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Old September 15th, 2012 #81
Roy Wagahuski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
The chances of landing a 1 shot kill from 50 yards with most .45 ACP pistols would be nothing short of a lucky shot. I know Glocks aren't worth a shit much past 20-25 yards.
As opposed to...?

You're demonstrating confusion about the difference between a gun's and/or load's inherent accuracy and marksmanship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
I'm only saying people underestimate a .22lr, and its a fact that you can kill someone immediately with a well placed shot. I'm not suggesting I'd use a .22lr to shoot at a charging bear.
Back to this. The only exceptional quality about the .22 rimfire is that sometimes it tests the rule. The fact that a .22 rimfire can be used with surprising effectiveness in very competent hands is no endorsement for its general acceptance for uses where larger rounds are far better suited.

Do you see?

You're arguing technicalities. I'm arguing pragmatics.
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Old September 15th, 2012 #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Wagahuski View Post
As opposed to...?

You're demonstrating confusion about the difference between a gun's and/or load's inherent accuracy and marksmanship.



Back to this. The only exceptional quality about the .22 rimfire is that sometimes it tests the rule. The fact that a .22 rimfire can be used with surprising effectiveness in very competent hands is no endorsement for its general acceptance for uses where larger rounds are far better suited.

Do you see?

You're arguing technicalities. I'm arguing pragmatics.
No you are arguing for the sake of arguing, building up one straw man argument after the next.

What I underlined is what I've been suggesting the entire time, is that it can in the right hands be used effectively to kill. After I suggest I would prefer a rifle shooting .22lr to kill someone at a range of 50 yards over a .45 ACP pistol, you pull out a misleading graph showing only a 3" drop, but anyone who shoots pistols knows that getting that kind of range and accuracy out of a .45 ACP is a lucky shot at best. In my experience, I'd be more confident to land a kill shot with a .22lr over a .45ACP pistol at that range. And that is all I'm suggesting.
 
Old September 15th, 2012 #83
Roy Wagahuski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
No you are arguing for the sake of arguing, building up one straw man argument after the next.
Read the actual meaning of the straw-man fallacy and then disappear, please.

Quote:
you pull out a misleading graph showing only a 3" drop
The most relied upon, scientifically accurate trajectory-generator available shows an average 2-3" drop for any common commercial .45acp load, in any common pistol or revolver, zeroed at 25 yards, fired at 50. You call that misleading? You have a better calculator than they do? Show us.

Quote:
but anyone who shoots pistols knows
Again with your fallacious popular appeal to "everyone" on what is a matter of fact, not opinion.

Quote:
getting that kind of range and accuracy out of a .45 ACP is a lucky shot at best.
Fact is, decent 50-yard (and farther) groups with all kinds of handgun and cartridge combinations are rather boringly common, as a simple google image search will prove.

Quote:
In my experience, I'd be more confident to land a kill shot with a .22lr over a .45ACP pistol at that range. And that is all I'm suggesting.
Then blame yourself, instead of all guns and all ammo above your handicap.
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Old September 15th, 2012 #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Wagahuski View Post
Read the actual meaning of the straw-man fallacy and then disappear, please.
You are making assumptions about things I'm not even suggesting.

Quote:
The most relied upon, scientifically accurate trajectory-generator available shows an average 2-3" drop for any common commercial .45acp load, in any common pistol or revolver, zeroed at 25 yards, fired at 50. You call that misleading? You have a better calculator than they do? Show us.
Yeah and what something says on paper doesn't necessarily apply to real world results. Those results assume someone is absolutely perfect with the firearm. Those results are for the BEST possible scenario shot from the best possible marksmen.

Quote:
Again with your fallacious popular appeal to "everyone" on what is a matter of fact, not opinion.
I shoot with former police officers, former military, and with avid hunters. None of them would trust a .45 ACP at 50 yards. But then again, none of them are master marksmen with the pistol either.


Quote:
Fact is, decent 50-yard (and farther) groups with all kinds of handgun/cartridge combinations are rather boringly common, as a simple google image search will prove.
A 4" diameter group is possible for a master marksmen, using a 1911, but most people aren't going to hit anywhere close to that. Best I can do is a 15" group with my H&K .45 at 50 yards, but my 25 yard group is far better. With a Glock 19? I don't even try to hit anything at 50 yards.

So yeah, I'm saying I'd use a .22lr that I can shoot a 1" group with at 50 yards over a pistol where the best I can do is a 15" group at 50 yards. Make sense to you? Makes sense to me. Does that mean I should practice more with a .45 ACP, sure, but I know enough about where I stand as a marksmen to know which guns would get me the best results in a particular situation. And this is only if I had to choose between a .45 ACP pistol, or a .22lr shot from an actual rifle.


Quote:
Then blame yourself, instead of all guns and all ammo above your handicap.
Did I ever claim I was a master marksman with a .45ACP pistol? You assume an ammo type is a handicap, has nothing to do with the ammo type and more about the firearm that shoots that ammo type. Any well rounded marksmen is going to be less accurate with a pistol than revolvers or rifles.

And you never answered my question as to why I would have to re-sight my .300 WSM rifle in after changing ammo types at a distance of 300 yards? If drop is consistent with all ammo types, then I shouldn't have to do that. You haven't answered because you don't know. Having trouble using google to find it? You are just googling stuff up and posting it without any real experience in shooting firearms. Come back when you actually get some exp under your belt. Some exp outside of internet trolling.
 
Old September 15th, 2012 #85
Roy Wagahuski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
And you never answered my question as to why I would need to re-sight my .300 WSM rifle in after changing ammo types at a distance of 300 yards?
Because your reading comprehension sucks.
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Old September 16th, 2012 #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Wagahuski View Post
Because your reading comprehension sucks.
Another for the ignore list.
 
Old September 17th, 2012 #87
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Crow's problem is simple. My problem is there's no internet equivalent to kicking down his bedroom door and slapping some intellectual initiative into his oreo-stuffed cheeks.

A self-proclaimed experienced gunner who shows so much difficulty comprehending ballistic 'drag', among other facts, is either too lazy to learn or is a wannabe posing as a shooter, or both, and will be publicly exposed in short order.

Next?
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Old October 7th, 2012 #88
Roy Wagahuski
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Anyone who isn't lazy can 'tube up demonstrations of extreme-range stock handgun shooting, other than these below.


That the same glock scoped would have been hitting MOA, and probably sub-MOA from a rest, is not even debatable.


The point? People commonly confuse inaccurate shooting for defects in the gun, rather than imperfect aiming, as they alternately misconceive that the degree of a gun's accuracy is proportional to its barrel-length. The reality is the opposite on everything they believe they know.
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Old December 15th, 2015 #89
Mike d
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I used 22 long rifle on two hogs i only used 2 bullets one for each
They went down fast shook a time or two and that was it (pointing in front of the ear aiming at the eye on opposing side) works well but on the niggro if you have any doubts just shoot the eye ball aiming at the ear on the further side so as to be kind to him and put his ass to rest quick.
 
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