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Old July 19th, 2008 #1
Alex Linder
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Default Chronicles on WN: Flemio Says Racial Nationalism is "Our Greatest National Tragedy"

This appeared in a thread at Chronicles a couple weeks ago. Do you agree with Fleming? If not, why not?

62TJF

There is a bit too much smuggling in of extraneous and irrelevant ideas here, and one should make distinctions. For example, to describe multi-culturalism as in any way nationalist would need a great deal of justification. Then there is the question of nationalism and racism. There is nothing especially nationalistic or racialist about people wanting to live with people like themselves and not to accord privileges to those they perceive as alien. Southern nationalist movements often suck up racialists as they progress if only because slavery and its residue are an issue in the South and because the subject is treated far more hypocritically in the North. Whatever a nation is, whatever a commonwealth is, there is no successful example of a multi-racial unified state. Multi-ethnic Switzerland, where the greatest distinction is the rather narrow distance between Catholic Italians and Protestants could only work by being cantonized. Here in America, the racial and ethnic groups only manage to coexist in a commonwealth when either 1) one group dominates the other completely or 2) all the groups lose their sense of identity.

The problem, then, is not racial and ethnic preference or the desire to live in separate communities or even old-fashioned bigotry, which is a normal part of the human condition. The problem is the theoretical racial nationalism that flows out of the French Revolution. When I hear young “conservatives” prating about their race or nation, I have to remind myself they are young, marginalized, emasculate young males who will never grow into manhood. It is our greatest national tragedy. Nonetheless, as much as one might pity them-and I do–they have to be prevented from infecting our discourse.

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=603
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #2
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What a puke. He lives in a fantasy land ivory tower.
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Old July 19th, 2008 #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
When I hear young “conservatives” prating about their race or nation, I have to remind myself they are young, marginalized, emasculate young males who will never grow into manhood.
Thomas Fleming referring to anyone as "emasculate" is quite possibly the most nauseating morsel of hypocrisy ever regurgitated.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #4
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Race nationalism did not flow out of the French Revolution. The French Revolution was the opposite of that, at least as I understand it.


These people get a lot of mileage out of the whole "multiethnic" thing. They compare the disparate cultures of Europe to the disparate races of Man as if they amount to the same thing, and they aren't the same thing. White people, of whatever culture, are a sub species of homo sapien and they are distinct, different, and superior to the other sub species of homo sapiens. We shouldn't let them get away with claiming that the difference between French and British are no different than that between whites and blacks.

By the way, he is right that young white males have been "marginalized and emasculated." This begs the question how that got that way and who is responsible for that state of affairs. I don't think that is a question he can answer with any hope of a credible answer.

-Brian
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Old July 19th, 2008 #5
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Yeah I would have to agree. This twink is trying to turn the tables on his mockers, by using their plausible case against him and his as an implausible case against them. This passes for clever among the mentally scrawny of his tepid sect. Fact is, his paleotwinks let the jews into organized conservatism, and the jews took it over three days later without a shot. The pallids vent their limp fury on us WN because we fight the jews, we don't yield to them. What they truly hate, and envy us, is our tone. We write like free men because we are free men. They can't do that. They must toe the party line. Oh, how it eats at them.

It is easily demonstrable that the jews do more to undermine the church these guys defend than any other group, yet the pallids, curiously enough, never direct any criticism at jews, let alone hate. Their hate is reserved for nazis and racial nationalists - the very people who strike real blows against the jews.

Odd world, itz.

Last edited by Alex Linder; July 19th, 2008 at 07:31 PM.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #6
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Stone View Post
Race nationalism did not flow out of the French Revolution. The French Revolution was the opposite of that, at least as I understand it.

These people get a lot of mileage out of the whole "multiethnic" thing. They compare the disparate cultures of Europe to the disparate races of Man as if they amount to the same thing, and they aren't the same thing. White people, of whatever culture, are a sub species of homo sapien and they are distinct, different, and superior to the other sub species of homo sapiens. We shouldn't let them get away with claiming that the difference between French and British are no different than that between whites and blacks.

By the way, he is right that young white males have been "marginalized and emasculated." This begs the question how that got that way and who is responsible for that state of affairs. I don't think that is a question he can answer with any hope of a credible answer.

-Brian
For so long paleoconservatism has pretended to discuss things it must come as a shock to these emasculates that some people really do discuss them - with no holds barred, no position foresworn a priori.

It's the knowledge that he is acceding in his own gelding, that he is self-censoring, that accounts for the curiously overstrong hatred Fleming always exibits for those who write about jews as though they were any other people or phenomenon.

I mean really, "our greatest national tragedy"? How unmeasured is that?

Our greatest national tragedy is that we treated jews as individuals, allowing them to destroy our nation, en route to genociding our race. And ol' nutless wonder Flemio bears his share of the blame because he was down there in the South with the kikes fighting for the communist revolution called civil rights.

Last edited by Alex Linder; July 19th, 2008 at 06:53 PM.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #7
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You'll always note in the whimperings of paleocons that all the temperance, sobriety, measuredness flies out the window the moment they get mocked by men who deal straightforwardly with the subjects they dance around. Hell, it's obvious to a man with eyes that paleocons only deal with race to the extent they do because it draws eyeballs to their sites. They must measure the danger of getting slapped down by their jewish overseers against the prize of alexa. Does the cur dare steal a pork chop off Master Hymie's table? Wait til he turns his nose...

Last edited by Alex Linder; July 19th, 2008 at 07:14 PM.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
You'll always note in the whimperings of paleocons that all the temperance, sobriety, measuredness flies out the window the moment they get mocked by men who deal straightforwardly with the subjects they dance around. Hell, it's obvious to a man with eyes that paleocons only deal with race to the extent they do because it draws eyeballs to their sites.
Bingo. Pat Buchanan pulls the exact same Svengalism while never forgetting the obligatory mention of those "apple pie" blacks from the 50s.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #9
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Stone View Post
Race nationalism did not flow out of the French Revolution. The French Revolution was the opposite of that, at least as I understand it.
Yes. He's just taking whatever he doesn't like and calling it racial nationalism.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #10
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Stone View Post
These people get a lot of mileage out of the whole "multiethnic" thing. They compare the disparate cultures of Europe to the disparate races of Man as if they amount to the same thing, and they aren't the same thing.
They're making ethnicity outweigh race. Which is like saying that the Grand Canyon is nothing compared to a crack in the sidewalk. This is a very common ploy with their paid writers and the sheepdogs like Sid Cundiff.

Comment-dropper Cundiff is a sophist and a deliberate liar . He serves as a sheepdog to bark the easily intimidated conservatives back into line every time they approach the plantation's border: the agreement that, as the price of respectability, paychecks, and the ZOG-guaranteed right to collect 501c3 foundation monies, we'll all shtick to the Big Lie that race-doesnt-matter when writing for the public. The paleocon writers know that their position, putting ethnicity over race, is safe, and that's the reason they write as they do. Not because they believe their public position on race is right. Most of them are well aware they are canting. They must keep the party line on race for reasons of professional security, while indulging a bit of illiberali sentiment privately, after peeking both ways out the blinds. Regarding themselves as men of culture and character, the last civilized holdouts in an age of barbarism, the paleoconservative writers discover that their lying, their deal with the devil, tweaks them more or less continually, since racial truth incompatible with liberalism lies at the bottom of pretty much every issue they write about. Knowing they can't write about the deepest matters honestly, the conservatives lose self respect and become cranky. Needing a place to vent the frustration born of their intellectual tergiversation, and needing to excrete the hostility this self-knowledge creates, they find and turn on and shit on White Nationalists. It's as safe to attack us as it is unsafe to tell the truth about race their jewish masters want covered up. Oh well. Even a eunnuch has to eat. And prudence, remember, is the chief conservative virtue. But verily I say unto you, the one-word definition of conservative is coward.

We can't help but observe the paleocon dogs never bark when the kikes who own them spirit yet another WN or revisionist off to prison for nothing more than speaking his mind. Don't wait up for Tremulous Tommy to mention the persecution of Steve Whittle and Simon Sheppard. Indeed, Fleming has celebrated the jailing of WN. Why? Because it makes it easier for him to maintain his pose as the right margin of respectability - the place to go if you want something different and better than what the Reps and Dems have to offer. In reality, Fleming and crew are part of the System they affect to despise. They may get crumbs compared to the liberals, but they've long since adjusted to that. They're happy with their slice, however small it is. They've lost long enough that the only people they attract are ceta males who I believe get some kind of sexual pleasure out of submitting to a stronger force. They aren't homosexuals, most of the, but they are women-men. They let out the telling little-dog barks whenever they encounter normal men. Or, as Charles Shulz put it in one of his strips, "I'm not like you, Charlie Fleming-Brown. I have to win sometimes."

Quote:
White people, of whatever culture, are a sub species of homo sapien and they are distinct, different, and superior to the other sub species of homo sapiens. We shouldn't let them get away with claiming that the difference between French and British are no different than that between whites and blacks.
Yes, and this brings up another point: the curious lack of interest in the reality of biology. Complete lack of interest in manifold observable differences between all of god's chillun. Indeed, these intellectuals mock anyone who pays attention to discovered facts about this particular aspect of God's creation, even though Kirk said that a tenet of conservatism is paying respect to the diversity of things in this world. Again these pale conservatives show themselves to be liberal: unwilling to admit what the evidence shows, that blacks are not whites. There is neither moral nor biological equality between them. One size does not fit all. Tommy cries when the leftists impose uniformity on as much of the world as they can crush, but he does the same himself with his church. Catholic doctrine is that one man is as good as another. The facts say otherwise. There is no equality in any form, ever, in any sphere.

Quote:
By the way, he is right that young white males have been "marginalized and emasculated." This begs the question how that got that way and who is responsible for that state of affairs. I don't think that is a question he can answer with any hope of a credible answer.

-Brian
Correct. Fleming's whole shtik is about paying loving attention to tinynesses - right up until this concern for detail gets him in trouble with his liberal owners. Then the grossest distinctions fly right out the window. And Semitically Correct pieties, flung in fright, fill the ethersphere.

Last edited by Alex Linder; July 19th, 2008 at 07:51 PM.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #11
Karl Lueger
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Flemmo is Pure jew-think, what hes saying is that a Europe based on "ethnic" is acceptable, but Racial is not,
"Such love of kith and kin is not based in race, but in language, culture, and tradition, and while the process of loyalty begins with the family, it culminates in the commonwealth which fulfills, without superseding, lesser loyalties. As Freeman observes: “Kindred, real or artificial, is the one basis on which all society and all government have grown up.”

Kindred cannot be artificial, then it is NOT kindred, example of White and nigger both called British, one is true other is not, both in that mix by kikes who need to corrupt to fit themselves into wound they cause a society not based on Race.
Ethnic basically allows jews to be part of "ethnic" since they can imitate the ethnicity just a easily but once we get-into Racial it excludes jews, groids etc.

Only an idiot considers kikesFrench revolution anything Nationalist,
there was nothing Racial about it, it was anti-WHite to the core and the rewards Farnce has recived in its nigger-cities proves Flemmo is a liar.
Its like calling jew-bolshevism a Russian revolution. He refers to "rodoljuble"? Love of ones Folk, but folk in a limited sense only, so cunts like this actually approve of conflict amongst Europeans. By Flemmos logic Swedes and Iatilan who imprt niggers that learn the language, customs and reliigon are just as ethnic as any Swede or Itailan, and obvilsy that would include his dear friend the jew, especially if it copied cutoms, language and religion of the people.

He has no base for this argument because they build it on imaginary lines between people of same Race giving-that a greater value than the RAce that created everything their lesser variations he pretends to respect.
Flemmo supports a fragmented Race, not out of some love of variety and "tradition" each ethnicity brings but because it guarantees a fragmented people who when-they do nor act as a Race, are far more manageable and controllable.

"Poles: Czechs, Serbs, Croats, Greeks, and others all had a legitimate desire to live within a state that allowed their language, culture, and religion to flourish." Same old story, divide and conquer, as serves jews an their tools, stay small and weak. He assumes a Racially unified people somehow 'lose' their own identity but a fragmented one is somehow richer for it, even though its the same Race. Flemmo never grew up actually, he just grew old, tired and weak because he and his "paleos" are empty, jew-slaves living in dellusions they are above the foundatiuoins of everythng they never really "conserve" anyway, only help ruin through-their whoredom and cowardice.
They're mummies, thats their conservation, dead, dried up shells, nothing more.

How often does this old washed up coward use "ethnic"..he refers to jews as "ethnic", anything to avoid Race. Race is REAL..German, Italian, Serb, Russian part of White RACE, Flemmo hides behind ethnic notions because it serves jew interest that White people be allowed small concepts of identity.
Jews are our greatest misfortune because they have created a society where "goyim" are allowed to play Ethnic pride as long as it keep them under jew-control and whores like Flemmo can parrot the kikelines.

By Flemms insane logic an Itaialn-Irish kid and a Human-nigger mix areequaly ethnic?? G.L.Rockwell explained their decades of failure and inability to ever change [kosher khanservatisne they are]..more proof right here..the eternal masturbators, perfect description, good for a laugh like Flemmo and his cause.
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Old July 19th, 2008 #12
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This cocksuckers whole piece is simply plagiarized from the Jew Isaiah Berlin if anyone is interested….
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #13
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It is so tired and so old and so dead. Just dead words that do not thrill or excite or encourage anyone to anything, just repulsive hatred of everything European, again and again and agian.

These great European thinkers and writers have no barring what so ever on anti-culture of today. Nobody reads, this is a raw academic hallucination, simply plagiarized from Berlin! And most of it is offensive as it is taken out of context of culture, alienated from the writer himself and other political influences. All the hysteria over “Nationalism” merely serves the Jew, and Jews all the while being the most Nationalistic peoples on the face of the Earth!
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #14
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Goat Wilson chips in with this little piece o' dumb

63Clyde Wilson

“White separatism” is not separatism at all, or even a form of nationalism. but merely an imaginary, substitute form of militant American nationalism.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #15
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Get it? We're just as bad as the jews. We want to go on global crusades. We think we're better than everyone else. We do nothing but tell lies about jews, niggers and mexicans.

What could be more organic and natural than White kids segregating themselves from ZOG's coons in the lunch room? What could be more natural than White parents moving to a Whiter area for peace and safety?

These examples of real, existing, repetitive White behavior the Goat calls "imaginary." His buddies say that Whiteness is an "abstraction."

Reality says otherwise.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #16
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68TJF

I don’t think Frank is listening or if listening not paying attention. Alternatives to what–the Klan, the Citizens Council. Yes, they really succeeded. Kinship has nothing to do with this question. After writing two books (and finishing a third) in which the significance of kinship and friendship is elevated about abstract rationality, I can hardly be accused of undermining such primary attachments. But to a true nationalist or racialist, a son who marries a girl from the wrong race or nation becomes an outcast and his children not members of the family. That is what it means to put ideology above life. Naturally, a sane man wants his grandchildren to look like, act like, and think like his grandparents, but we do not always get everything we want. The question is: What are our priorities. To someone who truly believes in kinship, that is a higher priority than race or nationalism.

As for my friend the late Dr. Francis, I knew him well for nearly 40 years, and there was hardly a subject we did not discuss with complete frankness that sometimes bordered on asperity. As a lapsed Christian turned neo-pagan, he was wrong about a great many things, though he was right about even more and often right in an original sense. Fortunately, he had a change of heart (on teh question of religion) on his death bed and returned to the faith of his childhood and his family. I do not at all object to speaking with or maintaining close friendship with honorable people with whom I disagree. If Taki can say some of his richest friends are Jews, I can say truly that some of my most honorable and principled friends are racialists. I do not believe in demonizing either racialists or communists or nearly any other -ists, and I welcome a principled exchange of views. But the stupid materialist reductionism of most racialists–just like the cowardly liberal fusionists of National Review–share many of the same fantastic assumptions about human nature and society as the Left.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #17
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96TJF

I am sure you disagree on many things, some of them even things that are relevant to this discussion. One matter on which we probably do agree is that races and ethnic groups within races are significantly different and that those differences have implications for the way of life they lead and the political institutions they develop; that two widely diverse groups have a slim chance of coexisting except where one group dominates the other or the two groups live within their own cantons under a federal or imperial umbrella; that mixing of groups creates many difficulties, including confusion of identities, people who cannot function in either society, and a dilution of both cultural backgrounds. The result, in political terms, is a coercive tyranny, which is the only alternative to anarchy. This sketch is only broadly true, however, since anyone who gets around has met, I have, good men and women who are, say, half-Chinese/half-German, but they usually end up identifying strongly with one background, even if they do maintain an appreciation for the other.

The problem is not really created by the occasional mixed race marriage but by a political system that aims at the elimination of the dominant historical identity, in this case Anglo-American and European American. That is what we are up against, and it seems to me that two solutions have been proposed–setting aside acquiescence–and the first is racial nationalism, which requires the nationalists to seize power and impose their will; the second, is Christianity, which requires every believer to do his best to lead a Christian life even in the degrading circumstances of postmodern America. Quite apart from any moral problem with the racial nationalist position, it is both impractical and nostalgic: impractical in the sense that-setting aside our basic differences–people like us have no power and are unlikely ever to improve our position. Here, my good friend Sam Francis and his inspiration Don Warren were absolutely wrong. There will be no Middle American Revolution. It did not work in the late 60’s and that generation seems positively heroic compared with people today. We have become slaves of our appetites. It is nostalgic, because it longs for the good old days of segregation, which are not coming back without a bloodbath that no one has the taste for. Believe me, things are going to get much much worse, and all we can do is to do what the early Christians did: lead the best lives we can, form little communities of faith and civility, and spread the word.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #18
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That's his solution: grin and bear it: quietism. Do nothing. If you resist even being discriminated against, you're a crybaby.

No mention of his own personal role in destroying the South as one of the communist 'civil rights' agitators.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Stone View Post
Race nationalism did not flow out of the French Revolution. The French Revolution was the opposite of that, at least as I understand it.

You are correct, the French Revolution liberated the Jews and brought about the idea of "equality" throughout Europe which was included into the rhetoric of Marx a few decades later.
 
Old July 19th, 2008 #20
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Herder is our LouTsu. He saw that much, he was and is that deep. A deep philosopher and mystic. He was deeply in love with mankind so to paint him even remotely as a “Nationalist” or “racist” is totally disgusting. You see, to take these thinkers out of their space time continuum, to make their profound ideas - simplistic in a modern context and then try to blame them for all the perceived evils of the world is to commit a monstrous act of not only bigotry but anti-intellectualism. Typical.
 
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