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Old October 20th, 2009 #41
Randolf Facto
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Ok, budger, let me bottom-line it for you, since you're oblivious.
"Budger"? Is that some new urban slang I've not heard before? Your strange terms of endearment don't strengthen your arguments.

As far as "oblivious" goes, well... I'll let others judge which of us is wearing blinders.

Quote:
Harold advocates Whites moving to the NW because that's where he is. Not because of any rational reasons. If Harold were in, say, North Carolina, which he was, before he had to leave in order to escape judgment for libeling a fellow WN, he'd be urging Whites to come home to the South.
Patently false. The rationale of choosing the NW Pacific area has been covered in depth on several sites, including perhaps even this one. I'm pretty sure it's not even Covington's idea, originally. So who's the oblivious one? You seem to be blinded by your rancor of this Covington fellow, and the whole NW Imperative goes well beyond one individual.

Admittedly, I don't know the whole background of this author, nor do I care, because

a) many creative types, indeed, especially WN types, have less-than-savory-or-law-abiding backgrounds

b) his personal life, present or past, is immaterial and irrelevant to this discussion.

Quote:
And he'd have a better case for it. Guerrillas of the type he describes need a sea to swim in, and the only part of the country with any kind of residual racial base is the South, certainly not the northwest. But when the real attitudes of the whites of the NW are pointed out, why, there we go again tearing poor Hal down.
Well, that's a laugh! A guerrilla nowadays would just as soon get turned in by a good ol' boy in NASCAR country (wanting to get back to rooting for the black bucks running them touchdowns for 'Bama or the Gators) as anywhere else... and have a whole lot more of enemies to dodge around in areas that are upwards of 20% black.

Quote:
I went to school in Southern California. My school drew a good number of the young elite from Oregon and Washington. I can tell you these people are extremely liberal. They're jewy, WASP-liberal-y, crunchy, granola-y types, not WN. And when you get out in the country, a) there's almost nobody there, and b) wherever there are any people in concentrations the Mexicans are there. I've seen dozens of Yakima papers the last few years, and I assure you that Yakima is full up with Mexicans, just like most of California.
Two points that have already been acknowledged, namely

a) Yes, the young elites of OR and WA are undoubtedly ultra-libs... and in which city in the country would that NOT be the case?

b) Yes, there are enclaves in some areas that have not-insignificant portions of mexicans... exactly how much of the land area of WA, OR, ID, and portions of MT does this Yakima comprise?

As far as your "there's nobody there", I remind you again, and for the last time, of what's already been said in a previous post, speaking of WA only (for the sake of focus), but which applies across the Pacific NW... and of course I have to reiterate once more to you "non-oblivious" types that we're not only speaking about WA when we speak of the NW Imperative):

"And we're talking about a total population of only 6 million to begin with... a very fertile area for future White population growth, if when the time comes that something like the NW Imperative takes hold."

Again, as I said in an earlier posting... if this is the best ammunition you can produce as an argument against the NW Imperative, then (if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor) "your lances are but straws".

There are volumes of info, both pro and con, in re discussion of the NW Imperative on other websites... going back and forth with you guys over meager stats and immaterial complaints has become tedious.

As an earlier poster said, let those with an eye to read peruse the books and study the current political climate here in America and make up their own minds.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #42
PeterKramer
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Originally Posted by Randolf Facto View Post
a) Many of the Whitest states in the country (e.g., Iowa, the entirety of New England, etc.) voted for Obama... what's your point?
I'm not suggesting we migrate to New England or Iowa. I'm making the case that Washington is not worth moving to. Rather than uproot yourself and move to one of the most radically anti-white states in the country stay put.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolf Facto View Post
"Large number of non-whites"? I thought I already put that canard to rest.
Washington is at least one quarter non-white. Your arguments that asians aren't so bad and some hispanics might be sort of White left me unconvinced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolf Facto View Post
As far as voting patterns go, well... Whites aren't going to save themselves through the polls... and elections aren't going to secure the existence of our people and future for our children... those same areas that went for Obama overwhelmingly went for Reagan after a mere 4 years of an inept Carter administration
29 years ago. Washington is now lost.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #43
Randolf Facto
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I'm making the case that Washington is not worth moving to. Rather than uproot yourself and move to one of the most radically anti-white states in the country stay put.
I'm sure some areas of the Pacific Northwest are, indeed, not worth moving to for the time being (e.g., Seattle, Portland, Yakima)... but I see vast areas that are at least as good, and often much better, than the majority of other areas in the country, as it now stands... but more importantly, an area that has great potential for the homeland of a future ethnostate based upon the 14 words.

Barring that, sure then... stay put... and enjoy the slow death of White race that we've been dying for the past 50 years.

Quote:
Washington is at least one quarter non-white. Your arguments that asians aren't so bad and some hispanics might be sort of White left me unconvinced.
As we discussed already, the country itself is pretty much one quarter non-white... what's your point?

Compared to living amongst blacks and mestizos, no, the asians are definitely not such a bad alternative, when faced with those choices.

And if your attitude is that guys like Mark Texeira or Antonio Banderas don't count as "white", well... good luck finding that Isle Thule where only Nordics exist.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #44
Jack Torrance
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For the record, Harold Covington did not invent the Northwest Imperative, nor has he ever made any such claim. The idea appears to have originated sometime in the 1970s with Pastor Wesley Swift and of course Pastor Richard Butler. Pastor Robert Miles was an advocate and was actually planning on selling up his property in Howell, Michigan and moving to Coos Bay, Oregon when his wife became ill and then Miles himself, both of them dying within several months of one another. The Order were more or less Northwest separatists, although it wasn't ever specifically stated. I base this assertion on some years of correspondence with the Order prisoners, including David Lane himself.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #45
Jack Torrance
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Okay, I'm going to push the line here and risk getting liquidated or 'tarded for quoting the words of He Who Must Not Be Named, but his standard answer to Mr. Kramer's argument (which is by the way a common "nay-say" as we call it) is:

"1) No one else has yet come up with one single, realistic alternative plan to take back the whole country from Sea to Shining Sea. It just ain't gonna happen and anyone who doesn't understand this isn't living in the real world. But then we [the Movement] never did, did we?

2) No one is claiming that we are going to FIND a White paradise in the Northwest. The goal is to MAKE one.

3) Northwest Migration is not running away from anything. It is running TO something."
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #46
strelnikov
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Talking

I've been in Washington three months leafleting, meeting people etc.
I have an apratment in Everett but ride the train into Seattle regularly to leaflet neighborhoods, high schools and down town.
Here you should see me on SF in my rebel cap with leaflets in down town Seattle. I'm so proud.
There is also the front of the Key Bank where I was. If you click on the Key Bank photo you can see the Greek Swastikas at the top. The pictures are on post #84.
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/show...=590490&page=9

I like the idea that there are enough non-whites in the cities to highlight the problems of diversity. We are always hearing about some minority crime on the news.
Yesterday they were ridiculing a Mexicana who's excuse for having 13 cock fighting roosters was "We keep them for the eggs."
If there were NO minorities around the local sheeple wouldn't see a problem and you'd have a hard time explaining the long term evils of diversity.
It is good though to have a place in the suburbs to come back to at night.
Also the census say Washington is 75% non-hispanic white and the US if 65% non-hispanic white.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/53000.html

Also what if fun is when some middle aged white male on the street passes and can't suppress his grin when he spots my rebel/border patrol cap.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolf Facto View Post
I'm sure some areas of the Pacific Northwest are, indeed, not worth moving to for the time being (e.g., Seattle, Portland, Yakima)... but I see vast areas that are at least as good, and often much better, than the majority of other areas in the country, as it now stands... but more importantly, an area that has great potential for the homeland of a future ethnostate based upon the 14 words.

Barring that, sure then... stay put... and enjoy the slow death of White race that we've been dying for the past 50 years.



As we discussed already, the country itself is pretty much one quarter non-white... what's your point?

Compared to living amongst blacks and mestizos, no, the asians are definitely not such a bad alternative, when faced with those choices.

And if your attitude is that guys like Mark Texeira or Antonio Banderas don't count as "white", well... good luck finding that Isle Thule where only Nordics exist.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #47
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by Randolf Facto View Post
"Budger"? Is that some new urban slang I've not heard before? Your strange terms of endearment don't strengthen your arguments.
Budger - from John Wayne, like pilgrim.

Quote:
Patently false. The rationale of choosing the NW Pacific area has been covered in depth on several sites, including perhaps even this one. I'm pretty sure it's not even Covington's idea, originally. So who's the oblivious one? You seem to be blinded by your rancor of this Covington fellow, and the whole NW Imperative goes well beyond one individual.
Covington has lied about me. Yes, I don't like him. I don't trust him. I don't know anyone who does. He is scum. His books are good, so I recommend them. In this discussion, I simply point out that he has not made a persuasive case for whites moving to NW compared to moving anywhere else. No one has made a compelling case because it can't be made.

Quote:
Well, that's a laugh! A guerrilla nowadays would just as soon get turned in by a good ol' boy in NASCAR country (wanting to get back to rooting for the black bucks running them touchdowns for 'Bama or the Gators) as anywhere else... and have a whole lot more of enemies to dodge around in areas that are upwards of 20% black.
You'd get hostiles everywhere in the country, but you'd get more who suppored the racialist cause in the South than anywhere else. That's the point. Covington, in his fiction, writes as through his NW army has the support of the average northwesterner but that is a conceit. It does not reflect anything in the real world.

Quote:
Two points that have already been acknowledged, namely

a) Yes, the young elites of OR and WA are undoubtedly ultra-libs... and in which city in the country would that NOT be the case?
It would be that way everywhere, but less so in the South. The burden is on the NW proponent to make his case. It has not been done.

Quote:
b) Yes, there are enclaves in some areas that have not-insignificant portions of mexicans... exactly how much of the land area of WA, OR, ID, and portions of MT does this Yakima comprise?
Yeah, cuz the mexes really limit themselves just to Yakima. I'm giving you the example of what is probably the second largest city in Washington's interior, given you've already conceded the big coastal cities are totally illiberal, and telling you it is at least 1/3% mexican today and growing more mexicanized daily. You are the one arguing this state of affairs is somehow good for whites, somehow better than other areas.

Quote:
"And we're talking about a total population of only 6 million to begin with... a very fertile area for future White population growth, if when the time comes that something like the NW Imperative takes hold."

Again, as I said in an earlier posting... if this is the best ammunition you can produce as an argument against the NW Imperative, then (if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor) "your lances are but straws".
I've achieved my aim, you and the scumbag-liar have not. What dummy Hal doesn't even realize is that a better case could be made for Utah, which features one of only two white populations that is actually growing - and which has a historical legacy of religious racism.

Quote:
There are volumes of info, both pro and con, in re discussion of the NW Imperative on other websites... going back and forth with you guys over meager stats and immaterial complaints has become tedious.
The bottom line is there is not a single reason to believe the NW is better than any other section of the country for starting a white movement.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #48
Alex Linder
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Quote:
3) Northwest Migration is not running away from anything. It is running TO something."[/SIZE][/B]
It's not running to anything now, there's nothing there. My sole and whole objection is that you claim the NW is better than one of the other quadrants. It is not.

Whites might as well cast down their buckets and build families, networks and bank accounts right where they are as retreat to a single attackable locale.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #49
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by Jack Torrance View Post
For the record, Harold Covington did not invent the Northwest Imperative, nor has he ever made any such claim. The idea appears to have originated sometime in the 1970s with Pastor Wesley Swift and of course Pastor Richard Butler. Pastor Robert Miles was an advocate and was actually planning on selling up his property in Howell, Michigan and moving to Coos Bay, Oregon when his wife became ill and then Miles himself, both of them dying within several months of one another. The Order were more or less Northwest separatists, although it wasn't ever specifically stated. I base this assertion on some years of correspondence with the Order prisoners, including David Lane himself.
Translation: a bunch of CI idiots want the NW because that's where they happened to be located - for no other reason. CI at one point, in the mid-20th century, had a stronghold in Vancouver, B.C., from which it spread down the west coast to California. Those days are long gone. Butler was a nice man, but his idea of colocating with defectives merely made him a target for the communists.

If Whites want to move somewhere, there is plenty of open space in Texas, and straight up the great plains and into the northern midwest, from Montana through the Dakotas. Just as reasonable a place to move as the NW. It's not, ultimately, about the place, it's about the people, and single males with serious character problems are never going to start a movement.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #50
Bwana
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Overtly "racist" novels are like hens teeth.

Lets not discourage anyone for not getting it 120% right.

I enjoyed reading The Brigade, Hill Of Ravens is so slow I skipped the whole middle but his thoughts on government are worth thinking about also his ideas about family

If the war starts in Texas, I'll head there, if not I'm making my own plans here.
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Old October 20th, 2009 #51
PeterKramer
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If you use Democratic party loyalty as a proxy for anti-white political bias Washington and Oregon look bad. Both states have been won by the Democrat for the last six presidential elections. Reagan was the last Republican to win there.

If you move to either state the odds are against creating a White homeland and while you're waiting for that miracle you'll be living under totalitarian anti-white rule. Washington is 44th in freedom according to a libertarian think tank that ranked states for personal and financial liberty. You have to go to places like New York or New Jersey to have less freedom.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #52
Jack Torrance
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Okay, let's try this one again.

The so-called "liberal bias" in the Northwest has to due with the inordinate size, wealth, and influence of two major metropolitan areas, Seattle and Portland, and one or two red spots like the university town of Eugene. And yes, it is true these areas skew elections and gobble up all the money and PR, just like New York City swallows New York state.

But the Northwest countryside outside these two areas is just as red-necky and rifle-racky and country-musicky as anyone might care to find, and it is also 99% White, again with a few exceptions like Yakima due to all the agriculture there, hence masses of wetbacks.

The novels also tell us how to deal with this problem, if we ever find the physical courage to do something besides post crap on computer bulletin boards. The missing element, as always, is White character and courage. True, if we cannot find that, we will fail. But at least we have the cover of the puzzle box and so we know what the finished product is supposed to look like. No one else does.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #53
Jack Torrance
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"It's not running to anything now, there's nothing there."

Well, you see, Alex, the thing is, that's not quite true. No Northwest Republic yet, to be sure, but a definite beginning has been made. The reason you know nothing about it is that until I wandered in here and got bitten by the old internet addiction bug, everyone involved made it a point to avoid VNN like the plague, for reasons which I think are made clear by this thread.

But yes, we are at long last getting at least a taste of the beginning of the Real Thing up here, and it is exciting and intoxicating beyond belief.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #54
PeterKramer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Torrance View Post
Okay, let's try this one again.

The so-called "liberal bias" in the Northwest has to due with the inordinate size, wealth, and influence of two major metropolitan areas, Seattle and Portland, and one or two red spots like the university town of Eugene. And yes, it is true these areas skew elections and gobble up all the money and PR, just like New York City swallows New York state.
Yeah, New York is a great state if you just subtract all the blacks and jews. Let's migrate there instead. I'd rather take over Wall Street and set up my great White throne room in the Empire State Building than live in a wet, miserable, ugly place like Seattle.
 
Old October 20th, 2009 #55
Alex Linder
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But yes, we are at long last getting at least a taste of the beginning of the Real Thing up here, and it is exciting and intoxicating beyond belief.[/B][/SIZE]
Riiiiiiiight.

NW movement =




+


 
Old October 20th, 2009 #56
Alex Linder
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The most notable thing about Harold Covington is his proclivity for lying.

From his wikipedia page:

Covington extensively uses the internet to promote his neo-Nazi views and to promote his idea of a Northwest Homeland. He has at least 3 Yahoo groups; Northwest Freedom [8], Aryan Chat [9], The Truth Commission, [10] a weblog ThoughtCrime / Down With Jugears [11] and a website, The Northwest Homeland [12].

In addition he uses a dozen or more Yahoo ID's or aliases, including Susan Enders, Steve Riddle, The Aryan History Series, Erika Lang, Jack Torrance, Keith Fulton, Valkarya, L. Bradford Davis, glibneylint, northwestfront, npalongview. [13][14]
 
Old October 21st, 2009 #57
Randolf Facto
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Budger - from John Wayne, like pilgrim.
I'm a pretty big John Wayne fan, but don't recall him saying "Budger" in any film. Refresh my memory.

Edit: Ah, I see it comes from Cahill, US Marshal... one of the films I missed... but it's not used as a general moniker, a la "pilgrim"... it's the nickname of one of his younger sons.

Quote:
Covington has lied about me. Yes, I don't like him. I don't trust him. I don't know anyone who does. He is scum. His books are good, so I recommend them. In this discussion, I simply point out that he has not made a persuasive case for whites moving to NW compared to moving anywhere else. No one has made a compelling case because it can't be made.
Your issues with this Covington chap aside, saying the case can't be made is disingenuous. Especially since you yourself start mentioning alternatives that suffer from the same, or greater, disadvantages that you mention about the NW Pacific area. You mention Texas? There's a joke, it's already pretty much in the hands of Atzlan, as is most of California. The Dakotas? Weren't you the one complaining about weather and lack of population? (And of course, any country with sense would not want to be land-locked, without open water ports, but that's addenda for future discussions).

Quote:
You'd get hostiles everywhere in the country, but you'd get more who suppored the racialist cause in the South than anywhere else. That's the point. Covington, in his fiction, writes as through his NW army has the support of the average northwesterner but that is a conceit. It does not reflect anything in the real world.
Need I remind you yet again about what I and others have already said? Those novels are futuristic, and merely because there is no favorable current political climate in that (and for that matter, every other) area in no way means things can't change, and quickly, once conditions worsen (as we all believe they will) and the proverbial balloon goes up.

Quote:
I've achieved my aim, you and the scumbag-liar have not. What dummy Hal doesn't even realize is that a better case could be made for Utah, which features one of only two white populations that is actually growing - and which has a historical legacy of religious racism.
You've achieved your aim, eh? Perhaps to yourself... and one or two others that focus more on their rancor for the author and his allegedly shady past, as opposed to what the novels are demonstrating.

As far as anyone being dumb for not mentioning Utah, well... notice how close Utah is to the area under discussion? Parts of MT and WY and Canada are also in the possible mix as future events unfold... at best, future additions, at worst, a nice buffer zone of semi-sympathetic lands. A myopic view on WA and OR alone, or even only the current borders of the three states in the proposal, is not seeing the forest for the trees... as the character Spock once said: "You must learn to think in three dimensions."

Quote:
The bottom line is there is not a single reason to believe the NW is better than any other section of the country for starting a white movement.
It's not merely a question of "starting a white movement"... it's a question of finding an area which will serve for fruition of the 14 words... being spread out in pockets across the US, well... the past 50 years have shown where that's getting us, a slow death.

History shows that most folks will remain apolitical and merely want to raise their families in peace and under the umbrella of White culture... we don't need a majority of people to take up arms... we just need them to, well... act White!

So do yourself a favor, if only for intellectual credibility... think of the NW Imperative not as how that area currently stands, rather... on what it could be, if enough of the right kind of people decide to "come Home" because the majority of the rest of the country is beyond redemption.

In closing, I must say, I'm less than impressed with your attitude towards other White folk that are trying to do something/anything in this struggle against ZOG... individual grudges aside, your mean-spirited replies and dismissive expressions like "CI Idiots" don't serve you in good stead as a proponent for our cause.

And judging by some of the threads and posts on this board of yours, I wouldn't be throwing stones about malcontents, idiots, and/or "single white male" losers... although, in your role as admin, I do defer to your superior experience with those types.

On a side note, the time-out on being logged in when one is trying to compose longer messages is very annoying. Any way that the board admin can fix that?
 
Old October 21st, 2009 #58
Randolf Facto
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Originally Posted by PeterKramer View Post
Yeah, New York is a great state if you just subtract all the blacks and jews. Let's migrate there instead. I'd rather take over Wall Street and set up my great White throne room in the Empire State Building than live in a wet, miserable, ugly place like Seattle.
You know, you don't HAVE to live in Seattle... the NW Imperative has some other alternatives.

Perhaps Boise might be more to your liking?

If not, good luck on that NYC thing.

Quote:
The most notable thing about Harold Covington is his proclivity for lying.

From his wikipedia page:
Actually, as much as I never intended to either praise or bury the author in this thread, for the sake of fairness, I would say the most notable thing about the man is his literary output... I don't see too many other White-centric writers putting out anything equal to the NW tetralogy.

And if you're going to start quoting wikipedia authors, who apparently have a Conan-sized axe to grind, concerning a man's character, well... you've already lost the audience.
 
Old October 21st, 2009 #59
Jack Torrance
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Covington was interviewed last night on the Voice of Reason radio show by Dr. Tom Sunic on the Northwest novels.


http://reasonradionetwork.com/?page_id=55
 
Old October 21st, 2009 #60
Randolf Facto
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Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
Overtly "racist" novels are like hens teeth.

Lets not discourage anyone for not getting it 120% right.
Amen, brother... amen.
 
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