Will We be a White Movement or a Xian One? (Round Two)

[SmokyMtn]

Rounder started a thread recently, announcing that he will be speaking in front of a class of university students, attending a course on religion.

Rounder has been given several good suggestions for his 40-45 minute speech, but not one of us really asked Rounder for his views on religion.

That got me thinking, what is Rounder's view on religion?

After some searching, I found an excellent discussion back in 2007, "Will We be a White Movement or a Christian One?"

The person starting the thread opens with:

Will We be a White Movement or a Xian One?

We can't be both.

Thus a new thread to discuss this primary internal struggle between the Bible-believing Xian patriots and the strict rational biological race-thinkers who recognize that the Xians' Bible is Jewish, not to mention their imaginary Jewish tribal god and "His" imaginary Jewish savior of a "Son" who supposededly died for their sins. What a load of Jewish crap for a supposed Teutonic Jew-fighter to seek his identity and life's purpose

Skip to page three, post #55.

Originally Posted by Rounder

Why do anything ?? Why get involved ?? Why stick your necks out ?? God's in control of everything. Whatever God wants to happen will happen. So just sit back and watch, bow down on your knees, and humble yourself like a contented, blissful slave. And don't go against the "chosenites", or "God" will punish you and your nation, and make sure you help the jews all you can, so "God" will reward you in heaven.

Once you actually believe all that kike bullshit, you live your lives believing you'll spend trillions of centures in ecstacy in "God's" mansion with gorgeous angels. So why would you give much of a shit about what happens among mere mortals during 70 or 80 years of earthly mortal existance ??

Originally Posted by Rounder

Do you believe in eternal life ?? Which of course means spending trillions of centuries at least in heavenly bliss, right ?? Why then, do you give a shit about what happens in your 70 or 80 measily years of life on earth ??

And which is more important to you, your race or your religion ??

(Watch him evade and spin)

Originally Posted by Rounder

Originally, christianity was forced, not voluntary. Convert from paganism or die. Parents wanted their children to live, so they taught them christianity as if they believed it themselves. Then after a few generations, everybody said, "my daddy believed it, and his daddy believed it, so it must be true, therefore, I believe it myself." Finally after many generations, christianity became undeniable, for that reason.

Nothing but blind faith, which is beyond me. Not a shred of proof, only vague, ambiguous, therefore flimsy evidence, written down over a period of 1,600 years ending in 100 AD by non-Aryan supremacists. There are few if any, ancient Aryan skeletons in the middle east, only skeletons of niggers and semites.

Christianity is nothing but superstition. Mother Nature is real and undeniable, proven by good eyesight without the aid of books, preachers, or anything else. Death is nothing more than a long, peaceful sleep.

Christianity today, makes white men humble, feminine, weak, vulnerable and defenseless. Mother Nature demands we be strong, fanatical fighters in order to survive and procreate more of what Mother Nature developed and made superior, over a period of hundreds of thousands of years - Aryan Man.

Originally Posted by Rounder

I read the following in one of Dr William Pierce's magazine editions decades ago, and jotted it down. I believe it was written by Heydrich.

Regarding Christ:


What man among us today, who still possesses can iota of pride, does not, deep in his soul, have a profound, strangely haunting sense of shame when he comes across the image of the Crucified Christ ?

The gods of our ancestors looked different. They were men and each had a weapon in his hand, symbolizing the attitude of life that is inherent in our race, that of action, that of a man’s responsibility to himself and to his people. How different the pale crucified one, expressing by his decided look of suffering, humility, and extreme self-surrender, qualities which contradict the fundamentally heroic attitude of our race.

Originally Posted by Rounder

Hey "killer", explain why physical anthropologists can't seem to find any ancient Aryan skeletons in the "holy land" ?? They've found "mountains" of ancient nigger and semite skeletons, though. I mean, in just what century did your C.I. Aryan ancestors leave the holy land, anyhow ?? Just curious.

Originally Posted by Rounder

I asked you why no ancient Aryan skeletons have been found in the "holy land", and your answer was: "I don't know".

But yet, you C.I. folks would have us believe that the lost tribes of "holy land" Israel were Aryans. If you are right, then there ought to be millions of Aryan skeletons there of the ancestors of the lost Aryan tribes of Israel. Were all those millions cremated, perhaps ?? Or were they buried at the bottom of the Red Sea after Charleton Heston parted it ?? I mean there must be some explanation why none of the skeletons of your Aryan "chosenite" jewish ancestors can be found inside the "holy land". So either tell us or else change your religion.

Originally Posted by Rounder

As much as I respect those 1920's Klanspeople for upholding racial segregation and making niggers behave themselves, they cheered wildly when their sons marched off and helped butcher 50-60 million white people in Europe for the goddamned jews. And they themselves cheered and/or helped in, the butchers of 15-20 million white people during WWI, also for the goddamned jews. Why ?? Because their government and their lying preachers told them it was their Christian duty. And even today, virtually all christians are delighted their fathers or grandfathers butchered all those "bad" white people, and are perfectly willing themselves, to fight and finance even more jew wars and butcher a billion more gentiles in the middle east, without anymore hesitation or remorse than their fathers and grandfather had.

[SmokyMtn]

Round two will pick up at post #113:

Originally Posted by White Will

I posted this (unformatted) ramble on the "fumagation" thread, but it's more appropriate here:
---------------------------

Originally Posted by Jim Crowe
I myself am an athiest and have big problems with christianity, especially the egalitarian aspect of it. But I wouldn't want to ban a white racialist who happens to be christian. I believe a lot of klan members are christian.

Actually that's not my point. There's nothing wrong with having a hardline core or standard. VNN is certainly one of the most hardcore WN sites there is. My point was that during the 3 years that I've been on here, Linder always described this forum as a "free speech" forum. If only speech that is allowed is a very narrowly defined ideology, then fine but it should not be labeled as free speech. I'm always of the viewpoint that political speech should not be censored. I just have a visceral reaction to it.

Thank you for your reply, Jim.

I'd be the last to deny you your freedom to express yourself. I would prefer you state why you consider yourself an atheist, why you reject Xianity rather than why you think we rational "non-believers" should play patty-cake with the irrational, hostile "believers." Is it just that you have come to embrace the Rodney King school of revolutionary thought?: "why can't we all just get along?" I see a lot of that here at VNNF. What a lovely, special plan that is.

What I'm saying is that those who hold that Nature-based hard line on race that you acknowledge should have their own counsels, their own places to build consensus among themselves without interference from the Bible-thumpers and cross lighters that you seem to put such stock in. The Ku Klux Klan? Give me a break, Jim. They can have their Jesus-lovin' cross lightings free from those of us who prefer an approach that's grounded in REALITY. Should we not be accorded the same by them? For a while we had VNNF as a near refuge from them, but no more.

Where is our gathering place now? It's not on atheist Web sites because atheists are not race-thinkers; they simply do not believe in the other fellow's spooks. They pretty much believe in nothing. "Atheist" is another derogatory Jew buzzword which I'll never stoop to use to describe either myself or my comrades.

We used to have Dr. Pierce's National Alliance with it's Cosmotheistic spiritual aspect, and, though it had its flaws, was building nicely into a monolithic movement apart from the hymn-singing herd. We were not allied with "the movement," as represented by VNN and Stormfront and anyone else that welcomes in incompatible elements that disrupt and undermine cohesion, solidarity.

One of the first things stumblebum bullies Gliebe/Walker did after hijacking NA, however, was to remove those five pages from the National Alliance Membership Handbook (p.46-51) that addressed Xianity as an ideology in direct opposition to that of our Alliance's. They removed that which had held us together, that set us apart. They decided their way was better than our Founder's. Those who went along with this and defended the betrayers of what was arguably Dr. Pierce's most important policy, no matter how long they did so -- but the longer, the worse -- should hang their heads in shame for that dishonorable decision to go along to get along.

Gliebe/Walker became my enemy by that reprehensible, unilateral decision alone. Others thought this move was smart, that it would bring in more supporters with a Xian-friendly outreach. Did it?

Roper did the same with his White Revolution, as did Strom/Gaede & Co. with their National Vanguard; then Nationalist Coalition followed suit. Now, I suspect, this latest splinter of a splinter of a splinter incarnation, European Americans United, follows the same big tent approach rather than fall back and regroup around the remnant that stubbornly holds to Dr. Pierce's hard line vanguard approach. Why didn't these erstwhile Alliance members just join the Counsel of Conservative Citizens and build that up rather than mirror CoCC with yet another Xian-friendly conservative umbrella group? What differentiates Gliebe's "new" NA from CoCC now?

I believe Gliebe has joined with Dr. Pierce's most bitter rival, Willis Carto, to some extent. Try to imagine Dr. Pierce's opinion of such a drastic compromise of his hard won, fundamental principle. That's right, it's unimaginable.

What's lacking today is Dr. Pierce's approach. The Jew Bible, worship of the imaginary Abrahamic god and of his mythical bastard son, has no place in a serious White resistance movement that focuses on near absolute Jew control of our so-called Judeo-Xian civilization. There is no such thing as "positive Xianity"; not for our purposes there's not. Xianity is an opposed ideology. Period! It's Jewish at its core. How can we reasonaby expect to de-judaize our kinsmen by feeding them thin Judaic pabulum rather than the rare red meat of strict racial loyalty that they need for nourishment?

[]....eventually those here who don't care to associate with pimply-faced anonymous cybernazis, outmoded and hostile Xian Kluckers, Xian Identity nutcases, and "judeo-Xians" -- those like us who left the NA AND VNN in disgust -- because of this revoltingly disastrous "big tent of unity" with the Vastor Pissers of the world, pissing on us, telling us how we'll burn in Jewish hell if we don't take his pale kike on a stick into our hearts, or whatever -- we will regroup. We will do so around our hard line core standard and put the conehead Kluckers in our rearview mirrors once and for all. "No Xians or Jews allowed" will be the implicit standard, as the explicit "No Jews Allowed" set the NSDAP apart from the Social Democrats' (SPD) and communists' that were competing for support of the German people's hearts and minds in 1920 - 1930s Germany.

It's not just the vocal Kluckers and Xian "Nazis" who will be ineligible, but known, incorrigible subversives/smear artists like Commander ASSWIPE and Co., Tubby Covington & Co., etc., styling themselves as National Socialist leaders. How in hell can anything be built with these psychotic, constitutional liars and shit disturbers in our midst? It ain't going to happen, Jim.

[The White Movement]....has created a Frankenstein monster by insisting on throwing together two entirely contradictory world views, two insoluble elements; Xian patriots who worship the Jew's tribal god (oil) with hardline biological race-fighters (vinegar) and expecting "unity" of thought and purpose. This thread makes that point in spades.

The fact is, Bible-believers must accommodate themselves to our a strict Race First ideology because we will never join with their nonsensical, antithetical ideology that "we are the true Jews of the Bible and Yahweh will save us." That's no better than the screwy evangelical "end times" crowd, the crazy white Xian Zionists who worship everything Judaic and deny our race.

[SmokyMtn]

#128 from round one.......

Originally Posted by Paul Drake

The threadbare numbers argument again.
From yet another xoidialist nOOb.....
Which sports The Good Dr. and Hadley in it's avatar..... (no less)

"Us xombies have the numbers!"
"Us xombies have the numbers!"
"Us xombies have the numbers!"

So what'cha want with us non-believing Racialists anyhow?
Go. -Grab your 'numbers' and your imaginary, invisible spook leader
and get the job done! Who's stoppin' 'ya?
60 xillian xombies should be able to dispatch the kikes and their zOG
and their mud and still be back in time for supper.

[SmokyMtn]

At #140, Fred Streed, president of Dr. Pierce's National Alliance posts:

Originally Posted by Fred Streed

Please tell me how pretending there is somehow something of value in christianity is a good use of time. Is there any value in pretending we are all descended from two humans placed in a magical garden by a magical spirit? Is there any value in pretending to believe we are not part of Nature, subject to the same laws as the rest of life?

We are not attacking Klansmen and Christians, we are attacking lies and superstition.

And here at #155:

Originally Posted by Fred Streed

It is not my purpose to throw insults at christians. It is some of the things they profess to believe that I am opposed to.

Dr. Pierce did not have much use for christianity although he recognized that a lot of well meaning people with basically healthy instincts thought of themselves as "christians". But he was never shy about deliniating the damage done to the West by christianity. And he was a total realist, his PhD was in physics, his worldview didn't leave much room for superstition and fairy tales.

[SmokyMtn]

Originally Posted by Mike Riggins
Most of the Christian bashers are the societal misfits Dr. Pierce warned us about in his last speech.

White Will responds in post #181:

Originally Posted by White Will

How dare you use Dr. Pierce's picture as your avatar. You must be one of Gliebe's sycophants, Riggins.

Watch the video. He mentioned Hale's WCOTC and the prison outreach of Pastor Butler's Church of Jaysus X Xian. Don't try to pull a selective name out of context here to reinforce your lie. I know for a fact that Pierce was also speaking of ASSWIPE in that video. He was pissed that Roper was working with ASSWIPE to provide commies and antiracists as counterprotesters.

William Luther Pierce did not "hate rallies'; he hated phony rallies that were guaranteed to turn into circus shows for freaks like ASSWIPE and that damaged the National Alliance's image of seriousness and professionalism.

The North Carolina Alliance conducted many, many sanctioned demonstrations, including annual rallies honoring Confederate Memorial Day for seven or eight years running in front of the Graham, NC, courthouse -- until Gliebe queered things, that is. In all that time we never once had even one anti-White protester at our speeches and wreath-layings honoring our Confederate dead. Some here on VNNF attended those solemn rallies...with Chairman Pierce's full blessing. The Graham community appreciated our annual events and many locals looked forward to standing with us "evil Nazis" each year. We had their popular support.

You're gone. I don't like seeing WLP's image desecrated by you. <kerplunk!>

This is the video they were discussing:

William Pierce Speech - YouTube

William Pierce Speech - YouTube

[SmokyMtn]

Rounder follows up with post #183:

Originally Posted by Rounder

Mike, most WN critics of Christianity don't really hate WN Christians. Like Fred said, we bash the doctrine, not those who follow it. Even most of our own relatives claim to be christians. And many of VNN's biggest contributors and distributors are, as well.

But no matter how you look at Christians today, you've got to admit that the vast overwhelming majority are accomplices of the jews, therefore accessories in the jewish enslavement and genocide of White/Aryan people. And Christian Identity adherents haven't even made a small dent in their numbers during century long campaigns of trying.

Aryan youth need a new "religion" or spiritual basis to unite under. Surely, we don't want them to become like their jew-worshipping christian parents. And so, since C.I. hasn't gotten anywhere with white youth or white people in general, why not consider Will and Adolph Hitler's religious doctrine of Nature-Based-Aryanism ??

[SmokyMtn]

Post #187:

Originally Posted by White Will

Dr. Pierce had no requirement that members be non-Xian, but any member, upon receiving his NA Membership Handbook, figured out pretty quick that Alliance ideology and Alliance ideology were antithetical (p.41-46) and that if he wanted to stay a member, he would keep his Jew god worshipping to himself.

A questionaire/survey was sent to each new Alliance member with his new membership packet, and one of the questions was, Religion, if any. I'm sure many ol' Pierce loyalists remember that. Very few were Xians, but we knew who they were and watched them and evaluated them to see if they would adapt. I know all this because I was Dr. Pierce's first Membership Coordinator and I'm the one who suggested that we survey our members, new as well as existing at the time -- 1992 -- to get a better understanding of what skills they brought to our Alliance; family background, education level, language skills, interests, other organizations they belonged to, etc.

....and, who knows, my and Dr. Pierce's and the Colonel's and others' uncompromising, hard line biological race message just might catch on some day as Dr. Paul's freedom recently message has. Patience, patience, patience. No revolution before it's time.

[SmokyMtn]

For comic relief, here is an exchange between Fred Streed and Will Williams (#191) on the National Alliance surveys.....

Originally Posted by Fred Streed

I remember that. IIRC I listed my religion as "Harley Davidson" and suggested that I might have some skills that could be of use to the NA, perhaps something along the lines of meeting and evaluating new female applicants for proper ideological orientation.

PS My religion is no longer Harlry Davidson. It is now BMW. Pork-it's not just for breakfast anymore.

Originally Posted by White Will

Ha! I remember our enjoying pouring over those surveys together and belly laughing over some of the replies to Religion, if any. My favorite was, "I believe in god, but he damned sure ain't a Jew!" We knew we had a hot one there, didn't we Fred? He wasn't going to slip through the cracks.

[SmokyMtn]

#217, from round one......

Originally Posted by White Will

I, for one, appreciate your thoughtful, nonhostile post, Banjo. I'm in the Bible Belt and deal with White Xians every day and get along with them just fine. They are my people. I don't spurn their helping hands when offered, nor do they spurn mine, because their spookcraft doesn't enter into our conversations and my racial religion, if you want to call my world view a religion rather than a way of life or philosophy, rarely comes up unless I find my neighbor receptive.

On VNN, however, it's a struggle for which philosophy will be the foundation for our resistance to Jewish tyranny. When I asked, "Will we be a White movement or a Xian one?, I add that we can't be both. One is racial, or biological, recognizing our place in Nature's order; the other escapist, otherworldly, and formulated by Jews, our eternal sworn enemies to have us worship them and serve them as chattel. Yahweh is the Jew's tribal god, not mine; Scriptures, their "history," not ours.

Fred Nietzsche rebuked Xianity, proffering that in order to institute a new belief system in a people the ground must first be cleared of the existing belief system. Xianity is the existing belief system, though with a tenuous hold on our kind of late. It's not ours as is obvious in its spread into Africa, latin America and Asia -- a universalist, egalitarian creed. Dr. Pierce's excusivist cosmotheism, or something similar based on racial survival and advancement -- a Nietschean worldview, it can be said; one grounded in Natural law and reality -- is what our people need. So don't say we have nothing to replace the decidedly inferior Jewish belief system with.

We were White for 100,000 years before your 2,000 years of Jewish "history" was imposed on us. We can do better. No one said it would be without struggle. That struggle will be here, for the moment, in a small way, not with my getting in the faces of my Xian neighbors telling them what they need to believe. My neighbors are not engaged in the struggle. They barely recognise that we are even in a struggle for our very existence because they live in a 98% White county. Their racism is implicit.

I seek out those who agree with me and others, and Dr. Pierce before us, and William G. Simpson and Nietsche and Shopenhaur, and Darwin and the pantheon of other great White thinkers before him, on whose shoulders he stood. William Pierce introduced me and thousands of other concerned Whites with a sense of responsibility to our race to the works of our great ancestors, and I see all that as near destroyed. Now we get the likes of Commander ASSWIPE posing as Great White Leader. I think not. We can do better.

You quote Mark Twain. I love Mark Twain, and can play dueling Twain quotes if you wish. He was no Xian and had a healthy contempt for the creed as a suitable belief system. He said that the Bible is so full of filth that one would be advised to wear gloves when opening it. Be careful using Twain quotes to make your case for the "filthy" Jewish creed. You'd do better quoting the hypocrite, Billy Graham, who knew about the Jew and refused to warn his flock.

[SmokyMtn]

Round one, post #233.......

Originally Posted by White Will

Thanks, Fred. Donnachaidh, too. I saw where you quoted Mr. Riggins' criticism of me. He feels his defense of Xianity is bolstered by rep points he has been getting. My opinion has been validated by the rep points I've received, as well -- thanks to everyone who throws an atta boy my way, whether publicly or privately. I'd still be saying the same things whether I got rep points or not. I have better ways for measuring success of the biological racist world view I learned for the most part from Dr. Pierce; it's more like what Fred describes: the realization of a powerful idea. It's hard to measure, but one recognizes success with these things when he sees it. Fred and I saw it first hand. It's not meant for the mob to understand the now unpopular idea, but for those who can grasp it and run with the certainty that it is both right and necessary, and who are motivated to help bring about the realization of the idea whose time has come no matter the difficulty of the noble task.

It's a good time to once again post the words of Dr. Pierce on the subject of Xianity. I posted this long buried piece here two weeks ago: http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p...ity#post679909

It had been posted long before that here, and again, forgotten by all but a few: http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t...=Jerry+Falwell
---

Pierce on Xians as National Alliance members

This topical blast from the past is an editorial written by National Alliance Founder and long time Chairman William L. Pierce in the NA Members' BULLETIN early in 1982 -- that's 25 years ago and reads as fresh and relevant as if written today:

THE NATIONAL OFFICE has received a few complaints (fewer than expected) from members about what has been perceived as an anti-Christian bias in recent issues of NV [National Vanguard magazine]. One member has resigned.
The complaints fall into two general categories: 1. "I am a Christian. Why are you attacking my religion?" and 2. "I am not a Christian, but many White people are. We must all stick together. To attack Christianity is divisive."
It should first be noted that the National Alliance is not primarily a religious organization --at least, not in the usual sense of the word, although most members are able to recognize the strong spiritual element in the Alliance's message. Second, it should be noted that the National Office is fully aware of the sensitive nature of the Christian religion, and for that reason NV avoided the question for a long time.

This avoidance, however, was in conflict with the Alliance's fundamental obligation to deal forthrightly with 'all' issues of vital concern to the welfare and progress of our race. This obligation where Christianity is concerned has become especially difficult to ignore during the past few months, with the growing strength of the Moral Majority and other right-wing Christian groups and their active participation in political matters. The member who resigned said she was also a member of the Moral Majority. The leader of that organization, the Reverend Jerry Falwell, has been outspoken in his support of Zionism, and he was recently given a Zionist award by Jewish leaders. There exists a clear conflict of interests for any Alliance member who supports such an organization, and the Alliance member should not compromise in matters of this sort.

This is not the place to deal at length with details of religious history and doctrine; NV will continue to have articles on these topics from time to time, and there will be such an article in the April issue. Here, however, a few things will be mentioned briefly for the guidance of Alliance members.

The most important single fact concerning Christianity with which the Alliance must deal is that all the major Christian churches, Catholic and Protestant, liberal and fundamentalist, have openly aligned themselves with the enemies of the White race. The Catholics and the liberal Protestants are vigorously supporting racial mixing, while the fundamentalist Protestants are strong boosters of Zionism. These alignments will become increasingly important factors in our struggle in the years ahead, as the churches become more and more involved in social and political issues. The Jews have already announced their intention to mobilize fundamentalist Christians in their effort to maintain control of the U.S. government. The Alliance cannot remain silent in the face of such developments, for the sake of White unity or anything else.

No honest, conscientious Alliance member can maintain his membership in the Alliance and also in an organization which is fundamentally opposed to the goals and principles of the Alliance. The former member who belongs to the moral majority acted correctly in resigning from the Alliance, and the same applies to others: Any Alliance member who is also a member of a church or other Christian organization which supports racial mixing or Zionism should decide now where he stands, and he should then resign either from his church or from the Alliance.

In fact, the great majority of Alliance members who originally had some Christian church affiliation have already made their decisions and left the churches. Those members who continue to consider themselves Christians either have no church affiliation or belong to very small, independent churches which have pro-White doctrines. It is primarily these members who have objected to the recent treatment of Christianity in NV. "It's all right to attack the big churches," they say, "because those churches have been subverted by the Jews -- but don't attack Christianity itself. What the churches are preaching today isn't really Christianity."

Well, far be it from the National Alliance to decide what is really Christianity. Christians have been fighting with one another over that question for the better part of the last 2,000 years without arriving at an answer acceptable to all parties concerned. From a strictly practical viewpoint, however, we must use the word "Christianity" in NV in the sense in which it is understood by the general public and by the great majority of readers. In that sense, "Christianity" means the lumped together doctrines of the major Christian churches, without regard for all the little quibbles which separate Catholics from Protestants, or ultra-liberal Presbyterians from Holy Rollers and teetotaling Baptists.

Beyond this question of whether it is the race-mixers and Zionists or the pro-Whites who are the real Christians, there are the troubling issues of the non-European origin of Christianity: of the great body of Christian ethical doctrines which are accepted by nearly all the churches but which conflict with White spirituality and the needs for White survival, such as the Sermon on the Mount; and of the body of Old Testament. Jewish mythology -- such as the creation myth of Genesis; the "chosen people" myth, and Isaiah's ravings against all non-Jews, together with his prophesies that the Jews will eventually rule the world and all other races will serve them -- which comes along with most versions of Christianity.

All three of the aforementioned issues are relevant to the mission of the National Alliance, and they cannot be ignored: We must look to our racial roots, and we must rid ourselves of alien influences, including those from the Levant; we must govern ourselves by White values and ethical doctrines, and by no others; and we must concern ourselves with truth alone.

A number of men and women who have understood the first two of these issues but who have, nevertheless, still considered themselves both Christian and pro-White have attempted to resolve the contradiction by denying the Jewish origins of Christianity and by choosing interpretations of Christian ethical doctrines which differ markedly from the commonly accepted ones. They have asserted that not only was Jesus not a Jew, but neither were the people living in Palestine during the Old Testament and the New Testament periods Jews. These people, they say, were actually the ancestors of the Anglo-Saxons and other peoples of Europe.

One can argue either way about Jesus, because the historical evidence is insufficient to support a firm conclusion. But the assertion that the people of the Old Testament or the people of Palestine among whom the Christian movement began were Anglo-Saxons, or anything but Semites, for the most part, is demonstrably false. Such assertions can only be maintained by persons who close their eyes to the clear historical record, just as a belief in the creation myth of Genesis can only be maintained by persons who refuse to accept the clear scientific evidence to the contrary.

If, despite everything above, there are Alliance members or prospective Alliance members who still consider themselves Christians, then it must be in the sense that they value the specifically White elements of Christianity which have been added since its origins -- the great art, the great music, and the great architecture produced by White men during the centuries in which the Christian churches ruled Europe -- and that they also share the White spiritual feelings which have been eloquently expressed by many men and women who were Christians and who applied the adjective "Christian" to feelings which, in fact, came from deep within the White race-soul and existed long before the advent of the Christian church.

Such Christians we can call our comrades and be proud to have in our ranks.
---end---

[SmokyMtn]

Moving ahead to post #302.......

Originally Posted by White Will

Substitute the words Our White Resistance Movement for the words this forum and you are on your way to better understanding of the question in the Subject title.

Dr. Pierce told us that our movement, grounded solidly in the primacy of race, must be concerned with religions, which are not, because religions influence the behavior of people, society and governments. Religions, he said, have doctrines that deal in matters both temporal and spiritual so are often in conflict with National Alliance doctrine.

He pointed out that Xian doctrines are of much greater concern to us than, say, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism, because Xinsanity has been inextricably interentwined with the White race in America, Europe and every traditional homeland of our people for several centuries, and influencing our people, our society and our governments, and to our race's detriment.

Therefore we WILL address Xianity, and Xians be damned if they attempt to stop us. We will focus and scutinize and impose our collective White Will on the issue of this alien creed, Xianity, and see which force is standing at the end. If Jew-spawned Xianity prevails, the White race goes the way of the Dodo bird -- not fit for survival because they put their false faith and superstitions ahead of race survival. Mother Nature could give a shit about Xianity; it's anti-Nature. She does not reward such foolishness. Mother Nature is brutal like that. Our White race must conform to Her Eternal Laws or perish. Fact!

[Ian]

What is the point of this thread?

[SmokyMtn]

Originally Posted by Ian

What is the point of this thread?

Are we going to be a White movement, or a Christian one? We cannot be both.

We used to have Dr. Pierce's National Alliance with it's Cosmotheistic spiritual aspect, and, though it had its flaws, was building nicely into a monolithic movement apart from the hymn-singing herd. We were not allied with "the movement," as represented by VNN and Stormfront and anyone else that welcomes in incompatible elements that disrupt and undermine cohesion, solidarity.

When I asked, "Will we be a White movement or a Xian one?, I add that we can't be both. One is racial, or biological, recognizing our place in Nature's order; the other escapist, otherworldly, and formulated by Jews, our eternal sworn enemies to have us worship them and serve them as chattel. Yahweh is the Jew's tribal god, not mine; Scriptures, their "history," not ours.

Fred Nietzsche rebuked Xianity, proffering that in order to institute a new belief system in a people the ground must first be cleared of the existing belief system. Xianity is the existing belief system, though with a tenuous hold on our kind of late. It's not ours as is obvious in its spread into Africa, latin America and Asia -- a universalist, egalitarian creed. Dr. Pierce's excusivist cosmotheism, or something similar based on racial survival and advancement -- a Nietschean worldview, it can be said; one grounded in Natural law and reality -- is what our people need. So don't say we have nothing to replace the decidedly inferior Jewish belief system with.

I have better ways for measuring success of the biological racist world view I learned for the most part from Dr. Pierce; it's more like what Fred describes: the realization of a powerful idea. It's hard to measure, but one recognizes success with these things when he sees it. Fred and I saw it first hand. It's not meant for the mob to understand the now unpopular idea, but for those who can grasp it and run with the certainty that it is both right and necessary, and who are motivated to help bring about the realization of the idea whose time has come no matter the difficulty of the noble task.

I seek out those who agree with me and others, and Dr. Pierce before us, and William G. Simpson and Nietsche and Shopenhaur, and Darwin and the pantheon of other great White thinkers before him, on whose shoulders he stood.

We will regroup. We will do so around our hard line core standard and put the conehead Kluckers in our rearview mirrors once and for all. "No Xians or Jews allowed" will be the implicit standard, as the explicit "No Jews Allowed" set the NSDAP apart from the Social Democrats' (SPD) and communists' that were competing for support of the German people's hearts and minds in 1920 - 1930s Germany.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by SmokyMtn

Are we going to be a White movement, or a Christian one? We cannot be both.

I agree. Christianity is not now, nor was it ever a "White" religion. It is a religion that recognizes the Jewish god, Yahweh as its supreme deity, and sees the 1st Century Jewish philosopher Jesus as Yahweh's "only begotten son" incarnate.

Christianity has weakened the White race with its liberalist agenda of "we are all God's children", "love thy neighbor as thyself", "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and "turn the other cheek". Christianity also acknowledges the Jews as "God's chosen people" and Christianity has become the most multi-cultural religion on the face of the earth - it is practiced by blacks, hispanics, asians, and countless other races, ethnicities and nationalities across the globe.

Christians will always put their devotion to Christianity and their worship of Christianity's Jewish god first, before race.

A true White Nationalist will always put race before religion. Our race is our religion.

[A.G.]

I think we need to differentiate between Pro White or Pro Racialist Christians and MultiCult addhering Christians and/or Zionist Christians. For me Religion is a personal matter, if somebody believes in Jesus the Christ but is an Racialist he is ok. I welcome all Religions and Ideologies if they are positive and Racialists. After all Religion always gave us Guidelines for our Live and Hope for a better Afterwards. And Traditions like Christmas, other Christians Feasts, graving the dead etc.

[SmokyMtn]

Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins

Christians will always put their devotion to Christianity and their worship of Christianity's Jewish god first, before race.

A true White Nationalist will always put race before religion. Our race is our religion.

Bingo!

Originally Posted by Rounder

Do you believe in eternal life ?? Which of course means spending trillions of centuries at least in heavenly bliss, right ?? Why then, do you give a shit about what happens in your 70 or 80 measily years of life on earth ??

And which is more important to you, your race or your religion ??

(Watch him evade and spin)

In post number 13 of this thread, I put together a series of quotes from the first thread that describes what we need to put in place of Christianity, if we are going to survive as a race. Otherwise, we are going to perish.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by A.G.

I think we need to differentiate between Pro White or Pro Racialist Christians and MultiCult addhering Christians and/or Zionist Christians. For me Religion is a personal matter, if somebody believes in Jesus the Christ but is an Racialist he is ok. I welcome all Religions and Ideologies if they are positive and Racialists. After all Religion always gave us Guidelines for our Live and Hope for a better Afterwards. And Traditions like Christmas, other Christians Feasts, graving the dead etc.

Early on in the founding days of Christianity's adoption by White Europeans, the Church sought to convert the European peoples from their own native pagan religions by retaining elements of their pagan traditions and Christianising them.

In this way, many of the native European pagan festivals became Christian "holy days".

For instance, the Norse/Germanic festivals of Yule (which marked the rebirth of the sun at the Winter Solstice) and Eostre (which celebrated the return of Spring and honored Eostre, the Teutonic fertility goddess, on the Vernal Equinox), were Christianised to instead represent the birth of Jesus and his resurrection.

Imbolc, Beltane, Lughnasadh and Samhain, the four ancient festivals of the pagan Celts were Christianised by the Church to become Candlemass, Roodmass, Lammas, and Hallowmass, and are the origin of such secular festivals as Ground Hog's Day, May Day, Harvest Home, and Halloween.

All of these traditions have their origins in the ancient pagan festivals of pre-Christian Europe. They were merely Christianized in order to encourage the ancient pagans of Europe to convert from their own native European religions to a foreign faith that honors a dead Jew as the son of the Jewish god.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by SmokyMtn

Bingo!

In post number 13 of this thread, I put together a series of quotes from the first thread that describes what we need to put in place of Christianity, if we are going to survive as a race. Otherwise, we are going to perish.

From a religious standpoint, neither of Christanity's two options for an afterlife are very attractive; either (A): spending all eternity in constant torment burning in a perpetual blaze of fire and brimstone together with all of the other truly interesting people from history, or: (B) spending all eternity in a never-ending church service, singing the praises of the Jewish god and his dead son. Basically, it's a "damed if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.

For those who are interested in what our ancient pre-Christian Celtic ancestors believed and practiced, I recommend the following:

http://leborfeasarunda.weebly.com/

[SmokyMtn]

Why don't all the pro-White organizations unite?

A question posed to Dr. Pierce, from Attack!, Issue No. 42, 1976

.....the leader who has struggled for years—giving up his career and any semblance of a normal family life—in order to advance a cause which has a deep ideological significance for him will be less ready to compromise his beliefs for a temporary advantage. He takes the long view of things and is more concerned with keeping his group headed in the right direction toward a distant goal than he is with negotiating the next bump in the road.

Now, all this does not mean that patriotic groups do not or cannot collaborate. They often do, and there undoubtedly will be more collaboration in the future. The National Alliance, for example, collaborates with several other groups and with individuals whose beliefs to not coincide with our own, even though such collaboration is sometimes not publicized. But it does mean that any sort of close-knit patriotic confederation, incorporating most of the presently existing groups under a unified leadership, is extraordinarily unlikely.

This, however, may not be the unmitigated catastrophe it seems. Combining weaknesses does not necessarily yield strength, just as eight cripples, by joining arms, do not yield one gladiator.

When what is needed is genuine strength, not a combination of weaknesses, the way in which the strength will be achieved is likely to be through a free play of forces—through a selective competition among different groups, from which one will emerge as the most fit to lead our people. It is a wasteful, even tragic process, but it has always been Nature’s way.

Everything beautiful, noble, and of enduring value in this world has come about through such a process, which has ruthlessly weeded out weaknesses, punished mistakes, and corrected errors. That for which we are now striving will only be attained in the same way.

[Armstrong]

I see no reason a Christian facet to the overall betterment of the White race should not be welcomed, and each one considered on their own merits.

Many blessings to all.