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Old July 12th, 2014 #1
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Post Pope says 'Holocaust' denial is ‘madness’


June 13 2014 at 06:35pm

By Philip Pullella

REUTERS

Pope Francis waves after leading his weekly general audience at St. Peter's Square at the Vatican. REUTERS/Giampiero Sposito

Vatican City - Pope Francis has strongly defended his wartime predecessor Pius XII against accusations he turned a blind eye to the Holocaust, saying the opening of Vatican archives will shed light on the controversy.

In an interview published on Friday in the Spanish newspaper La Vanguardia, Francis condemned anti-Semitism, saying it was a “continuing” problem that was more prevalent in right-wing parties in Europe, and called Holocaust denial “madness”.

He also repeated that he did not rule out resigning as pope like his predecessor Benedict XVI if he felt he could no longer rule the 1.2 billion member Roman Catholic Church, saying that he would ask God for guidance “when the time comes”.

In his most comprehensive remarks to date on the controversy surrounding Pius, Francis confirmed that he intended to open up the Vatican archives for the wartime period but he did not say when that would happen.

“They will shed a lot of light,” he said.

Some Jews have accused Pius, who ruled from 1939 to 1958, of turning a blind eye to the Holocaust. The controversy has put a strain on Catholic-Jewish relations for decades.

The Vatican says Pius worked behind the scenes to save thousands of Jews and did not speak out more forcefully for fear that his words could have led to more deaths of both Jews and Christians at the hands of the Nazis.

“I don't want to say that Pius XII did not make any mistakes - I myself make many - but he has to be seen in the context of that era. For example, was it better for him not to speak out so that more Jews were not killed, or that he speak out?” he said.

Francis, the first non-European pope in 1,300 years, said that during the war his predecessor was seen as “a great defender of Jews”, and that his critics “have dumped all kinds of things on poor Pius XII”.

He said Pius ordered the Church to hide many Jews in the convents of Rome and other Italian cities, that he sheltered Jews in the papal summer residence south of Rome and that 42 children of Jews and other refugees were born in his apartments there.

He said he sometimes “breaks out in an existential rash” when “everyone takes it out against the Church and Pius XII” and “forgets” the responsibility of the great wartime powers.

“Did you know that they knew perfectly the train network the Nazis used to take the Jews to concentration camps? They had photos. But they didn't bomb the train tracks. Why? It would be good if we could talk a little about everything,” he said.

Last month Francis visited the Yad Vashem memorial to Holocaust victims in Jerusalem. The Yad Vashem's website, addressing the issue of the allies activity during the war, says: “In practice, no military initiatives were taken to prevent or delay the extermination.”

Jewish groups have asked Francis and his predecessors to freeze the process that could lead to sainthood for Pius until the all the World War Two era archives are opened to historians, saying Catholic-Jewish relations could be harmed if the process moved ahead.

Speaking to reporters on the plane returning from Jerusalem last month, Francis said the sainthood cause for Pius was stalled because he had not been credited with performing a miracle, which Church rules require, suggesting it was not stalled because of any outside pressure.

read full article at source: http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/pope...ness-1.1703469
 
Old July 13th, 2014 #2
Hellenic Pagan
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Hellenic cultural genocide by Christianity and Byzantium 1/2


Hellenic cultural genocide by Christianity and Byzantium 2/2

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Old July 13th, 2014 #3
Tom Adair
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What I get out of all this is that there is a vacuum in leadership. But that vacuum extends to every walk of life anymore. Not just clergy. No leader wants to attempt to tell anyone who is sticking their nose into their business to get the hell away. That's what this pope, or any other pope should tell the Jews. Believe what you want. It makes no difference to me.
 
Old July 13th, 2014 #4
jaekel
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This pope sux jew dik.
Wonder what they have on him?
He started out pretty good, then did a complete 180.
 
Old July 13th, 2014 #5
Dave from New York
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It sounds like the pope is suffering from a severe case of christianity.
 
Old July 13th, 2014 #6
Karl Radl
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The Pope isn't a historian...

So why does what he say matter..?
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Old July 13th, 2014 #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaekel View Post
This pope sux jew dik.
Wonder what they have on him?
He started out pretty good, then did a complete 180.
Supporting queers, redistribution of wealth and the nigger invasion of Europe was "starting out well"?
 
Old July 13th, 2014 #8
T.Garrett
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This robed clown is in denial regarding the madness going on in Gaza right now against helpless civilians.

Gradual genocide by jew ...they call it the 'peace process'

Who else can get a free pass to bomb hospitals, rehabilitation centers and schools by the world media but his beloved jews.
 
Old July 13th, 2014 #9
Gerry Fable
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I have washed my hands with all this holocaust business....

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Old July 14th, 2014 #10
Englisc
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The Pope may not be a historian, but to many people his opinion atleast counts for something and will further add to the stigmatization of Revisionism in society.
 
Old July 14th, 2014 #11
Karl Radl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Englisc View Post
The Pope may not be a historian, but to many people his opinion atleast counts for something and will further add to the stigmatization of Revisionism in society.
So? Popes have already condemned it, 'racism' and any opposition to the jews (a-la Leon Degrelle's famous open letter).

For example the bull against anti-Semitism (I forget the name) in 1928 (I think it was in the 1920s anyway), which didn't stop Catholics supporting the Third Reich and anti-jewish measures made on the basis of anti-Semitism (as opposed to anti-Judaism which the Catholic Church is historically a supporter).

Also I rather suspect quite a lot of Catholics will simply ignore this (as the Pope isn't speaking ex cathedra thus his 'opinions' are his own not 'the Church's'). Indeed I asked a couple of Catholics of my acquaintance that I bumped into earlier and they were simply unaware the Pope had said this and weren't interested in the issue anyway.

It isn't going to 'change minds' only provide a bit more ammo for the otherwise to claim that 'holocaust denial' is contrary to official Church teaching.
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Old July 14th, 2014 #12
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Funny, I say the same thing about Catholicism.
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Old July 14th, 2014 #13
Englisc
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I didn't say that what he said is going to change anyone's minds. I don't imagine a committed revisionist of Catholic religion changing to belief in a NS genocide of Jews just because the Pope said something that is not infallible within Catholic belief.

But the Pope is head of a 1.2 billion strong religion and is a major world personality. Whatever he says matters, certainly matters a hell of a lot more than anything I or probably anyone else on this forum will ever say in our lives.
 
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