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August 26th, 2004 | #21 |
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Now I believe that either Hechler and Koch, or Gloch, and even maybe both, are owned by British bods, whatever that means. To be British in the UK means today, you are a 'wog'. So whether or not those gun companies are owned by white British people, I do not know.
Nevertheless, I find that most new weapons are inaccurate. The ethos nowadays seems to be to wound people, rather than kill. Now that would be fine in a military situation. But not in a 'one to one' defensive scenario. Last edited by heaven above; August 28th, 2004 at 10:01 PM. |
August 26th, 2004 | #22 | |
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Hechler and Koch is currently owned by three Germans and one Brit who is not a Paki or East Indian. Glock is Austrian owned, Gaston Glock probably still has most shares I'd imagine as that company's been around longer than the Glock 17 pistol which came out in the early 80's. Now Khar Firearms & Thompson Auto-Ordinance are owned by Reverend Sun Yung Moon's son, they are Moonie companies which contribute thousands if not hundreds of thousands to the Republican party in the US. |
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August 26th, 2004 | #23 | |
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I dont care for shotguns accept with a rifled slug load because the pellets they scatter all around, and will not be appreciated by pets, small children, etc, not to mention the property damage. The traditional 22 has a terrible tendency to richochet and very little stopping power. But get your BB with a 13 round magazine of hollow points, and maby a few extra clips, and you will be ready nto send any pack of Nigger or Spic home invaders to Satan, where they belong Yeah, its pricey, but if there is anything you dony want to buy based on price its your shooting irons diablo |
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August 26th, 2004 | #24 | |
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The AK 47 is a damned cheap weapon to produce, but effective. |
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August 27th, 2004 | #25 |
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August 27th, 2004 | #26 |
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In reality there is no best side arm. Different situations call for different weapons. In the city you would want to carry a small weapon because of over penetration. In the country you would want to carry a revolver because they handle shot-shells good (a must for snakes).
Things to consider Gender Hand Size Immediate Need (dogs, people, gangs ect) Season (Thicker clothes call for larger weapons) How well the weapon conceals (I wear mine in a holster on my belt so this doesn’t matter to those in cities with strict gun laws the smaller the better) Actual strength (if you are not a brute you can’t handle a large weapon) Financial abilities Location (home or on the street) Local and state laws Whether or not you have a CCW (Concealed Carry Weapons Permit) All of these things are important factors View the web-site below and it will give you a list of the most popular guns and their prices, choose the one that suits your hands, and personal needs. http://www.horstheld.com/0-factory.htm
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August 27th, 2004 | #27 | |
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Obviously hollowpoint is better than roundball for self defense, in any caliber. Here is why. Penetration and knockdown power are inversely proportional. Penetration is gained when the shape of the projectile is streamline and thus disperses LITTLE energy throughout the target, like a "corelokt" hunting rifle bullet. Knockdown power is gained when a projectile mushrooms and disintegrates thus dispersing MUCH energy throughout the target. But a mushrooming disintegrating projectile does NOT penetrate well. What's more is that there are few rounds commercially available in 7.62 Kurz that are hollowpoint. Maybe Fiocchi. Most ammo is surplus roundball. I have a CZ 52 in this caliber which has a heavy duty cam locking slide mechanism, and thus can take the very hot 7.62 Czech. But .30 caliber is not a good self defense round regardless of how fast. If I have to be restricted to a .38 cal I would prefer a .357 round above all others, 125 gr JHP, but 9mm is tolerable. I think the best performers are said to be 124 gr JHP. Last edited by Antiochus Epiphanes; August 27th, 2004 at 01:58 PM. |
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August 27th, 2004 | #28 | |
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Last edited by Antiochus Epiphanes; August 27th, 2004 at 02:00 PM. |
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August 27th, 2004 | #29 | |
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August 27th, 2004 | #30 | |
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Col Cooper also says the best way to carry his 45 is with the hammer back and the safety on, would you carry a gun that way? While that is how I carry a 10mm (on the 45 frame) not very many people would take that advice. Col Cooper while being the expert, is not above being wrong. I have a tape where he broke his #1 rule by picking a gun up and dry firing it without checking to see if it was loaded. He is an old timer that is a hard-core traditionalist. He grew up with the 45 acp and rejects any change. I don’t know how you feel about guns, or how many you have shot so you may have had different experiences than I have had. But trust me when I say there is absolutely no comparison between the 45 and 10 mm. I have owned both and shot both and have no hard feelings against either, but the 45 didn’t have half the penetration of the 10 mm.
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August 27th, 2004 | #31 |
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LOL Sean I have been around the block or two, from when my dad taught me to shoot a 22 to summer camp in boy scouts spending half the day at the range to when he taught me to shoot a shotgun to the day I turned 21 and went out and bought a glock; between then and now I have done countless firearms educational/ participatory events, including gun shows, indoor ranges, outdoor ranges, machine gun shoots, plink-fests, DCM clinics, hi-powered rifle matches, gun club bullshit and IDPA and IPSC. In fact this weekend I am doing my second 3 gun match of the year. I, and every one of the fifty odd fellows who will show up, will most likely be shooting .45s. Maybe somebody will bring a glock 9 or maybe a few oldtimers will bring wheelguns although they usually shoot 45 too. Maybe somebody will bring a 40. But 90% will be .45. .45 is the shit, hands down.
As for cockd n locked, I dont carry that way no. But I am not a professional shootist nor am I in a walk of life nor a job that tolerates open carry of a firearm and you really cant hardly conceal a 45 cockd n lockd anyways. But if I were a pro, carrying as part of my work, and cocked and locked was permitted, sure, hell yes I'd carry that way. The reason that is bad and cops are not allowed to carry that way anymore is that they are not pros, they are barely competent with firearms in the usual case, and when they draw they like all other untrained persons, naturally put their finger in the trigger guard. If you are trained to use handguns properly, one indexes the finger until the target is acquired and then as the front sight pictures comes into focus the finger enters the trigger guard and squeezes the trigger for a surpise break. When you're done -- with whatever-- and you want to make safe, the finger is immediately taken out of the trigger guard and reindexed as being holstered or unloaded. But if you dont do this, you're liable to have an accidental discharge with a single action arm like the 1911. That is why the Germans developed the P-38 and why all cops now are required to carry DA/SA setups or glocks which are like DAO. 1911 is still the best. Now training yourself to do that with handguns requires practice, and upkeep practice too. Most people dont have the time or motivation including cops. Usually it is only amateur shooters who put the time in, or those few LE or milpers that actually are called on to shoot rather than shuffle papers or push buttons. Cooper was the rare combination of enthusiast and professional shootist and person with abundant real life experience shooting and being shot at by bad guys to be aptly called the "gunner's guru" and I would not second guess him when it comes to effectiveness of particular rounds. Last edited by Antiochus Epiphanes; August 27th, 2004 at 04:10 PM. |
August 27th, 2004 | #32 |
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Cz
I just picked one of these up last year, a Cz 75 Compact. Really a nice little well designed gun, I'm surprised they're not more popular.
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I don’t know your age and I am not being smart aleck but I take it that you are some years older than I am by your weapons conversation.
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August 28th, 2004 | #34 |
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From my military experience the .45 is a little too big. I have fired the .45 Webley revolver, an officers side arm. The Browning 9mm was OK and a fair clip of rounds in there.
But not having been an officer my personal weapon was either the 9mm smg or the old 7.62 SLR a 'real mans' weapon. We used to come off the ranges with bruises on our shoulders. The AR15 was like a toy gun compared to the SLR. The accuracy of the AR15 was bloody awful too, the foresight was as big as your thumb, and all plasticky. Now I haven't fired the M60, but handled it, and it looks the business. |
August 30th, 2004 | #35 | |||
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The problem with the DA-SA arrangement is the difference in trigger pull. Fast instinctive reactions demand a uniform trigger pull. That is the problem with the P-38 and the CZ series for that matter and all the rest. For example I shot this weekend with a geezer shooting a revolver with a bobbed hammer. He only shoots DA. DAO is what a handgun set up like that is called. A glock is another innovation because it is essentially DAO. A nine or ten pound pull each stroke. So it's always the same. SW copied Glock and introduced a whole range of DAO handguns including the Sigma which nakedly copied Glock in many other ways. SW are dickheads IMO. Glock is also simpler than SW knockoffs because it lacks the external safety, other than on the trigger itself, a very odd innovation. Quote:
Reloaders? Every 45 shooting geezer I know is a reloader. Nobody reloads 9s. WTF is a gel shooter? I dont shoot gel I should targets. LOL You want to talk about geezers, half the 50 or so guys at the match this weekend were 45 or older. They dont like the 1911-45 setup because they are old farts they like 45s because they hit bad guys and knock them down. They dont perforate or bounce off. They hit and hit hard, I hear getting nailed with a 45 HP is like getting kicked in the chest by a fucking mule or a goddamned flying ashtray. They use 1911s for a ton of reasons and not just because ole fart Coop says so. Anyways, I'm done explaining this. btw, I used a glock because my 1911 has a broken mag catch. LOL The glock has every automatic design beaten in one very important dimension: reliability. Did say something about SW again? Oh yeah, they're the fuckwads who publically approved of gun control legislation a couple years ago. yeah, that's a great outfit. |
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August 30th, 2004 | #36 | |
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August 30th, 2004 | #37 | |
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same as it ever was! |
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August 30th, 2004 | #38 | |
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Plinking at paper doesn’t show force or damage or even velocity. Come on AE surely you know more about guns than this.
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August 31st, 2004 | #39 | |
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"With the exceptions of hits to the brain or upper spinal cord, the concept of reliable and reproducible immediate incapacitation of the human target by gunshot wounds to the torso is a myth. The human target is a complex and durable one. A wide variety of psychological, physical, and physiological factors exist, all of them pertinent to the probability of incapacitation. "Physiologically, a determined adversary can be stopped reliably and immediately only by a shot that disrupts the brain or upper spinal cord. Failing a hit to the central nervous system, massive bleeding from holes in the heart or major blood vessels of the torso causing circulatory collapse is the only other way to force incapacitation upon an adversary, and this takes time. For example, there is sufficient oxygen within the brain to support full, voluntary action for 10-15 seconds after the heart has been destroyed." That being said, in a handgun, I'll take a .45 model 1911 anyday. Glock in a .45 cal would be my second choice only since I can't carry around of of these! Remington 870 Marine Magnum 12ga 23/4 - 3 inch shells. |
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August 31st, 2004 | #40 |
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The DA-SA isn't so much an issue for CZ series as they can also be carried "cocked and locked".
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