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Old August 18th, 2009 #101
spikeman
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I would choose something like a S&W Model 10 with the short barrel and the hammer spur cut off. I had one of these when I was a teenager and never had a problem concealing it. I also owned the Beretta Bobcat (with the pop-up barrel). It was a true boot gun, but it was severely under powered. I have heard of 25 ACP's not penetrating leather jackets. A friend of mine shot at a windshield of a car and the bullets deflected off the windshield. What I consider the worst of them to be is the Raven 25 auto. I had a friend who purchased a bunch of these (because they were so cheap) and was trying to sell me one. The freakin' grips fell off the piece of crap as we were handling it. The 25 ACP has less power than a 22. Another advantage of using a solid .38 is that you can use hot loads. I used to have a guy handload my 38 SPL's to factory .357 velocity. Of course it resulted in the occasional split casing and flattened primers, but when shot out of a SOLID revolver there are no worries. The other issue is capacity. If you are going to war take a Colt Commander or a SIG. Unless you are defending yourself against 10 people (all of them armed) you wouldn't need more than 6 rounds. If reloading is an issue there are speedloaders. In my opinion, the roar of that handloaded 38 SPL as you shoot the first assailant is more of a deterent than the pop of your high capacity mini-auto. For self-defense, silencing the weapon is not a really high concern, is it? (I did devise a really cool silencer for my Beretta Bobcat that fit on the little 3/8 inch of barrel that protrudes out the front and then clipped over the the slide to lock the round in the breach. It was as big as the gun itself but it was pretty quiet.)
 
Old August 18th, 2009 #102
Mike in Denver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeman View Post
I would choose something like a S&W Model 10 with the short barrel and the hammer spur cut off....
S&W makes a hammer-less model 642. It's mostly titanium. It is very easy to conceal. I've talked to cops while I had mine in my front jeans pocket, and they had no idea I was carrying. It's not a gun to take to the range and shoot 200 rounds every weekend. As light as it is, it get tiresome very quickly. Also as it has no hammer, it is not the most accurate gun at anything above 25 feet, but for a concealable gun that shoots +p, I think it is a good choice.

It doesn't have the classic S&W look, like the model 10, but I'm never more than a few feet away from it at home. Away from the house...well, who knows?

Mike
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Old August 18th, 2009 #103
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I used to own a stainless S&W .357 with a short barrel and rubber grips for foul weather activities. Sold it back in the 90's. Seems like it was a Model 65. It was sort of compact. I remember when I tried to walk around with my Model 29 (4 in barrel) in my boot for a day. It bruised my leg after a short time. I got a pancake holster for that one that kind of hid the lump.
 
Old February 11th, 2010 #104
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For a Conceal carry a .38 +p Revolver should do the trick , Autos can Jam,Revolver's rarely Jam , but you must practice you might not get a second chance, know your Gun well , and be prepared for the worst , Bad Guys do not allways act like they do in the Movie's , there is no point in carrying a Gun if you are not prepared to use it Billy Tucker
 
Old December 17th, 2010 #105
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To the OP

For a newbie carrier the .38 is the way to go.. it's merits have already been hashed out. You will need to keep lint and debris cleaned out of it as revolvers pick up that stuff like magnets and it can be disastrous (locked up cylinder and maybe even a kaboom from severely obstructed barrel) I would recommend a stainless Ruger SP101 or a S & W J frame if it's going to be pocket carry. The S & W has a better trigger, the Rugers usually have a better barrel profile and are sturdier. Get at least a 2.25 inch barrel, a 3 inch is better but less concealable in a pocket. Note that even stainless can rust so keep it clean and lightly lubed.. especially the crane/interior of the cylinder where the revolving occurs. These little buggers are difficult to shoot well at any distance but up close they can do the trick. Carry at least one speedloader on your person, and learn the police style reload technique

Speedloader usage and types. We like HKS types, they are more compact and very reliable


Here's some good advice on handguns

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_types.htm


My wife has always used revolvers.. M65 .357 magnum as primary, M649 Bodyguard .38 for backup and jogging with a fanny pack. We are converting her over to our new Glock M23s, and we are looking hard at the Ruger LCP .380s as backup/derringers. She will likely still use her .38 for jogging and such, but those little Rugers are TINY and effective enough if used correctly (IE accurately empty the magazine, they are not "clips") For her the Ruger will be a deep concealment backup piece for business. For me the Ruger will be literally a boot gun as I will never give up my Star Firestar 9MM as a second CCW. I love that little gun, it's the nickel Starvel finish and has done good by me for decades. Fits in my front jeans pocket and saw me through some scary times in literal ghettos where I had to work

Watch any three gun competition or the Magpul training vids and you'll quickly see the weakness of the revolver in modern combat.. unless you are an ace like Mikulek you will do better with an auto.. you must train, however!
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Old September 26th, 2012 #106
Roy Wagahuski
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Now..... this is what I call an 'outfit'.

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Old December 27th, 2012 #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NS Cat View Post
Ok so the .25acp has less penetration than the .22 but it is bigger right?
What about the .32? It is bigger and has more penetration than both the .22 and .25 right?

Why is the .380 the most useless round? What round should be used instead to do its purpose better?
I helping my daughter pick out a concealed carry gun right now, and I would steer her toward a 22 magnum over a 32 or 25. A 22 magnum will give more penetration, and with an additional 9 shot 22 long rifle cylinder, she could afford to practice as much as she wants. But, that is just me. With a 9
(apparently it is 8 shot) shot 22 magnum revolver, I would not fear a couple or three bad guys. of course, I have shot all sorts of guns since 1951 and hunted squirrels with a pistol. I had a 9 mm Browning Hi Power one time that I never hit anything with, because I couldn't afford to practice with it. I could knock squirrels out of tree tops with my 9 shot 22 long rifle Harrington Richardson 999Sportsman. That is an option.

If some one wants a small shell with shocking power, there is the 327 magnum. One could practice with 32 or 32 longs and carry 327 magnums. An issue would be ammo. I don't see 327 ammo sitting on shelves. 9mm seems to be the cheapest center fire to practice with. 9mm is big enough for me. It may be too big for my daughter!

I'm thinking that my daughter would do well with a Ruger LCR 38 sp +p, a Kel Tec 9mm, or a Ruger LC9. I see clips(uhh, "magazines"- for the obsessive compulsives) available for the Ruger in 15 rounds. Nice in the house, but wouldn't fit in her purse. I really like the Ruger LCR. Seems like it would be more reliable for her. But, only five shots. The 22 magnum wheel gives 9 shots with all of that cheap practice.

Editing in:

I'm looking at the Taurus 905 9mm that uses the moon clips, but it will function without them. I watched a couple three videos on youtube, and it looks okay. 9mm is cheaper to practice with than 38, and it is effective enough. The revolver looks solid and people claim that it is reliable. She can carry it loaded with the moon clip for rapid ejection, and carry a couple of loaded speed strips. With a lot of practice, she should be good to go.
 
Old January 10th, 2013 #108
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Looks like nobody home here. She really liked the Ruger LCP, so I gave her the money for that one, and ordered 500 rounds of .380 for her to start practicing with. Ordered two 15 round mags for it, too.

So, with the .380, does she want fmj for penetration, or hp for maximum damage on entry? Maybe hp in summer and fmj in winter?
 
Old January 10th, 2013 #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeman View Post
I would choose something like a S&W Model 10 with the short barrel and the hammer spur cut off. I had one of these when I was a teenager and never had a problem concealing it. I also owned the Beretta Bobcat (with the pop-up barrel). It was a true boot gun, but it was severely under powered. I have heard of 25 ACP's not penetrating leather jackets. A friend of mine shot at a windshield of a car and the bullets deflected off the windshield. What I consider the worst of them to be is the Raven 25 auto. I had a friend who purchased a bunch of these (because they were so cheap) and was trying to sell me one. The freakin' grips fell off the piece of crap as we were handling it. The 25 ACP has less power than a 22. Another advantage of using a solid .38 is that you can use hot loads. I used to have a guy handload my 38 SPL's to factory .357 velocity. Of course it resulted in the occasional split casing and flattened primers, but when shot out of a SOLID revolver there are no worries. The other issue is capacity. If you are going to war take a Colt Commander or a SIG. Unless you are defending yourself against 10 people (all of them armed) you wouldn't need more than 6 rounds. If reloading is an issue there are speedloaders. In my opinion, the roar of that handloaded 38 SPL as you shoot the first assailant is more of a deterent than the pop of your high capacity mini-auto. For self-defense, silencing the weapon is not a really high concern, is it? (I did devise a really cool silencer for my Beretta Bobcat that fit on the little 3/8 inch of barrel that protrudes out the front and then clipped over the the slide to lock the round in the breach. It was as big as the gun itself but it was pretty quiet.)
You have to love those little Bobcats!
 
Old January 10th, 2013 #110
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I got a Sig 9mm two years ago. Love it. The only drawback is it doesn't have a safety. You have to have alot of thumb strength to engage.
 
Old January 17th, 2013 #111
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I ordered two 15 round mags for her Ruger LCP. They came today. They are for the house. I will tell her to just load 10 rounds it the mags so they will function better and won't compress the springs so badly. 20 rounds of 380 hollow points ought to do for her. She has her 500 rounds to start practicing now. We will go out Saturday and work on stance, and grip while firing to create habit. Somewhere in that 500 rounds she should have it down. Once she is comfortable with the firearm, and hitting the target, I will start pressuring her to distract her while she is firing. I will work on her mind and emotions to stress her. I know what buttons to push. Hope she doesn't get pissed and shoot me.
 
Old January 17th, 2013 #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Ramsey View Post
I got a Sig 9mm two years ago. Love it. The only drawback is it doesn't have a safety. You have to have alot of thumb strength to engage.
No safety?
May I suggest that you look at something in the Ruger range. Ruger uses what is in my humble opinion the best safety system yet devised. Chamber the round, then use a decocking lever to ease the springs. The first shot is then fired in the manner of a double-action revolver. Subsequent shots are like any other semi-automatic pistol. When you have finished shooting, use the decocking lever again and reholster the weapon.
The system is very safe and just about idiot proof.
 
Old January 19th, 2013 #113
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Even a 9mm Luger is a more powerful round than a .38 special. More accuracy and range also. You can buy sub compact pistols that are about the same size as a snub nose revolver. They got sub compact .40 caliber Glocks about the size of a wallet.
 
Old March 25th, 2013 #114
Roy Wagahuski
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Lazily browsing kahr's site. Those fucking maniacs ask a grand for their sub-compact 9mm. A grand.

For a 6-round magazine, DAO 9mm.

Advantages over a $200 .38 snub from a pawn shop? Uh... 0.225" less width for concealability. Hoo boy. Big fucking advantage.

Oh, and a grand less to feed your alcoholism.

Because any wage-earner pissing it away on these overpriced niche autos everywhere nowadays must be a drunk.
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Last edited by Roy Wagahuski; March 25th, 2013 at 11:25 PM. Reason: none of your business
 
Old March 26th, 2013 #115
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Nothing, and I mean nothing is more reliable than a quality revolver.

So when Jamal and Devonte are looking to take you out so dey can bust up in yo' bitches azz... you had better hope your plastic auto doesn't fail you.

But I would never take that gamble myself.
 
Old March 26th, 2013 #116
Roy Wagahuski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarehead Chris
Nothing, and I mean nothing is more reliable than a quality revolver.
Well, the difference is a little exaggerated; it's necessary to be specific what you mean by 'reliability'. Most auto 'unreliability' is an issue with ammo.

Edit: The paste below explains it better than I could tonight, strung out on black tea...

Quote:
Bear in mind that an autoloader is actually very, very simple. Most autoloaders have fewer moving parts (connected with the operation of the gun; I'm leaving aside controls like safeties and cylinder latches) than revolvers, and those parts are fairly large and easy to work with. Autoloaders can (usually) be torn down for maintenance, and repairs/upgrades are an at-home job.

By contrast, the only two revolvers to ever see long military careers are the British Webley and the Russian M1895. Both were so ruggedly simple that they could be fixed with bubblegum and a rock.

Most revolvers, on the other hand, are very precise instruments with lots of moving parts. Those parts are held in place mostly just by their position in the gun vis-a-vis the other parts they're next to. Open up a revolver sometime: it's like a mechanical watch. And just like a watch, all it takes to tie the gun up more-or-less permanently is for one of those parts to break, bend, or get knocked out of place.

But the bottom line is that automatic pistols no longer suffer from any significant deficiency in reliability and have not for many, many years. Automatics became near-universal military arms before WWII, and most major powers had at least partially adopted an autoloading design by the time of WWI. Bear in mind that in 1911, rifles were still being issued with magazine cutoffs because they were intended for use primarily as single-shot weapons: the magazine was to be held in reserve for emergencies. The world's militaries were not terribly interested in fast reloads -or- high ammo capacity (with the burgeoning exception of the British, thanks to the Boer War) at the time. Autopistols caught on with militaries because they were easier for an average trooper to maintain and much easier to repair/clear in the event of a stoppage or catastrophic malfunction.

Essentially the only thing which will cause a modern autoloader to malfunction are bad ammo, bad technique (ie "limp wristing"), or the grossest possible lack of maintenance.
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Old March 26th, 2013 #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Wagahuski View Post
Well, the difference is a little exaggerated; it's necessary to be specific what you mean by 'reliability'. Most auto 'unreliability' is an issue with ammo.Edit: The paste below explains it better than I could tonight, strung out on black tea...
Almost all semi (and full) auto feeding problems are the result of faulty and/or damaged magazines, provided the ammo is standard. To reliably feed hollow points and such in an automatic, it may be necessary to polish the feed ramp and chamfer the mouth of the chamber. (as I have done with my 1911) But remember, with autos, the magazine is the thing. It doesn't take much of a bang or bump (or a drop) to distort the sheet metal feed lips of a magazine. And once so damaged, they cannot be counted on to reliably function. What's cheaper, a new $20 magazine, or your life?
 
Old March 26th, 2013 #118
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Eh..... no.

The point was that autos suffer no comparable deficiency in reliability. In other words, assuming the gun is clean and undamaged (including magazines), it will shoot every time. Also assuming that, with any given auto, one uses the correct ammo. Nowhere was it asserted or implied that all autos flawlessly feed all ammo types/bullet shapes.

Yeah. A lot of them jam on hollowpoints, but a lot of them don't. That's what "bad ammo" meant. It's relative.

Doesn't this go without saying?
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Old March 26th, 2013 #119
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Some good animations on how the Glock, Beretta, and S&W revolver work (with all components)

http://www.genitron.com/Basics/Interactive-Glock-Pistol

http://www.genitron.com/Basics/Inter...Beretta-Pistol

http://www.genitron.com/Basics/Interactive-Revolver

*edit*

Notice the tilting barrel tilts back on the Glock. This helps feeding, IMO, especially with JHP ammunition. Many modern designs have switched to this type of action, one of the reasons for the famous feeding reliability of a Glock.

Last edited by Mr A.Anderson; March 26th, 2013 at 06:00 PM.
 
Old April 6th, 2013 #120
Roy Wagahuski
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Autos' only real ammo problem is their lesser damage potential, as they aren't wadcutter shooters, at all.

I much prefer a full caliber bullet over the reduced frontal area on the sharply ogived, auto-friendly JHPs that aren't even guaranteed to expand, and usually don't. And even when one does, effects less total tissue damage than would a full wadcutter of the same caliber.

I guess most people don't care.
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