbies that arise from importing a cheap labor force.
4.) The plutocratic elites that come with the system.

1) There will not be low-wage minorities available for hire. If employers can't find people at the wages they want to pay, they can either not operate or raise their wages. But without taxes or minimum wages, they will be able to pay people what they are actually worth - wages are not random decisions, there are laws at work. Without government distortion through regulation, supply and demand will find their meeting point. At the same time, there won't be any OSHA/union bullshit to make products more expensive. People can use whatever criteria they want to judge their purchases; it's not the government's job to make things safe, just to defend us against other races and foreign threats. Rather than relying on expensive, incompetent regulatory wastrels like the FDA, people can form private agencies, if they wish, to make the kind of studies they feel they need. Tv today is filled with lawyers seeking drug-effects clients. Guess what? All these drugs these ads mention were approved by the FDA. There is no safety. It is my hope that after a decade or two under a WN umbrella, the religious faith in regulation will somewhat dissipate. Particularly if we have microstates, and the Idiocracy whites look over at their micro-anarchist neighbors and see what they're missing. Why should we throw out the beauty of different ways of doing things in exchange for bogus safety of this or that commission or regulatory body? Too many WN have not thought about the White man - what, actually, is it? What system fits it? I say at its best, the white man is not one specific thing, it is many different things. It is a paradox that it requires collective defensive to allow its world-making individualism to flower. The Catholic principle of subsidiarity is beautiful, and it very much applies. Things need to be accorded the power appropriate to their position and ability. The opposite of what we have now, where every single substantial decision is taken by the federal government, and anyone who disagrees is beaten down. Only the worst and lowest forms of white man prefer that system. The only function that fits whites as a collective is defense against foreign enemies. The rest can by individuals through private arrangements. This is where the libertarian research is very interesting, in that they've demonstrated that nearly every function traditionally associated with government can be handled more cheaply and efficiently by private arrangements. I think this idea of living as a real and free adult is a real hidden appeal of our cause; I think it is leagues more appealing than the airy love-your-race that Duke and Strom pitch. The point is not that WHITE is so great, it's that all the good stuff is tied to white.

2) I think there will be a significant spiritual change simply by virtue of jews being off the airwaves. But this is, to me, an unclear area. It would seem that, much as I don't like the idea, there will have to be a transition period from ZOGvision to Aryan normality, and that is going to require government control of the media until people are back to where they should be. Very difficult stuff, and I don't have all the answers. You can't run tv without shows and scripts and production, and that implies lots of people and money. Not easy to see something like that willing to dissolve itself into private hands when the time comes. More thinking is required here. What I know is that the first thing we do will be put on a publicly televised trial of the top jews and the whiteskin shills who served them. We will allow the white public to vote on what ought to become of them. We will make up a Museum of Jewish Crimes in the DC Holocaust Museum, with a statue of James von Brunn out front, as a headstone for the hate race.

Setting up a National Race Academy with the highest intellectual standards to train and teach a segment of the elite to become Defenders should ensure that these people are respected, and the basic idea of protecting the race rather than undermining the community becomes established in the minds of the citizenry. Along with this, we need rigorous curriculum put out for families to HS their kids, or, if they like, use in conjunction with other families in schools of their own design. The government can keep a handful of tv channels for itself, and over these put out news. The rest will be privately owned, but if clowns agitate to racially undermine the state, they will be weeded out. That is, this is a racial state. Opposing opinions are not allowed. Just as ZOG is baesd on mocking and annihilating the concept and people-age of White, the White state is based on protecting the race that created it. Any whites who don't like this will have died in the revolution or fled abroad. If new ones crop up, they can leave or die. No threat to the racial basis of the state will be tolerated. I don't believe in prisons. I believe in shooting proven sex defectives and criminals. The libertarians have various ideas on private justice that bear consideration. It's not White to burden citizens with the care of animals, sex-defectives, head cases and drug users. The technology for making new people is known. Proven criminals and freaks of genital need to be shot and fed to piranhas. I also think, and this in the wrong place, we need, perhaps, to take seriously Mencken's idea, and offer one or multiple human Defender sacrifice each year in order to keep people in mind of just how serious our society and the mission of the Defenders is. If they are not willing to submit to an annual death lottery, in which, say, 1-5, chosen at random Shirley Jackson style, are sacrificed in a publicly televised ceremony, then maybe their heart is not in the right place. Maybe they could be sacrificed around April 20, or whatever day we want to call Thermopylae Day. It would be a national day of sacrifice and celebration. It would begin somberly with the televised sacrifice, but culminate in a great spectacle, as we pay respect to ourselves and our mission - we don't know why we're here, but we're going to penetrate as far as we can into the inner and outer reaches of every corpuscle. It would take a Goebbels or a specialist in designing public rituals to know exactly the right way to go about it, but it certainly could be done.

A White man has to be a man. A White government that denies him that chance is scarecely better than the jews' ZOG. Being a man, as I see it, means the man has room to try and succeed or fail, to make all the adult decisions for himself.

I guess I differ from some in that I don't see white people as fundamentally defective. I don't see them as fundamentally materialistic, either, really. Calling others materialistic tends to be a way of patting ourselves on the back, when in fact we are all at least 80% alike in our use of devices and contrivances. Nobody alive doesn't like and respect money. I do see Whites as subject to a lot of ridiculous, baby-izing, up-fucking, jew-devised legal/medial insanity, under which they are still managing tolerably well. I really do believe that if you break ZOG's wrist, most whites will snap back to something a lot closer to normal. I really disagree with the Hitler model of forcing people to be free, I like the clockwork orange idea better. We don't need a Hitler, we need a Willie Wonka. Hints, suggestions, inspirations - drawing out of people what's in them, not bashing them until they conform out of fear. Where the power is needed is in crushing the jews, and it is there, ironically, that Hitler was too liberal. I would not make that mistake. Where power is the problem, we need to acquire it and use it without any guilt whatsoever. Power can and will solve the jewish problem for all time. My reading of history is correct. Not the final solution of progressive legal discrimination, but the Orkin solution of exterminating every single nit we can get our spray gun on. They'v earned it. They deserve it. I believe they are going to get it.

So, Prozium, your comments are right on, but they always read as though your assumption is we have a state roughly like we have now. No, no, no. I know the history of apartheid, South Africa, Zimbabwe, the American South - we won't have any niggers or mexes about to do the dirty work. As Eric Thomson says, there is no such thing as cheap labor. We solve the temptation by removing it. Exterminate the jews, remove the muds back to their native lands, clean the mexiswamp down through the isthmus. Take away the cultists' playthings, what are they going to do? Without jews, the liberals are going to find it awfully hard to be more than a tiny group of mental freaks, and they will stick out among the normals, and if they rise up, they will be crushed by the Defenders. Of course, no human system can't be breached, but that's a given. Whites can be ingenious in their devising of crazy systems and pressing them on others. Nothing can be done about it except fight it. White genius and creativity don't just show up in the good people, they exist in our bad people too, and nothing we can do will change that, we just have to fight them. We can only worry about things in our time. Beyond that, we lay out for posterity the lessons we know, and what seems best - the actual execution is their job. We can't make and shouldn't want Clockwork Whites. We want a free society, not the white ant farm some of the Germanics desire. Like they say you can't be a gentleman without being a man, you can't be a White man without being a man. That essential point can't get lost in the politics we propose.

Quote:
We're of the same opinion here. This is the goal I have defended on my own website: a Jew-free, White ethnostate in North America. That's the minimum.
Good.

Some here have made points that we need more economic talk or a clearer idea to show people of the state we have in mind, hence I've been working that out lower on the forum. It is worth discussing because clearly WN here and elsewhere are divided on what kind of state they envision. WN implies nothing other than whites-only. I don't really know of a better term, though. We want a white nation. That's the main thing. Even if it were nothing like what I outlined, it would be better than what we have now if for no other reason than the rulers weren't dedicated to White genocide. But because our enemy will always define us in the worst way, it behooves us to lay out where our plans differ from theirs.

Quote:
That sounds nice. Personally, I would prefer to live under such an arrangement myself. I'm not so sure though that the toothpaste can be put back in the tube. I doubt the amount of freedom and small government enjoyed by early nineteenth century Americans is recoverable at this late date.
Of course not! Would you really want to if you could? Not really, I doubt it. I wouldn't. We can cry over what's gone and can't come back, but we can also make it or find it anew. White is not a point, it is a quest. Unless you're Amish. I prefer the road and the risk to the routine. We always talk about how technology is used to control us, but it has an upside too. This, again, gets back to the libertarian ideas re secession and micro-states. Turns out virtually all functions of the state are unnecessary. We can't let our focus on race (which the libertarian, incorrectly, ignore) take away from the dawning realization on the part of a hell of a lot of smart people that government is the very worst way to handle most life problems. Combine that breakthrough with our racial knowledge - THAT is where we hit the jackpot. In my opinion.

Like I've said many times, I live in small-town Missouri. It is lower end as the sociologists judge these things. Our town council is drunks and pyromaniacs! (Literally - our mayor was convicted of arson, burning down her own bar!) Yet our community is lovely and livable and the town is always in the black. The conclusion is that even the dumber and poorer whites don't need anybody or anything but themselves to prosper. The problem is entirely in the concentration of power at the federal level. I can't totally criticize Hitler and Germany for consolidation in light of the beast to the east and the fact that Germany is hardly bigger than a couple American states, but I am not willing to throw out the good part of historical American politics (which you know at least as well as anyone writing on the 'Net) - the ideas of Calhoun, the ideas of states behind comfortable in their own skin (the Celtic south) and the idea of a genial competition and peacefully regional differences. Hey - we're White men. We don't have to agree on everything. Let people do things their own way. Of course, any tolerant system is self-refuting, as one white tendency is toward imperalistic moralizing. But I guess that's the cost of being alive. We have to kill if we don't want to submit. Not ideal, but what are you gonna do? The world is rough. Life is struggle, even under optimal conditions. Moralizers and perverts be with us always, as Jesus said before he disappeared into the cathouse. There's no way to cut them out of the picture yet. Perhaps genetic technology will make it possible one day, and people can choose to breed a more perfect strain of white man. Short of that I don't know better than what I've described above.

Quote:
If separatism is the ultimate goal, an apartheid type system would have to be created. Homogenous White zones could be established. In order to enter such zones (on a temporary basis), non-Whites would need the necessary paperwork. The size of the White zones (the nucleus of the White ethnostate) could be expanded over time as the non-Whites are concentrated, squeezed out, and resettled elsewhere.
I don't think that's enough. We have to clear the continent like our forefathers should have done. Once we're established, we set up formal relations with the rest of the world, enabling travel and trade on terms that benefit us. Any mix of zones is going to be a standing temptation to profiteers and moralists. Let's make sure the chocos are at least an ocean away so their grubby little mitts don't get grabby.
 
Old September 11th, 2009 #55
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Originally Posted by Klaas Ebbe View Post
I've spoken to Greg and we mutually agreed that conservatism is worthless.
I know you do, intellectually. But what matters more than agreement on the basic idea is translating it into behavior toward people and positions. On this I argue, as I have to Greg, that TOQ is following an essentially conservative line by mixing standard conservatives with people who take a more WN line. I don't think that's the way to go. The crying need now is for, if you're staying soft, a White curriculum for HS, so we can begin to form the separate nation. If you're going hard, it is for ruthless attacks and mocking of the conservatives, not workign with them and smoothing over differences when it gains you no minds or material advantages. Perhaps we disagree on this, but it will continue to be fought.
 
Old September 11th, 2009 #56
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I mean by "hard," not what I said about, that's just verbal hardness, but actual leadership. This is the crux of the matter as we get to late 2009: no one -- me included -- is offering any leadership, and leadership, honest to god political leadership, is what Whites need. Not lectures about IQ. Not demands for fairness. Not flipping the left's verbal tricks and civil rights bromides against them. Leadership. Uncompromising jew-naming, White-defending leadership.

The reason I criticize Francis in the past, and KM for the stupid mistake of using Sam to write his book foreword, and Greg for in some way finding no problem with this when from his VNN past he should know better, is that Sam did what I said in the other post, and KM looks to be following the same route: BLAMING the people. Rather than helping them and inspiring them and LEADING them. Sam's position, expressed in KM's book foreward, is that NOT of a leader but of someone standing to the side and saying, gee, you whites should be really mad about this. You're really getting screwed here. I will be real surprised if you don't rise up. Sam wrote as a neutral party, with no stake in the outcome. Always he kept himself at arm's length. He NEVER ONCE called himself a White nationalist or anything theresimilar. Sam Francis was unmanly, and it came through in nearly everything he wrote. That's what made him Canny. He knew just where the line was, and he always made sure his belly was on the side of safety.

Now Greg can say all day long he's not a conservative, but when that's the kind of man and attitude you're subsidizing with your support, you are in functional fact, a conservative.

This must always be kept in mind: there is a world of difference between leading and analyzing. One is jock-sniffing, the other is playing linebacker.

Let's not lie to ourselves. Just as the dumb guys with the swastikas fantasize they are warriors, we smart guys are apt to fantasize we are leaders because we are chock full o' good ideas.

We should know, if we've ever been in business or had any experience in anything, the world is full to its eyeballs of good ideas. What is rare as hell is anybody to execute them.

That's why Rounder is here. A forty-year-old Rounder is worth a dozen Macdonalds and infinite Sam Francises.

Didn't Mao say a revolution is not a dinner party.

We will never be led to freedom by the White Dinner Party.

The nation we seek will not come from temporizers, publishers, analysts, writers and remonstrators and 501c3 intake valves.

Let's just keep that in mind and not kid ourselves. NO ONE credible that I know of offers to leadership to the White race. Greg says my editing grew erratic. Well, Greg, after five years of daily writing more than most columnists write in a week, under difficult circumstances, perhaps I burned out. Perhaps too, Greg, VNN had achieved its most fundamental mission, to set a new tone, and knock WN into a new way of thinking. You say I worked with others who were bad. You have to take chances to make progress, Greg. A bunch of aged Ph.D.s who won't lead have no chance of winning. They just write more books saying the same thing. I would rather take a chance on destroying my reputation and website through alliances with people who in my judgment have some of the elements of victory in their makeup than keep on doing the same old things until I turn into an old clown.

Don't tell me about intellectual leadership, there's no such thing. Our cause is easy to define, and the outcome is easy to measure. What we need, what matters now, is leadership. I don't see anybody willing to offer it. I see endless conservative kibitzers and analysts, make the same old points that have always been made. That doesn't lead anywhere.

Who will offer the white community leadership? Him I do not see, not on the stage, not in the offing.
 
Old September 11th, 2009 #57
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Originally Posted by George Witzgall View Post
brother greg! you homosexual? we family bro.

alex, like we homosexuals shouldn't care about out nieces' and nephews' and godchilluns' future? (assuming we don't have any biological, or adopted kids of our own - I don't).

if your kid(s) were to die tomorrow and you found you couldn't have any more, would you say - to hell with the white race? or would you continue to press forward, to preserve the race for all the good people out there..

greg, I don't mean to answer for you, these were just some thoughts I had and I'm not even all that hardcore a racist. please forgive my intrusion and answer in your infinitely more eloquent way.
Oh Mein Gott, yet another ass licking, rectum loving, shit eating faggot on here. Chunk em all in the hoosegow Alex, for reasons of hygeine if nothing else.
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Old September 11th, 2009 #58
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Originally Posted by Mike Parker View Post
This thread disappoints me. I thought TOQ was making good progress, especially in attracting a cadre of writers like Connelly and Elizabeth Whitcombe who apply MacDonald's framework, much as the neocons do with Leo Strauss. But I fear Greg leaves open the option of returning to the vomit of faileoconservatism, replete with fat Sambo's rationalizations for his Jew buddies.

We can learn some tactics from the Jews. We can't legally kill people like the Mossad does, we can't directly get them fired like the ADL does (though there may be indirect ways), but we can do what Norman Podhoretz does: we can shun people. Jared Taylor stands with the Jewish enemy, so he gets no fellowship and no resources from any WN. He's white (Alex's "WHINO") only in the same way fellow Jew-fawner Charles Murray is white. Murray doesn't pretend to be WN and we won't let Taylor get away with that pretense. Then we take it to the next level. We won't take anyone seriously who takes Jared Taylor seriously. That means you Greg.
Yes. Greg knows better. But, he is following Macdonald, who is following Francis. They tell themselves they are cleverly insinuating themselves into the elite, and influencing it. They are not. When I ask Greg to lay out their strategy, nothing but crickets. Who is this mysterious elite you are influencing, Greg? Show me how this works from the White state we seek back to your actions?

All they have is, uh, let's write a bunch more books saying the same thing, uh, maybe we run The Turd for representative, uh, maybe we hold a conference with Pat Buchanan on how those gosh-durn liberals destroyed the fifties. That's what they have.

Above all, let's never form a White advocacy group. That could have implications. Let's never speak to the public, only to private donor groups. Let's never confront the opposition outdoors. Let's never make an HS curriculum so the young have something prepared for them, forming the basis of a new nation. Let's do what we've always done and maybe this time it will bring results.
 
Old September 11th, 2009 #59
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
A market where people buy and sell without state interference in the form of endless licensing, restrictions and taxes. This is where the libertarians are way ahead of us racialists
An economic free-for-all under the “free market” mythos is largely responsible for the mess we are in now. Each man for himself in the realm of economics means each man for himself in the realm of politics, too. Libertarian thinking has no answer for us politically and it has no answer for us with economics either.

Without jews our current capitalist system of economic exploitation will not magically improve. Finance will still take precedence over all – what force is there in the “free market” to say that it does not?


Quote:
The Defenders will have to be schooled as essentially religious civil servants. They will be elite but they will not weigh heavy on the people. They will have to see things as a matter of honor rather than money and personal interest.
This just does not make sense. What code of honor do libertarians have? The god religious civil servants worship is the “free market” – is it not? You are desperately trying to clothe NS economic principles in neo-libertarian rags, why make such a disingenuous effort? Why not call a NS a NS and be done with it? If the WN State is our friendly big brother in the political realm why can’t it be our friendly big brother in the economic realm too? Politics for the good of the race + economics for the good of the race = National Socialism no matter how you want to avoid it.

Quote:
People can use whatever criteria they want to judge their purchases; it's not the government's job to make things safe, just to defend us against other races and foreign threats.
This is just nonsensical too. Robber Barons, sweat shops, quacks, frauds, etc all THRIVED under laze faire capitalism. Are you unaware of Sinclair’s The Jungle? Or do you just not give a damn? You really need to think this attitude through.


Quote:
Things need to be accorded the power appropriate to their position and ability. The opposite of what we have now, where every single substantial decision is taken by the federal government, and anyone who disagrees is beaten down. Only the worst and lowest forms of white man prefer that system. The only function that fits whites as a collective is defense against foreign enemies. The rest can by individuals through private arrangements.
Where do the rights of Corporations and monopolies fit into your scheme of things?

Individuals STAND NO CHANCE against their collective interests.

You are walking us right back down the path that we trod 100 years ago. Reforms on destructive corporations and monopolies were only won at the expense and ruination of 10s of thousands of White lives and families. “OSHA/union bullshit” also saved White lives. Why do you insist that we play this same game out again? Call a spade a spade – place a National Socialist structure regulating a healthy series of guidelines and restrictions on businesses - and be done with it.


Quote:
Turns out virtually all functions of the state are unnecessary.
White victims of economic exploitation just don’t enter into your way of thinking at all do they? A free-for-all Willie Wonka world with children’s heads being lopped off by bubble mixing machines is hardly worth the struggle we are facing.

Quote:
The conclusion is that even the dumber and poorer whites don't need anybody or anything but themselves to prosper.
Do you want your gastro surgery at your local hospital or would you prefer it at the Mayo clinic? Small and simple is not always the most desirable or what we should be aiming at. The point is that we Whites should be collectivizing to rule our world and advance to the stars – because we find it good, necessary and challenging - not dispersing and escaping to the backwoods - because we find it momentarily satisfying. The former is Life-Affirming and the latter Life-denying. Our economics SHOULD BE MADE TO CONFORM TO THE FORMER.


Quote:
I mean by "hard," not what I said about, that's just verbal hardness, but actual leadership. This is the crux of the matter as we get to late 2009: no one -- me included -- is offering any leadership, and leadership, honest to god political leadership, is what Whites need. Not lectures about IQ. Not demands for fairness. Not flipping the left's verbal tricks and civil rights bromides against them. Leadership. Uncompromising jew-naming, White-defending leadership.

The reason I criticize Francis in the past, and KM for the stupid mistake of using Sam to write his book foreword, and Greg for in some way finding no problem with this when from his VNN past he should know better, is that Sam did what I said in the other post, and KM looks to be following the same route: BLAMING the people. Rather than helping them and inspiring them and LEADING them. Sam's position, expressed in KM's book foreward, is that NOT of a leader but of someone standing to the side and saying, gee, you whites should be really mad about this. You're really getting screwed here. I will be real surprised if you don't rise up. Sam wrote as a neutral party, with no stake in the outcome. Always he kept himself at arm's length. He NEVER ONCE called himself a White nationalist or anything theresimilar. Sam Francis was unmanly, and it came through in nearly everything he wrote. That's what made him Canny. He knew just where the line was, and he always made sure his belly was on the side of safety.

Now Greg can say all day long he's not a conservative, but when that's the kind of man and attitude you're subsidizing with your support, you are in functional fact, a conservative.

This must always be kept in mind: there is a world of difference between leading and analyzing. One is jock-sniffing, the other is playing linebacker.

Let's not lie to ourselves. Just as the dumb guys with the swastikas fantasize they are warriors, we smart guys are apt to fantasize we are leaders because we are chock full o' good ideas.

We should know, if we've ever been in business or had any experience in anything, the world is full to its eyeballs of good ideas. What is rare as hell is anybody to execute them.

That's why Rounder is here. A forty-year-old Rounder is worth a dozen Macdonalds and infinite Sam Francises.

Didn't Mao say a revolution is not a dinner party.

We will never be led to freedom by the White Dinner Party.

The nation we seek will not come from temporizers, publishers, analysts, writers and remonstrators and 501c3 intake valves.

Let's just keep that in mind and not kid ourselves. NO ONE credible that I know of offers to leadership to the White race. Greg says my editing grew erratic. Well, Greg, after five years of daily writing more than most columnists write in a week, under difficult circumstances, perhaps I burned out. Perhaps too, Greg, VNN had achieved its most fundamental mission, to set a new tone, and knock WN into a new way of thinking. You say I worked with others who were bad. You have to take chances to make progress, Greg. A bunch of aged Ph.D.s who won't lead have no chance of winning. They just write more books saying the same thing. I would rather take a chance on destroying my reputation and website through alliances with people who in my judgment have some of the elements of victory in their makeup than keep on doing the same old things until I turn into an old clown.

Don't tell me about intellectual leadership, there's no such thing. Our cause is easy to define, and the outcome is easy to measure. What we need, what matters now, is leadership. I don't see anybody willing to offer it. I see endless conservative kibitzers and analysts, make the same old points that have always been made. That doesn't lead anywhere.

Who will offer the white community leadership? Him I do not see, not on the stage, not in the offing.

Quote:
Yes. Greg knows better. But, he is following Macdonald, who is following Francis. They tell themselves they are cleverly insinuating themselves into the elite, and influencing it. They are not. When I ask Greg to lay out their strategy, nothing but crickets. Who is this mysterious elite you are influencing, Greg? Show me how this works from the White state we seek back to your actions?

All they have is, uh, let's write a bunch more books saying the same thing, uh, maybe we run The Turd for representative, uh, maybe we hold a conference with Pat Buchanan on how those gosh-durn liberals destroyed the fifties. That's what they have.

Above all, let's never form a White advocacy group. That could have implications. Let's never speak to the public, only to private donor groups. Let's never confront the opposition outdoors. Let's never make an HS curriculum so the young have something prepared for them, forming the basis of a new nation. Let's do what we've always done and maybe this time it will bring results.
You are on a roll. Some of the best stuff I have ever read you write. Bravo on every point.
 
Old September 11th, 2009 #60
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
I don't think that's enough. We have to clear the continent like our forefathers should have done. Once we're established, we set up formal relations with the rest of the world, enabling travel and trade on terms that benefit us. Any mix of zones is going to be a standing temptation to profiteers and moralists. Let's make sure the chocos are at least an ocean away so their grubby little mitts don't get grabby.
Of course. The ultimate goal is a final and complete separation. I had in mind parts of Alabama and Georgia where negroes are an outright majority in many counties. I come from this area. Clearing the Deep South of non-Whites will be a more arduous process than deporting them from lily White Northern Missouri/Iowa. It will undoubtedly take many years to accomplish.

Quote:
I know you do, intellectually. But what matters more than agreement on the basic idea is translating it into behavior toward people and positions.
I can see your point about the attitude (ridicule and contempt) that we should adopt towards conservatives. I've had many exchanges with John Zmirak. I'm not a fan of Justin Raimondo or Tom Fleming either. All three have repeatedly attacked White Nationalists over the past year or two.

Quote:
On this I argue, as I have to Greg, that TOQ is following an essentially conservative line by mixing standard conservatives with people who take a more WN line. I don't think that's the way to go.
I know there is some overlap between Greg's circle of writers at TOQ and the fringes of paleoconservatism. I'm not sure if this has affected his editorial stance though. After all, TOQ "names the Jew" and endorses the White ethnostate, which is essentially your position. That's hardly conservative. It goes far beyond anything I have seen at Takimag or VDARE.

Quote:
The crying need now is for, if you're staying soft, a White curriculum for HS, so we can begin to form the separate nation. If you're going hard, it is for ruthless attacks and mocking of the conservatives, not workign with them and smoothing over differences when it gains you no minds or material advantages. Perhaps we disagree on this, but it will continue to be fought.
I don't have any problem ruthlessly attacking and mocking mainstream conservatives. 99% of them attack us out of political expediency. There are only a handful of prominent conservatives (probably less than 50) who are even remotely sympathetic to White Nationalism.

I'm not in the habit of attacking people who don't attack us. That's my litmus test. If no gunfire is emanating from their side, I choose other targets. White Nationalists have allies, sympathizers, and people who won't stand in our way. I see no reason to attack friendlies or neutrals. They're not impeding our efforts so long as they remain silent.
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