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Old August 14th, 2007 #1
6KILLER
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Default *The SKS Rifle: Tales from beyond the gun show !!!*

The SKS rifle is a simple gas operated auto loader with some very strong attributes in it’s favor. For all it’s glory and simplicity few rifles have been surrounded by more confusion than the humble SKS. I have fired both Russian and Chinese versions and am very well versed in it’s use and maintenance. Let me say that I am a gun nut, I love guns, shooting, working on them, and anything related to shooting or working with or on guns. Having stated that it should be obvious that I am not a “the sks is the best rifle bar none” kind of guy but I will say that: A) For the money spent and knowledge required to own and become competent with one it is the best overall value. B) It is battle tested (the wise reader will never overlook this quality when choosing any firearm for survival purposes). C) Parts and amo are everywhere and cheap compared to many of it’s competitors. D) It is a tough son of a bitch in field E) you can go buy an SKS, some simple cleaning supplys, a bag of stripper clips, and a thousand rounds of quality FMJ amo for the same amount or less than the cheapest AK/Mack-90 type rifle on the market (that takes hi-cap. Mags). Remember that an SKS in the hand (or trunk or closet for that matter) is better than a Fal/L1A1, G3 or full auto H&K MP5 in fantasy land.(and yes- I have fired all of the above so I CAN say that and mean it)
That brings us to the most important thing you can learn about the SKS….Leave it alone! There are dozens of accessories available for an SKS but most do nothing to improve the performance of the weapon and some can really screw you up if you are not careful. I have seen so many go out and get a good SKS and then spend money left and right: a scope mount here (now it’s a sniper rifle), a folding stock there (hey what do you mean it’s not legal) and of course the biggest scam the hi-cap. magazines. In a word, save your money-that is the main reason to own a SKS over an AK or FAL ect. ect. None of the Hellfire type gadgets are worth a damn or they would be illegal, some hi capacity mags are better than others but none are as reliable as the stock fixed 10 round magazine. Don’t even think about a full auto conversion (unless you really like concrete walls and steel bars) the SKS is best left in semi auto and you don’t need full auto anyway. If you think you need full auto then you need more time at the range or maybe trade in on a shotgun if your just that bad. The SKS is reasonably accurate but will never be a sniper grade rifle and is not designed for use with a scope. Don’t waste your time and money (by the time you get a scope zeroed in TEOTWAWKI will already have come and gone and then it will just shift anyway). Even if you do get it stable enough you will have traded in quick target acquisition for a crappy scope that will get you killed when you can’t get that stripper clip out of the way fast enough anymore. Yes,the thirty round detachable mags do make it look ten times better and I have several (mostly for fun...there is just no better setup to shoot stacks of #10 cans and keep them rolling down range) The twenty round fixed will be your next stop on the “how much money can I waste” express. With some minor filing mine now works and no you can’t reliably get two stripper clips loaded in a timely manner (one stripper clip will load fine). On the up side it is made out of crappy pot metal! (it now resides in the bottom of my closet-somewhere!!) The 75 round drum (I don’t even want to talk about it), DO NOT even think about wasting that much money. Do we see a trend developing yet???
Repeat this ten times out loud before you go to the next gun show and buy some stuff you really need instead (ammo anyone?):My SKS is a solid semi-auto battle rifle with a ten round fixed magazine, it uses stripper clips, when I pull the trigger it goes “BANG”- that is the purpose for which it was designed. It is NOT a poor man’s AK-47 anymore than it is a sniper rifle. I will not waste my next two paychecks making it look like either. I will leave it the way it was designed to function and move on with my life. Now that we have settled that issue, let me close with the following argument. You may own several firearms, many of which will seem better than the SKS in various aspects of their performance BUT everyone can afford a decent SKS and learn how to shoot it. The ammo is as cheap as it gets and when the sh*t hits the fan- it is comforting to know that everyone on your team has parts and amo that will work in your gun. Personally, I REALLY like the FN/FAL. I’m a big guy and the larger powerful rifle is just tailor made to my hands. I love the Fal so much that the odds I’m going to abuse the hell out of one training and screwing around in the field are not very big. The SKS is a junk yard dog. Drop it, scratch it, see how much crud it can digest and still fire, it likes it (well…sort of) the expirience you can get because you are not afraid to hurt it are worth far more than the rifle it self. Smaller framed team mates usually find it comfortable and with the addition of the $5-$10 rubber but pad/spacer so do I (at 6’4” and over 250lbs. with a large frame I’d say that’s versatile). Go get one, buy a thousand rounds for it, shoot the hell out of it, clean it up really good and stick it in the closet you may be very glad you did one day -even if you can afford something better (hey, there is nothing wrong with the AK/Mack90). You can never have too many good cheap rifles that eat up good cheap amo. Hey one day you may want to cache something somewhere for undisclosed reasons (vague enough??). So just keep this in mind “friends don’t let friends waste money” leave the plastic crap at the table and and move down to the next table and buy some more amo, the life you save may be your own !! P.S. I still take my SKS hunting with me once in a while if it's one of those cold rainy "I'm nuts for going out in this" kind of weekends...it serves as a fine little brush carbine in the deer woods and is one of the few semi-auto rifles that doesn't fear Alabama mud!!!-(if you've ever delt with that un-godly muck you know how impressive a feat that is!!!-

JonBot007
 
Old August 14th, 2007 #2
Sean Martin
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I wouldn’t want an SKS unless it was fully customized. There is so much you can do with one. If you can make a gun into a sniper rifle, assault rifle, folding stock, and various other things with nothing more than some aftermarket parts and a screwdriver, then why carry around a big bulky wood stock.

By going plastic you eliminate about 5 pounds of dead weight that was made from poor grade warped Chinese wood in the first place.

You can tell a huge difference sanding an SKS wooden stock and sanding a Remington or whatever wooden stock.
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Old August 14th, 2007 #3
-JC
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Default On the other hand

Heavier stocks absorb more recoil, not that 7.62 x 39 is that rough but accuracy is more important than how many rounds you can put down range unless you are mounting an assault. Accuracy is about not flinching as much as anything else. It is a peasant rifle and that is what our author is advocating-- that every man be armed with something he can handle.

Because I am a knuckle-dragger, I too like rubber recoil pads on everything, even .22s. I also like iron sights for durability and economy.

Even at 230 pounds with some rifle experience, I like the 7.62 x 54 Mosin Nagant bolt gun with the walnut stock, which is heavier than cheaper wood found on so many. Again, accuracy due to more mass, less felt recoil, and therefore better control. That in a serious rifle round. The serious shooters-- the VC snipers-- in Vietnam used Mosins. For everyone else there were the SKSs and AKs.

Perhaps the most important thing about these guns is that you can afford to have one in the trunk of your car or behind the pickup seat and your world isn't going to come to an end if someone breaks-in. Just yesterday, I took a picture of a rear window broken-out of an SUV at a trailhead; my first thought was a bear but there was an untouched ice chest just behind the window. With open borders expect car clouting (such break-ins) and home burglaries to become more and more common.
 
Old August 15th, 2007 #4
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After 10 hours that extra 5 pounds will make a difference. 5 pounds of ak or 22 ammo would change a lot of stuff. Think about how many rounds you can carry by eliminating that bulky wooden stock. Also Chinese stocks do not make a gun accurate, since they are not made from good wood.

Another thing is a wooden stock is less accurate on any gun. Here is the reason, Consistency equals accuracy. Wooden stocks are not consistent. If the weather changes 10 degrees your accuracy suffers. Wooden stocks swell and warp in weather changes and with humidity they are terrible.

This is why you don’t see wood on a $4,000 sniper rifle. When is the last time you have seen a Steyr with wooden furniture? I have seen them but they are old and they make upgrades in the form of plastic.

I switched a stock on a Marlin competition rifle yesterday. It was heavy and wooden, I switched it to a plastic dragunov style stock. It cut about 4 pounds off the weight, improved the feel and it shot a 1/8th inch better pattern. I fitted it with a fiberforce stock.


The last wooden SKS stock I held, I changed it and trashed the old stock as it was so flimsy it broke taking it off and I couldn’t sand it and fix it because the wood was such a poor grade.

About changing stocks, I recommend Tapco of course. However Ramline makes a good folding stock if you have long arms.

I would stay away from a fiberforce stock for the SKS, I was offered one for $5.00 once and I noticed it had so many flaws I wouldn’t take it at that price. They are not good for the SKS.

I would put one on a Mossberg or Marlin but not an SKS. Even though they fold and have a shorter stock, the are to soft and weak for an SKS.


EDIT:

For long range shooting I would use the Fiberforce Monte Carlo (if you like classic rifles) or the Dragunov style (if you like tactical). The one I had was a folding and I wouldn’t recommend them for anything.




About the Mosin. The last time I shot a Mosin it was a Carbine version (M44) and it had about 16 pounds of stock. The gun was short but like carrying an AR-15 and an AK-47.

It was LOUD, I had earplugs and hearing muffs and I still could only stand 3 shots. The Carbine is a world shaker.
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Last edited by Sean Martin; August 15th, 2007 at 12:11 AM.
 
Old August 15th, 2007 #5
William Robert
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Default Check this baby out.

http://navlog.org/q_car.wmv
 
Old August 15th, 2007 #6
6KILLER
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If your a fan of the M134D here's more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkNH7BOA7-Q
 
Old August 15th, 2007 #7
notafanofthejooman
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What brand ammo do you guys recommend for the SKS? Source/supplier? Also, what survivalist book would you recommend? I'm getting ready.
 
Old August 15th, 2007 #8
Sean Martin
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Cheapest from the cheapest supplier. I have provided some good links. Wolf is usually the cheapest. In an SKS you can shoot all types of ammo. If you had an AR-15 I wouldn’t recommend anything less than the good stuff.

Got to wwwsurvivalplus.com, or google Kurt Saxon and buy some of his books. A subscription to “Shotgun News” Backwoods home and Mother Earth News will give you a lot of good information on not only survival but how to profit until the crash from preparing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by notafanofthejooman View Post
What brand ammo do you guys recommend for the SKS? Source/supplier? Also, what survivalist book would you recommend? I'm getting ready.
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Old August 15th, 2007 #9
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www.Cheaperthandirt.com is good for ammo, parts and more. Worth a look at least.

Last edited by TwistedCross; August 15th, 2007 at 01:15 PM.
 
Old August 15th, 2007 #10
T.J. McAllister
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The SKS is a poor choice for a self-defense weapon. There are much better options out there for those looking for an inexpensive carbine. They are way too heavy, bulky, long, and clumsy for what they are- a short range, intermediate-caliber carbine.

The M1 Carbine would be a much better option. Even a Mini-14 would be a better choice.
 
Old August 15th, 2007 #11
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There are a great deal of modifications to the SKS, and with a folding stock and short barrel the SKS is not a long gun.

For someone with a $200 or under budget the SKS is the best choice to get a carbine with several rounds of ammo. If I were going to spend more than $200 I wouldn’t get an M-1 or Mini, I would go for the gusto and get an AK or an FAL in .308 caliber.

For $300 you can get an automatic Saiga in the 30-06 caliber. Or you for $500 you can get a M-1 Garande in the 30.06 caliber.


The M-1 carbine is a good weapon but not as durable as the SKS or AK. It also costs 3 times as much money. A rock bottom priced M-1 Carbine is $300, while an SKS can be bought for as little as $75.

The M-1 Carbine costs about $15 for 50 rounds while the SKS costs about $12 for 60 rounds. If it wasn’t for the war in Iraq SKS rounds would only be about $5.00 for 60.

The M-1 doesn’t pack the punch as an SKS either. Now don’t get me wrong I am not a huge fan of either but both are good weapons and both have uses.

The Mini-14 is not a durable gun. There are a lot of after market additions but a basic Mini-14 costs around $500. Where you can get at least 5 or more SKS’s for that price. To put $500 in an SKS you can get several stocks and additions. Then you can go buy a thousand round of ammo. Where you would have just a mini-14 with no ammo or nothing for $500.

Right now 223 is about the same as SKS ammo, but the SKS has more punch. It is not as accurate but has about twice the knockdown power.

If I was going to dump $500 I would just spend a couple hundred more and get an AR.


Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J. McAllister View Post
The SKS is a poor choice for a self-defense weapon. There are much better options out there for those looking for an inexpensive carbine. They are way too heavy, bulky, long, and clumsy for what they are- a short range, intermediate-caliber carbine.

The M1 Carbine would be a much better option. Even a Mini-14 would be a better choice.
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Old August 17th, 2007 #12
-JC
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Default Accuracy and economy

America would seem to have an unlimited budget for her troops and her children. Ergo the high tech battle weapon variants seen on the battlefield since WWII, not to mention suburbanite yuppie toys from SUVs to snow skis.

The M-1 Garand was a tremendous improvement innovation because it was a dependable autoloader and utilized the relatively powerful 30-06. The Mini-14 and the Mini-30 are based on the Garand and are relatively rugged and dependable compared with sporting autoloaders.

A rifleman I knew once commented, "Why spend the money for a Mini-30 when you can buy an SKS that shoots the same round as well?" He owned a Mini-14 however because it was economical compared to an M-16 and with it he could put all his rounds in a man-sized target at 200 yards-- all the accuracy most of us will ever need outside of our dreams. One needs to decide whether one wants a battle rifle or a super match grade sniper rifle and under what conditions one will operate. White camo gear, socks made of wet suit material, and shooting mittens may be the most important investment for the North Woods winter.

One does not employ a .460 Weatherby to hunt deer in the Pennsylvania woods. For the obsession of stalking rhino one worries less about the weight (or cost) than the instant pointability, dependability, and potency of the medicine. Some thoughtful Americans in Vietnam who went on to become veterans preferred AKs for their dependability and because they believed in the round for short range accuracy n dense cover. Like many in metropolitan, sub-urban, or rural areas, you are likely most concerned repelling a "bear" or other subhuman busting through a door that opens inward.

Maybe you think you will one day be afield in the increasingly might-makes-right war zone that is America fighting enemies foreign and/or domestic. Have you tried a four-day backpacking trip with the gear you think you'll carry including the ammunition without the rifle? Played paintball? Without infantry experience, most survivalists of the "I can't wait until the shooting starts" variety, in my experience, are armchair adventurers. You want to contemplate practical horsepower for such scenarios? Read Ragnar Benson on home-brew light field morters.

It goes without saying that economy is becoming an increasingly important factor in armament. Everyone has opinions about what's best. What matters is what is battle-proven, available, and affordable which, I suppose, are the SKS and the Mosin. A friend recently bought a Mosin, the full-length rifle, for $79 and we found it shot acceptably out to 600 yards, which was all we increasingly blind old guys tried.

While superior in at least one regard to the 30-30, which I've always liked because you can buy ammo at the 7-11 anywhere, its politically correct in the gun rack from Mississippi to Minnesota, and has a history of getting the job done, the 7.62 x 39 remains a pop gun round compared to a .458 Win-mag. So, what is one hunting, where is one hunting, and how accurate must one necessarily be, given the constraints of one's budget, anatomy, central nervous system, eyesight, and tendency to flinch?

My advice to novices would be to join a gun club preferably in a rural area and listen to those with experience, the kind of experience that matters given what you are contemplating but not necessarily after watching the Bourne Ultimatum.

Yes, you may have to carry a weapon all day for several days. You may not. Gun weight is a good thing under certain circumstances. I prefer a long barrel and some helt to a mountain rifle because I don't walk in to shoot and drag home sheep.

You may just want something to keep behind the pickup seat or behind your bedroom door. You may want long-term availability of ammunition or at least brass which you can reload with bullets you cast yourself. There are all questions that likely won't occur to you until you have some experience.

Aggressive, "high-testosterone" men (if you ask them) enjoy pontificating on arts requiring first basic skill, then practice, and finally, for excellence, good genetics. Often the most opinionated are the least skilled. My advice, for what its worth, whether one is talking about snow skiing or practical pistol shooting (PPC) is lto earn the basics, hang out with those long on experience and short on ego, be realistic about your limitations-- everybody has 'em, don't start out with high-priced equipment, and be willing to sell or give-away what you have and get something more appropriate. Snow shoes may make more sense than Nordic racing skis. A rusty, yard sale 10-22, an SKS, and a Mosin, with enough ammo to see you through hard times, cover a multitude of North American situations, can be mastered relatively easily, and won't break your heart or budget if they are seized or otherwise stolen and must be replaced.

You might find it makes more sense to own several of the same kind in case friends drop by. You might have several abodes, vehicles, caches. You might be an investor in precious metals such as lead, brass, and blue steel.

Learn what "match grade" means and consider that if you will likely need to make thousand-yard shots or anticipate sniping as a second career. And whether you think a match grade piece is a smart investment until you know whether you have what it takes to hit the broad side of a barn. Repeat the mantra "consider your limitations." Because skiing is expensive, the slopes are always covered with yuppies sporting the latest gear and this year's model of high tech ski and the roads to the slopes are a minefield of of "drivers" who don't understand the simplest concept of stopping distance on even dry roads. Few ski to the limits of their equipment before they upgrade. Better I think to learn to shoot, shoot a lot for awhile to know your equipment inside-out, and train until you are automatic, and be able to replace what you have without undue emotion, submitting a yellow sheet, and spending a fortune.

Have fun learning and laugh at yourself. A sense of humor will get you further in terms of health and longevity than which rifle you choose. Seriously considering a main battle rifle or, especially, a sniper weapon is grim duty. Select with your head rather than your heart (Compare it to car-buying). And keep your opinion of yourself and the opinions of others in perspective. Above all MASTER the basics; my high school typing teacher probably saved me more time and energy in my life by helping me get to 75 WPM on a 60's-era manual typewriter than any other human being except my dad. If you did not start out with a lot of time in the woods as a kid with a single shot .22, you are at a disadvantage some of which may be overcome. Learn to make every shot count, concentrate on quality rather than the volume you can put downrange, carry with you, and stockpile.

Developing character involves controlling yourself in all ways. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes. Hold. Hold. Hold.

There is an economy to life that sorts out one's priorities. Master yourself and basic skills and what you really need will come. Watch the first, best five minutes of Enter the Dragon. If you are just beginning to understand firearms, pick up an old reloading manual and read some history, look at the tables, and understand sighting-in: I like those published by Joyce Hornady in the 70s: Powders have changed but the concepts remain the same. Unless you are a sportsman, avoid gun magazines which, like Motor Trend is to the auto industry, are whoring rags selling first magazines, then the latest guns, and finally distract.
 
Old August 17th, 2007 #13
Sean Martin
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One can buy an SKS with a grenade launcher for $79 compared to $500 for a mini-30. For someone like me a mini-14 would be a bad investment because I like the AR/AK style stocks and grips. I would be dumping $500 on a gun that I would have to do a couple hundred dollars worth of modifications to. For someone who likes traditional rifle stocks I can see where the Mini would be good.

Like the mini (and ruger 10/22) there are hundreds if not thousands of after market add ons for the SKS. I think the factor here is what a person likes and budget. For me the SKS with a $99 dollar after market stock and a $20 detachable mag is a fine weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -JC View Post
A rifleman I knew once commented, "Why spend the money for a Mini-30 when you can buy an SKS that shoots the same round as well?" He owned a Mini-14 however because it was economical compared to an M-16 and with it he could put all his rounds in a man-sized target at 200 yards-- all the accuracy most of us will ever need outside of our dreams. One needs to decide whether one wants a battle rifle or a super match grade sniper rifle and under what conditions one will operate. White camo gear, socks made of wet suit material, and shooting mittens may be the most important investment for the North Woods winter.
You know it is funny you mentioned bear. A couple weeks ago as we were driving home about midnight, we saw a bear crossing the road. There is a couple mile stretch of road with no houses or anything on it. It looked like it only weighed about 400 pounds and wasn’t full grown. However I know it didn’t jump out of an airplane to get here so there must be more of them.

That may be a large factor in survival in these parts.

Quote:
Like many in metropolitan, sub-urban, or rural areas, you are likely most concerned repelling a "bear" or other subhuman busting through a door that opens inward.
I would be real careful with his books, he like many others gives a lot of bad information. But an interesting point is that an improvised explosive is much more dangerous than a regular gun. What take out more tanks in Iraq? AK’s or IED’s?

Quote:
Read Ragnar Benson on home-brew light field morters.
Here you go. $79 will do just about all a person who doesn’t have a gold medal hanging off his neck for sharp shooting needs. Unless a person is going to get into serious competition a Mosin or a couple hundred dollar Remington from Wal-Mart will do about all we will never need.

If someone needs to ask a question about a long-range rifle they don’t need a $4,000 Steyr. Actually it is getting more common for them to be around $5,000 now. Compare a shot group to a $79 mosin and I don’t see the extra money.
Quote:
A friend recently bought a Mosin, the full-length rifle, for $79 and we found it shot acceptably out to 600 yards, which was all we increasingly blind old guys tried.
But the thing about Mosin ammo is that 1,000 rounds of it can be ordered for $150-200. So for under $250 a person can get a dependable, accurate long-range rifle with $1,000 rounds of ammo. A thousand rounds of 7.62x54 goes a lot farther than a thousand rounds of 7.62x39. It takes a lot longer to cycle the bolt through 5 rounds than it does to run 100 rounds through a drum in a semi-auto.

A thousand rounds of Mosin ammo could very well last a decade or longer of average shooting.
Quote:
While superior in at least one regard to the 30-30, which I've always liked because you can buy ammo at the 7-11 anywhere, its politically correct in the gun rack from Mississippi to Minnesota,
The only bad thing is there are to many gun nuts that think a person needs a bazooka to hunt quail.
Quote:
My advice to novices would be to join a gun club preferably in a rural area and listen to those with experience, the kind of experience that matters given what you are contemplating but not necessarily after watching the Bourne Ultimatum.
The SKS with a folding stock could be the gun, or a collapsible stock.
Quote:
You may just want something to keep behind the pickup seat or behind your bedroom door. You may want long-term availability of ammunition or at least brass which you can reload with bullets you cast yourself. There are all questions that likely won't occur to you until you have some experience.
I have noticed that they are nothing more than wish lists for high priced junk. Like an ad I saw last week. $300 for a light to fit on a gun. The light actually had a plastic case. I can purchase a more durable and brighter (garrety) light at Wal-Mart for $12. Christmas before last and use it every time I go outside after dark and have never changed batteries. Also it uses AAA instead of $5.00 watch batteries.

Back to the $300 deal. The light fit on a S&W sig. Those guns only go for $299. What kind of clown would put a $300 flashlight on a $299 gun?

That is the problem with gun magazines and gun nuts.
Quote:
Unless you are a sportsman, avoid gun magazines which, like Motor Trend is to the auto industry, are whoring rags selling first magazines, then the latest guns, and finally distract.
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Old August 18th, 2007 #14
Jesse Cheney
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Default Gun Ignorance

What advice would an experienced gun "lover" have for a completely ignorant person ,such as myself, when it comes to purchasing an assault rifle, shot gun, pistol when they can only spend $300 or less on one of any three firearms? I find that when I read about topics, I can get several opinions, that all sound good,but opposed each other. So much information and opposing views on a subject makes a person just kind of give up and just pick something in the hopes that they didn't screw themselves.
 
Old August 18th, 2007 #15
Sean Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Cheney View Post
What advice would an experienced gun "lover" have for a completely ignorant person ,such as myself, when it comes to purchasing an assault rifle, shot gun, pistol when they can only spend $300 or less on one of any three firearms? I find that when I read about topics, I can get several opinions, that all sound good,but opposed each other. So much information and opposing views on a subject makes a person just kind of give up and just pick something in the hopes that they didn't screw themselves.

This information is provided you live in a place where these guns are legal.

For under $300 each you can get an SKS and purchase a 30-50 round detachable magazine. If you have any problems installing the mag, the Internet has all sorts of information on how to take an SKS down. An SKS with at detachable magazine, folding stock and all shouldn’t cost more than $250.

Mossberg makes a good shotgun for under $200. Reliable and accurate. A lot of time you can get a used Mossberg pump for $100. Take it to a gunsmith and have the barrel cut down to 20 inches and install a screw in choke. This way with the turn of a choke you can shoot full choke (tight pattern) or open bore for slugs and 00 buckshot.

Smith and Wesson makes a good pistol in the S&W Sig which is nothing more than a Glock knock off. These can be bought for $300-350. I usally don't like S&W but that is a really nice gun for the money.

You may go over budget on the last one but that is the cheapest pistol I know of that would be a good carry gun and still pack some power.

These guns may not be the best but they are the best bang for the under $300 buck.

BTW stay away from Smith and Wesson Shotguns. I see them in the Pawn Shops from time to time for $200. I was duped into buying one once, they are actually made by a contractor for S&W. They are made extremely cheap and have several design flaws.



You should also consider getting a Marlin or similar 22 LR. Ammo is cheap and you can buy a thousand rounds for under $20. It is good for target practice, hunting small game and many other uses. They usally run around $99.
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Doppelhaken, Draco, Richard H, ToddinFl, Augustus Sutter, Chain, Subrosa, Jarl, White Will, whose next?
 
Old August 28th, 2007 #16
-JC
Doesn't suffer fools well
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,740
-JC
Default Advice for the poor wanting firearms

That would include me. Get a rifle rather than a shotgun unless you live in multi-family housing and then use light shot. Shotguns are for the birds and for cat burglars when you don't want to shoot through two layers of drywall.

There is nothing wrong with a light rifle, e.g., the 30-30. Ever shot a .460 Weatherby? Most of you won't want to shoot it again. And therefore you will flinch. I can personally guarantee you that you can kill grizley bear and moose with a 30-30. And you can carry it in a gun rack in the rear window of a pickup in many jurisdictions without it being a Homeland Security magnet.

For years, I hand-loaded the 7mm Remington and the .338 Win Mag for accuracy and always fell back on the saddle gun because it was more pleasant to shoot and did the job at the close range I almost always reached before firing. Light "mountain rifles" in heavy calibers and belted magnums are not pleasant to shoot and are for specialty missions, e.g., elk at Dall sheep, cape buffalo, ETC., at distance. If it is too heavy and too unpleasant, you won't want to carry it and shoot it day-in-and-day-out.

Get a sling you like, learn to use it (I prefer "African carry") and, if you need extra stock length, fit a rubber recoil pad. Many military rifles are built for the average user. I'm a tall, knuckle dragger and I like a recoil pad on a Winchester model 94 and the SKS-- the only accessory other than a flash hider I would recommend for that piece.

A second (metal) gunrack of the same design can be screwed to the cab behind the seat for leaving your car parked, for heavy weapons, or for extras in case friends drop by.

Get something that shoots the coin of the realm. A 30-30 lever action is rather politically-correct and ammo is everywhere, as is .223, .308, 30-06, as are 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 54 in some areas. You may want to look around your closest town and see what you can buy everywhere and then start buying some while it is available. Guns are no good without ammo. Own surplus ammo cans and learn about silica gel (not the LITTLE pillows that come in pill bottles). Stock LPS-3. Read Uncle Ragnar on caching.

For a handgun, get a revolver and an industrial-strength revolver. If you need to ask why a revolver then I don't care what you buy. If you need stopping power get at least a .38 special.

Own a Ruger 10-22 and a .22 revolver.

Get cleaning supplies, a minimum parts supply, and don't start modifying your weapons until you understand them. Detachable mags for SKS rifles, for example, are neither necessary, particularly dependable, nor recommended. Ever try to shoot prone (laying-down) with a 30-round clip? A 20-round isn't bad and ten-round stripper clips were used by the winners in the Vietnam war. So, if your wettest dreams you think to mount a close-quarter assault, here's a piece of advice: Don't. For everyone else there are submachine guns and short shotguns with heavy pellets.
 
Old August 28th, 2007 #17
Sean Martin
......
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,397
Sean Martin
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Re:JC

I agree with most of what you said. I like the no nonsense approach to your post. There are two points I would like to address or question.

Ragnar Benson has been read and all of his tactics can easily be countered. Just about everything Ragnar tells people to do to hide weapons is known by ZOG and easily overcome.

The second thing is about the detachable mag for the SKS. I have never known of one, never known of someone who has owned one and have never had one malfunction one single time. I am just curious in your experience what made them unreliable? For an add on a novice can install a detachable magazine in about 5 minutes using only a screwdriver.

If you don’t like them which I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. There is an option, they make a 20 round fixed magazine for the SKS. I saw a bunch in 1995 for $10 each. I haven’t looked for them since, so I don’t know if they are common but they are made.

One of the things about the fixed SKS mag is you can carry 200 rounds in stripper clips which just pop down in the gun and load in about 2 seconds. Right now the Viet Cong SKS stripper clip pouches (holds 200 rounds) can be bought very cheap. The great thing is that you can wear 2 at once and they are not awkward or heavy. After about 5 minutes you forget you have them on.
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Doppelhaken, Draco, Richard H, ToddinFl, Augustus Sutter, Chain, Subrosa, Jarl, White Will, whose next?
 
Old August 30th, 2007 #18
-JC
Doesn't suffer fools well
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,740
-JC
Default I had some Cheaper than Dirt detachable mags

They don't just jam in easily like in the movies. Neither do almost all non-Ruger mags for Minis. You have to try them when you are in a panic mode and reliability is absolutely everything. A main battle rifle is likely all you have and it has to be as malfunction-proof as you can make it. So, hey, if your gear works, who am I to say it doesn't. That has simply been my experience.

Believe it or not, the issue usually is not how many rounds you can put downrange but rather the accuracy and dependability of your fire. When I was a boy, Boy's Life magazine was de rigeur for budding woodsmen. I still enjoy illustrations that remind me of the drawings in the Handbook for Boys and have a copy of Shelters, Shacks, and Shanties on the bathroom window sill. The habits you acquire in your youth are not only pleasant memories but stand you in good stead for a lifetime. I learned to shoot with a single shot .22 and recommend it and learning practical woodcraft rather than relying on nylon, aluminum, and goose down.

One of the most difficult things I ever tried to do for a season was to get people to test their gear under simulated conditions. Hot weather backpacking trips carrying everything they needed for four days and three nights. Most people simply can't "get into that." Especially in heat and humidity and the requirements for water-- either carried or purified on the fly, with insects, and carrying a battle rifle and ammo. Most aren't interested in such experiences without weapons. And that's not to even bring up the subject of winter camping in the Northwoods, building snowcaves, traveling on snowshoes and skiis, canoeing, getting wet and having to get dry, etc. There is so much more to consider than simply firearms that one wants not to have to give an inordinate amount of thought to them. The old ways are often best for a reason.

This is meant to encourage rather than belittle the thoughts of those drawn to such threads. Armchair adventure is a wonderful activity for someone my age and it is temping to be carried away by it at any age. However one must get out and do. Set up a range. Go out and live in it. And remember you won't have a deuce and a half with a trailer hauling ammo, food, water, and other necessities meeting you down the road for resupply. You may be on your own someday.
 
Old October 25th, 2007 #19
6KILLER
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Default

SKS Rifle & SKS Chest Pouch
 
Old October 25th, 2007 #20
6KILLER
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Default Modernized SKS

 
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