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Old November 10th, 2007 #41
Sean Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J. McAllister View Post
Avoid the SKS. AK all the way! Detachable mags are a big deal. And those detachable SKS mags are junk, all of them.
I don’t know where you people are getting your detachables but everyone I have ever used has functioned flawlessly and I have used up to the 50 rounders. I heard that some people have a problem with loading them properly or properly placing them in the gun.

Quote:
The Saiga is a good choice. They are known for being more accurate than most AKs. They have hammer-forged barrels, and are made by folks who really know the system.
Some Saiga’s have barrels twice as long as an AK so they should be more accurate. The magazines and other products cost 2-4 times as much as for an AK.

Quote:
You can modify them to look like conventional AKs, but the only truly necessary mod is the mag well fix. This needs to be done before you can use standard AK mags.
Modify something to look like the real thing for 3 times the price.

If I was going to dump the money it would take to set up a Saiga I would get a good American made gun that is 10 times the quality.
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Last edited by Sean Martin; November 10th, 2007 at 06:08 PM.
 
Old November 10th, 2007 #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin View Post
I just saw that they are releasing the Mosin Nagants again for $79.00 + tax. I saw about 100 of them for sale today down in the country. So you could throw that in there and have a full set including a big game/sniper rifle.

The Mossberg's were $99.00-139.00. So the 7.62x54, Mossberg, Makarov combo would be only $279 and you would have the rest to spend on an SKS. They are selling the Yugo SKS's for $79.00-100. So you could get 4 reliable guns that will do everything you need to handle any situation for under $400.
The Yugo SKS doesn't have a chrome lined barrel.
 
Old November 10th, 2007 #43
T.J. McAllister
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Quote:
I don’t know where you people are getting your detachables but everyone I have ever used has functioned flawlessly and I have used up to the 50 rounders. I heard that some people have a problem with loading them properly or properly placing them in the gun.
Even if you get lucky and find one that feeds properly in your rifle, they are still not durable. Even the infamous USGI M16 mags are better than SKS detachables.

Quote:
Some Saiga’s have barrels twice as long as an AK so they should be more accurate. The magazines and other products cost 2-4 times as much as for an AK.
There are no Saigas with barrels "twice as long as an AK". There is a 20" model. There's also a 16" model, which is the one to get (7.62x39 doesn't gain much out of longer barrels). The magazine problem can be solved by modifying the Saiga's mag well and mag catch so they will accept common AK mags.

Quote:
Modify something to look like the real thing for 3 times the price.
It doesn't need to "look like the real thing". A Saiga is a bare bones Kalashnikov (a genuine Kalashnikov in the truest sense of the word). All it needs to be functional is the mag well fix.

If you're a collector who wants a replica of an AK-103, then you will pay for the trigger relocation and the shorter gas tube, but the guy who mentioned the Saiga probably wants a tool, not a collector's piece. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:
If I was going to dump the money it would take to set up a Saiga I would get a good American made gun that is 10 times the quality.
A Saiga carbine in 7.62x39 will run from 200-300 dollars. The mag well mod will cost nothing (if you do it yourself) unless you're not mechanically inclined, and even then it'd be maybe 30-50 bucks if you have a gunsmith or machinist do it for you. So far, that's 250-350 into your rifle, which still beats the SKS price wise. SKSs are not the bargains they once were, and by the time you waste money buying aftermarket US mags, you will still have a clumsy weapon that feeds from inferior mags.

A Saiga carbine that has been modified to feed from standard AK mags is so much better than the SKS. The SKS, once again, is too long, heavy, and cumbersome for what it is. It's got nothing on a proper assault-type rifle, and it is inferior to a dedicated marksman-type rifle. They made sense when they were $69.99 in the 1990s, but they do not stack up against the AK and similar weapons.

LOL, you just got done ranting about how Warsaw pact weapons are so much better than "sub-quality" American guns (the "leftovers") and now you tell us that we should get American guns because they're "10 times the quality" of the Saiga?
 
Old November 10th, 2007 #44
Sean Martin
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You talk like a gun magazine of gun forum person, lots of information and all of it false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J. McAllister View Post
Even if you get lucky and find one that feeds properly in your rifle, they are still not durable. Even the infamous USGI M16 mags are better than SKS detachables.
The last one I shot was purchased in 1988 and has been on several SKS’s and still functions perfectly. I have shot several and never have had a problem. I just think you don’t know how to load them properly, insert them into the gun or properly remove all the parts to make the SKS accept them.

Quote:
There are no Saigas with barrels "twice as long as an AK". There is a 20" model. There's also a 16" model, which is the one to get (7.62x39 doesn't gain much out of longer barrels).
Figuratively speaking, they make one with either a 24 inch or 26 inch I forget which. I saw one a few months ago.

Quote:
The magazine problem can be solved by modifying the Saiga's mag well and mag catch so they will accept common AK mags.
Brilliant, someone who has to ask a question about guns isn’t going to be able to do a magazine modification. Also there is a strong chance of messing up the gun. Even if you don’t mess up the gun that mod will likely get you a decade in prison and a felony record.

You think it is legal and won’t get you a felony record, tell that to all the felons in prison. Guns are not something you want to start cutting on, Feds don’t need a real reason to snatch all your guns and put you in prison. A racist with a hacked up Russian gun is enough to spend life in prison. If you ever have to use the thing you are guaranteed a prison term unless you have some juicy info that puts someone else in prison.

Quote:
It doesn't need to "look like the real thing". A Saiga is a bare bones Kalashnikov (a genuine Kalashnikov in the truest sense of the word). All it needs to be functional is the mag well fix.
Why buy something you need to modify and hope for the best when you can buy the real thing for the same price.

Quote:
If you're a collector who wants a replica of an AK-103, then you will pay for the trigger relocation and the shorter gas tube, but the guy who mentioned the Saiga probably wants a tool, not a collector's piece. He can correct me if I'm wrong.
If he wants a tool he better get a hammer, he will be able to kill more people with it than a Saiga.

Quote:
A Saiga carbine in 7.62x39 will run from 200-300 dollars.
And they are only worth about $25. Sure you can sell them for more but they are all pure junk. Unless you are one of the people who can’t shoot tactical style weapons. I know several people who for some reason can’t handle pistol grips on a long gun.



Quote:
The SKS, once again, is too long, heavy, and cumbersome for what it is.
I saw an SKS carbine yesterday for $299, it was shorter than a yard stick and had a collapsible tapco stock with a 20 round detachable magazine. They make long SKS’s but they are rare these days.

Quote:
It's got nothing on a proper assault-type rifle, and it is inferior to a dedicated marksman-type rifle.
A dedicated marksman isn’t going to be on VNNF or any other forum asking questions. Sure an SKS is inferior to a $4,000 sniper rifle but that is not a comparison. For the buck it is in the top 3 best deals one can buy.

Quote:
LOL, you just got done ranting about how Warsaw pact weapons are so much better than "sub-quality" American guns (the "leftovers") and now you tell us that we should get American guns because they're "10 times the quality" of the Saiga?
If I am going to dump $600 in a gun worth only $25 I would buy a $600 American 223.

I have been around the block and know my stuff. I am not going to waste any more time debating you. It is pointless so don’t bother replying because I don’t care. But you will. Gun nuts are predictable, they can't accept that they are wrong.



I am not talking about you in particular but gun nuts are the whiniest people I have ever seen. Go to any gun forum tell some clown he is blatantly wrong and he will nearly cry then spam the forum with 50 consecutive posts collected from all over the Internet. I would figure gun people would have thicker skin, which is why I enjoy provoking them so much.






I would beware of anyone on a forum telling me to cut my gun to modify it to take something it wasn’t made to accept. That sounds like a Fed or entrapment. Before you cut anything off your gun aside from sites you need to consult the local and federal laws. It doesn’t matter who tells you it is legal, they won’t be the one paying your $10,000 fine or spending 10 years in prison. Edger Steele had an article on this subject where he said just that and he was 100% right.

A rule I would follow, if you are a novice then take no advice on gun mods. Buy it already modified that way it is legal. I read a story about a Kwap that spent some time in a California prison because he moved there with his modified SKS that was legal everywhere else in the country. It was in Backwoods home or some similar magazine.
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Last edited by Sean Martin; November 10th, 2007 at 08:24 PM.
 
Old November 10th, 2007 #45
T.J. McAllister
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I am not I a "gun nut". I just want to make sure that the readers of this forum get accurate information. I have some knowledge in this field, so I am just sharing it.

What you are saying is false. There are perfectly legal ways to modify the Saiga carbines. There are tutorials available on how to do it, and if one doesn't feel like learning, he can get the mods done for a small fee.

You are spreading information that is not true. Stop it.
 
Old November 10th, 2007 #46
Sean Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J. McAllister View Post
There are perfectly legal ways to modify the Saiga carbines.
Since this involves legality I will interject. Yes there are perfectly legal ways of modifying a gun. Hacking up the mag well isnít the best way legal or not. You can say it is legal, I can say it is legal but it wonít keep some poor sap out of Federal prison if he tries it. It also may not keep some poor sap from ruining a gun that should have been an AK in the first place instead of an AK wannabe.

I am not saying what is legal and what isnít, I am just issuing a warning to all would be gun hackers that donít take the word of anyone online myself included on the legality of grinding on a gun. Edger Steele has an excellent article (and recent as well) on this very subject. If you or anyone else chop up a gun and get hauled into Federal court I wonít show up to defend you and I am sure no one else on this or any other forum will either.

Stay safe and stay legal, donít put things where they donít belong. This applies to your body as well as guns.
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Old May 10th, 2013 #47
Roy Wagahuski
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By going plastic you eliminate about 5 pounds of dead weight that was made from poor grade warped Chinese wood in the first place.

You can tell a huge difference sanding an SKS wooden stock and sanding a Remington or whatever wooden stock.
No kidding. Norinco stocks gotta be some local softwood, to split in half from a short fall on the kitchen floor.

I bought the ATI monte carlo stock and couldn't feel more satisfied.
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Old May 10th, 2013 #48
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So many technical inaccuracies contained in this thread I regret bumping it...
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Old May 16th, 2013 #49
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I've been to about a dozen gun shows, and 95% of these people aren't looking to give anyone a good deal on a gun. I'm talking about them asking for 95%-100% of full retail price of a brand new one for a gun that is heavily used and not in top condition. Maybe its just gun shows in my area?

Going to a gun show might net you that rare, or hard to find gun you've been looking for but you're gonna have to pay full retail for it.

The only gun I ever bought from a gun show was a Browing over and under 410 gauge/.22lr, and paid $100 for it. The guy wanted $150 initially.
 
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