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Old March 21st, 2009 #21
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Originally Posted by Tulpar View Post
He didn't asked about nations or origins, he asked for genetic markers...
And I replied to him honestly telling him that I never submitted myself to a DNA analysis and of course whitout a DNA analysis, how am I to know if I am R1a, R1b, J1, J2, I1, Q, N, E1b1a etc...?
You know prety good what he mean..he want to know what is yours origins (are you Greek or Bulgar or maybe Srbian or even Albanian)


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What do you mean?
my English is bad...i mean : defend yours way of thinking, yours positions about issue...that i mean
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Old March 21st, 2009 #22
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You know prety good what he mean..he want to know what is yours origins (are you Greek or Bulgar or maybe Srbian or even Albanian)
Nope, I am not greek, not bulgarian, not Serbian and not even Albanian. I am not related in any way to the balkans, but I see these nationalities arguing with each others in the SF macedonian threads...


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my English is bad...i mean : defend yours way of thinking, yours positions about issue...that i mean
What way of thinking? I am a foreigner to balkan's problem, so like General Lee says here:

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Originally Posted by General_Lee View Post
Give us non-Macedonians a brief synopsis of the goings on there, bmwbiker. What is the cause of the instability?
I too was only asking the same question.

Also I wanted to know something else, that you too asked:

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Originally Posted by bmwbiker View Post
resolve that great quastion: Who the fuck is Macedonians?
For now we know that one legal country is called Macedonia, and i think that will stay forever becouse that region is Macedonia, but problem stays...who are Macedonians?
So for someone who is foreign to the Balkan's problems, how are they to know anything about such questions?

This thread is about Macedonia, but 95% of the VNNf forum members are definitly oblivious about Macedonia's infrastructure and conflicts.

If someone asks in a larger forum, such as Skadi no one gives you a concrete answer, if someone ask on stormfront everyone jumps claiming that so and so are Macedonians...

Understand?
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Old March 21st, 2009 #23
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Originally Posted by Tulpar View Post
Honestly? I have no idea, the only way I would be able to provide you with a liable answer would be by submitting myself to a DNA analysis test.

But since it seems to be higly unreliable, I have not done so.

An example, James Watson (DNA pioneer) has been tested and found to be a nigger:



Which of course tells you what a risible masquerade the DNA analysis "industry" has been turned unto by being kosher owned.

Aside from this issue, I see you post on Stormfront too and in the Macedonia thread Bulgarians, Croatians, FYROMians, Greecs etc... Are saying they are Macedonians.

Do you have pictures of real Macedonians (not the wannabees)? If so, could you post them, please?
Every one want's to be Macedonian but as you know that's imposible. Only we (Macedonians) can be Macedonians.
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Old March 21st, 2009 #24
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Originally Posted by Tulpar View Post
He didn't asked about nations or origins, he asked for genetic markers...



And I replied to him honestly telling him that I never submitted myself to a DNA analysis and of course whitout a DNA analysis, how am I to know if I am R1a, R1b, J1, J2, I1, Q, N, E1b1a etc...?




What do you mean?
My question was just ironical reply to your answer. I don't care about your origin.
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Old March 23rd, 2009 #25
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This article is written by one of the greatest Macedonians in XX century, Krste Petkov Misirkov in the 1925.

Macedonian Nationalism

We, the Macedonian intelligentsia, undoubtedly bear the greatest responsibility for the situation facing our country today. There are, however, certain extenuating circumstances which might justify us in the eyes of our unfortunate fellow-countrymen, especially those who have been driven from their homes and are now forced to wander, unwelcome and unwanted, in various part's of Bulgaria.

For a full thirty years the Macedonians have been waging a heroic battle to release themselves from the yoke of Turkey. But at the same time the foreign propagandists have been infecting our country and demoralizing part of the population. The Macedonian intel-ligentsia have largely devoted themselves to revolutionary activity; but there have been some who have found other ways possibly no less important than that of the revolutionary struggle to ensure the success of Macedonia's endeavors.

My book On the Macedonian Matters, published in 1903 in Sofia, and my article On the Importance of the Moravian or Resavian Dialects for the Historical Ethnography of the Balkan Peninsula, have shown that some of the Macedonian intellectuals are seeking and have found, another way of fighting, i.e. an independent Macedonian scientific way of thinking and a Macedonian national Consciousness.

I do not regret having declared myself in favor of Macedonian separatism twenty-eight years ago. Separatism was for me, and remains, the only way out, the best means by which the Macedonian intelligentsia could pay back and continue to repay their debt towards their people.

In 1912, when I was asked by my fellow villagers what should be done if our village remained under Greek control, I answered: no matter under whose control this village may remain, you will stay where you are, you shall not move anywhere.

Maybe from the great-Bulgarian point of view my advice was not sufficiently patriotic, but from the Macedonian point of view this was the only proper advice.

But when the Greeks forced many Macedonians to flee to Bulgaria I should, as a Bulgarian, have been glad that the Bulgarian people had lost their land just as long as they had been spared from Hellenization.

But I am not glad that they were forced to move. Nor can I look at this question through the eyes of Mr. Mih. Madzharov (one of the editors of Mir B.K.) who says that the underground and the city industry of Bulgaria benefited from the arrival of the refugees.

Here my Macedonian patriotism overcomes my Bulgarian patriotism. The Macedonians are necessary to Macedonia; it is only with the Macedonians that Macedonia can belong to the Macedonians, never without them.

The Macedonians should either remain where they are and let the devil take care of them if he likes or, if it is their fate to be forced to move, they should move from one part of Macedonia to another, but this should still be Macedonia and not Bulgaria, Serbia, or Greece. If they are driven out of the Greek part of Macedonia, the Macedonians should move into the Serbian part of Macedonia and form military settlements to await the day when they might return to their homes.

You may say that a Bulgarian cannot reason like this. Yes, but a Macedonian can and should reason like this.

I hope it will not be held against me that I, as a Macedonian, place the interests of my country before all... I am a Macedonian, I have a Macedonian's consciousness, and so I have my own Macedonian view of the past, present, and future of my country and of all the South Slavs; and so I should like them to consult us, the Macedonians, about all the questions concerning us and our neighbors, and not have everything end merely with agreements between Bulgaria and Serbia about us - but without us … Note: This article was written after an agreement signed between Greece and Bulgaria in 1923, according to which a great number of Aegean Macedonians would be turned out of their homes and driven into Bulgaria during winter, under the worst possible conditions, when the Bulgarians had not made even the most rudimentary preparations for receiving, housing, and feeding tens and even hundreds of thousands of Macedonian refugees.

K. Misirkov: Macedonian Nationalism, “Mir”, 7427, 12. III 1925, 1.
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Old March 23rd, 2009 #26
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Macedonian Culture
Our confidence, not only in the preservation of our nation but also in the ultimate triumph of the ideal of all Macedonians to achieve independence, is founded as we mentioned earlier not so much on the weakness of our enemy, or on aid from abroad, as on the knowledge of our people and of their past.
Some, however, may ask whether there really exists a Macedonian national culture and a Macedonian history which could be compared to that of the Serbs (read in here "and Bulgarians" - B.K.) and which would serve as foundation for the Macedonian an ideal of an independent Macedonia? Fortunately, we are able to give a positive answer to this: Macedonian national culture and history, being different from those of Serbia and Bulgaria, exist primarily because they have not been submitted to systematic and unbiased study. Both the Serbs and the Bulgarians, with great partiality and self-interest, chose to take from Macedonian culture and history only those aspects which attested to glory of the Serbian or Bulgarian national name, and simply ignored the questions of crucial importance either because they did not concern them or because they ran counter to the national ideals of the Serbian or Bulgarian historical researchers and their fellows.
I said that this was fortunate for Macedonian national culture and history because the Macedonian people were thus armed with an invincible weapon in their battle for human rights land a free national life on an equal footing with the other cultured nations.
Unfortunately, the independent study of Macedonian culture and history was begun only a short while ago by the Macedonians themselves, who, at the end of the last century began to lose faith in the scholars of Belgrade and Sofia with their more or less unanimous contention that the Slavs, during the Middle Ages, were a disorganized and unenlightened people who were spared from Hellenization thanks only to the state which had been first founded by the Turanian Bulgarians and later included in the Serbian state of Nemanjich.
But such assertions were equally erroneous in Belgrade and in Sofia, being backed as they were by the authority of Jagich and Marin Drinov.
We Macedonians have found this to be an error which resulted in a misconception on the part of both the Bulgarians and the Serbs, not only of the history of Macedonia and the Macedonians during the Middle Ages, but also of the history of the Serbs and Bulgarians.
We are able to show that the case was quite the contrary, that it was in fact the Macedonians who were the most active of all the South Slavs, more so even than the Turanian Bulgarians, throughout the entire Middle Ages right up to the conquest of the Balkan Peninsula by the Turks; we can also show that it was the Macedonians who waged the longest and hardest battle for their spiritual and political emancipation during the nineteenth century and the first quarter of the twentieth century.
Our failures, both in the Middle Ages and in more recent times, were the result of circumstances, which had nothing in common with the national awareness, and alleged lack of organization of the Macedonians.
The age long struggle of the Macedonians for cultural advance and national preservation, beginning 400-500 years before the emergence of the Serbian state of Nemanjich and continuing through the rise and decline of this state, taken together with the epic struggles for religious and political freedom, has gone to the making of Macedonia's national culture and of our national history.

K. Misirkov- Macedonian, Macedonian culture, “Mir”, XXX, 7155, 19.IV.1924, 1.
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Old March 23rd, 2009 #27
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The self-determination of the Macedonians

My article Macedonian Nationalism, which appeared in Mir on 12 March this year, aroused the ire of the paper Svobodna rech, which described me as "a man who still does not even know his own nationality", a "simple-minded thinker who is capable of writing nonsense, of sinking even lower", and who is "well-known for having once served in the Serbian propaganda service" and for lending his support to the theories of the Belgrade professor Cvyitch concerning the existence of a separate Macedonian nationality". As a result of these slanders against me in Svobodna rech many of my own townsfolk turned in fury upon me, and there were even some people who thoughtlessly claimed that they knew that in my student days I had attended assemblies of both the Bulgarian and the Serbian students and that this was why I had been driven out of the Bulgarian assemblies.
Similar senseless accusations were made in Svobodna rech and, as was only to be expected, these false rumors spread around Karlovo. This, however, did not greatly disturb me, as would have been clear to anyone who had read my article in Mir and who knew anything about my past… I knew full well that I would be attacked for my Macedonian Nationalism and that my article could certainly not be published in Ilinden. Nevertheless, although I was far from sure that it would be printed in Mir, I wrote out the article and sent it to this journal. And two days after it had appeared, Svobodna rech made me out to be a man who does not know his own nationality.
I was fully aware that I will be attacked for my “Macedonian nationalism”, that this article has no chance to be published in “Ilinden”, and I was not even sure that they will print it in “Mir”. I still wrote the article and sent it to the newspaper “Mir”. On the second day after its printing “Svobodna rech” named me a man that does not know his ethnicity.
Unfortunately “Svobodna rech” cannot make me give up my “lowly reasoning”. I still find that Macedonia today is butchered, that Greeks took their best parts, and have chased away the Macedonian population and replaced them with Asiatic new-comers that today are piled up next to the Serbian and Bulgarian border, the same as once the Byzantine Emperors were establishing next to the Bulgarian border military settlements of the Asiatic colonists: Armenians and Paulikians. I also find that if Serbs and Bulgarians do not find peace, and Macedonians are not included in voluntary cooperation with both Bulgarians and Serbs for safeguarding against the Greek wave that slowly, but surely moves from south toward north, all of us: Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians will drown in the non-Slavic see that surrounds us from all sides. I think that only in agreement and cooperation between Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgarians is the salvation for all of us. Serbs and Bulgarians were fighting, Greeks and Romanians were profiting: they lost Macedonia, Trace and Dobrudza.
The most important condition for a cooperation between Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians, however, is the freedom of self-determination of Macedonians. And that is why, regarding this last issue, I emphasized the principle of the Macedonian patriotism and nationalism, as a fully neutral and satisfying for all: Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians alike; but for now it is more correct to say that it is equally unsatisfying for all: Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians.
Since it is primarily us Macedonians that are suffering from the Serb-Bulgarian conflict, it is our duty to search for means and ways of resolving that conflict. That is forcing us “to know” up to the current day our nationality and to tell both Serbs and Bulgarians: forget about your big-Serb and big-Bulgarian ideas, give up enforcing your nationalism and patriotism on us, since it basically is putting your interests up front instead of ours. Let us have our own understanding for our relations toward you and your conflict about us and our fatherland, as well as for the means that will bring us to a general South Slav benefit. Let us have our own Macedonian national feelings and to create Macedonian culture, as we did that during the ages when our fatherland was not part of the same state with yours.
As Macedonians we will be more useful for all: for Macedonia, for Bulgaria and for Serbia and in general for the whole South Slav community, than as Bulgarians and Serbs.
As a Bulgarian I would have said long time ago: What Macedonia! It is good for me here too. I don’t need to think for what is already lost. But as Macedonian, in Bulgaria I feel as in a foreign land, although between brothers, I’m not at home, in my fatherland. My fatherland is there, where I have been born and where I should leave my bones, where my son should go at least, if I am not allowed to go myself.
The awareness and the feeling that I am Macedonian should stand higher than everything else in the world. Macedonians should not let themselves been assimilated and to lose their individuality living among Bulgarians and Serbs. We can acknowledge the closeness of the Serb, Bulgarians and Macedonian interests, but we need to evaluate them from the Macedonian stand point of view.
Uncompromising and unlimited love toward Macedonia, the constant thinking and working for the interests of Macedonia and the full conservativism in the manifestations of the Macedonian national spirit: the language, the national poetry, mentality and customs – those are the main characteristics of the Macedonian nationalism, demonstrated through “lowly reasonings of a man that still does not know his nationality”.
But we are not egoists. We don’t think only about ourselves. We are ready to make a good service to both Serbs and Bulgarians, but only if that service is voluntary and not forced.
How we can serve Serbs: we will all die, and we will not let the Greek foot to cross the current border of the Serb and Bulgarian Macedonia. But we will do that as Macedonians, and not as Serbs. We will fight with Greeks because they are our only historic and age old enemies. Our complete Macedonian national history is full with fights against Greeks. There is no fight with Bulgarians and Serbs recorded in the Macedonian history. Bulgarians and Serbs have respected the national rights of the Macedonians in the middle ages, and it was only Greeks that were destroying our national spirit and were de-nationalizing us. They even to the current day are chasing us away from our native fireplaces, and are reminding us that we have an age old obligation to chase the un-invited guests from our grand father’s and great grand-father’s lands.
That is the Macedonian national feeling, which is the historic call of every Macedonian that can be fulfilled only as a free and equal citizen of Yugoslavia, allowed to think and feel and talk and act as Macedonian.

K. Misirkov: The self-determination of Macedonians, “Mir”, 7427, 25. III 1925, 1.
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Old March 24th, 2009 #28
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Biblijata na Makedonizmot ja postiras.
 
Old March 24th, 2009 #29
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Originally Posted by Aleksandar View Post
@Tulpar

Where are you from?
Hes syrian arab mud from southwestern syria.

He needs to vist some one like dr phil so he may wake's up and realize
finally that he doesnt belong here...
 
Old March 24th, 2009 #30
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Hes syrian arab mud from southwestern syria.

He needs to vist some one like dr phil so he may wake's up and realize
finally that he doesnt belong here...
Syrians here?
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Old March 24th, 2009 #31
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biblijata na makedonizmot ja postiras.
Да, ќе ја постирам цела книга.
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Old March 24th, 2009 #32
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Originally Posted by Aleksandar View Post
This article is written by one of the greatest Macedonians in XX century, Krste Petkov Misirkov in the 1925.
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Originally Posted by Aleksandar View Post
Macedonian Culture
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Originally Posted by Aleksandar View Post
The self-determination of the Macedonians
Ha, thank you much, I will be reading those.

EDIT: Okay I read it, it says that Greeks are the ennemy of Macedonian. But then he says that Bulgarian are allies to the Macedonian? But aren't Bulagrians the one who call themselves "FYROMians"? If so, aren't FYROMians ennemies of the Macedonians due to the fact that they are claming to be Macedonians because they say that they mixed with Macedonians?


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Syrians here?
Well aivazovski88 is a Kavkazian, remember the Kavkazian Joseph Stalin who killed millions of White Russians?
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Old March 25th, 2009 #33
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Ha, thank you much, I will be reading those.

EDIT: Okay I read it, it says that Greeks are the ennemy of Macedonian. But then he says that Bulgarian are allies to the Macedonian? But aren't Bulagrians the one who call themselves "FYROMians"? If so, aren't FYROMians ennemies of the Macedonians due to the fact that they are claming to be Macedonians because they say that they mixed with Macedonians?




Well aivazovski88 is a Kavkazian, remember the Kavkazian Joseph Stalin who killed millions of White Russians?
Stalin was Georgian JEW.
aivazovski88 is Armenian
 
Old March 25th, 2009 #34
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I see why you are defending greeks they are Semit people just like you.
 
Old March 25th, 2009 #35
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I see why you are defending greeks they are Semit people just like you.
I saw that too.
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Old March 25th, 2009 #36
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Stalin was Georgian JEW.
aivazovski88 is Armenian
yes Stalin was Georgian..but he wasnt Jew..he was one of greatest Jew killers in history, he killed more Jews than Hitler (Lord rest his soul)..but also Stalin kill many white pepole...resime of Stalin..he was idiot...
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Old March 25th, 2009 #37
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Stalin was Georgian JEW.
As bmwbiker said, Stalin was certainly not a Jew neither was he an Aryan, but a kavkaz nigger.


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aivazovski88 is Armenian
Georgians, Armenians = Kavkazians.




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Originally Posted by VMRO View Post
I see why you are defending greeks they are Semit people just like you.
Were exactly did I defend greeks? I do not know what you mean by Greeks being "semite people", but I guess you are saying they are bad quality whites. So after reading this I went and looked for pictures of greeks and yeah, alot of them look pretty brownish in appearance, with swarthy skin and very dark phenotypes.

But again, so are these:


I guess it is due to the fact that both Macedonia and Greece are located so near to non-white territory, hence a more prevalence to pocess a noticable amount of mongrel elements:
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Old March 26th, 2009 #38
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yes Stalin was Georgian..but he wasnt Jew..he was one of greatest Jew killers in history, he killed more Jews than Hitler (Lord rest his soul)..but also Stalin kill many white pepole...resime of Stalin..he was idiot...
There are some rumors about stalin beeing ossetian,

i also heard that he was a son of a georgian whore,and its not clear whos his father,some say that his step father was armenian,thats why he was one of the most anti armenian soviet leaders.

Whatever he was,hes one of the few non caucasoid turkic mongrels that live in kavkaz.
 
Old March 26th, 2009 #39
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As bmwbiker said, Stalin was certainly not a Jew neither was he an Aryan, but a kavkaz nigger.




Georgians, Armenians = Kavkazians.






Were exactly did I defend greeks? I do not know what you mean by Greeks being "semite people", but I guess you are saying they are bad quality whites. So after reading this I went and looked for pictures of greeks and yeah, alot of them look pretty brownish in appearance, with swarthy skin and very dark phenotypes.

But again, so are these:


I guess it is due to the fact that both Macedonia and Greece are located so near to non-white territory, hence a more prevalence to pocess a noticable amount of mongrel elements:
And you're still avoiding to tell us about your ethnicity?
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Old March 26th, 2009 #40
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And you're still avoiding to tell us about your ethnicity?
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My question was just ironical reply to your answer. I don't care about your origin.
Those are your words.
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