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Old December 11th, 2012 #21
Ian
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Originally Posted by N.M. Valdez View Post
I'm not sure what's unclear about Orwell's statement that in Barcelona, "Practically every building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red flags and with the red and black flag of the Anarchists."

Abel Paz wrote of Barcelona in Durruti: The People Armed that, "Industry is in the hands of the workers and all the production centers conspicuously fly the red and black flags as well as inscriptions announcing that they have really become collectives. The revolution seems to be universal."

Here's a direct link to Beevor's account that I already quoted from so that you can read it for yourself: "The collectives in republican Spain were not like the state collectives of the Soviet Union. They were based on the joint ownership and management of the land or factory. The regions most affected were Catalonia and Aragon, where about 70 percent of the workforce was involved. "

There's an entire e-book called The Anarchist Collectives that you can read if you want to know more accurate information about this social revolution and less inaccurate stereotypes, and nonsense like confusing Chinese-style Maoism with anarchism.
The Orwell quote describes both Communist and Anarchist flags being flown.

The books about the Spanish civil war have been biased for decades. Academia is dominated by self-satisfied and self-supporting leftists. They are lauded as great experts, such as Professor Paul Preston of the London School of Economics.

The Spanish Nationalists under the leadership of Francisco Franco engaged and defeated the political left, thus saving Spain according to their ideas. Academia doesn't give them coverage, not that I've seen in English.
 
Old January 23rd, 2013 #22
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Default Catalan parliament approves declaration of state sovereignty

Quote:
The parliament of Spain’s northeastern region of Catalonia has approved a declaration of the region’s sovereignty as a major step towards its independence from Spain.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01...s-sovereignty/
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Old April 6th, 2013 #23
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From a few days ago


Quote:
Madrid, Catalonia play down secret talks on independence

The Spanish prime minister and Catalonia's regional leader met secretly last week to discuss improving Catalonia's fiscal deal with Madrid in exchange for easing off its independence bid.

By Andrés Cala | Christian Science Monitor – Wed, Apr 3, 2013

Spain’s central government and its secessionist-minded economic motor Catalonia hardened their positions Wednesday after a discreet attempt to renegotiate the region's fiscal deal with Madrid went nowhere.

It emerged last week that Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy and Catalonian regional leader Artur Mas recently met to discuss the possibility of restructuring Catalonia's fiscal pact with Madrid – enabling the state to send less of its GDP to the federal government and ease its own recession woes – in exchange for the state dropping its plans to pursue a referendum on Catalonian independence.

RECOMMENDED: Briefing: Catalonia's bid to breakaway from Spain

But today, speaking at separate events, both men played down the possibility in comments that appeared to be directed to their respective power bases and to preempt internal divisions in their support.

RAJOY FOCUSED ON ECONOMY

Mr. Rajoy, addressing leaders of his Popular Party (PP), showed no signs of budging on Catalonia’s demand for a significant renegotiation of its fiscal relation to the central government. He also asked for more loyalty from his party when it comes to efforts to negotiate a deal with regional governments, in the clearest sign yet that the government is under intense pressure from internal dissent.

Rajoy, who was addressing PP barons, demanded “internal cohesion and unity,” which described that as core to his party’s identity, especially when it comes to letting the government negotiate with other regions. That was a clear reference to Catalonia’s secessionist challenge and the growing public criticism of PP hawks of what they perceive as weakness from Rajoy.

“We will continue listening to everyone, those in my party and those outside, because that is my duty, even if some appear not to understand that,” Rajoy said.

Rajoy didn’t specifically mention Catalonia, but he reiterated he is willing to talk about renegotiating fiscal conditions with the largely autonomous regional governments. He warned, however, that the priority is Spain’s broader economic crisis.

Catalonia’s economy is the size of Portugal’s, but markets have long shut it out as its deficit increases. In 2012, the deficit was equal to nearly 2 percent of its gross domestic product. The central government has bailed out Catalonia several times.

MAS COMMITTED TO INDEPENDENCE REFERENDUM

Mr. Mas, during a review of the first 100 days of his current administration, reaffirmed the commitment of his party, CiU, to the current pro-independence coalition. Though he raised doubts about the coalition's survival – while they are both pro-independence, CiU and its coalition partner, the radical left ERC, differ on their economic policies – he insisted his government will not alter its plan to seek a referendum on seceding.

In his speech Mas tied the region’s economic policies – including a new fiscal pact with Madrid – to pursuing the Catalonian parliament-approved path toward a referendum. Mas said talks with the central government could lead to a more flexible deficit terms that require the Catalonian government to cut an additional 4 billion in spending, although he suggested he couldn’t trust the government to keep its word.

“We talked about the [referendum] but there is no other agreement other than to keep talking,” said Mas during his address to the Catalonian parliament, in reference to his secret meeting last week with Rajoy.

In effect, Mas is betting his political survival on preserving his pro-independence coalition long enough to stabilize the region’s economy, or else face the third regional elections in less than two years amid his government's growing unpopularity and without the unifying nationality issue.

Mas said his government’s coalition was based on defending Catalonia’s right to hold a referendum, with or without Madrid’s permission. But his government is growing weak as a result of the region’s dire economic shape, its unsustainable fiscal deficit, and Spain’s most severe austerity measures. The ERC has said it will not necessarily support his economic policies.

“Nobody knows what will happen. I want this government to last the four years it’s supposed to. But things could change on short notice,” Mas said.
http://news.yahoo.com/madrid-catalon...172056266.html
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Old April 6th, 2013 #24
N.M. Valdez
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
The Orwell quote describes both Communist and Anarchist flags being flown.
Anarchist influence was more prevalent, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
The books about the Spanish civil war have been biased for decades. Academia is dominated by self-satisfied and self-supporting leftists.
Do you have any actual response to the content other than attacks on the authors?
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I don't know what the truth is, and have said as much.
 
Old April 6th, 2013 #25
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Originally Posted by Jordan Appleyard View Post
Interesting Joe. Hunter Wallace of Occidental Dissent and his commentators said Catalan's succession broke free of the Jewish stranglehold and stands like a knight against the impending globalism. Wallace seemed delibrately leaving out the fact that this seccession movement as, Serbian mentioned, is very EU and liberal, while OD is the place supposedly for the relentless domination of antebellum yore that Southern slavery defined of white supremacy.
I wonder if Hunter and the crew over at OD are still jerking it over Catalonia. I mean seriously
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Old January 30th, 2014 #26
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Default Any perceived political association with Serbs is still poison

These pathetic Catalans bought into the decades repeated lie that the Bosnian Serb Republic is somehow non inclusive racist and built on genocide. They seek to distance themselves from possible comparisons (recently made by Dodik) by making it clear that their independence movement is completely different as it's built on tolerance democracy and a pro EU outlook.



Quote:
30 Jan 14

Catalans Spurn Links with Bosnian Serbs


Independence-seeking Catalans in Spain have told the Bosnian Serb leader their quests are very different.

Elvira M. Jukic

BIRN
Sarajevo



The National Catalan Assembly has distanced itself from Milorad Dodik, the President of Repulika Srpska, who said last November that the mainly Serbian entity looked to Scotland and Catalonia as models for gaining independence.

“The National Catalan Assembly, the main popular Catalan movement promoting the independence of Catalonia, which is independent of any political party ... would like to distance itself from his opinions,” a press release on January 28 said.

The institution referred to Dodik's statement of November 8 when he said that Republika Srpska kept in mind a possible referendum on independence.

“That will always be an option, be sure of that,” Dodik said. “One day that will fall like a pear in our hands just as, say, Scotland or Catalonia will also do. We are waiting for examples in Europe of how to do this.”

But the Catalan Assembly said that it did not wish to be seen as an example for Republika Srpska to follow.

“Catalonia aims to build a new and inclusive independent state, where there is a place for everyone regardless of their origin or nationality,” it said. um yeah and that's exactly how it is in RS, unfortunately

“Our project is based on tolerance and respect for the rights of minorities, and on European integration. For these reasons we consider that Catalonia is in no way an example for the political projects advocated by Dodik and his party.”
these idiots don't even know what they are talking about. Dodik and his party are not even nationalists, many even view them as traitors

Dodik's Alliance of Independent Social Democrats, SNSD, is the ruling party in Republika Srpska.

The Scottish nationalists, SNP, have not reacted to Dodik's words but are also unlikely to want to be seen as a model for the Republika Srpska.

A left-leaning political force, the SNP has been careful to avoid charges of being anti-English, or hostile to the monarchy, which it says it wants to keep, along with the UK currency.
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Last edited by Serbian; January 30th, 2014 at 08:45 PM.
 
Old February 3rd, 2014 #27
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Catalan leader says Spain cannot block independence vote:

report

MADRID Sun Feb 2, 2014 7:24am EST


Catalonia's President Artur Mas waves to supporters after voting in the regional parliament to send a petition for referendum to the national parliament, in Barcelona, January 16, 2014.


(Reuters) - Spain cannot block a non-binding vote on Catalan independence that could become the basis for negotiations on Catalonia's future, the president of the northeastern region said in an interview published on Sunday.

"If I call a consultation, not to declare the independence of Catalonia nor to break with the Spanish state, but to know the opinion of the citizens of this country, a knee-jerk anti-democratic response from Spain would be pretty bad and disgraceful in the view of the entire world," Artur Mas told La Vanguardia, Catalonia's leading newspaper.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has pledged to go to the Constitutional Tribunal to block any Catalan attempts to hold a referendum, arguing sovereignty is a matter for all of Spain to decide, but Mas said there was another possible approach.

"It is what I call the solution tolerated by the central government. They let us hold the consultation, they don't get involved, and afterwards we go to Madrid to negotiate," he said.

Over the past three years the independence movement in Catalonia has gained force, with roughly half of Catalans saying they want independence from Spain and a much bigger majority saying they should have the right to decide.

Catalonia, which has its own language, has significant self-governing powers. But economic doldrums, public spending cuts and perceptions of unfair taxes and the concentration of power in Madrid have fed breakaway fever.

The independence movement has become a major headache for Rajoy, who is struggling to pull Spain out of six years of economic stagnation and unemployment of 26 percent.

"The unity of all Spaniards is what makes us great, and what the great majority of Spaniards want," Rajoy said on Sunday. "Those who don't agree with that must respect that desire, and respect the law."

THREE POSSIBLE STEPS

Mas, who only became a supporter of independence four years ago, set out a three-step process for Catalonia.

The first step of the process, taken in January, was to ask Spanish parliament to allow Catalonia to hold a referendum. Parliament, dominated by the ruling conservative People's Party, is expected to turn down that initiative.

The second step, Mas said, will be to hold a consultation without the express permission of the national parliament. He said the consultation would be legal under Catalonia's autonomy statute, which defines the region's powers.

The Catalan government has already set a date of November 9 for a referendum - two months after an independence vote in Scotland - and has decided on a two-question formula: Do you want Catalonia to become a state? If your answer is yes, do you want this state to be independent?

If the central government blocked a non-binding consultation, Mas set out a third step, which he said was not ideal, which would be to use the next election in Catalonia, which must be held by 2016, as a proxy vote on independence.

Mas is not expected to rush to call early elections because his Convergence and Union political alliance, known as CiU, has lost ground in the polls, while a more radical pro-independence party, the Catalan Republican Left, or ERC, would probably win a large chunk of seats in the regional legislature.

The Catalan president told La Vanguardia that he and members of his government had been engaged in informal talks with Rajoy's government through December to try to find a way past the deadlock over the consultation, but that there were not any talks now.

Rajoy has resisted pressure to engage with Mas and seek a political solution to the crisis.

The European Union has said that Catalonia would have to re-apply to join the bloc if it broke away from Spain, a difficult road because Spain could thwart the necessary consensus to accept a new member.

But Mas said Europe would have to respect a peaceful, democratic independence drive by Catalonia.

(Reporting by Fiona Ortiz; Editing by Teresa Larraz and Mike Collett-White)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A1107M20140202
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Old February 26th, 2014 #28
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Spanish PM dismisses Catalonia independence bid


Wednesday Feb 26,


Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has described as illegal a referendum on Catalonia’s independence planned for November 9.

Speaking to the country’s parliament at his annual state of the nation debate, the premier said, "This referendum can't take place, it is not legal."

He told lawmakers that it’s the entire nation who must decide about the future of the country.


"It is the entire Spanish people who have the capacity to decide what Spain is. No one can unilaterally deprive the entire Spanish people of the right to decide on their future," Rajoy added.


He made the remarks in response to Catalan lawmakers’ demand, who voted last month to hold a referendum on declaring independence from Spain.

The Catalan ruling coalition led by political chief, Artur Mas, and a majority of other parties in the northeastern Spanish region have called for a referendum on November 9 this year.

The vote would determine whether the territory should become an independent state and would ask two questions: "Do you think that Catalonia should be a State, yes or no?" and "If yes, do you want that State to be independent, yes or no?"

A recent poll in Catalonia has shown that many of the Catalan people back independence from Madrid, and say that they are fed-up with several years of recession in Spain among other issues.

However, the bid for an independence referendum appears doomed from the very beginning since Spain’s two largest national parties, the ruling conservative Popular Party and the main opposition Socialist Party are opposed to it.

Last week, Spain's national parliament overwhelmingly approved a motion rejecting the referendum.


http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/02...secession-bid/
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Old April 1st, 2015 #29
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Catalan nationalists sign 'road map' to secede from Spain in 2017

Published time: April 01, 2015 20:44 Get short URL

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Several nationalist parties and associations in Spain's Catalonia region have signed an agreement on what they call "a road map" to secession. They aim to implement the plan by 2017, if the coalition wins regional parliamentary elections in September.

The Catalan nationalist party, Democratic Convergence of Catalonia (CDC) and the left wing Republican Left of Catalonia (ERC), as well as several associations have agreed to work on a new constitution and establish institutions to form the basis of a future state, should the parties win the election on September 27.
http://rt.com/news/246025-catalonia-...lists-roadmap/
 
Old October 18th, 2017 #30
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Default Israel would be first to recognize Catalonia secession: Analyst

Given the fact that Israelis have claimed that Catalonia must belong to the Catalan people, the Tel Aviv regime seems to be the first regime to recognize Catalonia’s independence, says a geopolitical analyst.

“The first [regime] in the world most likely that would recognize a free Catalonia is ... Israel,” because there has been a long-time cooperation between Catalonia and Israel and even the Catalan “local police are trained in Israel by the [Israeli spying service] Mossad,” Manuel Galiana Ros told Press TV on Wednesday.

Israeli newspaper Haaretz publicly indicated that “Catalonia must be for the Catalonians,” the geopolitical analyst and writer said.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has warned the regional president of Catalonia to “act sensibly” and renounce his push for a breakup with Madrid, following a banned referendum held on October 1.

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/1...endence-Israel
 
Old October 18th, 2017 #31
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Given the fact that Israelis have claimed that Catalonia must belong to the Catalan people, the Tel Aviv regime seems to be the first regime to recognize Catalonia’s independence, says a geopolitical analyst.

“The first [regime] in the world most likely that would recognize a free Catalonia is ... Israel,” because there has been a long-time cooperation between Catalonia and Israel and even the Catalan “local police are trained in Israel by the [Israeli spying service] Mossad,” Manuel Galiana Ros told Press TV on Wednesday.

Israeli newspaper Haaretz publicly indicated that “Catalonia must be for the Catalonians,” the geopolitical analyst and writer said.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has warned the regional president of Catalonia to “act sensibly” and renounce his push for a breakup with Madrid, following a banned referendum held on October 1.

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/1...endence-Israel
Well, there you go. Another 'color revolution' with Mossad directing the show, probably the CIA, too. And this time in a NATO country.
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Old October 18th, 2017 #32
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The EU representatives are siding with Rajoy and said that dividing Spain will be a bigger blow to the EU than Brexit.
Why are the zionists in Israel against the EU? Is it because the EU is too muslim friendly?
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Old October 18th, 2017 #33
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Well, there you go. Another 'color revolution' with Mossad directing the show, probably the CIA, too. And this time in a NATO country.
Maybe it could be renamed The Western Israeli Coastline with Cartagena as the capital. (invader processing point)
 
Old October 18th, 2017 #34
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Default Hours away from knowing what will happen

Different possibilities on the process, how Art. 155 would be implemented, or whether it would be at all:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41675105

"..What happens if Mr Puigdemont stands firm?

If Mr Rajoy decides that his government should intervene, he is expected to call a special cabinet meeting to discuss what specific measures should be taken.
Mr Rajoy is due to attend an EU summit in Brussels on Thursday afternoon. It is possible a cabinet meeting could be called before he goes or postponed until Friday.
It would be Spain's Senate, controlled by Mr Rajoy's conservative Popular Party (PP) and its allies, that would launch the transfer of powers from Catalonia to Madrid under Article 155 of the constitution.
It is thought the measures taken could range from taking control of the regional police and finances to calling a snap election. The timetable for this process is imprecise..."

"..Mr Puigdemont appears to have one more option.
If he calls elections in the region himself, Madrid would not invoke Article 155, Catalonia Radio journalist Albert Calatrava says, citing Spanish government sources.
But the foreign affairs chief for Catalonia's regional government, Raul Romeva, said on Wednesday: "Elections are not on the table now.."
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Old October 19th, 2017 #35
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Default Saturday, Spain to Implement Art. 155

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Old October 21st, 2017 #36
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Default Puigdemont won't Accept Rajoy's Plan

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41710873

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Old October 21st, 2017 #37
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Default Huge protest, Live Stream

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Old October 22nd, 2017 #38
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Guess that's about all for that in Spain. They made a lot of noise in front of TV cameras, had their little drama, now back to business as usual. How's the soccer coming along there? Flamenco dancing, bullfighting?
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Old October 22nd, 2017 #39
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Guess that's about all for that in Spain. They made a lot of noise in front of TV cameras, had their little drama, now back to business as usual. How's the soccer coming along there? Flamenco dancing, bullfighting?
Elections will be held in January, but main drama is over for now, and I'm glad since it would've been a bad situation all the way around IMO.

Too bad Spain does not have a truly viable opposition movement, and it would be nice if it was the whole Nation who were united in wanting to be part of it, regional drama aside.

Flamenco and Soccer are 'all kinds of good' there-- I wish we had White 'football' in the US at the same level of popularity, although those soccer feetsball fans get pretty intense in Europe, particularly Spain. Maybe they're wired to fight about errthing, lol.

Latrino feetsball fans in S. America and Brazil are far worse, they will kill over it, same as their pinata behavior (that's muh candy!!)
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Old October 22nd, 2017 #40
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I don't know what elections will solve. The central government in Madrid could just shut that down like they tried with the Oct. 1 independence referendum. The whole thing seems like one big circle-jerk to me. Unless people in Catalonia are prepared to stage a real revolution, meaning a violent one (which I don't believe they are), or start using the same tactics as the ETA Basque separatists or the IRA, nothing will happen. Nobody else in the rest of the world really seems to care, either. How about opposing the non-White invasion of Europe? That would be something important and worthwhile.
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